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ORGANIC FARMING

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  • rajutitus lal
    is an organic future really sustainable ? Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better for the environment than that produced
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 22, 2006
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      is an organic future really sustainable ?
      Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better for the environment than that produced with non organic methods.

      Organic sales are increasing at 20 percent per year and policymakers are directing taxpayer money towards organic. For example,Sen Hillary Clinton, D-N,Y, recently announced a program to help dairy farmers in her state transition to organic,and Norway set a goal to get 10 percent of the managed area be organic food production,it is
      important to realize that some claims of organic are often ignored.

      First, there is no consensus about health claims of organic food.

      According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, studies have shown no clear,consistent results. According to the USDA, the organic label
      does not mean that organic food is superior, Safer or healthier than conventional food is.

      We are blessed with a very safe food supply, although,admittedly, many of us eat unhealthily The latter is not because of non organic food, but because we eat too much fat, sugar and carbohydrates,and too few vegetables and fruits.

      Second, organic farming has some serious environmental challenges.

      Organic producers use intensive tillage for soil preparation and and weed control .Plowing favors run off and erosion. It oxidize soil organic matter and destroys soil aggregates.

      Tillage also harmful to many soil organism such as earth worms,No-till system have been developed where soil is protected by a mulch,reducing erosion and run off .This increasingly popular practice is now used on 23 percent of U.S. crop land.

      Living vegetation is killed with an herbicide and crop are planted directly into a mulch with no-till planter. Soil organic matter is preserved, surface aggregation is improved, and soil organism such as earthworms are favored. Without herbicide, continuous no-till farming is virtually impossible.

      Organic farmers rely primarily on compost manure or green manure in crops to supply fertility. The nutrients in crops to supply soil fertility. The nutrients in these organic sources typically do not match crop demands .So it is easy over apply nutrients such as phosphorus,while nitrogen needs are just barely met.

      When cover crops or manure are plowed down ,nitrogen can be released rapidly .Unfortunately no crops is present to take these nutrients up immediately

      Hence the potential for significant nutrient losses is organic farming .Commercial fertilizer could help complement organic sources of fertility , reducing the opportunity for losses to the environment ,but these products are not allowed in organic farming is however, how to produce enough affordable food without sacrificing natural ecosystem.

      The world population has doubled since 1960,now exceeding 6 billion, and expected to reach 9 billion in 2050. Despite fears in 1970s of wide spread famine, the average world citizen (even in developing countries) eat more now than in the 1960s.

      According to the F.A.O., food production out placed population growth and and the price
      of food decreased 40 percent in real terms between 1960 and 1999, seventy eight of the increased in food production was due to increased production per acer of land made possible by the use of improved crop varieties, chemical fertilizer, crop protectant and improved machinery.

      Although competitive yields are possible with organic producer , a major production of the world’s land would have to be devoted to green manure crops to fix nitrogen. Expansion of cropland comes at the expense of natural habitat and is some times impossible.

      Recently members of Chinese Academy of science expressed their concern about an organic food strategy for china.

      They pointed out the china produces enough food for 21 percent of the population on 9 percent of the world’s cultivated land. This has only been possible because 75 percent of
      crop nutrients are now supplied by chemical fertilizer, compared with only 22percent in 1965.

      If china were to adopt organic practices on a large scale, crop land would have to be expanded which is no option in land scares in china .

      Health promises organic food remain elusive ,whereas it has significant environmental challenges ,including its reliance on intensive tillage and organic nutrients sources .The need to expand , crop land means less natural habitat ,and rising food costs present a problem for the world;s urban poor.

      These issues needs to be the seriously considered before we become to enamored with organic.


      Sjoerd W. Duiker assistant professor of soil management at Penn State.
      CENTREDAILY.com


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    • Sergio Montinola
      Dear Professor Duiker, These concerns have been answered by Masanabu Fukuoka in his book on the Natural Way of Farming Hope you get a copy of his book?
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 22, 2006
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        Dear Professor Duiker,

        These concerns have been answered by Masanabu Fukuoka in his book on the "Natural Way of Farming"

        Hope you get a copy of his book?

        Sergio J> Montinola




        rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
        is an organic future really sustainable ?
        Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better for the environment than that produced with non organic methods.

        Organic sales are increasing at 20 percent per year and policymakers are directing taxpayer money towards organic. For example,Sen Hillary Clinton, D-N,Y, recently announced a program to help dairy farmers in her state transition to organic,and Norway set a goal to get 10 percent of the managed area be organic food production,it is
        important to realize that some claims of organic are often ignored.

        First, there is no consensus about health claims of organic food.

        According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, studies have shown no clear,consistent results. According to the USDA, the organic label
        does not mean that organic food is superior, Safer or healthier than conventional food is.

        We are blessed with a very safe food supply, although,admittedly, many of us eat unhealthily The latter is not because of non organic food, but because we eat too much fat, sugar and carbohydrates,and too few vegetables and fruits.

        Second, organic farming has some serious environmental challenges.

        Organic producers use intensive tillage for soil preparation and and weed control .Plowing favors run off and erosion. It oxidize soil organic matter and destroys soil aggregates.

        Tillage also harmful to many soil organism such as earth worms,No-till system have been developed where soil is protected by a mulch,reducing erosion and run off .This increasingly popular practice is now used on 23 percent of U.S. crop land.

        Living vegetation is killed with an herbicide and crop are planted directly into a mulch with no-till planter. Soil organic matter is preserved, surface aggregation is improved, and soil organism such as earthworms are favored. Without herbicide, continuous no-till farming is virtually impossible.

