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  • torskel87
    Hi everyone I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to produce more
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 24, 2006
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      Hi everyone
      I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the
      present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to
      produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of oil based energy
      and organic matter from other places, so in wich way is it
      sustainable???, the only way that an agricultural method can be
      sustainable, and can be called natural it´s doing nothing and leting
      nature to do the work. When harvest is done in the garden, after
      working a lot and using a lot of intellect, people get pride by its
      size and shape, but that sensation of being proud is just because
      thinking that who produced that its the self, but when instead is
      naturally grown and is harvested, inmediatly we can feel an
      enormous joy because we undersdtand that nature is our mother, and
      she is who is giving us that gift.The real problem in the world is
      because we think that our intellect will sustain us despite the
      destruction that we are doing to nature.
      Other terrible problem is the false value that everyone give to the
      material things. These are some of the problems that are making this
      world a hell. Thats what is happening here in Ecuador; for centuries
      people lived just of their small lands growing corn, beens, squash,
      pumpkin, potaotoes, quinua, and a lot of wild vegetables and fruits;
      but with the arrival of technologies 30 years ago to "improve"
      agriculture all the native species of grains, vegetables and fruits
      dissapear, as the ancient methods to grow them .Now the situation is
      worst ,we are close to play with fire because the goverment wants to
      make a kind of comercial interchange of products and services with
      the US, so now it will be free the use of GMO´s seeds, now the poor
      peasents will be slaves of big chemical companies. Bioterrorism will
      be aproved because all the traditional knoledge about using the
      medicinal herbs and biodiversity will be robbed of the native people
      with the owner rights and intellectual property.Our society will be
      polarized, a few wealthy, and a lot of poor people.The worst thing
      is that nobody knows what is gonna happen with this trade; Peru and
      Colombia already sign this trade. All this monopolization created by
      the Us is because their natural resources as water, oil, clean air,
      biodiversity are dissapearing, so for not falling down they need new
      places to destroy.How are the small peasants gonna compete with
      their few products against products that the US export with subcides
      as weat, corn, rice, soybeans. There has been like two weeks of
      strikes against the sign of this trade, but the people who is
      manifesting might not achieve anything, allways the ambition and the
      power win over the dreams of the people of a equal and better
      society.
      I am just writing this so all of the people of the group who are in
      the US know whats going on, and whats doing the goverment, we might
      not be able to do anything, maybe the only thing its to live a
      simple and natural life while the world it´s wildly running towards
      destruction.

      Cheers
      Miguel
    • rorim
      ... Hi group I mostly read and not post however I d like to address this from my own perspective. I agree that organic in big AG is not the ideal but it is a
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 25, 2006
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        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "torskel87" <torskel87@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi everyone
        > I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the
        > present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to
        > produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of oil based energy
        > and organic matter from other places, so in wich way is it
        > sustainable???, >
        > Cheers
        > Miguel
        >
        Hi group
        I mostly read and not post however I'd like to address this from my
        own perspective.
        I agree that organic in big AG is not the ideal but it is a step in a
        better direction. I personally would rather see the row croppers
        using organic methods as opposed to traditional methods involving
        synthetic fertilizers and chemical pesticides and fungicides. I
        would never equate it with sustainable agriculture but I do feel it
        is progress towards less reliance on chemicals. To me sustainable
        agriculture goes back to the old time farming where a family raised
        many crops, milk cow, some sheep, chickens for eggs and meat and a
        garden for vegetables. These diverse groups were able to sustain the
        farm without inputs from outside the farm making it more economical
        and healthier for the family and environment. just my observation.

        Rori
        Runamuk Farm
      • debi novice
        Your danger warnings are not lost on many of us. Especially in this particular group. I cannot speak for everyone, obviously, but I do live in the United
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 25, 2006
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          Your danger warnings are not lost on many of us.
          Especially in this particular group.

          I cannot speak for everyone, obviously, but I do live
          in the United States, and am concerned on a few levels
          with what you speak of.

          "Organic", in the U.S. now, is a joke. The government
          took control of the label in the late 1990's, and
          there is no root value in that designation since that
          time. You are correct, when you speak of large
          agri-corps taking over the organic realm here. I am
          one of those having to fight the good fight, with
          every possibility of nasty consequences. I still
          believe there is a way for those of our bent to speak-
          well and with appropriate power- if we maintain
          diligence, integrity, and the good "minuteman"
          attitude.

