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Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within seedballs

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  • rajutitus lal
    Dear friend, In normal condition we do not store seedballs year long.What is the use of keeping seedballs for so many years, best way to scatter seedballs
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 17, 2006
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      Dear friend, In normal condition we do not store seedballs year long.What is the use of keeping seedballs for so many years, best way to scatter seedballs every year in rainy season.For this you can make seedballs in any time it depend on your convinience.The problem is some seeds mainly pulses absorb water and break seed balls, for this soak seeds in water before making seedballs,then dry balls in shade.You are mainly making seedballs for making area green.If you are in Banglore please contact Partap Agerwal he converted a big area in to green
      his emai id is partapsudesh@....

      Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Thanks so much for such a prompt reply. Would it be possible to let me know what seeds would last a year within the seedballs? Which seeds would need the seedballs to be scattered immediately?

      Thanks once again!
      warm regards
      Radha
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: rajutitus lal
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:27 PM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within seedballs

      Dear friend, Thank you very much for making so much of seed balls.Winter season is best season for making seed balls in India.Dried seed balls can be stored in safe and moisture free place, scattering after sufficient rain is safe.
      Raju Titus

      Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Dear Mr. Raju Titus:

      What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a seedball at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made in making and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech Foundation (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in making the seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering could happen just before the rains. To do this they have to be able to store seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored in a seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!

      warm regards
      Radha

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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    • Anuradha Desikan Eswar
      Thanks again for the reply. The reason why I am asking if seedballs can be stored year long is, this organisation is trying to get millions of seedballs done
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 17, 2006
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        Thanks again for the reply.

        The reason why I am asking if seedballs can be stored year long is, this organisation is trying to get millions of seedballs done through many people much much before the rains even. If for example seedballs got done this month in October, can they scatter it in June when the rains hit Bangalore? Thank you.

        Warm regards
        Radha
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: rajutitus lal
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:25 AM
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within seedballs


        Dear friend, In normal condition we do not store seedballs year long.What is the use of keeping seedballs for so many years, best way to scatter seedballs every year in rainy season.For this you can make seedballs in any time it depend on your convinience.The problem is some seeds mainly pulses absorb water and break seed balls, for this soak seeds in water before making seedballs,then dry balls in shade.You are mainly making seedballs for making area green.If you are in Banglore please contact Partap Agerwal he converted a big area in to green
        his emai id is partapsudesh@....

        Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Thanks so much for such a prompt reply. Would it be possible to let me know what seeds would last a year within the seedballs? Which seeds would need the seedballs to be scattered immediately?

        Thanks once again!
        warm regards
        Radha
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: rajutitus lal
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:27 PM
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within seedballs

        Dear friend, Thank you very much for making so much of seed balls.Winter season is best season for making seed balls in India.Dried seed balls can be stored in safe and moisture free place, scattering after sufficient rain is safe.
        Raju Titus

        Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Dear Mr. Raju Titus:

        What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a seedball at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made in making and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech Foundation (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in making the seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering could happen just before the rains. To do this they have to be able to store seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored in a seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!

        warm regards
        Radha

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      • rajutitus lal
        Dear Friend, Yes no problem and if some seedballs remain canbe stored for next year. Raju Anuradha Desikan Eswar wrote:
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 18, 2006
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          Dear Friend,
          Yes no problem and if some seedballs remain canbe stored for next year.
          Raju

          Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Thanks again for the reply.

          The reason why I am asking if seedballs can be stored year long is, this organisation is trying to get millions of seedballs done through many people much much before the rains even. If for example seedballs got done this month in October, can they scatter it in June when the rains hit Bangalore? Thank you.