        Organic farmers rely primarily on compost manure or green manure in crops to supply fertility. The nutrients in crops to supply soil fertility. The nutrients in these organic sources typically do not match crop demands .So it is easy over apply nutrients such as phosphorus,while nitrogen needs are just barely met.

        When cover crops or manure are plowed down ,nitrogen can be released rapidly .Unfortunately no crops is present to take these nutrients up immediately

        Hence the potential for significant nutrient losses is organic farming .Commercial fertilizer could help complement organic sources of fertility , reducing the opportunity for losses to the environment ,but these products are not allowed in organic farming is however, how to produce enough affordable food without sacrificing natural ecosystem.

        The world population has doubled since 1960,now exceeding 6 billion, and expected to reach 9 billion in 2050. Despite fears in 1970s of wide spread famine, the average world citizen (even in developing countries) eat more now than in the 1960s.

        According to the F.A.O., food production out placed population growth and and the price
        of food decreased 40 percent in real terms between 1960 and 1999, seventy eight of the increased in food production was due to increased production per acer of land made possible by the use of improved crop varieties, chemical fertilizer, crop protectant and improved machinery.

        Although competitive yields are possible with organic producer , a major production of the world’s land would have to be devoted to green manure crops to fix nitrogen. Expansion of cropland comes at the expense of natural habitat and is some times impossible.

        Recently members of Chinese Academy of science expressed their concern about an organic food strategy for china.

        They pointed out the china produces enough food for 21 percent of the population on 9 percent of the world’s cultivated land. This has only been possible because 75 percent of
        crop nutrients are now supplied by chemical fertilizer, compared with only 22percent in 1965.

        If china were to adopt organic practices on a large scale, crop land would have to be expanded which is no option in land scares in china .

        Health promises organic food remain elusive ,whereas it has significant environmental challenges ,including its reliance on intensive tillage and organic nutrients sources .The need to expand , crop land means less natural habitat ,and rising food costs present a problem for the world;s urban poor.

        These issues needs to be the seriously considered before we become to enamored with organic.


        Sjoerd W. Duiker assistant professor of soil management at Penn State.
        CENTREDAILY.com


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      • francisco cotejo
        Am a beginner organic farmer and used both zero tillage and conventional land preparation methods. Just recently, almost daily heavy rains allowed me to plant
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 22, 2006
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          Am a beginner organic farmer and used both zero tillage and conventional land preparation methods. Just recently, almost daily heavy rains allowed me to plant and harvest pechay on zero tillage but planting of eggplant was delayed in adjacent conventional tillage area. Have to grow another set of eggplant seedlings as the ones originally intended for planting were already overgrown.

          Just harvested pechay yields on zero tillage were just about the same as the previous crop on conventional tillage.

          Organic farming need not use conventional tillage. It can be also done on zero or minimal tillage. In fact, considering our climatic conditions, I believe it will be better for me to concentrate on zero and minimal tillage systems.

          Francisco R. Cotejo Jr.

          rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
          is an organic future really sustainable ?
          Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better for the environment than that produced with non organic methods.

          Organic sales are increasing at 20 percent per year and policymakers are directing taxpayer money towards organic. For example,Sen Hillary Clinton, D-N,Y, recently announced a program to help dairy farmers in her state transition to organic,and Norway set a goal to get 10 percent of the managed area be organic food production,it is
          important to realize that some claims of organic are often ignored.

          First, there is no consensus about health claims of organic food.

          According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, studies have shown no clear,consistent results. According to the USDA, the organic label
          does not mean that organic food is superior, Safer or healthier than conventional food is.

          We are blessed with a very safe food supply, although,admittedly, many of us eat unhealthily The latter is not because of non organic food, but because we eat too much fat, sugar and carbohydrates,and too few vegetables and fruits.

          Second, organic farming has some serious environmental challenges.

          Organic producers use intensive tillage for soil preparation and and weed control .Plowing favors run off and erosion. It oxidize soil organic matter and destroys soil aggregates.

          Tillage also harmful to many soil organism such as earth worms,No-till system have been developed where soil is protected by a mulch,reducing erosion and run off .This increasingly popular practice is now used on 23 percent of U.S. crop land.

          Living vegetation is killed with an herbicide and crop are planted directly into a mulch with no-till planter. Soil organic matter is preserved, surface aggregation is improved, and soil organism such as earthworms are favored. Without herbicide, continuous no-till farming is virtually impossible.

          Organic farmers rely primarily on compost manure or green manure in crops to supply fertility. The nutrients in crops to supply soil fertility. The nutrients in these organic sources typically do not match crop demands .So it is easy over apply nutrients such as phosphorus,while nitrogen needs are just barely met.

          When cover crops or manure are plowed down ,nitrogen can be released rapidly .Unfortunately no crops is present to take these nutrients up immediately

          Hence the potential for significant nutrient losses is organic farming .Commercial fertilizer could help complement organic sources of fertility , reducing the opportunity for losses to the environment ,but these products are not allowed in organic farming is however, how to produce enough affordable food without sacrificing natural ecosystem.

          The world population has doubled since 1960,now exceeding 6 billion, and expected to reach 9 billion in 2050. Despite fears in 1970s of wide spread famine, the average world citizen (even in developing countries) eat more now than in the 1960s.

          According to the F.A.O., food production out placed population growth and and the price
          of food decreased 40 percent in real terms between 1960 and 1999, seventy eight of the increased in food production was due to increased production per acer of land made possible by the use of improved crop varieties, chemical fertilizer, crop protectant and improved machinery.

