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RE: [fukuoka_farming] using urine

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  • ziraat@olympus.net
    Hello Kate, A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water to 1 part urine. Male, female, isn t specified but the version you received sounds
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 27, 2006
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      Hello Kate,

      A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water to 1 part
      urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received sounds
      superstitious to me, maybe sexist.

      How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In the latter
      case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly anytime shortly
      before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--some yogis
      and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for example) and
      there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while trapped in
      snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.

      Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon watering can,
      then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out how many
      ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces) by using
      a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--just fill
      the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!

      -Forest Shomer



      >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
      From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
      Subject: As an aside...

      This is a bit embarrassing, but...
      Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?

      I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
      harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me why?

      I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic substance.

      Any knowledge on this subject?

      Thanks,
      a blushing,
      kate



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    • redlunarmoon
      for heavy feeding crops like corn and tomatoes it is safe to use a higher concentration of around 15:1 for soil feeding or 20:1 for foliar feeding, always
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 28, 2006
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        for heavy feeding crops like corn and tomatoes it is safe to use a
        higher concentration of around 15:1 for soil feeding or 20:1 for
        foliar feeding, always foliar feed in the early morning, never when
        the sun is high in the sky as it will burn the leaves

        I wouldn't worry too much about getting any on foliage that you plan
        on eating unless you are consuming lots of pharmaceutical drugs...I
        never had a problem, I drink loads of my urine and I ain't no yogi,
        it's only made me stronger

        cheers
        conrad







        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "ziraat@o..." <ziraat@o...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Kate,
        >
        > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water to 1
        part
        > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received sounds
        > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
        >
        > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In the
        latter
        > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly anytime
        shortly
        > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--some
        yogis
        > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for example) and
        > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
        trapped in
        > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
        >
        > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon watering can,
        > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out how many
        > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces) by
        using
        > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--just fill
        > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
        >
        > -Forest Shomer
        >
        >
        >
        > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
        > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...>
        > Subject: As an aside...
        >
        > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
        > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
        >
        > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
        > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me why?
        >
        > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic substance.
        >
        > Any knowledge on this subject?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > a blushing,
        > kate
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
        > http://mail2web.com/ .
        >
      • redlunarmoon
        also fresh urine is higher in Nitrogen, aged urine is lower in Nitrogen and consequently higher in phosphorus and potassium
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 28, 2006
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          also fresh urine is higher in Nitrogen, aged urine is lower in
          Nitrogen and consequently higher in phosphorus and potassium
        • Jim Bones
          There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife was a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes. One of the mordant
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 12, 2006
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            There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife was
            a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes. One
            of the mordant formulas called for the urine of young males. There is
            definitely a difference between the two due to the different hormones
            and metabolic by-products of each sex. It is not sexist it is scientific!

            Jim Bones
            ----------------------

            ziraat@... wrote:

            > Hello Kate,
            >
            > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water to 1 part
            > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received sounds
            > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
            >
            > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In the latter
            > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly anytime
            > shortly
            > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--some yogis
            > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for example) and
            > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
            > trapped in
            > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
            >
            > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon watering can,
            > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out how many
            > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces) by using
            > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--just fill
            > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
            >
            > -Forest Shomer
            >
            >
            >
            > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
            > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
            > Subject: As an aside...
            >
            > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
            > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
            >
            > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
            > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me why?
            >
            > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic substance.
            >
            > Any knowledge on this subject?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > a blushing,
            > kate
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------
            > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
            > http://mail2web.com/ .
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > * Visit your group "fukuoka_farming
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming>" on the web.
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            >
            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
          • Alfredo
            If I were to use human urine, I would put it in the compost rather than directly to soil. I do not know what Fakuoka San would recomend. Another list I
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 13, 2006
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              If I were to use human urine, I would put it in the compost rather
              than directly to soil. I do not know what Fakuoka San would
              recomend. Another list I belong to named soilmakers, has many posts
              on this subject. If you are interested in soil and compost, the site
              is very good.
              Take care
              Dominguez
              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bones <jimbones@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife
              was
              > a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes.
              One
              > of the mordant formulas called for the urine of young males. There
              is
              > definitely a difference between the two due to the different
              hormones
              > and metabolic by-products of each sex. It is not sexist it is
              scientific!
              >
              > Jim Bones
              > ----------------------
              >
              > ziraat@... wrote:
              >
              > > Hello Kate,
              > >
              > > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water
              to 1 part
              > > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received
              sounds
              > > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
              > >
              > > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In
              the latter
              > > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly
              anytime
              > > shortly
              > > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--
              some yogis
              > > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for
              example) and
              > > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
              > > trapped in
              > > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
              > >
              > > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon
              watering can,
              > > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out
              how many
              > > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces)
              by using
              > > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--
              just fill
              > > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
              > >
              > > -Forest Shomer
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
              > > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
              > > Subject: As an aside...
              > >
              > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
              > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
              > >
              > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
              will
              > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
              why?
              > >
              > > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
              substance.
              > >
              > > Any knowledge on this subject?
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > > a blushing,
              > > kate
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              --
              > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
              > > http://mail2web.com/ .
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              ------
              > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > >
              > > * Visit your group "fukuoka_farming
              > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming>" on the web.
              > >
              > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
              subject=Unsubscribe>
              > >
              > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              ------
              > >
              >
            • rajutitus lal
              Dear friend, When fukuoka was in Gandhi Ashram he was explaining making of seed balls.At that time I made a Quistion about mixing of cow dung and urine in clay
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 13, 2006
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                Dear friend,
                When fukuoka was in Gandhi Ashram he was explaining making of seed balls.At that time I made a Quistion about mixing of cow dung and urine in clay for making seed balls,he rejected and told that be careful with human knowledge.In initially I was also using chiken manure later realised that no need to mix any thing with clay.clay is having so many useful microbes.-Raju


                Alfredo <alfdom@...> wrote:
                If I were to use human urine, I would put it in the compost rather
                than directly to soil. I do not know what Fakuoka San would
                recomend. Another list I belong to named soilmakers, has many posts
                on this subject. If you are interested in soil and compost, the site
                is very good.
                Take care
                Dominguez
                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bones <jimbones@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife
                was
                > a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes.
                One
                > of the mordant formulas called for the urine of young males. There
                is
                > definitely a difference between the two due to the different
                hormones
                > and metabolic by-products of each sex. It is not sexist it is
                scientific!
                >
                > Jim Bones
                > ----------------------
                >
                > ziraat@... wrote:
                >
                > > Hello Kate,
                > >
                > > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water
                to 1 part
                > > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received
                sounds
                > > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
                > >
                > > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In
                the latter
                > > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly
                anytime
                > > shortly
                > > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--
                some yogis
                > > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for
                example) and
                > > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
                > > trapped in
                > > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
                > >
                > > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon
                watering can,
                > > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out
                how many
                > > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces)
                by using
                > > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--
                just fill
                > > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
                > >
                > > -Forest Shomer
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
                > > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
                > > Subject: As an aside...
                > >
                > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
                > >
                > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
                will
                > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
                why?
                > >
                > > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
                substance.
                > >
                > > Any knowledge on this subject?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > a blushing,
                > > kate
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                --
                > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                > > http://mail2web.com/ .
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                ------
                > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > >
                > > * Visit your group "fukuoka_farming
                > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming>" on the web.
                > >
                > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                subject=Unsubscribe>
                > >
                > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                ------
                > >
                >









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              • Robert Monie
                Hi, Animal products are not necessary at all to farming. The Fukuoka living mulch of Dutch clovers does not need cow (chicken, duck, fish, horse, or human)
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 14, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi,