          However, I must ask, why are you taking it for granted
          we U.S. citizens are settling for the status quo? Have
          you ignored the rest of our activities? Why would you
          assume that those who need the enlightenment of your
          post would be here, on FF? I'd think we are here
          because we already have a clue. Considering the US
          folk on this group live here in the states, and are
          absolutely going against the wishes of our government,
          perhaps we more of a clue of our reality than you, who
          prosletize from elsewhere.

          Are you willing to support us working on the inside,
          trying to make a difference? Would you rather just
          complain about us from a distance and put us all in
          the same nursery plot with broad, simplistic,
          characterizations and accusations? I'd like to think
          many of us Stateside folk have a brain cell or two
          left, and are already working- hard, if not always
          publicly- to get the best practices viable. We know
          more about the evil crap going on, because the gov
          swallowed us first, then moved on to trade agreements.


          We've lost children, land, homes, livelihoods. i'm
          almost glad our country's abuses are finally becoming
          known outside our borders. But: For you to claim us
          ignorant, speaks less of you. Get your facts,
          referents, history, and accusations straight, please.

          You make many assumptions in your post, only a couple
          do I feel are from your heart, rather than from a
          propaganda base. Please, if you want to toss
          accusations around: source, backup, and give
          independent, reliable referents.

          Are you truly, really, ready to own the full substance
          of your words? Please, I hope so. But only if you do
          understand the weight of your post. Us folk in the
          states have to live the reality you allude to. deb



          --- fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com wrote:

          > There is 1 message in this issue.
          >
          > Topics in this digest:
          >
          > 1. danger
          > From: "torskel87" <torskel87@...>
          >
          >
          >
          ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          > Message: 1
          > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:28:50 -0000
          > From: "torskel87" <torskel87@...>
          > Subject: danger
          >
          > Hi everyone
          > I think that organic farming is not in anyway a
          > solution for the
          > present ecological and human problems, is actually
          > just a way to
          > produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of
          > oil based energy
          > and organic matter from other places, so in wich way
          > is it
          > sustainable???, the only way that an agricultural
          > method can be
          > sustainable, and can be called natural it´s doing
          > nothing and leting
          > nature to do the work. When harvest is done in the
          > garden, after
          > working a lot and using a lot of intellect, people
          > get pride by its
          > size and shape, but that sensation of being proud is
          > just because
          > thinking that who produced that its the self, but
          > when instead is
          > naturally grown and is harvested, inmediatly we can
          > feel an
          > enormous joy because we undersdtand that nature is
          > our mother, and
          > she is who is giving us that gift.The real problem
          > in the world is
          > because we think that our intellect will sustain us
          > despite the
          > destruction that we are doing to nature.
          > Other terrible problem is the false value that
          > everyone give to the
          > material things. These are some of the problems that
          > are making this
          > world a hell. Thats what is happening here in
          > Ecuador; for centuries
          > people lived just of their small lands growing corn,
          > beens, squash,
          > pumpkin, potaotoes, quinua, and a lot of wild
          > vegetables and fruits;
          > but with the arrival of technologies 30 years ago to
          > "improve"
          > agriculture all the native species of grains,
          > vegetables and fruits
          > dissapear, as the ancient methods to grow them .Now
          > the situation is
          > worst ,we are close to play with fire because the
          > goverment wants to
          > make a kind of comercial interchange of products and
          > services with
          > the US, so now it will be free the use of GMO´s
          > seeds, now the poor
          > peasents will be slaves of big chemical companies.
          > Bioterrorism will
          > be aproved because all the traditional knoledge
          > about using the
          > medicinal herbs and biodiversity will be robbed of
          > the native people
          > with the owner rights and intellectual property.Our
          > society will be
          > polarized, a few wealthy, and a lot of poor
          > people.The worst thing
          > is that nobody knows what is gonna happen with this
          > trade; Peru and
          > Colombia already sign this trade. All this
          > monopolization created by
          > the Us is because their natural resources as water,
          > oil, clean air,
          > biodiversity are dissapearing, so for not falling
          > down they need new
          > places to destroy.How are the small peasants gonna
          > compete with
          > their few products against products that the US
          > export with subcides
          > as weat, corn, rice, soybeans. There has been like
          > two weeks of
          > strikes against the sign of this trade, but the
          > people who is
          > manifesting might not achieve anything, allways the
          > ambition and the
          > power win over the dreams of the people of a equal
          > and better
          > society.
          > I am just writing this so all of the people of the
          > group who are in
          > the US know whats going on, and whats doing the
          > goverment, we might
          > not be able to do anything, maybe the only thing its
          > to live a
          > simple and natural life while the world it´s wildly
          > running towards
          > destruction.
          >
          > Cheers
          > Miguel
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          ________________________________________________________________________
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • Gloria C. Baikauskas
          The danger is not the US....it is the corporations that have so many nations in their pockets due to bribes and incentives. Monsanto s GMO crops are not being
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 25, 2006
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            The danger is not the US....it is the corporations that have so many
            nations in their pockets due to bribes and incentives. Monsanto's
            GMO crops are not being accepted in Europe, nor most of Asia. It is
            corruption at the highest levels of government in both the US, and
            your country that has caused this.