          Warm regards
          Radha
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: rajutitus lal
          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:25 AM
          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within seedballs

          Dear friend, In normal condition we do not store seedballs year long.What is the use of keeping seedballs for so many years, best way to scatter seedballs every year in rainy season.For this you can make seedballs in any time it depend on your convinience.The problem is some seeds mainly pulses absorb water and break seed balls, for this soak seeds in water before making seedballs,then dry balls in shade.You are mainly making seedballs for making area green.If you are in Banglore please contact Partap Agerwal he converted a big area in to green
          his emai id is partapsudesh@....

          Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Thanks so much for such a prompt reply. Would it be possible to let me know what seeds would last a year within the seedballs? Which seeds would need the seedballs to be scattered immediately?

          Thanks once again!
          warm regards
          Radha
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: rajutitus lal
          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:27 PM
          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within seedballs

          Dear friend, Thank you very much for making so much of seed balls.Winter season is best season for making seed balls in India.Dried seed balls can be stored in safe and moisture free place, scattering after sufficient rain is safe.
          Raju Titus

          Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Dear Mr. Raju Titus:

          What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a seedball at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made in making and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech Foundation (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in making the seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering could happen just before the rains. To do this they have to be able to store seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored in a seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!

          warm regards
          Radha

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ---------------------------------
          Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

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        • Douglas Barnes
          Hi Radha, I don t have an answer, but I think that if you ask Jeff Nugent at sari@permacultureplants.net he can help. He has extensive knowledge of plants,
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 18, 2006
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            Hi Radha,

            I don't have an answer, but I think that if you ask Jeff Nugent at
            sari@... he can help. He has extensive knowledge of
            plants, particularly those of a tropical and sub-tropical climate.

            Good luck.

            Douglas Barnes
            http://www.ecoedge.ca
            http://permaculturetokyo.blogspot.com


            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Anuradha Desikan Eswar"
            <eswar.rad@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Mr. Raju Titus:
            >
            > What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a seedball
            at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made in making
            and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech Foundation
            (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in making the
            seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering could happen
            just before the rains. To do this they have to be able to store
            seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored in a
            seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!
            >
            > warm regards
            > Radha
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Anuradha Desikan Eswar
            Thanks Doug. I have sent a mail to Jeff. Thanks too for featuring the millionseedball site on your blog. World over this has to happen and in greater numbers.
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 18, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks Doug. I have sent a mail to Jeff. Thanks too for featuring the millionseedball site on your blog. World over this has to happen and in greater numbers. As some of us stood on top of hills overseeing the scattering of lakhs of seedballs by children, our pride at our achievement slowly dissolved into humility...the many bags of seedballs got engulfed by just a quarter of a hillside in no time at all. The other sides were begging for seedballs and we could return only next year!...Only then did we realise even millions wont help...maybe we should aim for trillions...The group is very seriously looking into making it a bigger achievement next year. Wish them luck.

              Warm regards
              Radha
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Douglas Barnes
              To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:07 PM
              Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: fertility of seeds within seedballs


              Hi Radha,

              I don't have an answer, but I think that if you ask Jeff Nugent at
              sari@... he can help. He has extensive knowledge of
              plants, particularly those of a tropical and sub-tropical climate.

              Good luck.

              Douglas Barnes
              http://www.ecoedge.ca
              http://permaculturetokyo.blogspot.com

              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Anuradha Desikan Eswar"
              <eswar.rad@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Mr. Raju Titus:
              >
              > What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a seedball
              at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made in making
              and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech Foundation
              (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in making the
              seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering could happen
              just before the rains. To do this they have to be able to store
              seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored in a
              seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!
              >
              > warm regards
              > Radha
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • michiyoshibuya
              Hello Radha, I thought I could join this discussion for now on the forum; I think that more experiments are needed to get the answer, but there s a good
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 19, 2006
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                Hello Radha,

                I thought I could join this discussion for now on the forum;

                I think that more experiments are needed to get the answer, but
                there's a good possibility that seedballs are good as the seed
                storage if the clayballs are made airtight, crack-free made with
                appropriate clay--which we don't know what exactly.