                  Animal products are not necessary at all to farming. The Fukuoka living mulch of Dutch clovers does not need cow (chicken, duck, fish, horse, or human) dung, urine, blood, or bone. It will work perfectly well in a vegan setting. More conventional organic farmers, such as F. Scott Nearing and Elliot Coleman, have proven that fields can be made fertile for decades if not centuries, with no loading of animal products. Mr. Nearing lived to be 101, and for most of that time, he ate food he produced with no animal manure input. See him talking about this "Food Without Animal Residue," in an article about his 1953 prize from the World Vegetarian Congress: http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc53/texts.html. For almost 20 years now, Elliot Coleman (who farms the same land that Nearing once did) has grown superb organic vegetables on vegan compost; he received a grant a few years ago to explore this subject. If you want to add any kind of amendment, vegan ones like alfalfa meal and molasses,
                  will be sufficient.

                  There are many ways to get food to grow. European immigrants like the Amish and the Mennonites used horse manure because that is the way their ancestors taught them and it pragmatically worked. Chinese famers use human manure and urine because that is the way their ancestors did it. Nearing and Coleman happened on to another of nature's ways that does not require animal input..

                  Who can count the ways of nature? Fukuoka is right to say that they are beyond knowing. A few hours after the bomb dropped at Hiroshima, lichen grew near "ground zero." So nature transformed ground zero into something more than zero--into zero plus life. Who or what "manured" on the bomb site to make this possible? What animal has first to manure on the ground before forests will grow? Vegetal life needs no animal input; vegetal life preceded animal life on this Earth and made animal life possible. Vegetal life has priority in the scheme of things. French botanist Francis Halle sets the record straight on this in his book "In Praise of Plants" (Timber Press 2002)-- a classic and a delight to read.

                  Bob Monie
                  Zone 8
                  Watching the Supice tomatoes still growing in February--on clover culture above 26-inch high unmanured raised beds. No chicken, no duck, no horses and cows, just plant biomass, clovers, and tomatoes. The right microbes will come without the animal "bait" to lure them.



                  rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                  Dear friend,
                  When fukuoka was in Gandhi Ashram he was explaining making of seed balls.At that time I made a Quistion about mixing of cow dung and urine in clay for making seed balls,he rejected and told that be careful with human knowledge.In initially I was also using chiken manure later realised that no need to mix any thing with clay.clay is having so many useful microbes.-Raju


                  Alfredo <alfdom@...> wrote:
                  If I were to use human urine, I would put it in the compost rather
                  than directly to soil. I do not know what Fakuoka San would
                  recomend. Another list I belong to named soilmakers, has many posts
                  on this subject. If you are interested in soil and compost, the site
                  is very good.
                  Take care
                  Dominguez
                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bones <jimbones@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife
                  was
                  > a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes.
                  One
                  > of the mordant formulas called for the urine of young males. There
                  is
                  > definitely a difference between the two due to the different
                  hormones
                  > and metabolic by-products of each sex. It is not sexist it is
                  scientific!
                  >
                  > Jim Bones
                  > ----------------------
                  >
                  > ziraat@... wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hello Kate,
                  > >
                  > > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water
                  to 1 part
                  > > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received
                  sounds
                  > > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
                  > >
                  > > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In
                  the latter
                  > > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly
                  anytime
                  > > shortly
                  > > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--
                  some yogis
                  > > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for
                  example) and
                  > > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
                  > > trapped in
                  > > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
                  > >
                  > > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon
                  watering can,
                  > > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out
                  how many
                  > > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces)
                  by using
                  > > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--
                  just fill
                  > > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
                  > >
                  > > -Forest Shomer
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
                  > > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
                  > > Subject: As an aside...
                  > >
                  > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                  > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
                  > >
                  > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
                  will
                  > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
                  why?
                  > >
                  > > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
                  substance.
                  > >
                  > > Any knowledge on this subject?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > a blushing,
                  > > kate
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                  --
                  > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                  > > http://mail2web.com/ .
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ------
                  > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  > >
                  > > * Visit your group "fukuoka_farming
                  > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming>" on the web.
                  > >
                  > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > <mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                  subject=Unsubscribe>
                  > >
                  > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ------
                  > >
                  >









                  SPONSORED LINKS
                  Organic gardening Organic gardening magazine Organic gardening pest control Organic gardening supply Organic vegetable gardening Organic seed

                  ---------------------------------
                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                  Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                  ---------------------------------





                  ---------------------------------
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  SPONSORED LINKS
                  Organic gardening Organic gardening magazine Organic gardening pest control Organic gardening supply Organic vegetable gardening Organic seed

                  ---------------------------------
                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                  Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.

