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  • sbecc@berkshire.net
    ... Subject: FW: Water or Gold... From: Macveety, Susan Date: Tue, May 30, 2006 7:39 am To: Maxwell MacVeety
    Message 1 of 7 , May 30, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      ---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
      Subject: FW: Water or Gold...
      From: "Macveety, Susan" <Susan.Macveety@...>
      Date: Tue, May 30, 2006 7:39 am
      To: "Maxwell MacVeety" <mmacveet@...>
      Cc: sbecc@...
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------


      m
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Camellia Vernon [mailto:kiavernon@...]
      Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:44 AM
      To: Macveety, Susan; Grenon, Kathy; Danielle; Lorette Vernon; Margaret;
      Andrew Vernon; amanda
      Subject: Water or Gold...

      > Subject: Water or gold?
      >
      > In the Valle de San Felix, the purest water in Chile
      runs from 2 rivers, fed by 2 glaciers. Water is a
      most precious resource, and wars will be
      > fought for it. Indigenous farmers use the water,
      there is no unemployment, and they provide the second
      largest source of income for yhe area.
      >
      > Under the glaciers has been found a huge deposit of
      gold, silver and other minerals. To get at these, it
      would be necessary to break, to destroy
      > the glaciers - something never conceived of in the
      history of the world -and to make 2 huge holes, each
      as big as a whole mountain, one for extraction
      > and one for the mine's rubbish tip. The project is
      called PASCUA LAMA. The company is called Barrick
      Gold. (Barrick Gold is mining at Lake Cowal-NSW
      > Australia at the moment!)
      > The operation is planned by a multi-national
      company, one of whose members is George Bush Senior.
      The Chilean Government has approved the
      > project to start this year, 2006.
      >
      > The only reason it hasn't started yet is because the
      farmers have got a temporary stay of execution. If
      they destroy the glaciers, they will not just
      > destroy the source of especially pure water, but
      they will permanently contaminate the 2 rivers so they
      will never again be fit for human or animal
      > consumption because of the use of cyanide and
      sulphuric acid in the extraction process.
      >
      > Every last gram of gold will go abroad to the
      multinational company and not one will be left with
      the people whose and it is. They will only be left
      > with the poisoned water and the resulting illnesses.
      >
      > The farmers have been fighting a long time for their
      land, but have been forbidden to make a TV appeal by a
      ban from the Ministry of the Interior.
      >
      > Their only hope now of putting brakes on this
      project is to get help from international justice.The
      world must know what is happening in
      > Chile. The only place to start changing the world is
      from here.
      >
      > We ask you to circulate this message amongst your
      friends in the following way. Please copy this text,
      paste it into a new email adding your signature
      > and send it to everyone in your address book.
      Please, will the 100th person to receive and sign the
      petition, send it to noapascualama@...
      > to be forwarded to the Chilean Government.
      >
      > No to Pascua Lama Open-cast mine in the Andean
      Cordillera on the Chilean-Argentine frontier. We ask
      the Chilean Government not to authorize the
      > Pascua Lama project to protect the whole of 3
      glaciers, the purity of the water of the San Felix
      Valley and El Transito, the quality of the
      agricultural land of the
      > region of Atacama, the quality of life of the
      Diaguita people and of the whole population of the
      region.
      >
      > Signature, City, Country
      > 1) Katharine Proudfoot, Edinburgh,Scotland, UK
      > 2) Laura Cole, London, UK
      > 3) David Platt, London, UK
      > 4) Diane Platt, Manchester, UK
      > 5) Tanya Corker, Manchester, UK
      > 6) Nicola Hargreaves, UK
      > 7) Nicholas Jones, UK
      > 8) Johann Don-Daniel, Germany
      > 9) Ashley Berger, Germany
      > 10) Sarah Downie, Leeds, UK
      > 11) Paula Delahunty, Bingley, UK
      > 12) John O'Driscoll, Bingley, Uk
      > 13) Jordan-Lee Delahunty, Bingley, UK
      > 14) Claire Mulvey, Bradford, UK
      > 15) Marie Malcolm Bradford, UK
      > 16) Ann Clowes, Halifax UK
      > 17) Jayne McGee, Brighouse UK
      > 18) Jason Barratt Oldham UK
      > 19) Lindsay Torrance, Rochdale UK
      > 20) Maggie Ford, Rochdale, U.K.
      > 21) Barry Cook, Todmorden, U.K.
      > 22) Shelley Burgoyne, Todmorden, U.K.
      > 23) Lisa Stuart, Potes, Spain.
      > 24) Michael Stuart, Potes, Spain.
      > 25) Renee Engl, Byron Bay, Australia
      > 26) Adrian Begg, Brunswick Heads,Australia
      > 27) Riana Begg, Brunswick Heads, Australia
      > 28) Oriel Paterson, Brunswick Heads,Australia
      > 29) Alicia Paterson, Brisbane, Australia
      > 30) Lyneve Robinson, Sydney, Australia
      > 31) Jennifer Moalem, Sydney, Australia
      > 32) Alexandra Pope, Sydney Australia
      > 33) Shushann Movsessian, Sydney Australia
      > 34) Amanda Frost
      > 35) Tarshito , Montecollum,NSW Australia
      > 36) Eltara
      > 37) Michael Webb, The Channon,NSWAustralia
      > 38) Sarah LaRock, New Orleans, USA
      > 39) Annie LaRock, New Orleans, USA
      > 40) David Zurak , New York, USA
      > 41) Sapidah Kian, Melbourne, Australia
      > 42) Blake Osborn , Byron Bay, Australia
      > 43) Pip Theobald, South Golden Beach, NSW,Australia
      > 44) Morgane Kerisit, Byron Bay, NSW,Australia
      > 45) Anthony Nunns, Byron Bay, NSW,Australia
      > 46) Peter Westheimer, Byron Bay NSW,Australia
      > 47) Alan Goldstein, Goonengerry NSW,Australia
      > 48) Carole Bruce, Stroud, Glos, UK
      > 49) Roe Woodroffe Grange-in -BorrowdaleCumbria UK
      > 50)Ana Rezende, Forest Row, UK
      > 51) Anita Charton, Basel, Switzerland
      > 52) Christine Olmos Switzerland
      > 53) Joseph Rubano, Oceanside, CA, USA
      > 54) Yelena Sedochenkova, San Diego, CA USA
      > 55) Brette Lavery, Vallejo, CA USA
      > 56) Tei Gundolfi San Francisco, CA