          Although competitive yields are possible with organic producer , a major production of the world’s land would have to be devoted to green manure crops to fix nitrogen. Expansion of cropland comes at the expense of natural habitat and is some times impossible.

          Recently members of Chinese Academy of science expressed their concern about an organic food strategy for china.

          They pointed out the china produces enough food for 21 percent of the population on 9 percent of the world’s cultivated land. This has only been possible because 75 percent of
          crop nutrients are now supplied by chemical fertilizer, compared with only 22percent in 1965.

          If china were to adopt organic practices on a large scale, crop land would have to be expanded which is no option in land scares in china .

          Health promises organic food remain elusive ,whereas it has significant environmental challenges ,including its reliance on intensive tillage and organic nutrients sources .The need to expand , crop land means less natural habitat ,and rising food costs present a problem for the world;s urban poor.

          These issues needs to be the seriously considered before we become to enamored with organic.


          Sjoerd W. Duiker assistant professor of soil management at Penn State.
          CENTREDAILY.com


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        • Yuva Senthil Kumar. Ramalingam
          It s a big fact that you have elaborated. The truth always bitters The human race is going to face a big devastation which is inevitable The present day
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 23, 2006
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            It's a big fact that you have elaborated.

            The truth always bitters

            The human race is going to face a big devastation which is inevitable

            The present day awareness is not a complete solution but it will save some species in the world and save the wholistic knowledge to the next generation.

            This seems to be pessimistic for all kind of persons.

            we have to continue the stratagies to make the sustainable pockets throughout the world.

            let as see what Mother nature is having with her in her mind?

            With regards,

            R.Yuva senthil kumar, Tamil Nadu state, India

            rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
            is an organic future really sustainable ?
            Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better for the environment than that produced with non organic methods.

            Organic sales are increasing at 20 percent per year and policymakers are directing taxpayer money towards organic. For example,Sen Hillary Clinton, D-N,Y, recently announced a program to help dairy farmers in her state transition to organic,and Norway set a goal to get 10 percent of the managed area be organic food production,it is
            important to realize that some claims of organic are often ignored.

            First, there is no consensus about health claims of organic food.

            According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, studies have shown no clear,consistent results. According to the USDA, the organic label
            does not mean that organic food is superior, Safer or healthier than conventional food is.

            We are blessed with a very safe food supply, although,admittedly, many of us eat unhealthily The latter is not because of non organic food, but because we eat too much fat, sugar and carbohydrates,and too few vegetables and fruits.

            Second, organic farming has some serious environmental challenges.

            Organic producers use intensive tillage for soil preparation and and weed control .Plowing favors run off and erosion. It oxidize soil organic matter and destroys soil aggregates.

            Tillage also harmful to many soil organism such as earth worms,No-till system have been developed where soil is protected by a mulch,reducing erosion and run off .This increasingly popular practice is now used on 23 percent of U.S. crop land.

            Living vegetation is killed with an herbicide and crop are planted directly into a mulch with no-till planter. Soil organic matter is preserved, surface aggregation is improved, and soil organism such as earthworms are favored. Without herbicide, continuous no-till farming is virtually impossible.

            Organic farmers rely primarily on compost manure or green manure in crops to supply fertility. The nutrients in crops to supply soil fertility. The nutrients in these organic sources typically do not match crop demands .So it is easy over apply nutrients such as phosphorus,while nitrogen needs are just barely met.

            When cover crops or manure are plowed down ,nitrogen can be released rapidly .Unfortunately no crops is present to take these nutrients up immediately

            Hence the potential for significant nutrient losses is organic farming .Commercial fertilizer could help complement organic sources of fertility , reducing the opportunity for losses to the environment ,but these products are not allowed in organic farming is however, how to produce enough affordable food without sacrificing natural ecosystem.

            The world population has doubled since 1960,now exceeding 6 billion, and expected to reach 9 billion in 2050. Despite fears in 1970s of wide spread famine, the average world citizen (even in developing countries) eat more now than in the 1960s.

            According to the F.A.O., food production out placed population growth and and the price
            of food decreased 40 percent in real terms between 1960 and 1999, seventy eight of the increased in food production was due to increased production per acer of land made possible by the use of improved crop varieties, chemical fertilizer, crop protectant and improved machinery.

            Although competitive yields are possible with organic producer , a major production of the world’s land would have to be devoted to green manure crops to fix nitrogen. Expansion of cropland comes at the expense of natural habitat and is some times impossible.

            Recently members of Chinese Academy of science expressed their concern about an organic food strategy for china.

            They pointed out the china produces enough food for 21 percent of the population on 9 percent of the world’s cultivated land. This has only been possible because 75 percent of
            crop nutrients are now supplied by chemical fertilizer, compared with only 22percent in 1965.

            If china were to adopt organic practices on a large scale, crop land would have to be expanded which is no option in land scares in china .

            Health promises organic food remain elusive ,whereas it has significant environmental challenges ,including its reliance on intensive tillage and organic nutrients sources .The need to expand , crop land means less natural habitat ,and rising food costs present a problem for the world;s urban poor.

            These issues needs to be the seriously considered before we become to enamored with organic.


