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RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

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  • Connie Kuramoto
    Doesn t it depend on what the human is eating? Connie K. ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
      Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
      Connie K.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio Montinola
      Sent: January 27, 2006 12:29 PM
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

      Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

      Serge M.




      --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

      > I love your response....right on...but is it
      > organic? LOL
      > Connie kurmoto
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
      > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
      > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
      >
      > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
      >
      > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
      > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
      > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
      > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
      > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
      >
      > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
      > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
      > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there
      > is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents

      > to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
      > notwithstanding.
      >
      > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output
      > that would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or
      > otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
      > She knows what she's
      > doing.
      >
      > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
      >
      > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
      > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
      > soil ammendment?
      > > >
      > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
      > that female urine will
      > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
      > can anyone tell me
      > > > why?
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Sergio Montinola
      Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
        Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing.

        --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

        > I love your response....right on...but is it
        > organic? LOL
        > Connie kurmoto
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        > Of pollywog
        > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
        > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
        >
        > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
        >
        > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
        > resultant toxins and
        > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
        > or other menstrual
        > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
        > (like a 1-gallon
        > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
        > overload your soil's
        > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
        >
        > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
        > perimenopausal cycle,
        > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
        > like bulls or stud
        > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
        > from that, there is
        > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
        > unwanted constituents to
        > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
        > notwithstanding.
        >
        > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
        > have boku output that
        > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
        > store or otherwise
        > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
        > She knows what she's
        > doing.
        >
        > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
        >
        > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
        > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
        > soil ammendment?
        > > >
        > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
        > that female urine will
        > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
        > can anyone tell me
        > > > why?
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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      • pollywog
        Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I hadn t started a flame war. I know, I shoulda thought of that
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
          Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I
          hadn't started a flame war. <G> I know, I shoulda thought of that before I hit the "send"
          button. I'm not known for foresight, though, mostly I'm known for saying "uh-oh. There
          goes my mouth again!" after the fact, and when the armies of Armaggedon are ranking.
          {;)

          It strikes me that Katherine, being a lady who takes such care in the best utilization of
          her output, would be just as careful, if not more, about her intake. She doesn't strike me
          as the Twinkies for breadfast, Hershey bar and Fritos for lunch, Hormone-laced Breaded
          Fried Pork Loin for dinner sort of eater.

          I also would not be as worried about her food intake, as any meds she might be
          injesting. There is a lot of change from food/liquid intake to final funnel-function
          production, especially when we are talking about the chemical changes and extreme
          filtering that happens in the overall system that produces, as it's final product, our urine.
          Many meds are not so cleansed, however, and that may be problematic; but I still do not
          see that one person's output (we humans produce about 50cc's of urine an hour, if
          memory serves right) would make a big difference unless one is absolute purist.

          I wouldn't even worry about her eating black walnuts and pouring her void on the tomato
          plants. <G> deb

          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Connie Kuramoto" <kuramoto@M...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
          > Connie K.
        • redlunarmoon
          here s a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html ... Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
            here's a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html

            ----------------------------------------------------------
            Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting

            MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
            Co-ordinator CEDICAR and of the Urban Agriculture Network (Red Aguila
            - Mexicana).
            E-mail: farroyo@...

            Experiments and tests using fermented human urine in the production of
            legumes, medicinal and aromatic plants in containers, began 10 years
            ago1 in the Rural Research and Training Centre A.C. (CEDICAR). This
            cultivation system has been called "organoponics" or "urineponics". It
            is a cost-effective system, saving money, water, and being capable of
            producing an average of 25 kg of legumes per year per m2, and which
            has been culturally accepted by most of the families and institutions
            with which we have worked.

            The main advantage of this cultivation system, especially where land
            is scarce, is that after 10 months of growth, the initial substratum
            has decomposed, resulting in compost, rich in organic matter.