      57) Debra Denison, Vermont USA
      58) Camellia Vernon, Massachusetts, USA
      59)BobMacVeety, Massachusetts, USA

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    • Joy
      Hi, I ve been on the list for awhile - have been deeply inspired by Fukuoka s books, and feel a sense of being led to this path of farming/gardening. My
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 15, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, I've been on the list for awhile - have been deeply inspired by
        Fukuoka's books, and feel a sense of being "led" to this path of
        farming/gardening. My friend, who owns the trailer in which we live,
        has just bought land near Dennis Kansas, Zone 6 gardening I believe.
        Closing won't be till maybe a month from now, so will probably be early
        August before we are able to get the trailer moved onto the land - all
        utilities are there, set up for us to get connected. Gradually over
        next couple years Mike will be undergoing various building projects,
        sheds, animal shelters, and finally a bermed home, built with
        temperature moderating properties. We're hoping to become
        self-sufficient and be able to function "off the grid" in a couple years.
        There are about 8 acres, one of which is at present a landscaped "yard"
        on which the trailer will sit. Soon there will be no grass being mown.
        There is a built up pond behind the present homesite ( the home Mike
        builds will be in Northwest, back left corner of the property). The
        pond is part of an active watershed, water flowing across a path on the
        property, mostly in ditch, but if heavy rain opens a little onto
        surrounding earth. Water doesn't stand on the property at present,
        but we're considering putting in
        several different heighth drain pipes in the pond, which can be closed
        or opened at will, allowing us to temporarily flood part of the land
        behind the pond at will. I'm thinking of doing a fairly traditional
        twice dug raised bed kitchen garden. I won't actually use boxes to
        raise the beds, but dig ditches down into clay which underlies all the
        earth here, build up raised beds with good soil dug out of the
        paths/water canals.
        Once built I won't be turning this soil further - will use mulch and
        cover crops, but want to have producing veggie garden next year, and its
        going to take time to get this land in good growing condition.
        Plus, I like very much the idea of having paths through my herbs and
        veggie beds, of never actually
        walking on the growing bed, and having double use of the path for water
        channel, letting water soak into
        good soil and roots, rather than watering from top. Thinking of
        building a side ditch off the main drainage system, with a water gate,
        so I can make direct use of the watershed, directing some of it into my
        garden path/water channels. The big portion of the land is west/left of
        the pond. Probably 5-6 acres total, presently in hay, with drainage
        ditch bisecting it - ditch comes in at back northeast corner, heads up
        through front southwest corner into neighbor's property. The hay has
        just been harvested. I'm trying to decide what if anything to do with
        the land this year, and am so unsure about timing and what I can best
        due this year yet. We're likely past the best of our spring rains
        here. I could toss some seed before our closing, but if anything
        happens, I'd hate to have lost the upfront cost of the seed. Soil has
        been heavily used, and fertilized, and doesn't go deep, is clay through
        much of it, and big stone slabs down about 4 feet throughout the
        property. There are good but fairly young trees in place around and
        spaced out directly behind the pond. Hay area wide open. I do want to
        get some trees growing in there - any ideas of good
        trees, fast growing, deep roots, that would grow well in this climate?
        I won't be using tractor or tilling or mowing at all. Will do whatever
        I do by hand and on foot, with scythe as needed. Wondering if there is
        any advice about good cover crop for this area? One I could start in
        late August or early September, over winter, to help stabalize and feed
        the soil. May do nothing but cover crops and trees for a couple years
        on the west field area (back of which will have the new house in a few
        years). May do some grain production there - thinking of amaranth
        and/or quinoa, plus possibly rice. My son and I can't eat wheat, could
        use wheat as a cover crop, but not for harvest. Veggie garden in more
        protected area on back of property, east of pond and trees, just south
        of the drainage ditch. Any suggestions are more than welcome. Thanks, Joy