                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                  ---------------------------------





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ingrid Bauer / Jean-Claude Catry
                  i am not a proponent of abondant use of mammal manure but i would like to adress a missconception . there is no such thing as vegan farming . it will be
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 14, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    i am not a proponent of abondant use of mammal manure but i would like to
                    adress a missconception .
                    there is no such thing as vegan farming .
                    it will be discounting the necessarry functions and roles met by the
                    microfauna, worms , insects , spiders , reptiles amphibians ,birds , small
                    mammals who live and die in any garden .
                    bigger mammals are also necessarry element of any ecosystem even in the form
                    of periodic short visit. many plant will welcome any shit and pee they could
                    leave on their way , they will also takes advantage of increased fertility
                    left by the decaying body of animals or the physical tracks made by them (
                    pigs chickens and alike )

                    many seeds sprout better after being thru an animal digestive sytem .
                    both plants and animals are interdependant with each other at many level .we
                    could even say they are the two faces of a same coin . like male and female
                    they makes one .

                    jean-claude

                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > Animal products are not necessary at all to farming. The Fukuoka living
                    > mulch of Dutch clovers does not need cow (chicken, duck, fish, horse, or
                    > human) dung, urine, blood, or bone. It will work perfectly well in a vegan
                    > setting. More conventional organic farmers, such as F. Scott Nearing and
                    > Elliot Coleman, have proven that fields can be made fertile for decades if
                    > not centuries, with no loading of animal products. Mr. Nearing lived to
                    > be 101, and for most of that time, he ate food he produced with no animal
                    > manure input. See him talking about this "Food Without Animal Residue," in
                    > an article about his 1953 prize from the World Vegetarian Congress:
                    > http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc53/texts.html. For almost 20 years now,
                    > Elliot Coleman (who farms the same land that Nearing once did) has grown
                    > superb organic vegetables on vegan compost; he received a grant a few
                    > years ago to explore this subject. If you want to add any kind of
                    > amendment, vegan ones like alfalfa meal and molasses,
                    > will be sufficient.
                    >
                    > There are many ways to get food to grow. European immigrants like the
                    > Amish and the Mennonites used horse manure because that is the way their
                    > ancestors taught them and it pragmatically worked. Chinese famers use
                    > human manure and urine because that is the way their ancestors did it.
                    > Nearing and Coleman happened on to another of nature's ways that does not
                    > require animal input..
                    >
                    > Who can count the ways of nature? Fukuoka is right to say that they are
                    > beyond knowing. A few hours after the bomb dropped at Hiroshima, lichen
                    > grew near "ground zero." So nature transformed ground zero into something
                    > more than zero--into zero plus life. Who or what "manured" on the bomb
                    > site to make this possible? What animal has first to manure on the ground
                    > before forests will grow? Vegetal life needs no animal input; vegetal life
                    > preceded animal life on this Earth and made animal life possible. Vegetal
                    > life has priority in the scheme of things. French botanist Francis Halle
                    > sets the record straight on this in his book "In Praise of Plants" (Timber
                    > Press 2002)-- a classic and a delight to read.
                    >
                    > Bob Monie
                    > Zone 8
                    > Watching the Supice tomatoes still growing in February--on clover culture
                    > above 26-inch high unmanured raised beds. No chicken, no duck, no horses
                    > and cows, just plant biomass, clovers, and tomatoes. The right microbes
                    > will come without the animal "bait" to lure them.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                    > Dear friend,
                    > When fukuoka was in Gandhi Ashram he was explaining making of seed
                    > balls.At that time I made a Quistion about mixing of cow dung and urine in
                    > clay for making seed balls,he rejected and told that be careful with human
                    > knowledge.In initially I was also using chiken manure later realised that
                    > no need to mix any thing with clay.clay is having so many useful
                    > microbes.-Raju
                    >
                    >
                    > Alfredo <alfdom@...> wrote:
                    > If I were to use human urine, I would put it in the compost rather
                    > than directly to soil. I do not know what Fakuoka San would
                    > recomend. Another list I belong to named soilmakers, has many posts
                    > on this subject. If you are interested in soil and compost, the site
                    > is very good.
                    > Take care
                    > Dominguez
                    > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bones <jimbones@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >>