            I mean, gee.....Monsanto has applied in the US...and more than 20
            other countries for the patent on pigs....as if they invented them.

            The world is fighting a war it may not be aware is being fought. It
            is one in which the end goal is profit...not health....nor survival.
            Daily we see reports of nightmares caused by the GMO crops. Did you
            see the recent one discussing the DNA mutations in mice/rats, as well
            as piglets from eating soy that was genetically mutated with RoundUP
            spliced into it? The real alarm is that each time the scientists
            checked the DNA in the same subjects it was continuing to mutate
            again and again. There is some data now in in human infants with
            brain seizures from it. Who knows how far it will reach.....

            Even in the US we fight the GMO battle as best we can. Big money has
            more power than we do singly...but if your countrymen continue
            fighting/demonstrating...maybe it will win against the big money
            pockets of Monsanto and others.

            I must admit I was not aware of this. It horrifies me. Worse it
            saddens me to be included in your fury/anguish because I am a US
            citizen.

            I hope you win this fight.

            Gloria
          • Andrew E Fister
            Absolutely correct Gloria The danger is not the US at least not all Americans are the problem. The problem, as I see it, is the so-called spreading of
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 26, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Absolutely correct Gloria "The danger is not the US" at least not 'all'
              Americans are the problem. The problem, as I see it, is the so-called
              spreading of democracy, free trade, global economics, etc. The American
              Way and the 'majority' of its population as it stands today, does support
              and drive all of this. Some directly, but mostly it is the standard
              American value system, culture and lifestyle, that keeps all this heading
              in the unnatural direction. The problem is within and the leaders and
              citizens in other countries who are lured into it are not doing their
              citizens any favors, to put it mildly.

              How does this relate to this FF list? Natural farming is based on
              recognizing and following Natural Law. What we call modern developed
              countries like the U.S., most of the E.U and other "global economies" are
              blatantly in violation of Natural Law. If you look at what a society
              eats, you will know what they value.

              On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:58:31 -0000 "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
              <gcb49@...> writes:
              The danger is not the US....it is the corporations that have so many
              nations in their pockets due to bribes and incentives. Monsanto's
              GMO crops are not being accepted in Europe, nor most of Asia. It is
              corruption at the highest levels of government in both the US, and
              your country that has caused this.

              I mean, gee.....Monsanto has applied in the US...and more than 20
              other countries for the patent on pigs....as if they invented them.

              The world is fighting a war it may not be aware is being fought. It
              is one in which the end goal is profit...not health....nor survival.
              Daily we see reports of nightmares caused by the GMO crops. Did you
              see the recent one discussing the DNA mutations in mice/rats, as well
              as piglets from eating soy that was genetically mutated with RoundUP
              spliced into it? The real alarm is that each time the scientists
              checked the DNA in the same subjects it was continuing to mutate
              again and again. There is some data now in in human infants with
              brain seizures from it. Who knows how far it will reach.....

              Even in the US we fight the GMO battle as best we can. Big money has
              more power than we do singly...but if your countrymen continue
              fighting/demonstrating...maybe it will win against the big money
              pockets of Monsanto and others.

              I must admit I was not aware of this. It horrifies me. Worse it
              saddens me to be included in your fury/anguish because I am a US
              citizen.

              I hope you win this fight.