            Sjoerd W. Duiker assistant professor of soil management at Penn State.
            CENTREDAILY.com


            ---------------------------------
            Yahoo! Mail
            Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

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            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          • torskel87
            Hi everyone I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to produce more
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 24, 2006
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              Hi everyone
              I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the
              present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to
              produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of oil based energy
              and organic matter from other places, so in wich way is it
              sustainable???, the only way that an agricultural method can be
              sustainable, and can be called natural it´s doing nothing and leting
              nature to do the work. When harvest is done in the garden, after
              working a lot and using a lot of intellect, people get pride by its
              size and shape, but that sensation of being proud is just because
              thinking that who produced that its the self, but when instead is
              naturally grown and is harvested, inmediatly we can feel an
              enormous joy because we undersdtand that nature is our mother, and
              she is who is giving us that gift.The real problem in the world is
              because we think that our intellect will sustain us despite the
              destruction that we are doing to nature.
              Other terrible problem is the false value that everyone give to the
              material things. These are some of the problems that are making this
              world a hell. Thats what is happening here in Ecuador; for centuries
              people lived just of their small lands growing corn, beens, squash,
              pumpkin, potaotoes, quinua, and a lot of wild vegetables and fruits;
              but with the arrival of technologies 30 years ago to "improve"
              agriculture all the native species of grains, vegetables and fruits
              dissapear, as the ancient methods to grow them .Now the situation is
              worst ,we are close to play with fire because the goverment wants to
              make a kind of comercial interchange of products and services with
              the US, so now it will be free the use of GMO´s seeds, now the poor
              peasents will be slaves of big chemical companies. Bioterrorism will
              be aproved because all the traditional knoledge about using the
              medicinal herbs and biodiversity will be robbed of the native people
              with the owner rights and intellectual property.Our society will be
              polarized, a few wealthy, and a lot of poor people.The worst thing
              is that nobody knows what is gonna happen with this trade; Peru and
              Colombia already sign this trade. All this monopolization created by
              the Us is because their natural resources as water, oil, clean air,
              biodiversity are dissapearing, so for not falling down they need new
              places to destroy.How are the small peasants gonna compete with
              their few products against products that the US export with subcides
              as weat, corn, rice, soybeans. There has been like two weeks of
              strikes against the sign of this trade, but the people who is
              manifesting might not achieve anything, allways the ambition and the
              power win over the dreams of the people of a equal and better
              society.
              I am just writing this so all of the people of the group who are in
              the US know whats going on, and whats doing the goverment, we might
              not be able to do anything, maybe the only thing its to live a
              simple and natural life while the world it´s wildly running towards
              destruction.

              Cheers
              Miguel
            • rorim
              ... Hi group I mostly read and not post however I d like to address this from my own perspective. I agree that organic in big AG is not the ideal but it is a
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 25, 2006
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                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "torskel87" <torskel87@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi everyone
                > I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the
                > present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to
                > produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of oil based energy
                > and organic matter from other places, so in wich way is it
                > sustainable???, >
                > Cheers
                > Miguel
                >
                Hi group
                I mostly read and not post however I'd like to address this from my
                own perspective.
                I agree that organic in big AG is not the ideal but it is a step in a
                better direction. I personally would rather see the row croppers
                using organic methods as opposed to traditional methods involving
                synthetic fertilizers and chemical pesticides and fungicides. I
                would never equate it with sustainable agriculture but I do feel it
                is progress towards less reliance on chemicals. To me sustainable
                agriculture goes back to the old time farming where a family raised
                many crops, milk cow, some sheep, chickens for eggs and meat and a
                garden for vegetables. These diverse groups were able to sustain the
                farm without inputs from outside the farm making it more economical
                and healthier for the family and environment. just my observation.

                Rori
                Runamuk Farm
              • debi novice
                Your danger warnings are not lost on many of us. Especially in this particular group. I cannot speak for everyone, obviously, but I do live in the United
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 25, 2006
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                  Your danger warnings are not lost on many of us.
                  Especially in this particular group.

                  I cannot speak for everyone, obviously, but I do live
                  in the United States, and am concerned on a few levels
                  with what you speak of.

                  "Organic", in the U.S. now, is a joke. The government
                  took control of the label in the late 1990's, and
                  there is no root value in that designation since that
                  time. You are correct, when you speak of large
                  agri-corps taking over the organic realm here. I am
                  one of those having to fight the good fight, with
                  every possibility of nasty consequences. I still
                  believe there is a way for those of our bent to speak-
                  well and with appropriate power- if we maintain
                  diligence, integrity, and the good "minuteman"
                  attitude.

                  However, I must ask, why are you taking it for granted
                  we U.S. citizens are settling for the status quo? Have
                  you ignored the rest of our activities? Why would you
                  assume that those who need the enlightenment of your
                  post would be here, on FF? I'd think we are here
                  because we already have a clue. Considering the US
                  folk on this group live here in the states, and are
                  absolutely going against the wishes of our government,
                  perhaps we more of a clue of our reality than you, who
                  prosletize from elsewhere.

                  Are you willing to support us working on the inside,
                  trying to make a difference? Would you rather just
                  complain about us from a distance and put us all in
                  the same nursery plot with broad, simplistic,
                  characterizations and accusations? I'd like to think
                  many of us Stateside folk have a brain cell or two
                  left, and are already working- hard, if not always
                  publicly- to get the best practices viable. We know
                  more about the evil crap going on, because the gov
                  swallowed us first, then moved on to trade agreements.


                  We've lost children, land, homes, livelihoods. i'm
                  almost glad our country's abuses are finally becoming
                  known outside our borders. But: For you to claim us
                  ignorant, speaks less of you. Get your facts,
                  referents, history, and accusations straight, please.