                    >> There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife
                    > was
                    >> a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes.
                    > One
                    >> of the mordant formulas called for the urine of young males. There
                    > is
                    >> definitely a difference between the two due to the different
                    > hormones
                    >> and metabolic by-products of each sex. It is not sexist it is
                    > scientific!
                    >>
                    >> Jim Bones
                    >> ----------------------
                    >>
                    >> ziraat@... wrote:
                    >>
                    >> > Hello Kate,
                    >> >
                    >> > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water
                    > to 1 part
                    >> > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received
                    > sounds
                    >> > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
                    >> >
                    >> > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In
                    > the latter
                    >> > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly
                    > anytime
                    >> > shortly
                    >> > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--
                    > some yogis
                    >> > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for
                    > example) and
                    >> > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
                    >> > trapped in
                    >> > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
                    >> >
                    >> > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon
                    > watering can,
                    >> > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out
                    > how many
                    >> > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces)
                    > by using
                    >> > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--
                    > just fill
                    >> > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
                    >> >
                    >> > -Forest Shomer
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
                    >> > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
                    >> > Subject: As an aside...
                    >> >
                    >> > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                    >> > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
                    >> >
                    >> > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
                    > will
                    >> > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
                    > why?
                    >> >
                    >> > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
                    > substance.
                    >> >
                    >> > Any knowledge on this subject?
                    >> >
                    >> > Thanks,
                    >> > a blushing,
                    >> > kate
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > --
                    >> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                    >> > http://mail2web.com/ .
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > ------
                    >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >> >
                    >> > * Visit your group "fukuoka_farming
                    >> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming>" on the web.
                    >> >
                    >> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >> > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >> > <mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                    > subject=Unsubscribe>
                    >> >
                    >> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    >> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > ------
                    >> >
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > Organic gardening Organic gardening magazine Organic gardening
                    > pest control Organic gardening supply Organic vegetable gardening
                    > Organic seed
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                    > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > SPONSORED LINKS
                    > Organic gardening Organic gardening magazine Organic gardening
                    > pest control Organic gardening supply Organic vegetable gardening
                    > Organic seed
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Robert Monie
                    Hi Jean Claude, Everything is relative, including the vegan diet and vegan farming. Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a vegan diet because
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 15, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Jean Claude,

                      Everything is relative, including the vegan diet and vegan farming.

                      Strictly speaking there is no such thing as a vegan diet because non-vegetal microbes are always on any food we eat,. Yet people who never eat animal flesh or animal milk have to come up with some name to describe their diet, and vegan is as good as any other.

                      The term vegan farming (as I use it) means that the farmer does not deliberately put animal parts or excreta into the soil. Of course small animals like squirrels and birds will come into the garden and dig and peck and excrete into it, but they also do the same to fields that are composted with animal parts, making the sum total of those farms much more dependent on animal products. A vegan farm will have much less involvement with animal parts and products than a non-vegan one, but of course there will be earthworms, insects, microbes, etc that are not vegan.