              Gloria







              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Partha Biswas
              Dear all,i have just completed my visit at A.P.Chandrasekhars organic farm and Mr.Ramchandras natural farm at karnataka state of india.88 years old
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 26, 2006
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                Dear all,i have just completed my visit at
                A.P.Chandrasekhars organic farm and Mr.Ramchandras
                natural farm at karnataka state of india.88 years old
                Mr.Ramachandra Rao is living upon this earth in that
                much happiness and peace with his 2 acres of land
                which gives only Rs.2000 of monthly income that even a
                person ownes 100 acres of land ,i am sure cannot
                get.He is our indian sage,following the 10000 years
                old tradition which we are fast forgetting,that is to
                live completely with nature.And the glow i have
                experienced in the face of Mr.Ramachandra is can be
                only with the man of all pervading love for the living
                kingdom of planet earth.Does anybody know the ph. No.
                and address of shri pratap AGARWAL of bangalore?Please
                help me to find him as i shall be visiting bangalore
                as my last lap of journey.Thanks all.
                --- fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                <aefister@...> wrote:
                > Absolutely correct Gloria "The danger is not the US"
                at least not 'all'
                > Americans are the problem. The problem, as I see it,
                is the so-called
                > spreading of democracy, free trade, global
                economics, etc. The American
                > Way and the 'majority' of its population as it
                stands today, does support
                > and drive all of this. Some directly, but mostly it
                is the standard
                > American value system, culture and lifestyle, that
                keeps all this heading
                > in the unnatural direction. The problem is within
                and the leaders and
                > citizens in other countries who are lured into it
                are not doing their
                > citizens any favors, to put it mildly.
                >
                > How does this relate to this FF list? Natural
                farming is based on
                > recognizing and following Natural Law. What we call
                modern developed
                > countries like the U.S., most of the E.U and other
                "global economies" are
                > blatantly in violation of Natural Law. If you look
                at what a society
                > eats, you will know what they value.
                >
                > On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:58:31 -0000 "Gloria C.
                Baikauskas"
                > <gcb49@...> writes:
                > The danger is not the US....it is the corporations
                that have so many
                > nations in their pockets due to bribes and
                incentives. Monsanto's
                > GMO crops are not being accepted in Europe, nor most
                of Asia. It is
                > corruption at the highest levels of government in
                both the US, and
                > your country that has caused this.
                >
                > I mean, gee.....Monsanto has applied in the US...and
                more than 20
                > other countries for the patent on pigs....as if they
                invented them.
                >
                > The world is fighting a war it may not be aware is
                being fought. It
                > is one in which the end goal is profit...not
                health....nor survival.
                > Daily we see reports of nightmares caused by the GMO
                crops. Did you
                > see the recent one discussing the DNA mutations in
                mice/rats, as well
                > as piglets from eating soy that was genetically
                mutated with RoundUP
                > spliced into it? The real alarm is that each time
                the scientists
                > checked the DNA in the same subjects it was
                continuing to mutate
                > again and again. There is some data now in in human
                infants with
                > brain seizures from it. Who knows how far it will
                reach.....
                >
                > Even in the US we fight the GMO battle as best we
                can. Big money has
                > more power than we do singly...but if your
                countrymen continue
                > fighting/demonstrating...maybe it will win against
                the big money
                > pockets of Monsanto and others.
                >
                > I must admit I was not aware of this. It horrifies
                me. Worse it
                > saddens me to be included in your fury/anguish
                because I am a US
                > citizen.
                >
                > I hope you win this fight.
                >
                > Gloria
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                Terms of Service.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                removed]
                >
                >
                >


                Partha Biswas, National Park, PO-Naihati, Dt.-N.24 Pargs,743165,West Bengal ,India.Ph.-09231539115





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              • Armando Pasquali
                ... I live in Italy and organic farming is usually presented by newspapers and Tv programs as a good method for health and environment, but very expensive,
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 27, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  > rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                  > is an organic future really sustainable ?
                  > Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better
                  > for the environment than that produced with non organic methods.
                  >

                  I live in Italy and organic farming is usually presented by newspapers and
                  Tv programs as a good method for health and environment, but very expensive,
                  that is for rich people, and scarcely productive, that it not suitable for
                  developing countries.

                  So all are content, organic growers and chemical and mechanical industries.

                  The problem arise if anyone will to support organic farming as a universal
                  method, for all poeple and countries.

                  In this case, insults are the usual reaction by all media and opinion
                  makers.

                  Every technological transformation produces winners and losers.

                  But chemical and mechanical industries don't want to lose.