        >
      • Jeff
        Congradulations.... Sounds like a fun but challenging place to live. I know peacans grow good there.... Oaks do too, if you are into acorn flour... with
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 17, 2006
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          Congradulations....
          Sounds like a fun but challenging place to live.


          I know peacans grow good there....
          Oaks do too, if you are into acorn flour...

          with irrigation... peaches, apples, pears, etc...
          with zone 6.. in Kansas your limiting factor will be the water
          supply for the first 8-10 years

          You should also look up the Land Institute in Salina Kansas
          They are working with perrenial crop development.
          Of primary interest for you would
          probably be their wort with perrenial sorguhm and Illionois
          Bundleflower (legume-lentil sized seeds)

          Sorguhm is grown commerically in small scale in kansas as well
          (annual)

          Something that may be worth looking into is
          Buffalo Gourd, it is a perrenial cubrite naitive to the area, found
          on waste areas.. although the fruit is EXTREMELy bitter and
          inedible, some people have reported decent yeilds by processing for
          the seeds inside, high protein, high oil....

          Sunflowers also do well in Kansas.... .. I"m not sure how effective
          seedballs are in planting/germination with sunflowers, but again
          this could be something to experiment with

          with enough water (LOTS AND LOTS), or a drought resistant variety
          (try heirloom from NM-AZ..) Corn would be good,.. zuni tribe has
          brought back traditional farming methods and have been averaging 40
          bu/acre in high desert with no irrigation.