                      Vegan farms are different from non-vegan ones--enough to justify using the terms even if they are not precise. Go to an Amish farm and you see horse manure spread all over; it has a distinctive odor and appearance; you can see the vapors rising from the manure and, if you aren't careful, you can step on it and have to wipe the stuff off your boots. Vegan farms smell and look different; they have more of flowery aroma and about the stickest, gooeyest thing you might step in is beet molasses. Animal manure farms require the importation (or live-in availability) of horses, cows, ducks, chickens, etc or their products. Vegan farms do not, since all the animal workers (birds,squirrels, bees, earthworms, microbes) find their way there on their own!

                      Vegan farms are also different in the responses other farmers give to them: "You mean to tell me that you farm this land without animal manure, fish parts, blood or bonemeal. How do you do it?" If vegan farms look so different to non-vegan farmers, I'd say they really are different.

                      Also to "push the envelope," it is possible to aeroponically grow vegetables in pure plant extracts indoors, away from all animals except the tinyest microbes.

                      Best wishes,

                      Bob Monie

                      Ingrid Bauer / Jean-Claude Catry <instinct@...> wrote:
                      i am not a proponent of abondant use of mammal manure but i would like to
                      adress a missconception .
                      there is no such thing as vegan farming .
                      it will be discounting the necessarry functions and roles met by the
                      microfauna, worms , insects , spiders , reptiles amphibians ,birds , small
                      mammals who live and die in any garden .
                      bigger mammals are also necessarry element of any ecosystem even in the form
                      of periodic short visit. many plant will welcome any shit and pee they could
                      leave on their way , they will also takes advantage of increased fertility
                      left by the decaying body of animals or the physical tracks made by them (
                      pigs chickens and alike )

                      many seeds sprout better after being thru an animal digestive sytem .
                      both plants and animals are interdependant with each other at many level .we
                      could even say they are the two faces of a same coin . like male and female
                      they makes one .