                  Armando Pasquali


                  Armando Pasquali

                  Sesto San Giovanni

                  Milan

                  Italy
                • torskel87
                  Hi I would like to apologize about some expressions, I didn´t have fury intentions, the problem is that i don´t have a good english, so some phrases didn´t
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 27, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi

                    I would like to apologize about some expressions, I didn´t have fury
                    intentions, the problem is that i don´t have a good english, so some
                    phrases didn´t mean what I feel or what I think; that letter wasn´t
                    against US people, it was against the corruption and ambition behind
                    the goverments (from my country too)and corporations, I wrote so you
                    can know what is going on.And also for creating a discussion, and many
                    ideas can arise to do something against that problem.
                    Now I would like better speak about natural farming, in relation with
                    the seedballs I´ve tried to make them many times, what I´ve seen is
                    that they work really good for sowing grains like quinua,amaranth,
                    kiwincha, weat, rye, flax seeds, clover and some kind of vegetables,
                    but not for all of them , especially varities that are use to a lot of
                    care such as lettuce, tomatoes, pepper,broculi, etc. But i haven´t had
                    experience with regreening bare lands, If somebody knows about how to
                    inoculate micorrizal and other beneficial microrganisms in the
                    seedballs for sowing trees and and shrubs will be helpfull.
                    I am trying to regreen a big grassland that used to be a forest,
                    close to this land there is a native forest, so what about just
                    scattering the organic matter of the same forest that is full of seeds
                    and microorganisms, instead making seedballs, because there is not
                    clay around.
                  • Yuva Senthil Kumar. Ramalingam
                    Do you thing it s fault of US or other country or by the people of the former countries, yes it s consumers fault we have make consumers aware of all these and
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 27, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Do you thing it's fault of US or other country or by the people of the former countries, yes it's consumers fault we have make consumers aware of all these and automatically producers can change their views.

                      this is IT era and we have to utilize to communicate allover the world and make a consumer movement to find the solution. The is also unsustainable and so i emphasize this. Any natural force of universe and nature and the human caused environmental defects will put an end to IT.

                      A consumer movement is the need of the hour.

                      R.yuva senthil kumar .Student HorticultureTNAU, India

                      torskel87 <torskel87@...> wrote: Hi everyone
                      I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the
                      present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to
                      produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of oil based energy
                      and organic matter from other places, so in wich way is it
                      sustainable???, the only way that an agricultural method can be
                      sustainable, and can be called natural it´s doing nothing and leting
                      nature to do the work. When harvest is done in the garden, after
                      working a lot and using a lot of intellect, people get pride by its
                      size and shape, but that sensation of being proud is just because
                      thinking that who produced that its the self, but when instead is
                      naturally grown and is harvested, inmediatly we can feel an
                      enormous joy because we undersdtand that nature is our mother, and
                      she is who is giving us that gift.The real problem in the world is
                      because we think that our intellect will sustain us despite the
                      destruction that we are doing to nature.
                      Other terrible problem is the false value that everyone give to the
                      material things. These are some of the problems that are making this
                      world a hell. Thats what is happening here in Ecuador; for centuries
                      people lived just of their small lands growing corn, beens, squash,
                      pumpkin, potaotoes, quinua, and a lot of wild vegetables and fruits;
                      but with the arrival of technologies 30 years ago to "improve"
                      agriculture all the native species of grains, vegetables and fruits
                      dissapear, as the ancient methods to grow them .Now the situation is
                      worst ,we are close to play with fire because the goverment wants to
                      make a kind of comercial interchange of products and services with
                      the US, so now it will be free the use of GMO´s seeds, now the poor
                      peasents will be slaves of big chemical companies. Bioterrorism will
                      be aproved because all the traditional knoledge about using the
                      medicinal herbs and biodiversity will be robbed of the native people
                      with the owner rights and intellectual property.Our society will be
                      polarized, a few wealthy, and a lot of poor people.The worst thing
                      is that nobody knows what is gonna happen with this trade; Peru and
                      Colombia already sign this trade. All this monopolization created by
                      the Us is because their natural resources as water, oil, clean air,
                      biodiversity are dissapearing, so for not falling down they need new
                      places to destroy.How are the small peasants gonna compete with
                      their few products against products that the US export with subcides
                      as weat, corn, rice, soybeans. There has been like two weeks of
                      strikes against the sign of this trade, but the people who is
                      manifesting might not achieve anything, allways the ambition and the
                      power win over the dreams of the people of a equal and better
                      society.
                      I am just writing this so all of the people of the group who are in
                      the US know whats going on, and whats doing the goverment, we might
                      not be able to do anything, maybe the only thing its to live a
                      simple and natural life while the world it´s wildly running towards
                      destruction.

                      Cheers
                      Miguel








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                    • pollywog
                      My own thought on spreading soil and natural mulch from the forest is, it sounds like a fine way to accomplish what you are wanting to do. By regreening ,
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 29, 2006
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                        My own thought on spreading soil and natural mulch from the forest is, it sounds like a
                        fine way to accomplish what you are wanting to do. By "regreening", are you talking about
                        re estabishing forest to what is now grassland? That is the impression I got as I read your
                        post.
                        The only concern I would have about your proposed method, is to be sure you are
                        conservative in your takings from the forest. As with any kind of foraging or wildcrafting
                        (and essentially, I see this as foraging the food for your land), you want to be sure not to
                        take at the expense of your source.