          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Joy <smjlists@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi, I've been on the list for awhile - have been deeply inspired
          by
          > Fukuoka's books, and feel a sense of being "led" to this path of
          > farming/gardening. My friend, who owns the trailer in which we
          live,
          > has just bought land near Dennis Kansas, Zone 6 gardening I
          believe.
          > Closing won't be till maybe a month from now, so will probably be
          early
          > August before we are able to get the trailer moved onto the land -
          all
          > utilities are there, set up for us to get connected. Gradually
          over
          > next couple years Mike will be undergoing various building
          projects,
          > sheds, animal shelters, and finally a bermed home, built with
          > temperature moderating properties. We're hoping to become
          > self-sufficient and be able to function "off the grid" in a couple
          years.
          > There are about 8 acres, one of which is at present a
          landscaped "yard"
          > on which the trailer will sit. Soon there will be no grass being
          mown.
          > There is a built up pond behind the present homesite ( the home
          Mike
          > builds will be in Northwest, back left corner of the property).
          The
          > pond is part of an active watershed, water flowing across a path
          on the
          > property, mostly in ditch, but if heavy rain opens a little onto
          > surrounding earth. Water doesn't stand on the property at
          present,
          > but we're considering putting in
          > several different heighth drain pipes in the pond, which can be
          closed
          > or opened at will, allowing us to temporarily flood part of the
          land
          > behind the pond at will. I'm thinking of doing a fairly
          traditional
          > twice dug raised bed kitchen garden. I won't actually use boxes
          to
          > raise the beds, but dig ditches down into clay which underlies all
          the
          > earth here, build up raised beds with good soil dug out of the
          > paths/water canals.
          > Once built I won't be turning this soil further - will use mulch
          and
          > cover crops, but want to have producing veggie garden next year,
          and its
          > going to take time to get this land in good growing condition.
          > Plus, I like very much the idea of having paths through my herbs
          and
          > veggie beds, of never actually
          > walking on the growing bed, and having double use of the path for
          water
          > channel, letting water soak into
          > good soil and roots, rather than watering from top. Thinking of
          > building a side ditch off the main drainage system, with a water
          gate,
          > so I can make direct use of the watershed, directing some of it
          into my
          > garden path/water channels. The big portion of the land is
          west/left of
          > the pond. Probably 5-6 acres total, presently in hay, with
          drainage
          > ditch bisecting it - ditch comes in at back northeast corner,
          heads up
          > through front southwest corner into neighbor's property. The hay
          has
          > just been harvested. I'm trying to decide what if anything to do
          with
          > the land this year, and am so unsure about timing and what I can
          best
          > due this year yet. We're likely past the best of our spring rains
          > here. I could toss some seed before our closing, but if anything
          > happens, I'd hate to have lost the upfront cost of the seed. Soil
          has
          > been heavily used, and fertilized, and doesn't go deep, is clay
          through
          > much of it, and big stone slabs down about 4 feet throughout the
          > property. There are good but fairly young trees in place around
          and
          > spaced out directly behind the pond. Hay area wide open. I do
          want to
          > get some trees growing in there - any ideas of good
          > trees, fast growing, deep roots, that would grow well in this
          climate?
          > I won't be using tractor or tilling or mowing at all. Will do
          whatever
          > I do by hand and on foot, with scythe as needed. Wondering if
          there is
          > any advice about good cover crop for this area? One I could start
          in
          > late August or early September, over winter, to help stabalize and
          feed
          > the soil. May do nothing but cover crops and trees for a couple
          years
          > on the west field area (back of which will have the new house in a
          few
          > years). May do some grain production there - thinking of amaranth
          > and/or quinoa, plus possibly rice. My son and I can't eat wheat,
          could
          > use wheat as a cover crop, but not for harvest. Veggie garden in
          more
          > protected area on back of property, east of pond and trees, just
          south
          > of the drainage ditch. Any suggestions are more than welcome.
          Thanks, Joy
          >
          > >
          >
        • BT Benjaminson
          Daikon radishes sound like they may be worth sowing in the early fall. These are very strong to break up hard clay soil. Good ones can go down 1 - 2 feet.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 18, 2006
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            Daikon radishes sound like they may be worth sowing in the early fall. These are very strong to break up hard clay soil. Good ones can go down 1 - 2 feet.
            Bat-Tzion
            Negev, Israel


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gloria C. Baikauskas
            What a great new start for the two of you! One big thing with Fukuoka s wisdom was to do as little as possible to interfere with Nature. By double digging your
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 22, 2006
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              What a great new start for the two of you!

              One big thing with Fukuoka's wisdom was to do as little as possible
              to interfere with Nature. By double digging your raised beds you will
              be massively interfering. You will also be bringing up weed seeds
              from a place where they would not otherwise germinate making more
              work for you later. That said, we on this group do realize that
              weeds are beneficial.

              You would be better off using a lasagne style gardening bed to
              achieve your goal in this because it interferes far less. If you do
              it starting as soon as you take the property, you should have
              marvelous soil and raised bed to plant in for the spring. It is
              sheet composting at its best. Sheet composting in this way gives
              more immediate benefit to the place that it is done. Heavy use of
              wheat straw on the soil over wet newspaper, or cardboard along with
              other layers should do the job well...or even the straw without the
              newspaper, or cardboard. You can smother out things very well with
              the straw bales.

              Do remember that raised beds work best in a climate that is not dry.
              If that area of Kansas is rather dry in the growing season, you would
              be better off not raising the beds. The reason is that, even though
              it is not always apparent to the gardener, the top inches of soil dry
              out faster in the heat than on level garden beds. We can water in
              the morning, and by night the plants are in stress. If you don't
              have much heat in the daytime, and the air is mostly humid, this is
              not a problem. Stressed plants invite insects to invade, as well as
              disease.