                Didn't someone bring up the topic of scattering the seedballs
                containing tree seeds in the Autumn for the land waiting for snow,
                so that the seeds are cooled down(some trees seeds need to be
                treated that way, I understand) for the right period of time
                and sprout in the spring? How did the experiment go?

                I also wonder if keeping the seeds in the scattered seedballs(in
                nature) will prevent the seeds to go dormant. If this method works,
                it will be a great findings for wild plant&tree and said-to-be
                difficult plants growers.
                Could anyone share thoughts or ideas?

                Last year in Greece, I heard that many of the small seedballs were
                melted because of the heavy rain in the winter time, but the big
                ones--which are disc-shaped and cotton containing remain in shape
                and sprouted beautifully in the spring time.

                I also found the sacks of seedballs forgotten for two or three years
                outside. I opened the sacks and found some all moldy and rotton,
                but others were just sprouting or already growing in and among tiny
                bit of soil they found in the sack.

                I always keep some seedballs in my house for samples--for sudden
                visiters interested in seedballs or taking photographs. When I carry
                them around, I pack them in some luxurious European chocolate box
                with a ribbon(which I saved when I received those chocolates).
                Although I have never done it myself, it might serve as a gift in
                place of the canned plant-kit(is this just a Japanese thing, or can
                this be found anywhere?)

                Anyway, the seedballs maintain good hard shape even after moving
                around in a box for so many days and left alone for many many months.

                It is really important to make the seedballs crack-free(when they
                are completely dried). It is also important that the seedballs are
                completely dry before storing.

                It is sometimes difficult to make crack-free seedballs depending on
                the kind of clay used and kind of seeds used. When the digged clay
                is not sticky enough, I mix with other store-bought ceramic clay.
                You can test and compare the appropriate clay by making the
                clayballs with each sample clay, and
                sink them in separate cups with water, and watch how long the shape
                is maintained in water.

                For the beans and peas, the seeds need to be soaked for the right
                lenghth of time, (we've talked about it before)
                and for the big seeds, like peaches and almonds, I have little
                experience--all the peach seeds in the outside sacks in Greece were
                so modly to the point they could not maintain the shape when I
                touched them. I started to wonder if the shelled seeds need to be
                in the seedballs.




                Maybe I brought up too many thoughts, but I hope I am on the right
                topic.

                Michiyo Shibuya

                ps
                Dear my personal friends on this forum, please write to my private e-
                mail address for private messages since I rarely check this yahoo
                address. Dear friends who I do not know yet, you can always write
                me messages to this yahoo address I will read it some time and
                respond.

                pps
                Radha, see you in two weeks, I will be in Bangalore on 12th and 13th
                Nov, arriving late Saturday night, leaving early Tuesday morning.
                Hope to see you there!

                ppps
                I forgot to report the result of my copper-mine seeding in the
                spring. 2 tons of 7 year-old seeds sprouted beautifully (we can
                know the lifespan of seeds written out in packages or books are not
                always true)and they made nice green carpet in the summer time. We
                did the Autumn seeding, too, and now already looking forward for the
                spring!




