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Re: As an aside...

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  • pollywog
    No need to be embarrassed. Pee on! Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 26, 2006
      No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!

      Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and such, have
      serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual imbalances, or are voiding
      on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
      overload your soil's abiltiy to utilize your urine.

      If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle, you may want to
      stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud horses, or perhaps the occasional
      lonely dog. Aside from that, there is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
      unwanted constituents to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
      notwithstanding.

      Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output that would put a
      frat house to shame, there is no need to store or otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out,
      and let Mom Earth deal. She knows what she's doing.

      No toxins? No time? No worries. deb

      > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
      >
      > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
      > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil
      > > ammendment?
      > >
      > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that
      > > female urine will
      > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can
      > > anyone tell me why?
      >
    • Connie Kuramoto
      I love your response....right on...but is it organic? LOL Connie kurmoto ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com]
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
        I love your response....right on...but is it organic? LOL
        Connie kurmoto

        -----Original Message-----
        From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
        Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

        No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!

        Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
        such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
        imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
        bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
        abiltiy to utilize your urine.

        If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
        you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
        horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there is
        no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents to
        your urine beyond those of any other person- gender notwithstanding.

        Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output that
        would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or otherwise
        "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal. She knows what she's
        doing.

        No toxins? No time? No worries. deb

        > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
        >
        > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
        > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
        > >
        > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
        > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
        > > why?
        >






        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Sergio Montinola
        Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement. Serge M. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
          Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

          Serge M.




          --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

          > I love your response....right on...but is it
          > organic? LOL
          > Connie kurmoto
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of pollywog
          > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
          > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
          >
          > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
          >
          > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
          > resultant toxins and
          > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
          > or other menstrual
          > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
          > (like a 1-gallon
          > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
          > overload your soil's
          > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
          >
          > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
          > perimenopausal cycle,
          > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
          > like bulls or stud
          > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
          > from that, there is
          > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
          > unwanted constituents to
          > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
          > notwithstanding.
          >
          > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
          > have boku output that
          > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
          > store or otherwise
          > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
          > She knows what she's
          > doing.
          >
          > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
          >
          > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
          > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
          > soil ammendment?
          > > >
          > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
          > that female urine will
          > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
          > can anyone tell me
          > > > why?
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Connie Kuramoto
          Doesn t it depend on what the human is eating? Connie K. ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
            Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
            Connie K.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio Montinola
            Sent: January 27, 2006 12:29 PM
            To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

            Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

            Serge M.




            --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

            > I love your response....right on...but is it
            > organic? LOL
            > Connie kurmoto
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
            > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
            > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
            >
            > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
            >
            > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
            > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
            > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
            > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
            > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
            >
            > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
            > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
            > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there
            > is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents

            > to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
            > notwithstanding.
            >
            > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output
            > that would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or
            > otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
            > She knows what she's
            > doing.
            >
            > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
            >
            > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
            > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
            > soil ammendment?
            > > >
            > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
            > that female urine will
            > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
            > can anyone tell me
            > > > why?
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >


            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com



            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Sergio Montinola
            Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
              Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing.

              --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

              > I love your response....right on...but is it
              > organic? LOL
              > Connie kurmoto
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              > Of pollywog
              > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
              > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
              >
              > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
              >
              > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
              > resultant toxins and
              > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
              > or other menstrual
              > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
              > (like a 1-gallon
              > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
              > overload your soil's
              > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
              >
              > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
              > perimenopausal cycle,
              > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
              > like bulls or stud
              > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
              > from that, there is
              > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
              > unwanted constituents to
              > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
              > notwithstanding.
              >
              > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
              > have boku output that
              > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
              > store or otherwise
              > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
              > She knows what she's
              > doing.
              >
              > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
              >
              > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
              > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
              > soil ammendment?
              > > >
              > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
              > that female urine will
              > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
              > can anyone tell me
              > > > why?
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • pollywog
              Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I hadn t started a flame war. I know, I shoulda thought of that
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
                Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I
                hadn't started a flame war. <G> I know, I shoulda thought of that before I hit the "send"
                button. I'm not known for foresight, though, mostly I'm known for saying "uh-oh. There
                goes my mouth again!" after the fact, and when the armies of Armaggedon are ranking.
                {;)

                It strikes me that Katherine, being a lady who takes such care in the best utilization of
                her output, would be just as careful, if not more, about her intake. She doesn't strike me
                as the Twinkies for breadfast, Hershey bar and Fritos for lunch, Hormone-laced Breaded
                Fried Pork Loin for dinner sort of eater.

                I also would not be as worried about her food intake, as any meds she might be
                injesting. There is a lot of change from food/liquid intake to final funnel-function
                production, especially when we are talking about the chemical changes and extreme
                filtering that happens in the overall system that produces, as it's final product, our urine.
                Many meds are not so cleansed, however, and that may be problematic; but I still do not
                see that one person's output (we humans produce about 50cc's of urine an hour, if
                memory serves right) would make a big difference unless one is absolute purist.