              If you take this advice, it would be a good idea to try to sow a
              winter cover crop on this bed. Choose the one best suited to your
              area.

              I noticed someone mentioned daikon radishes to help you break up the
              soil...haven't read the post, but I did see that much. They are a
              great tool.

              An alternative to wheat is the original wheat which does not contain
              the part of the wheat that you are allergic to. This is called
              Kamut. It is available in the US, though not as easy to find. The
              seed was brought to the US by a returning soldier to his father in
              Montana after WWII. It took a while to find a market here, but it is
              grown, though not in the numbers that wheat as we know it is. Do
              some research on it. You will find it is recommended for folksl with
              wheat allergies. There are many online recipe sources for kamut, so
              you could again enjoy things you thought you never would be able to
              eat.

              Fast growing trees produce weak wood. So....do temper that idea with
              that knowledge....that in storms you will have much breakage.
              Growing trees in groups instead of in groups of one will help the
              trees to grow more quickly. Science has proven that trees grow
              better together than alone....and that they do talk to each other in
              what they have labelled 'W' waves. What you can do is to plant some
              faster growing trees along with some that take a bit slower approach
              to life. That way you will insure you will still have trees after a
              storm....and not so many branches to clear. My ash trees grow rather
              quickly, but the oaks are slower. Still it is best to go for
              diversity, so plant them both. I just read an article that in Iowa
              oak trees are growing scarce because of the impact of quick growing
              trees on Nature itself...not just because they are what people there
              are planting. We forget that what we plant also impacts Nature as
              the birds, squirrels, etc, spread the seed from them.

              Also research how much water the trees you choose will use from the
              water table. Native trees are always the very best choice. Research
              what trees are native to that area....though I know Kansas is a state
              in which prairie grasses once grew. There are trees destroying the
              water table of the area they grow in because they are not native, but
              adapted trees from areas that have far more water and humidity
              available than Kansas does. Once removed the water table returns to
              normal. That is so important today when so many areas no longer have
              safe, drinkable water available. Don't kid yourself, with the
              droughts going on in the US, and elsewhere, this is very important.

              I hope that helps you some.

              Gloria, Texas
              US zone 8a....