                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Anuradha Desikan Eswar"
                <eswar.rad@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks again for the reply.
                >
                > The reason why I am asking if seedballs can be stored year long
                is, this organisation is trying to get millions of seedballs done
                through many people much much before the rains even. If for example
                seedballs got done this month in October, can they scatter it in
                June when the rains hit Bangalore? Thank you.
                >
                > Warm regards
                > Radha
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: rajutitus lal
                > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:25 AM
                > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within
                seedballs
                >
                >
                > Dear friend, In normal condition we do not store seedballs year
                long.What is the use of keeping seedballs for so many years, best
                way to scatter seedballs every year in rainy season.For this you can
                make seedballs in any time it depend on your convinience.The problem
                is some seeds mainly pulses absorb water and break seed balls, for
                this soak seeds in water before making seedballs,then dry balls in
                shade.You are mainly making seedballs for making area green.If you
                are in Banglore please contact Partap Agerwal he converted a big
                area in to green
                > his emai id is partapsudesh@...
                >
                > Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Thanks so much for
                such a prompt reply. Would it be possible to let me know what seeds
                would last a year within the seedballs? Which seeds would need the
                seedballs to be scattered immediately?
                >
                > Thanks once again!
                > warm regards
                > Radha
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: rajutitus lal
                > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:27 PM
                > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within
                seedballs
                >
                > Dear friend, Thank you very much for making so much of seed
                balls.Winter season is best season for making seed balls in
                India.Dried seed balls can be stored in safe and moisture free
                place, scattering after sufficient rain is safe.
                > Raju Titus
                >
                > Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Dear Mr. Raju
                Titus:
                >
                > What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a
                seedball at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made
                in making and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech
                Foundation (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in
                making the seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering
                could happen just before the rains. To do this they have to be able
                to store seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored
                in a seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!
                >
                > warm regards
                > Radha
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
                Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
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                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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              • Anuradha Desikan Eswar
                Thanks a ton Michiyo! We shall spend time experimenting some more this year within controlled space and go ahead and get many people to participate like we did
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 19, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks a ton Michiyo! We shall spend time experimenting some more this year within controlled space and go ahead and get many people to participate like we did last Summer, for scattering for the next year too. You have now given me reasons to think up experiments to check if scattering also should be attempted any time of the year. So far we have only attempted scattering just when the monsoon sets in. We shall test all theories.

                  We tried to make seedballs out of harvikia pinnata and pongamia and the seedballs swelled so for the latter and sprouted in 2 days for the former. So for the pinnata we have attemtped to make seedballs by not fully removing the hard shell. Pongamia is best just dibbled I guess. Will test some more once again.

                  Meet you soon in Bangalore! Have a safe journey!

                  Warm regards
                  Radha
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: michiyoshibuya
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:58 PM
                  Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: fertility of seeds within seedballs


                  Hello Radha,

                  I thought I could join this discussion for now on the forum;

                  I think that more experiments are needed to get the answer, but
                  there's a good possibility that seedballs are good as the seed
                  storage if the clayballs are made airtight, crack-free made with
                  appropriate clay--which we don't know what exactly.

                  Didn't someone bring up the topic of scattering the seedballs
                  containing tree seeds in the Autumn for the land waiting for snow,
                  so that the seeds are cooled down(some trees seeds need to be
                  treated that way, I understand) for the right period of time
                  and sprout in the spring? How did the experiment go?

                  I also wonder if keeping the seeds in the scattered seedballs(in
                  nature) will prevent the seeds to go dormant. If this method works,
                  it will be a great findings for wild plant&tree and said-to-be
                  difficult plants growers.
                  Could anyone share thoughts or ideas?

                  Last year in Greece, I heard that many of the small seedballs were
                  melted because of the heavy rain in the winter time, but the big
                  ones--which are disc-shaped and cotton containing remain in shape
                  and sprouted beautifully in the spring time.

                  I also found the sacks of seedballs forgotten for two or three years
                  outside. I opened the sacks and found some all moldy and rotton,
                  but others were just sprouting or already growing in and among tiny
                  bit of soil they found in the sack.

                  I always keep some seedballs in my house for samples--for sudden
                  visiters interested in seedballs or taking photographs. When I carry
                  them around, I pack them in some luxurious European chocolate box
                  with a ribbon(which I saved when I received those chocolates).
                  Although I have never done it myself, it might serve as a gift in
                  place of the canned plant-kit(is this just a Japanese thing, or can
                  this be found anywhere?)

                  Anyway, the seedballs maintain good hard shape even after moving
                  around in a box for so many days and left alone for many many months.

                  It is really important to make the seedballs crack-free(when they
                  are completely dried). It is also important that the seedballs are
                  completely dry before storing.