                  You make many assumptions in your post, only a couple
                  do I feel are from your heart, rather than from a
                  propaganda base. Please, if you want to toss
                  accusations around: source, backup, and give
                  independent, reliable referents.

                  Are you truly, really, ready to own the full substance
                  of your words? Please, I hope so. But only if you do
                  understand the weight of your post. Us folk in the
                  states have to live the reality you allude to. deb



                  --- fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com wrote:

                  > There is 1 message in this issue.
                  >
                  > Topics in this digest:
                  >
                  > 1. danger
                  > From: "torskel87" <torskel87@...>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Message: 1
                  > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:28:50 -0000
                  > From: "torskel87" <torskel87@...>
                  > Subject: danger
                  >
                  > Hi everyone
                  > I think that organic farming is not in anyway a
                  > solution for the
                  > present ecological and human problems, is actually
                  > just a way to
                  > produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of
                  > oil based energy
                  > and organic matter from other places, so in wich way
                  > is it
                  > sustainable???, the only way that an agricultural
                  > method can be
                  > sustainable, and can be called natural it´s doing
                  > nothing and leting
                  > nature to do the work. When harvest is done in the
                  > garden, after
                  > working a lot and using a lot of intellect, people
                  > get pride by its
                  > size and shape, but that sensation of being proud is
                  > just because
                  > thinking that who produced that its the self, but
                  > when instead is
                  > naturally grown and is harvested, inmediatly we can
                  > feel an
                  > enormous joy because we undersdtand that nature is
                  > our mother, and
                  > she is who is giving us that gift.The real problem
                  > in the world is
                  > because we think that our intellect will sustain us
                  > despite the
                  > destruction that we are doing to nature.
                  > Other terrible problem is the false value that
                  > everyone give to the
                  > material things. These are some of the problems that
                  > are making this
                  > world a hell. Thats what is happening here in
                  > Ecuador; for centuries
                  > people lived just of their small lands growing corn,
                  > beens, squash,
                  > pumpkin, potaotoes, quinua, and a lot of wild
                  > vegetables and fruits;
                  > but with the arrival of technologies 30 years ago to
                  > "improve"
                  > agriculture all the native species of grains,
                  > vegetables and fruits
                  > dissapear, as the ancient methods to grow them .Now
                  > the situation is
                  > worst ,we are close to play with fire because the
                  > goverment wants to
                  > make a kind of comercial interchange of products and
                  > services with
                  > the US, so now it will be free the use of GMO´s
                  > seeds, now the poor
                  > peasents will be slaves of big chemical companies.
                  > Bioterrorism will
                  > be aproved because all the traditional knoledge
                  > about using the
                  > medicinal herbs and biodiversity will be robbed of
                  > the native people
                  > with the owner rights and intellectual property.Our
                  > society will be
                  > polarized, a few wealthy, and a lot of poor
                  > people.The worst thing
                  > is that nobody knows what is gonna happen with this
                  > trade; Peru and
                  > Colombia already sign this trade. All this
                  > monopolization created by
                  > the Us is because their natural resources as water,
                  > oil, clean air,
                  > biodiversity are dissapearing, so for not falling
                  > down they need new
                  > places to destroy.How are the small peasants gonna
                  > compete with
                  > their few products against products that the US
                  > export with subcides
                  > as weat, corn, rice, soybeans. There has been like
                  > two weeks of
                  > strikes against the sign of this trade, but the
                  > people who is
                  > manifesting might not achieve anything, allways the
                  > ambition and the
                  > power win over the dreams of the people of a equal
                  > and better
                  > society.
                  > I am just writing this so all of the people of the
                  > group who are in
                  > the US know whats going on, and whats doing the
                  > goverment, we might
                  > not be able to do anything, maybe the only thing its
                  > to live a
                  > simple and natural life while the world it´s wildly
                  > running towards
                  > destruction.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Miguel
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Gloria C. Baikauskas
                  The danger is not the US....it is the corporations that have so many nations in their pockets due to bribes and incentives. Monsanto s GMO crops are not being
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 25, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The danger is not the US....it is the corporations that have so many
                    nations in their pockets due to bribes and incentives. Monsanto's
                    GMO crops are not being accepted in Europe, nor most of Asia. It is
                    corruption at the highest levels of government in both the US, and
                    your country that has caused this.

                    I mean, gee.....Monsanto has applied in the US...and more than 20
                    other countries for the patent on pigs....as if they invented them.

                    The world is fighting a war it may not be aware is being fought. It
                    is one in which the end goal is profit...not health....nor survival.
                    Daily we see reports of nightmares caused by the GMO crops. Did you
                    see the recent one discussing the DNA mutations in mice/rats, as well
                    as piglets from eating soy that was genetically mutated with RoundUP
                    spliced into it? The real alarm is that each time the scientists
                    checked the DNA in the same subjects it was continuing to mutate
                    again and again. There is some data now in in human infants with
                    brain seizures from it. Who knows how far it will reach.....

                    Even in the US we fight the GMO battle as best we can. Big money has
                    more power than we do singly...but if your countrymen continue
                    fighting/demonstrating...maybe it will win against the big money
                    pockets of Monsanto and others.

                    I must admit I was not aware of this. It horrifies me. Worse it
                    saddens me to be included in your fury/anguish because I am a US
                    citizen.

                    I hope you win this fight.