              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Joy <smjlists@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi, I've been on the list for awhile - have been deeply inspired by
              > Fukuoka's books, and feel a sense of being "led" to this path of
              > farming/gardening. My friend, who owns the trailer in which we
              live,
              > has just bought land near Dennis Kansas, Zone 6 gardening I
              believe.
              > Closing won't be till maybe a month from now, so will probably be
              early
              > August before we are able to get the trailer moved onto the land -
              all
              > utilities are there, set up for us to get connected. Gradually
              over
              > next couple years Mike will be undergoing various building
              projects,
              > sheds, animal shelters, and finally a bermed home, built with
              > temperature moderating properties. We're hoping to become
              > self-sufficient and be able to function "off the grid" in a couple
              years.
              > There are about 8 acres, one of which is at present a
              landscaped "yard"
              > on which the trailer will sit. Soon there will be no grass being
              mown.
              > There is a built up pond behind the present homesite ( the home
              Mike
              > builds will be in Northwest, back left corner of the property).
              The
              > pond is part of an active watershed, water flowing across a path on
              the
              > property, mostly in ditch, but if heavy rain opens a little onto
              > surrounding earth. Water doesn't stand on the property at
              present,
              > but we're considering putting in
              > several different heighth drain pipes in the pond, which can be
              closed
              > or opened at will, allowing us to temporarily flood part of the
              land
              > behind the pond at will. I'm thinking of doing a fairly
              traditional
              > twice dug raised bed kitchen garden. I won't actually use boxes to
              > raise the beds, but dig ditches down into clay which underlies all
              the
              > earth here, build up raised beds with good soil dug out of the
              > paths/water canals.
              > Once built I won't be turning this soil further - will use mulch
              and
              > cover crops, but want to have producing veggie garden next year,
              and its
              > going to take time to get this land in good growing condition.
              > Plus, I like very much the idea of having paths through my herbs
              and
              > veggie beds, of never actually
              > walking on the growing bed, and having double use of the path for
              water
              > channel, letting water soak into
              > good soil and roots, rather than watering from top. Thinking of
              > building a side ditch off the main drainage system, with a water
              gate,
              > so I can make direct use of the watershed, directing some of it
              into my
              > garden path/water channels. The big portion of the land is
              west/left of
              > the pond. Probably 5-6 acres total, presently in hay, with
              drainage
              > ditch bisecting it - ditch comes in at back northeast corner, heads
              up
              > through front southwest corner into neighbor's property. The hay
              has
              > just been harvested. I'm trying to decide what if anything to do
              with
              > the land this year, and am so unsure about timing and what I can
              best
              > due this year yet. We're likely past the best of our spring rains
              > here. I could toss some seed before our closing, but if anything
              > happens, I'd hate to have lost the upfront cost of the seed. Soil
              has
              > been heavily used, and fertilized, and doesn't go deep, is clay
              through
              > much of it, and big stone slabs down about 4 feet throughout the
              > property. There are good but fairly young trees in place around
              and
              > spaced out directly behind the pond. Hay area wide open. I do
              want to
              > get some trees growing in there - any ideas of good
              > trees, fast growing, deep roots, that would grow well in this
              climate?
              > I won't be using tractor or tilling or mowing at all. Will do
              whatever
              > I do by hand and on foot, with scythe as needed. Wondering if
              there is
              > any advice about good cover crop for this area? One I could start
              in
              > late August or early September, over winter, to help stabalize and
              feed
              > the soil. May do nothing but cover crops and trees for a couple
              years
              > on the west field area (back of which will have the new house in a
              few
              > years). May do some grain production there - thinking of amaranth
              > and/or quinoa, plus possibly rice. My son and I can't eat wheat,
              could
              > use wheat as a cover crop, but not for harvest. Veggie garden in
              more
              > protected area on back of property, east of pond and trees, just
              south
              > of the drainage ditch. Any suggestions are more than welcome.
              Thanks, Joy
              >
              > >
              >
            • Gloria C. Baikauskas
              I don t know if Tim Peters is still a member of this group, but you might look into some of his seeds. He is a seed developer in Oregon. He has developed some
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 22, 2006
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                I don't know if Tim Peters is still a member of this group, but you
                might look into some of his seeds. He is a seed developer in Oregon.
                He has developed some perennial grains for one thing. He also has some
                radish seeds I bought to try instead of the daikons that grow to the
                size of bowling balls....a meal for one in one radish!

                His website is: http://www.pioneer-net.com/psr/index.html

                Gloria, Texas
              • Niels Corfield
                My money is firmly on NOT digging and not having raised beds. In fact I think it is important to think outside the beds and paths paradigm for structuring a
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 22, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  My money is firmly on NOT digging and not having raised beds.
                  In fact I think it is important to think outside the beds and paths
                  paradigm for structuring a garden.
                  Because in fact we are creating ecosystems, in modern Western speak.
                  On the smaller-scale we could call these plant-communities, or
                  human-plant communities/polycultures.

                  Please post again to the list the exact state of the area of land in
                  question.
                  And, if you will, state clearly your desired outcomes with the change of
                  use.

                  _Cover crops_ are listed in Natural Way of Farming.
                  Sweet clover I would suggest sweet clover, meliltus alba, the biennial.
                  Fast growing , biomass, feed. Careful of spoiling when making hay, it
                  will contain coumarin.
                  Although all green manures are good.
                  The more variety the greater chance of stability overall.
                  All the clovers, vetches, mustards, buckwheat, alfalfa, beans etc.
                  _Trees_: alders, acacias, mesquite.

                  _Re vegetation_
                  Basically right across the site, from home to fence you basically want
                  to introduce as many seeds/plants as possible.
                  Spread seedballs all year.
                  _Save seed_ from every fruit you buy or eat: apples, pumpkin, tomatoes
                  (especially), anything that vines or sprawl will be a great one. etc.
                  _Shop bought seed_ for example dried kidney beans. Buy them by the kilo
                  and get them out there seedball massive.
                  Any other cheap seed sold as food: sunflower etc.

                  _Weed Cover_
                  Please give detailed info about exisiting vegetation on your land.
                  This will give pointers for seed and plant material sources.
                  And help guide techniques for "change-of-use".

                  _Water Management_
                  It is always worth looking at doing a site survey.
                  Finding the contours. This will help with site desgin and layout.
                  Also do think about swales.