            Organoponics
            The organoponic system developed in Mexico, mainly in urban areas, is
            extremely simple. First, containers are filled with leaves and/or
            grass trimmings up to 85% of their capacity. Then they are inoculated
            with fermented urine and filled with an additional 15% of topsoil.
            Finally, the seed is transplanted or sown.

            Urine is fermented by placing one litre of urine in a container and
            adding a spoonful of black soil, compost or vermicompost. It is left
            to sit without cover for 28 days. The process is completed when the
            smell of ammonia becomes pervasive and the colour changes from light
            yellow to dark brown.

            Use of the ferment:

            * In organoponics, 3 litres per bucket with 19 litres of
            compressed leaves, (15 litres per m2 of leaves, 20 cm deep). This is
            the initial dose. Then, it is diluted at a ratio of 10:1, (10 parts
            water to 1 part ferment). A quarter of a litre of this is applied per
            bucket, three times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday).
            * On the soil, it is applied combined with irrigation and/or
            rainwater in doses still being tested for different crops.
            Composting activator: as urine ferments, significant
            populations of Actinomycets emerge, which are microorganisms
            especially apt to degrade lignin and cellulose. For this reason, it
            can be applied at a dose of 5 to 20 litres per m3 of carbon rich
            material, to substitute and/or complement other manure.
            Consult web page: www.laneta.apc.org/sarar

            Environmental health
            The use of urine as fertilizer highlights the added benefits of dry
            toilets, as well as edible backyard and rooftop gardens. Families are
            also encouraged to donate their urine to the municipal system for
            treatment and use in peri urban agriculture.

            Urine is innocuous, its use is guaranteed and carries no health
            risks2. Most of the pathogens that cause human diseases die quickly
            once urine leaves the body. If some subsist, the lactic bacteria and
            the Actinomycets would destroy them during storage and during the
            fermenting process.

            Organoponics and other components of Urban Agriculture
            The technique allows the recycling of organic matter (used as
            substrata) and promotes the sorting of household wastes and the
            development of household, neighbourhood and municipal composting
            centres. It also saves water, promoting dry, urine-separating toilets,
            which alleviates the accidental discharges from toilets and septic
            tanks reaching water bodies, causing their eventual eutrophication.

            Although household gardens are not conceived as a business or a small
            undertaking, a 10 m2 garden can bring a family savings of 80 to 100
            US$ per month. The household diet is improved as healthy and fresh
            legumes become more easily available.

            The practice can be used as participatory environmental education
            process for the poorer segments of the population, which will
            reinforce community ties and neighbourhood organizations. Gender
            studies and surveys on the distribution of household work are being
            conducted. The provision of support and incentives to environmentally
            conscious families needs to be included in environment, public
            service, health and economic policies of local authorities. It would
            also be feasible and desirable, for local authorities to set up urban
            agriculture divisions and integrate urban agriculture into municipal
            agricultural initiatives. Having a municipal greenhouse and composting
            centre that supplies seedlings and compost is, without doubt, a
            strategic action that will help to achieve continuity and maintain
            family gardens in good condition.

            The use of human urine as fertilizer in urban agriculture requires
            that it be developed as a local authority backed programme. Systems to
            collect, transport, store, treat (ferment) and apply, need to be
            developed. The same farmers interested in using urine can take part in
            this programme and develop an enterprise for the handling both of
            urine and faeces and their secondary treatments before being used as
            fertilizers. The role of the municipality will be to facilitate these
            activities and perhaps, find funds to partially subsidize the process.

            Notes
            1) Based on a brochure published by the State of California, USA,
            written by Dr. Barbara Daniels (Fairfax California. USA, year unknown).
            2) Vinneras Björn "Possibilities for sustainable nutrient recycling by
            fecal separation combined with urine diversion. Doctoral thesis.
            Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences. Uppsala 2002.
            Esrey A. Steve, et.al. "Cerrando el Ciclo. Saneamiento ecológico para
            la seguridad alimentaria. UNDP-SIDA. Mexico, 2001.
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