                I wouldn't even worry about her eating black walnuts and pouring her void on the tomato
                plants. <G> deb

                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Connie Kuramoto" <kuramoto@M...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
                > Connie K.
              • redlunarmoon
                here s a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html ... Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
                  here's a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html

                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                  Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting

                  MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
                  Co-ordinator CEDICAR and of the Urban Agriculture Network (Red Aguila
                  - Mexicana).
                  E-mail: farroyo@...

                  Experiments and tests using fermented human urine in the production of
                  legumes, medicinal and aromatic plants in containers, began 10 years
                  ago1 in the Rural Research and Training Centre A.C. (CEDICAR). This
                  cultivation system has been called "organoponics" or "urineponics". It
                  is a cost-effective system, saving money, water, and being capable of
                  producing an average of 25 kg of legumes per year per m2, and which
                  has been culturally accepted by most of the families and institutions
                  with which we have worked.

                  The main advantage of this cultivation system, especially where land
                  is scarce, is that after 10 months of growth, the initial substratum
                  has decomposed, resulting in compost, rich in organic matter.

                  Organoponics
                  The organoponic system developed in Mexico, mainly in urban areas, is
                  extremely simple. First, containers are filled with leaves and/or
                  grass trimmings up to 85% of their capacity. Then they are inoculated
                  with fermented urine and filled with an additional 15% of topsoil.
                  Finally, the seed is transplanted or sown.

                  Urine is fermented by placing one litre of urine in a container and
                  adding a spoonful of black soil, compost or vermicompost. It is left
                  to sit without cover for 28 days. The process is completed when the
                  smell of ammonia becomes pervasive and the colour changes from light
                  yellow to dark brown.

                  Use of the ferment:

                  * In organoponics, 3 litres per bucket with 19 litres of
                  compressed leaves, (15 litres per m2 of leaves, 20 cm deep). This is
                  the initial dose. Then, it is diluted at a ratio of 10:1, (10 parts
                  water to 1 part ferment). A quarter of a litre of this is applied per
                  bucket, three times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday).
                  * On the soil, it is applied combined with irrigation and/or
                  rainwater in doses still being tested for different crops.
                  Composting activator: as urine ferments, significant
                  populations of Actinomycets emerge, which are microorganisms
                  especially apt to degrade lignin and cellulose. For this reason, it
                  can be applied at a dose of 5 to 20 litres per m3 of carbon rich
                  material, to substitute and/or complement other manure.
                  Consult web page: www.laneta.apc.org/sarar

                  Environmental health
                  The use of urine as fertilizer highlights the added benefits of dry
                  toilets, as well as edible backyard and rooftop gardens. Families are
                  also encouraged to donate their urine to the municipal system for
                  treatment and use in peri urban agriculture.

                  Urine is innocuous, its use is guaranteed and carries no health
                  risks2. Most of the pathogens that cause human diseases die quickly
                  once urine leaves the body. If some subsist, the lactic bacteria and
                  the Actinomycets would destroy them during storage and during the
                  fermenting process.

                  Organoponics and other components of Urban Agriculture
                  The technique allows the recycling of organic matter (used as
                  substrata) and promotes the sorting of household wastes and the
                  development of household, neighbourhood and municipal composting
                  centres. It also saves water, promoting dry, urine-separating toilets,
                  which alleviates the accidental discharges from toilets and septic
                  tanks reaching water bodies, causing their eventual eutrophication.

                  Although household gardens are not conceived as a business or a small
                  undertaking, a 10 m2 garden can bring a family savings of 80 to 100
                  US$ per month. The household diet is improved as healthy and fresh
                  legumes become more easily available.

                  The practice can be used as participatory environmental education
                  process for the poorer segments of the population, which will
                  reinforce community ties and neighbourhood organizations. Gender
                  studies and surveys on the distribution of household work are being
                  conducted. The provision of support and incentives to environmentally
                  conscious families needs to be included in environment, public
                  service, health and economic policies of local authorities. It would
                  also be feasible and desirable, for local authorities to set up urban
                  agriculture divisions and integrate urban agriculture into municipal
                  agricultural initiatives. Having a municipal greenhouse and composting
                  centre that supplies seedlings and compost is, without doubt, a
                  strategic action that will help to achieve continuity and maintain
                  family gardens in good condition.

                  The use of human urine as fertilizer in urban agriculture requires
                  that it be developed as a local authority backed programme. Systems to
                  collect, transport, store, treat (ferment) and apply, need to be
                  developed. The same farmers interested in using urine can take part in
                  this programme and develop an enterprise for the handling both of
                  urine and faeces and their secondary treatments before being used as
                  fertilizers. The role of the municipality will be to facilitate these
                  activities and perhaps, find funds to partially subsidize the process.

                  Notes
                  1) Based on a brochure published by the State of California, USA,
                  written by Dr. Barbara Daniels (Fairfax California. USA, year unknown).
                  2) Vinneras Björn "Possibilities for sustainable nutrient recycling by
                  fecal separation combined with urine diversion. Doctoral thesis.
                  Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences. Uppsala 2002.
                  Esrey A. Steve, et.al. "Cerrando el Ciclo. Saneamiento ecológico para
                  la seguridad alimentaria. UNDP-SIDA. Mexico, 2001.
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