                  Sounds great though.
                  How about some photos?
                  Maybe a Flickr account so we can keep up with the progress?

                  All the best,
                  Niels

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/65387153@N00/
                  http://del.icio.us/entrailer

                  Gloria C. Baikauskas wrote:

                  > What a great new start for the two of you!
                  >
                  > One big thing with Fukuoka's wisdom was to do as little as possible
                  > to interfere with Nature. By double digging your raised beds you will
                  > be massively interfering. You will also be bringing up weed seeds
                  > from a place where they would not otherwise germinate making more
                  > work for you later. That said, we on this group do realize that
                  > weeds are beneficial.
                  >
                  > You would be better off using a lasagne style gardening bed to
                  > achieve your goal in this because it interferes far less. If you do
                  > it starting as soon as you take the property, you should have
                  > marvelous soil and raised bed to plant in for the spring. It is
                  > sheet composting at its best. Sheet composting in this way gives
                  > more immediate benefit to the place that it is done. Heavy use of
                  > wheat straw on the soil over wet newspaper, or cardboard along with
                  > other layers should do the job well...or even the straw without the
                  > newspaper, or cardboard. You can smother out things very well with
                  > the straw bales.
                  >
                  > Do remember that raised beds work best in a climate that is not dry.
                  > If that area of Kansas is rather dry in the growing season, you would
                  > be better off not raising the beds. The reason is that, even though
                  > it is not always apparent to the gardener, the top inches of soil dry
                  > out faster in the heat than on level garden beds. We can water in
                  > the morning, and by night the plants are in stress. If you don't
                  > have much heat in the daytime, and the air is mostly humid, this is
                  > not a problem. Stressed plants invite insects to invade, as well as
                  > disease.
                  >
                  > If you take this advice, it would be a good idea to try to sow a
                  > winter cover crop on this bed. Choose the one best suited to your
                  > area.
                  >
                  > I noticed someone mentioned daikon radishes to help you break up the
                  > soil...haven't read the post, but I did see that much. They are a
                  > great tool.
                  >
                  > An alternative to wheat is the original wheat which does not contain
                  > the part of the wheat that you are allergic to. This is called
                  > Kamut. It is available in the US, though not as easy to find. The
                  > seed was brought to the US by a returning soldier to his father in
                  > Montana after WWII. It took a while to find a market here, but it is
                  > grown, though not in the numbers that wheat as we know it is. Do
                  > some research on it. You will find it is recommended for folksl with
                  > wheat allergies. There are many online recipe sources for kamut, so
                  > you could again enjoy things you thought you never would be able to
                  > eat.
                  >
                  > Fast growing trees produce weak wood. So....do temper that idea with
                  > that knowledge....that in storms you will have much breakage.
                  > Growing trees in groups instead of in groups of one will help the
                  > trees to grow more quickly. Science has proven that trees grow
                  > better together than alone....and that they do talk to each other in
                  > what they have labelled 'W' waves. What you can do is to plant some
                  > faster growing trees along with some that take a bit slower approach
                  > to life. That way you will insure you will still have trees after a
                  > storm....and not so many branches to clear. My ash trees grow rather
                  > quickly, but the oaks are slower. Still it is best to go for
                  > diversity, so plant them both. I just read an article that in Iowa
                  > oak trees are growing scarce because of the impact of quick growing
                  > trees on Nature itself...not just because they are what people there
                  > are planting. We forget that what we plant also impacts Nature as
                  > the birds, squirrels, etc, spread the seed from them.
                  >
                  > Also research how much water the trees you choose will use from the
                  > water table. Native trees are always the very best choice. Research
                  > what trees are native to that area....though I know Kansas is a state
                  > in which prairie grasses once grew. There are trees destroying the
                  > water table of the area they grow in because they are not native, but
                  > adapted trees from areas that have far more water and humidity
                  > available than Kansas does. Once removed the water table returns to
                  > normal. That is so important today when so many areas no longer have
                  > safe, drinkable water available. Don't kid yourself, with the
                  > droughts going on in the US, and elsewhere, this is very important.
                  >
                  > I hope that helps you some.
                  >
                  > Gloria, Texas
                  > US zone 8a....
                  >
                  > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>, Joy <smjlists@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi, I've been on the list for awhile - have been deeply inspired by