                    Gloria
                  • Andrew E Fister
                    Absolutely correct Gloria The danger is not the US at least not all Americans are the problem. The problem, as I see it, is the so-called spreading of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 26, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Absolutely correct Gloria "The danger is not the US" at least not 'all'
                      Americans are the problem. The problem, as I see it, is the so-called
                      spreading of democracy, free trade, global economics, etc. The American
                      Way and the 'majority' of its population as it stands today, does support
                      and drive all of this. Some directly, but mostly it is the standard
                      American value system, culture and lifestyle, that keeps all this heading
                      in the unnatural direction. The problem is within and the leaders and
                      citizens in other countries who are lured into it are not doing their
                      citizens any favors, to put it mildly.

                      How does this relate to this FF list? Natural farming is based on
                      recognizing and following Natural Law. What we call modern developed
                      countries like the U.S., most of the E.U and other "global economies" are
                      blatantly in violation of Natural Law. If you look at what a society
                      eats, you will know what they value.

                      On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:58:31 -0000 "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
                      <gcb49@...> writes:
                      The danger is not the US....it is the corporations that have so many
                      nations in their pockets due to bribes and incentives. Monsanto's
                      GMO crops are not being accepted in Europe, nor most of Asia. It is
                      corruption at the highest levels of government in both the US, and
                      your country that has caused this.

                      I mean, gee.....Monsanto has applied in the US...and more than 20
                      other countries for the patent on pigs....as if they invented them.

                      The world is fighting a war it may not be aware is being fought. It
                      is one in which the end goal is profit...not health....nor survival.
                      Daily we see reports of nightmares caused by the GMO crops. Did you
                      see the recent one discussing the DNA mutations in mice/rats, as well
                      as piglets from eating soy that was genetically mutated with RoundUP
                      spliced into it? The real alarm is that each time the scientists
                      checked the DNA in the same subjects it was continuing to mutate
                      again and again. There is some data now in in human infants with
                      brain seizures from it. Who knows how far it will reach.....

                      Even in the US we fight the GMO battle as best we can. Big money has
                      more power than we do singly...but if your countrymen continue
                      fighting/demonstrating...maybe it will win against the big money
                      pockets of Monsanto and others.

                      I must admit I was not aware of this. It horrifies me. Worse it
                      saddens me to be included in your fury/anguish because I am a US
                      citizen.

                      I hope you win this fight.

                      Gloria







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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Partha Biswas
                      Dear all,i have just completed my visit at A.P.Chandrasekhars organic farm and Mr.Ramchandras natural farm at karnataka state of india.88 years old
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 26, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear all,i have just completed my visit at
                        A.P.Chandrasekhars organic farm and Mr.Ramchandras
                        natural farm at karnataka state of india.88 years old
                        Mr.Ramachandra Rao is living upon this earth in that
                        much happiness and peace with his 2 acres of land
                        which gives only Rs.2000 of monthly income that even a
                        person ownes 100 acres of land ,i am sure cannot
                        get.He is our indian sage,following the 10000 years
                        old tradition which we are fast forgetting,that is to
                        live completely with nature.And the glow i have
                        experienced in the face of Mr.Ramachandra is can be
                        only with the man of all pervading love for the living
                        kingdom of planet earth.Does anybody know the ph. No.
                        and address of shri pratap AGARWAL of bangalore?Please
                        help me to find him as i shall be visiting bangalore
                        as my last lap of journey.Thanks all.
                        --- fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        <aefister@...> wrote:
                        > Absolutely correct Gloria "The danger is not the US"
                        at least not 'all'
                        > Americans are the problem. The problem, as I see it,
                        is the so-called
                        > spreading of democracy, free trade, global
                        economics, etc. The American
                        > Way and the 'majority' of its population as it
                        stands today, does support
                        > and drive all of this. Some directly, but mostly it
                        is the standard
                        > American value system, culture and lifestyle, that
                        keeps all this heading
                        > in the unnatural direction. The problem is within
                        and the leaders and
                        > citizens in other countries who are lured into it
                        are not doing their
                        > citizens any favors, to put it mildly.
                        >
                        > How does this relate to this FF list? Natural
                        farming is based on
                        > recognizing and following Natural Law. What we call
                        modern developed
                        > countries like the U.S., most of the E.U and other
                        "global economies" are
                        > blatantly in violation of Natural Law. If you look
                        at what a society
                        > eats, you will know what they value.
                        >
                        > On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:58:31 -0000 "Gloria C.
                        Baikauskas"
                        > <gcb49@...> writes:
                        > The danger is not the US....it is the corporations
                        that have so many
                        > nations in their pockets due to bribes and
                        incentives. Monsanto's
                        > GMO crops are not being accepted in Europe, nor most
                        of Asia. It is
                        > corruption at the highest levels of government in
                        both the US, and
                        > your country that has caused this.
                        >
                        > I mean, gee.....Monsanto has applied in the US...and
                        more than 20
                        > other countries for the patent on pigs....as if they
                        invented them.
                        >
                        > The world is fighting a war it may not be aware is
                        being fought. It
                        > is one in which the end goal is profit...not
                        health....nor survival.
                        > Daily we see reports of nightmares caused by the GMO
                        crops. Did you
                        > see the recent one discussing the DNA mutations in
                        mice/rats, as well
                        > as piglets from eating soy that was genetically
                        mutated with RoundUP
                        > spliced into it? The real alarm is that each time
                        the scientists
                        > checked the DNA in the same subjects it was
                        continuing to mutate
                        > again and again. There is some data now in in human
                        infants with
                        > brain seizures from it. Who knows how far it will
                        reach.....
                        >
                        > Even in the US we fight the GMO battle as best we
                        can. Big money has
                        > more power than we do singly...but if your
                        countrymen continue
                        > fighting/demonstrating...maybe it will win against
                        the big money
                        > pockets of Monsanto and others.
                        >
                        > I must admit I was not aware of this. It horrifies
                        me. Worse it
                        > saddens me to be included in your fury/anguish
                        because I am a US
                        > citizen.
                        >
                        > I hope you win this fight.
                        >
                        > Gloria
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                        >
                        > Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        Terms of Service.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        Partha Biswas, National Park, PO-Naihati, Dt.-N.24 Pargs,743165,West Bengal ,India.Ph.-09231539115