                        There would be the needed soil life, and I would imagine plenty of seeds for each stage of
                        forest establishment. I don't know, but it might be that your land will first need the good
                        pioneer plants to run their course before the forest begins to really resemble the "original"
                        one you see close by. But, those pioneer plants and shrubs, trees and vines, will most
                        perfectly prepare the land for the mature ecosystem to come.

                        I must also apologize, btw, about the reply I gave you to your original post. It is such a
                        frustrating battle, and even though we have seen this coming, and tried our best to fight
                        it, we are outgunned on many levels. Monsanto et.al. have spent millions of dollars on
                        lobbying, even forming their own PR company in Washington DC, which spends close to a
                        billion dollars annually on getting the conglomerates' agendas packaged up in nice
                        "beneficial" gift boxes. They directly affect our policies and protocols in trade agreements.
                        The controlling members of this establishment include corporations that, in the "real"
                        world, are competitors. This is a fine tradition begun over a century ago, most notably and
                        insidiously by Rockefeller, of Standard Oil fame.

                        We can see the the snakes on Medusa's head growing in size and number, and it seems at
                        times that we are almost vilified, considered guilty by association and common
                        countryhood of the snakes. At times it feels that we are so hated, for things we are trying
                        to fight but are instead considered part of. It's scary, frustrating, and, if I am to be fully
                        honest, lonely. I know. Silly to feel such emotions. But, there we are.

                        So, I had a knee-jerk, defensive reaction to you, even though you were not pointing to us
                        citizens directly. Our language differences must also play a huge part. I know that when I
                        used the translator for some things on my Sherlock application, I could no more make
                        sense of the english translation than I could the original language. Argh!

                        If it helps, my post wasn't directed personally at you as such, it was more a general
                        expression of my frustration and fear. Both of those feelings are almost overwhelming at
                        times. It sounds angry, mostly because anger is a compound emotion- composed of fear
                        and love.

                        Anyway, if you have no clay available, I would think your use of the good forest organic
                        matter would be a good idea. I would imagine the savings in time, transport, and other
                        considerations involved would be a great help in your endeavor. Good luck to you! deb

                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "torskel87" <torskel87@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi
                        >
                        > I would like to apologize about some expressions, I didn´t have fury
                        > intentions, the problem is that i don´t have a good english, so some
                        > phrases didn´t mean what I feel or what I think; that letter wasn´t
                        > against US people, it was against the corruption and ambition behind
                        > the goverments (from my country too)and corporations, I wrote so you
                        > can know what is going on.And also for creating a discussion, and many
                        > ideas can arise to do something against that problem.
                        > Now I would like better speak about natural farming, in relation with
                        > the seedballs I´ve tried to make them many times, what I´ve seen is
                        > that they work really good for sowing grains like quinua,amaranth,
                        > kiwincha, weat, rye, flax seeds, clover and some kind of vegetables,
                        > but not for all of them , especially varities that are use to a lot of
                        > care such as lettuce, tomatoes, pepper,broculi, etc. But i haven´t had
                        > experience with regreening bare lands, If somebody knows about how to
                        > inoculate micorrizal and other beneficial microrganisms in the
                        > seedballs for sowing trees and and shrubs will be helpfull.
                        > I am trying to regreen a big grassland that used to be a forest,
                        > close to this land there is a native forest, so what about just
                        > scattering the organic matter of the same forest that is full of seeds
                        > and microorganisms, instead making seedballs, because there is not
                        > clay around.
                        >
                      • sbecc@berkshire.net
                        Whenever I am walking on the land I think about scattering seedballs as I go. My hope is that one day some enterprising capitalist will manufacture and
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 4, 2008
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                          Whenever I am walking on the land I think about scattering seedballs as I
                          go. My hope is that one day some enterprising capitalist will manufacture
                          and distribute seedballs the same way regular seeds are distributed. Then
                          people who are always wondering "What can I do in my life to reconnect
                          with the earth? How can I make a difference and stop the destruction of
                          the Mother in my name?" will have an easy and fun and radical way to
                          change the earth - by scattering seedballs everywhere. Also, anyone who
                          wanted to follow Fukuoka on their own land would have a
                          n easy way to start.
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