                  > > Fukuoka's books, and feel a sense of being "led" to this path of
                  > > farming/gardening. My friend, who owns the trailer in which we
                  > live,
                  > > has just bought land near Dennis Kansas, Zone 6 gardening I
                  > believe.
                  > > Closing won't be till maybe a month from now, so will probably be
                  > early
                  > > August before we are able to get the trailer moved onto the land -
                  > all
                  > > utilities are there, set up for us to get connected. Gradually
                  > over
                  > > next couple years Mike will be undergoing various building
                  > projects,
                  > > sheds, animal shelters, and finally a bermed home, built with
                  > > temperature moderating properties. We're hoping to become
                  > > self-sufficient and be able to function "off the grid" in a couple
                  > years.
                  > > There are about 8 acres, one of which is at present a
                  > landscaped "yard"
                  > > on which the trailer will sit. Soon there will be no grass being
                  > mown.
                  > > There is a built up pond behind the present homesite ( the home
                  > Mike
                  > > builds will be in Northwest, back left corner of the property).
                  > The
                  > > pond is part of an active watershed, water flowing across a path on
                  > the
                  > > property, mostly in ditch, but if heavy rain opens a little onto
                  > > surrounding earth. Water doesn't stand on the property at
                  > present,
                  > > but we're considering putting in
                  > > several different heighth drain pipes in the pond, which can be
                  > closed
                  > > or opened at will, allowing us to temporarily flood part of the
                  > land
                  > > behind the pond at will. I'm thinking of doing a fairly
                  > traditional
                  > > twice dug raised bed kitchen garden. I won't actually use boxes to
                  > > raise the beds, but dig ditches down into clay which underlies all
                  > the
                  > > earth here, build up raised beds with good soil dug out of the
                  > > paths/water canals.
                  > > Once built I won't be turning this soil further - will use mulch
                  > and
                  > > cover crops, but want to have producing veggie garden next year,
                  > and its
                  > > going to take time to get this land in good growing condition.
                  > > Plus, I like very much the idea of having paths through my herbs
                  > and
                  > > veggie beds, of never actually
                  > > walking on the growing bed, and having double use of the path for
                  > water
                  > > channel, letting water soak into
                  > > good soil and roots, rather than watering from top. Thinking of
                  > > building a side ditch off the main drainage system, with a water
                  > gate,
                  > > so I can make direct use of the watershed, directing some of it
                  > into my
                  > > garden path/water channels. The big portion of the land is
                  > west/left of
                  > > the pond. Probably 5-6 acres total, presently in hay, with
                  > drainage
                  > > ditch bisecting it - ditch comes in at back northeast corner, heads
                  > up
                  > > through front southwest corner into neighbor's property. The hay
                  > has
                  > > just been harvested. I'm trying to decide what if anything to do
                  > with
                  > > the land this year, and am so unsure about timing and what I can
                  > best
                  > > due this year yet. We're likely past the best of our spring rains
                  > > here. I could toss some seed before our closing, but if anything
                  > > happens, I'd hate to have lost the upfront cost of the seed. Soil
                  > has
                  > > been heavily used, and fertilized, and doesn't go deep, is clay
                  > through
                  > > much of it, and big stone slabs down about 4 feet throughout the
                  > > property. There are good but fairly young trees in place around
                  > and
                  > > spaced out directly behind the pond. Hay area wide open. I do
                  > want to
                  > > get some trees growing in there - any ideas of good
                  > > trees, fast growing, deep roots, that would grow well in this
                  > climate?
                  > > I won't be using tractor or tilling or mowing at all. Will do
                  > whatever
                  > > I do by hand and on foot, with scythe as needed. Wondering if
                  > there is
                  > > any advice about good cover crop for this area? One I could start
                  > in
                  > > late August or early September, over winter, to help stabalize and
                  > feed
                  > > the soil. May do nothing but cover crops and trees for a couple
                  > years
                  > > on the west field area (back of which will have the new house in a
                  > few
                  > > years). May do some grain production there - thinking of amaranth
                  > > and/or quinoa, plus possibly rice. My son and I can't eat wheat,
                  > could
                  > > use wheat as a cover crop, but not for harvest. Veggie garden in
                  > more
                  > > protected area on back of property, east of pond and trees, just
                  > south
                  > > of the drainage ditch. Any suggestions are more than welcome.
                  > Thanks, Joy
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
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