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                      • Armando Pasquali
                        ... I live in Italy and organic farming is usually presented by newspapers and Tv programs as a good method for health and environment, but very expensive,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 27, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                          > is an organic future really sustainable ?
                          > Many people think organic farming will produce food that is healthier better
                          > for the environment than that produced with non organic methods.
                          >

                          I live in Italy and organic farming is usually presented by newspapers and
                          Tv programs as a good method for health and environment, but very expensive,
                          that is for rich people, and scarcely productive, that it not suitable for
                          developing countries.

                          So all are content, organic growers and chemical and mechanical industries.

                          The problem arise if anyone will to support organic farming as a universal
                          method, for all poeple and countries.

                          In this case, insults are the usual reaction by all media and opinion
                          makers.

                          Every technological transformation produces winners and losers.

                          But chemical and mechanical industries don't want to lose.

                          Armando Pasquali


                          Armando Pasquali

                          Sesto San Giovanni

                          Milan

                          Italy
                        • torskel87
                          Hi I would like to apologize about some expressions, I didn´t have fury intentions, the problem is that i don´t have a good english, so some phrases didn´t
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 27, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi

                            I would like to apologize about some expressions, I didn´t have fury
                            intentions, the problem is that i don´t have a good english, so some
                            phrases didn´t mean what I feel or what I think; that letter wasn´t
                            against US people, it was against the corruption and ambition behind
                            the goverments (from my country too)and corporations, I wrote so you
                            can know what is going on.And also for creating a discussion, and many
                            ideas can arise to do something against that problem.
                            Now I would like better speak about natural farming, in relation with
                            the seedballs I´ve tried to make them many times, what I´ve seen is
                            that they work really good for sowing grains like quinua,amaranth,
                            kiwincha, weat, rye, flax seeds, clover and some kind of vegetables,
                            but not for all of them , especially varities that are use to a lot of
                            care such as lettuce, tomatoes, pepper,broculi, etc. But i haven´t had
                            experience with regreening bare lands, If somebody knows about how to
                            inoculate micorrizal and other beneficial microrganisms in the
                            seedballs for sowing trees and and shrubs will be helpfull.
                            I am trying to regreen a big grassland that used to be a forest,
                            close to this land there is a native forest, so what about just
                            scattering the organic matter of the same forest that is full of seeds
                            and microorganisms, instead making seedballs, because there is not
                            clay around.
                          • Yuva Senthil Kumar. Ramalingam
                            Do you thing it s fault of US or other country or by the people of the former countries, yes it s consumers fault we have make consumers aware of all these and
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 27, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Do you thing it's fault of US or other country or by the people of the former countries, yes it's consumers fault we have make consumers aware of all these and automatically producers can change their views.

                              this is IT era and we have to utilize to communicate allover the world and make a consumer movement to find the solution. The is also unsustainable and so i emphasize this. Any natural force of universe and nature and the human caused environmental defects will put an end to IT.

                              A consumer movement is the need of the hour.

                              R.yuva senthil kumar .Student HorticultureTNAU, India

                              torskel87 <torskel87@...> wrote: Hi everyone
                              I think that organic farming is not in anyway a solution for the
                              present ecological and human problems, is actually just a way to
                              produce more money. Big organic farms use a lot of oil based energy
                              and organic matter from other places, so in wich way is it
                              sustainable???, the only way that an agricultural method can be
                              sustainable, and can be called natural it´s doing nothing and leting
                              nature to do the work. When harvest is done in the garden, after
                              working a lot and using a lot of intellect, people get pride by its
                              size and shape, but that sensation of being proud is just because
                              thinking that who produced that its the self, but when instead is
                              naturally grown and is harvested, inmediatly we can feel an
                              enormous joy because we undersdtand that nature is our mother, and
                              she is who is giving us that gift.The real problem in the world is
                              because we think that our intellect will sustain us despite the
                              destruction that we are doing to nature.
                              Other terrible problem is the false value that everyone give to the
                              material things. These are some of the problems that are making this
                              world a hell. Thats what is happening here in Ecuador; for centuries
                              people lived just of their small lands growing corn, beens, squash,
                              pumpkin, potaotoes, quinua, and a lot of wild vegetables and fruits;
                              but with the arrival of technologies 30 years ago to "improve"
                              agriculture all the native species of grains, vegetables and fruits
                              dissapear, as the ancient methods to grow them .Now the situation is
                              worst ,we are close to play with fire because the goverment wants to
                              make a kind of comercial interchange of products and services with
                              the US, so now it will be free the use of GMO´s seeds, now the poor
                              peasents will be slaves of big chemical companies. Bioterrorism will
                              be aproved because all the traditional knoledge about using the
                              medicinal herbs and biodiversity will be robbed of the native people
                              with the owner rights and intellectual property.Our society will be
                              polarized, a few wealthy, and a lot of poor people.The worst thing
                              is that nobody knows what is gonna happen with this trade; Peru and
                              Colombia already sign this trade. All this monopolization created by
                              the Us is because their natural resources as water, oil, clean air,
                              biodiversity are dissapearing, so for not falling down they need new
                              places to destroy.How are the small peasants gonna compete with
                              their few products against products that the US export with subcides
                              as weat, corn, rice, soybeans. There has been like two weeks of
                              strikes against the sign of this trade, but the people who is
                              manifesting might not achieve anything, allways the ambition and the
                              power win over the dreams of the people of a equal and better
                              society.
                              I am just writing this so all of the people of the group who are in
                              the US know whats going on, and whats doing the goverment, we might
                              not be able to do anything, maybe the only thing its to live a
                              simple and natural life while the world it´s wildly running towards
                              destruction.