                  It is sometimes difficult to make crack-free seedballs depending on
                  the kind of clay used and kind of seeds used. When the digged clay
                  is not sticky enough, I mix with other store-bought ceramic clay.
                  You can test and compare the appropriate clay by making the
                  clayballs with each sample clay, and
                  sink them in separate cups with water, and watch how long the shape
                  is maintained in water.

                  For the beans and peas, the seeds need to be soaked for the right
                  lenghth of time, (we've talked about it before)
                  and for the big seeds, like peaches and almonds, I have little
                  experience--all the peach seeds in the outside sacks in Greece were
                  so modly to the point they could not maintain the shape when I
                  touched them. I started to wonder if the shelled seeds need to be
                  in the seedballs.

                  Maybe I brought up too many thoughts, but I hope I am on the right
                  topic.

                  Michiyo Shibuya

                  ps
                  Dear my personal friends on this forum, please write to my private e-
                  mail address for private messages since I rarely check this yahoo
                  address. Dear friends who I do not know yet, you can always write
                  me messages to this yahoo address I will read it some time and
                  respond.

                  pps
                  Radha, see you in two weeks, I will be in Bangalore on 12th and 13th
                  Nov, arriving late Saturday night, leaving early Tuesday morning.
                  Hope to see you there!

                  ppps
                  I forgot to report the result of my copper-mine seeding in the
                  spring. 2 tons of 7 year-old seeds sprouted beautifully (we can
                  know the lifespan of seeds written out in packages or books are not
                  always true)and they made nice green carpet in the summer time. We
                  did the Autumn seeding, too, and now already looking forward for the
                  spring!

                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Anuradha Desikan Eswar"
                  <eswar.rad@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks again for the reply.
                  >
                  > The reason why I am asking if seedballs can be stored year long
                  is, this organisation is trying to get millions of seedballs done
                  through many people much much before the rains even. If for example
                  seedballs got done this month in October, can they scatter it in
                  June when the rains hit Bangalore? Thank you.
                  >
                  > Warm regards
                  > Radha
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: rajutitus lal
                  > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:25 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within
                  seedballs
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear friend, In normal condition we do not store seedballs year
                  long.What is the use of keeping seedballs for so many years, best
                  way to scatter seedballs every year in rainy season.For this you can
                  make seedballs in any time it depend on your convinience.The problem
                  is some seeds mainly pulses absorb water and break seed balls, for
                  this soak seeds in water before making seedballs,then dry balls in
                  shade.You are mainly making seedballs for making area green.If you
                  are in Banglore please contact Partap Agerwal he converted a big
                  area in to green
                  > his emai id is partapsudesh@...
                  >
                  > Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Thanks so much for
                  such a prompt reply. Would it be possible to let me know what seeds
                  would last a year within the seedballs? Which seeds would need the
                  seedballs to be scattered immediately?
                  >
                  > Thanks once again!
                  > warm regards
                  > Radha
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: rajutitus lal
                  > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:27 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] fertility of seeds within
                  seedballs
                  >
                  > Dear friend, Thank you very much for making so much of seed
                  balls.Winter season is best season for making seed balls in
                  India.Dried seed balls can be stored in safe and moisture free
                  place, scattering after sufficient rain is safe.
                  > Raju Titus
                  >
                  > Anuradha Desikan Eswar <eswar.rad@...> wrote: Dear Mr. Raju
                  Titus:
                  >
                  > What would you say are the seeds which can be made into a
                  seedball at least a year before scattering? A great effort was made
                  in making and scattering lakhs of seedballs by BCIL-Alt Tech
                  Foundation (www.millionseedballs.org). They are now interested in
                  making the seedballs much before monsoon and store them. Scattering
                  could happen just before the rains. To do this they have to be able
                  to store seedballs properly and use viable seeds that can be stored
                  in a seedball medium. Would appreciate any advice. Thanks a lot!
                  >
                  > warm regards
                  > Radha
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
                  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
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