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Re: natural farming in Mexico

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  • Bart
    Hello Miguel, thank you very much for responding, it s always very warming to encounter companeros walking more or less the same road... We also experienced
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 16, 2007
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      Hello Miguel,

      thank you very much for responding, it's always very warming to
      encounter companeros walking more or less the same road...

      We also experienced the need for having spiritual and practical
      companeros closeby, and we also have thought about some kind of
      community of
      natural farmers, but partly because of some
      experiences we have had with communities or intended
      communities, and partly because of more
      philosophical/spiritual reasons, we don't believe a
      community project is viable or necessary. The only
      community that works, we think, is a religious temple,
      led by an authentic spiritual leader. Otherwise we think a
      village-like organisation is just right, close enough to help and
      share things but not too close to disturb. Or even just living like
      good neighbours close to an existing village - we're not trying to run
      away from "civilization", just trying to live an honest, meaningful
      life without harming anyone or any living thing...

      The only people we met who were interested in setting up a community,
      were people who had already tried to live in existing communities, but
      failed because they couldn't harmonize with the others and needed
      their OWN community with their OWN rules THEY liked - rather funny,
      no, different people living alone on their huge piece of land waiting
      for someone who would accept to live with them following the rules
      they invented and they liked best...

      But maybe you mean by community just being
      geographically close, like neighbours, organizing
      some of the activities together, learning from each other's
      experiences and knowledge, keeping an eye on
      each other's children, and on the farm when someone
      has to leave for a while - this would interest us
      greatly.

      When we went to Mexico, we went with the idea of
      integrating us in a small village, thinking people
      over there would have some living spiritual tradition
      and some ancestral farming knowledge. Sadly, both
      ideas are false (at least in the places where we
      were), materialism all over and pesticides also. Our
      neighbours were always nice and rather helpful people
      once the ice was broken, but not the kind we wanted to
      let our children go to play with a lot (watching TV,
      eating garbage, being yelled at and watching the dog
      get kicked at, and in case of medical problems a quick
      injection of some horse-remedy), nor could they begin
      to understand what and why we were trying to do with
      our lives.

      So as we see it, the ideal would be living in or
      around a "normal" small village somewhere in
      the mountains, but with a few natural farmers families
      close by, living like neighbours and, if it comes out
      that way, friends (or family when the children mary ;)
      ). And this at a reasonable distance from a zen
      practice center (4-5 hours still would be
      reasonable)...

      We're not even really fixed on Mexico, could be any
      country. But inside of Europe we would first have to
      work 30 years to pay off the land and house, and
      regulations are really strangling, we know of a lot of
      bad stories by organic growers, trials, hate, etc.. And outside Europe
      the only country to let us in easily is Mexico, because my wife
      is Mexican...

      Looking forward to hearing from you again... (Maybe we should start
      another topic if it would be of interest to the others, or go off-list...)
      If anyone else on this list has experiences, good or bad, with natural
      farming communities, please join in...

      greetings,
      Bart
    • torskel87
      Hi Bart I completely agree with you in relation to the way of doing a community, I lived for two years in a community in Venezuela´s Gran Sabana where we were
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 17, 2007
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        Hi Bart
        I completely agree with you in relation to the way of doing a
        community, I lived for two years in a community in Venezuela´s Gran
        Sabana where we were trying to be self sufficient with permaculture
        and bio dynamic methods, but it didn´t work at all, as 15 people
        lived together in the same place, eveything was diagreement and life
        was out of harmony, with this experience never I would try to do a
        community like that, I think that the best community is the community
        with nature and with the family, and in relation to the people is fine
        like the way that people used to live before here in the Andes,
        communities were a group of families gathered in one place, every
        family lived independiently working in their lands, but all the
        families shared communitary work for the bennefit of all, like working
        in the building of a community house, or working in base of
        reciprocity, a person helped other family to harvest, so a member of
        the family was in debt to hepl him, the inca´s empire worked just in
        base of this reciprocity and that was the way that they were able to
        do so many things in a short period.
        I think that this would be a great way to build a "community of
        communities"a pleasant life and a pleasant world.And if life is
        pleasant and happy, shurely we will be getting close to nature.
        Cheers
        Miguel




        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Bart" <bartovan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Miguel,
        >
        > thank you very much for responding, it's always very warming to
        > encounter companeros walking more or less the same road...
        >
        > We also experienced the need for having spiritual and practical
        > companeros closeby, and we also have thought about some kind of
        > community of
        > natural farmers, but partly because of some
        > experiences we have had with communities or intended
        > communities, and partly because of more
        > philosophical/spiritual reasons, we don't believe a
        > community project is viable or necessary. The only
        > community that works, we think, is a religious temple,
        > led by an authentic spiritual leader. Otherwise we think a
        > village-like organisation is just right, close enough to help and
        > share things but not too close to disturb. Or even just living like
        > good neighbours close to an existing village - we're not trying to run
        > away from "civilization", just trying to live an honest, meaningful
        > life without harming anyone or any living thing...
        >
        > The only people we met who were interested in setting up a community,
        > were people who had already tried to live in existing communities, but
        > failed because they couldn't harmonize with the others and needed
        > their OWN community with their OWN rules THEY liked - rather funny,
        > no, different people living alone on their huge piece of land waiting
        > for someone who would accept to live with them following the rules
        > they invented and they liked best...
        >
        > But maybe you mean by community just being
        > geographically close, like neighbours, organizing
        > some of the activities together, learning from each other's
        > experiences and knowledge, keeping an eye on
        > each other's children, and on the farm when someone
        > has to leave for a while - this would interest us
        > greatly.
        >
        > When we went to Mexico, we went with the idea of
        > integrating us in a small village, thinking people
        > over there would have some living spiritual tradition
        > and some ancestral farming knowledge. Sadly, both
        > ideas are false (at least in the places where we
        > were), materialism all over and pesticides also. Our
        > neighbours were always nice and rather helpful people
        > once the ice was broken, but not the kind we wanted to
        > let our children go to play with a lot (watching TV,
        > eating garbage, being yelled at and watching the dog
        > get kicked at, and in case of medical problems a quick
        > injection of some horse-remedy), nor could they begin
        > to understand what and why we were trying to do with
        > our lives.
        >
        > So as we see it, the ideal would be living in or
        > around a "normal" small village somewhere in
        > the mountains, but with a few natural farmers families
        > close by, living like neighbours and, if it comes out
        > that way, friends (or family when the children mary ;)
        > ). And this at a reasonable distance from a zen
        > practice center (4-5 hours still would be
        > reasonable)...
        >
        > We're not even really fixed on Mexico, could be any
        > country. But inside of Europe we would first have to
        > work 30 years to pay off the land and house, and
        > regulations are really strangling, we know of a lot of
        > bad stories by organic growers, trials, hate, etc.. And outside Europe
        > the only country to let us in easily is Mexico, because my wife
        > is Mexican...
        >
        > Looking forward to hearing from you again... (Maybe we should start
        > another topic if it would be of interest to the others, or go
        off-list...)
        > If anyone else on this list has experiences, good or bad, with natural
        > farming communities, please join in...
        >
        > greetings,
        > Bart
        >
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