                              Cheers
                              Miguel








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                            • pollywog
                              My own thought on spreading soil and natural mulch from the forest is, it sounds like a fine way to accomplish what you are wanting to do. By regreening ,
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 29, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                My own thought on spreading soil and natural mulch from the forest is, it sounds like a
                                fine way to accomplish what you are wanting to do. By "regreening", are you talking about
                                re estabishing forest to what is now grassland? That is the impression I got as I read your
                                post.
                                The only concern I would have about your proposed method, is to be sure you are
                                conservative in your takings from the forest. As with any kind of foraging or wildcrafting
                                (and essentially, I see this as foraging the food for your land), you want to be sure not to
                                take at the expense of your source.

                                There would be the needed soil life, and I would imagine plenty of seeds for each stage of
                                forest establishment. I don't know, but it might be that your land will first need the good
                                pioneer plants to run their course before the forest begins to really resemble the "original"
                                one you see close by. But, those pioneer plants and shrubs, trees and vines, will most
                                perfectly prepare the land for the mature ecosystem to come.

                                I must also apologize, btw, about the reply I gave you to your original post. It is such a
                                frustrating battle, and even though we have seen this coming, and tried our best to fight
                                it, we are outgunned on many levels. Monsanto et.al. have spent millions of dollars on
                                lobbying, even forming their own PR company in Washington DC, which spends close to a
                                billion dollars annually on getting the conglomerates' agendas packaged up in nice
                                "beneficial" gift boxes. They directly affect our policies and protocols in trade agreements.
                                The controlling members of this establishment include corporations that, in the "real"
                                world, are competitors. This is a fine tradition begun over a century ago, most notably and
                                insidiously by Rockefeller, of Standard Oil fame.

                                We can see the the snakes on Medusa's head growing in size and number, and it seems at
                                times that we are almost vilified, considered guilty by association and common
                                countryhood of the snakes. At times it feels that we are so hated, for things we are trying
                                to fight but are instead considered part of. It's scary, frustrating, and, if I am to be fully
                                honest, lonely. I know. Silly to feel such emotions. But, there we are.

                                So, I had a knee-jerk, defensive reaction to you, even though you were not pointing to us
                                citizens directly. Our language differences must also play a huge part. I know that when I
                                used the translator for some things on my Sherlock application, I could no more make
                                sense of the english translation than I could the original language. Argh!

                                If it helps, my post wasn't directed personally at you as such, it was more a general
                                expression of my frustration and fear. Both of those feelings are almost overwhelming at
                                times. It sounds angry, mostly because anger is a compound emotion- composed of fear
                                and love.

                                Anyway, if you have no clay available, I would think your use of the good forest organic
                                matter would be a good idea. I would imagine the savings in time, transport, and other
                                considerations involved would be a great help in your endeavor. Good luck to you! deb

                                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "torskel87" <torskel87@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi
                                >
                                > I would like to apologize about some expressions, I didn´t have fury
                                > intentions, the problem is that i don´t have a good english, so some
                                > phrases didn´t mean what I feel or what I think; that letter wasn´t
                                > against US people, it was against the corruption and ambition behind
                                > the goverments (from my country too)and corporations, I wrote so you
                                > can know what is going on.And also for creating a discussion, and many
                                > ideas can arise to do something against that problem.
                                > Now I would like better speak about natural farming, in relation with
                                > the seedballs I´ve tried to make them many times, what I´ve seen is
                                > that they work really good for sowing grains like quinua,amaranth,
                                > kiwincha, weat, rye, flax seeds, clover and some kind of vegetables,
                                > but not for all of them , especially varities that are use to a lot of
                                > care such as lettuce, tomatoes, pepper,broculi, etc. But i haven´t had
                                > experience with regreening bare lands, If somebody knows about how to
                                > inoculate micorrizal and other beneficial microrganisms in the
                                > seedballs for sowing trees and and shrubs will be helpfull.
                                > I am trying to regreen a big grassland that used to be a forest,
                                > close to this land there is a native forest, so what about just
                                > scattering the organic matter of the same forest that is full of seeds
                                > and microorganisms, instead making seedballs, because there is not
                                > clay around.
                                >
                              • sbecc@berkshire.net
                                Whenever I am walking on the land I think about scattering seedballs as I go. My hope is that one day some enterprising capitalist will manufacture and
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 4, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Whenever I am walking on the land I think about scattering seedballs as I
                                  go. My hope is that one day some enterprising capitalist will manufacture
                                  and distribute seedballs the same way regular seeds are distributed. Then
                                  people who are always wondering "What can I do in my life to reconnect
                                  with the earth? How can I make a difference and stop the destruction of
                                  the Mother in my name?" will have an easy and fun and radical way to
                                  change the earth - by scattering seedballs everywhere. Also, anyone who
                                  wanted to follow Fukuoka on their own land would have a
                                  n easy way to start.
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