                      jean-claude

                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > Animal products are not necessary at all to farming. The Fukuoka living
                      > mulch of Dutch clovers does not need cow (chicken, duck, fish, horse, or
                      > human) dung, urine, blood, or bone. It will work perfectly well in a vegan
                      > setting. More conventional organic farmers, such as F. Scott Nearing and
                      > Elliot Coleman, have proven that fields can be made fertile for decades if
                      > not centuries, with no loading of animal products. Mr. Nearing lived to
                      > be 101, and for most of that time, he ate food he produced with no animal
                      > manure input. See him talking about this "Food Without Animal Residue," in
                      > an article about his 1953 prize from the World Vegetarian Congress:
                      > http://www.ivu.org/congress/wvc53/texts.html. For almost 20 years now,
                      > Elliot Coleman (who farms the same land that Nearing once did) has grown
                      > superb organic vegetables on vegan compost; he received a grant a few
                      > years ago to explore this subject. If you want to add any kind of
                      > amendment, vegan ones like alfalfa meal and molasses,
                      > will be sufficient.
                      >
                      > There are many ways to get food to grow. European immigrants like the
                      > Amish and the Mennonites used horse manure because that is the way their
                      > ancestors taught them and it pragmatically worked. Chinese famers use
                      > human manure and urine because that is the way their ancestors did it.
                      > Nearing and Coleman happened on to another of nature's ways that does not
                      > require animal input..
                      >
                      > Who can count the ways of nature? Fukuoka is right to say that they are
                      > beyond knowing. A few hours after the bomb dropped at Hiroshima, lichen
                      > grew near "ground zero." So nature transformed ground zero into something
                      > more than zero--into zero plus life. Who or what "manured" on the bomb
                      > site to make this possible? What animal has first to manure on the ground
                      > before forests will grow? Vegetal life needs no animal input; vegetal life
                      > preceded animal life on this Earth and made animal life possible. Vegetal
                      > life has priority in the scheme of things. French botanist Francis Halle
                      > sets the record straight on this in his book "In Praise of Plants" (Timber
                      > Press 2002)-- a classic and a delight to read.
                      >
                      > Bob Monie
                      > Zone 8
                      > Watching the Supice tomatoes still growing in February--on clover culture
                      > above 26-inch high unmanured raised beds. No chicken, no duck, no horses
                      > and cows, just plant biomass, clovers, and tomatoes. The right microbes
                      > will come without the animal "bait" to lure them.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > rajutitus lal <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
                      > Dear friend,
                      > When fukuoka was in Gandhi Ashram he was explaining making of seed
                      > balls.At that time I made a Quistion about mixing of cow dung and urine in
                      > clay for making seed balls,he rejected and told that be careful with human
                      > knowledge.In initially I was also using chiken manure later realised that
                      > no need to mix any thing with clay.clay is having so many useful
                      > microbes.-Raju
                      >
                      >
                      > Alfredo <alfdom@...> wrote:
                      > If I were to use human urine, I would put it in the compost rather
                      > than directly to soil. I do not know what Fakuoka San would
                      > recomend. Another list I belong to named soilmakers, has many posts
                      > on this subject. If you are interested in soil and compost, the site
                      > is very good.
                      > Take care
                      > Dominguez
                      > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bones <jimbones@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >>
                      >> There is definitely a difference in male and female urine. My wife
                      > was
                      >> a hand spinner and weaver and she dyed yarns with vegetable dyes.
                      > One
                      >> of the mordant formulas called for the urine of young males. There
                      > is
                      >> definitely a difference between the two due to the different
                      > hormones
                      >> and metabolic by-products of each sex. It is not sexist it is
                      > scientific!
                      >>
                      >> Jim Bones
                      >> ----------------------
                      >>
                      >> ziraat@... wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > Hello Kate,
                      >> >
                      >> > A classic English recipe for urine is: dilute to 32 parts water
                      > to 1 part
                      >> > urine. Male, female, isn't specified but the version you received
                      > sounds
                      >> > superstitious to me, maybe sexist.
                      >> >
                      >> > How to apply: you can use a watering can, or a foliar spray. In
                      > the latter
                      >> > case, obviously don't apply to edible leaves/fruit directly
                      > anytime
                      >> > shortly
                      >> > before consuming the produce. Not that urine is 'bad' for you--
                      > some yogis
                      >> > and others have used it as a tonic (full of minerals, for
                      > example) and
                      >> > there are many cases of people surviving by drinking urine while
                      >> > trapped in
                      >> > snowstorms or vehicle accidents for many days.
                      >> >
                      >> > Simplest method I know is: urinate right into a one-gallon
                      > watering can,
                      >> > then add water. If you want to be true to the recipe, find out
                      > how many
                      >> > ounces to your 'average' urination (it will be just a few ounces)
                      > by using
                      >> > a measuring cup. So if you usually expel four ounces, perfect--
                      > just fill
                      >> > the one-gallon can to the brim, and head for the garden!
                      >> >
                      >> > -Forest Shomer
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > >>>>>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:26:34 -0000
                      >> > From: "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...>
                      >> > Subject: As an aside...
                      >> >
                      >> > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                      >> > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
                      >> >
                      >> > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
                      > will
                      >> > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
                      > why?
                      >> >
                      >> > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
                      > substance.
                      >> >
                      >> > Any knowledge on this subject?
                      >> >
                      >> > Thanks,
                      >> > a blushing,
                      >> > kate
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > --
                      >> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
                      >> > http://mail2web.com/ .
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > ------
                      >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >> >
                      >> > * Visit your group "fukuoka_farming
                      >> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming>" on the web.
                      >> >
                      >> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >> > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >> > <mailto:fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                      > subject=Unsubscribe>
                      >> >
                      >> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      >> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > ------
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                      > Organic gardening Organic gardening magazine Organic gardening
                      > pest control Organic gardening supply Organic vegetable gardening
                      > Organic seed
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      >
                      > Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Brings words and photos together (easily) with
                      > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > SPONSORED LINKS
                      > Organic gardening Organic gardening magazine Organic gardening
                      > pest control Organic gardening supply Organic vegetable gardening
                      > Organic seed
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      >
                      > Visit your group "fukuoka_farming" on the web.
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >



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