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Re: [fukuoka_farming] As an aside...

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  • Thavisak Thavornrat
    According to my experiences both can be used only you have to leave it for a while. Using it instantly and with high quantity both can harm your plant. I leave
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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      According to my experiences both can be used only you
      have to leave it for a while. Using it instantly and
      with high quantity both can harm your plant. I leave
      it for about 15 days.

      Thavisak Thavornrat
      Thailand

      --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...> wrote:

      > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
      > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil
      > ammendment?
      >
      > I was told that only male urine can be used, that
      > female urine will
      > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can
      > anyone tell me why?
      >
      > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is
      > a toxic substance.
      >
      > Any knowledge on this subject?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > a blushing,
      > kate
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Thavisakt Thavornrat
      10/12 Cholcharoen Soi 1,Boryang, Muang District,Songkhla Province 90000
      Thailand
      Tel Mobile 06 9653769, Home 074 321195

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    • torskel87
      Katherine You can use both female and male urine for thr plants, you have to accumalate at least 10 litters, put some sugar in it so it ferments faster, after
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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        Katherine
        You can use both female and male urine for thr plants, you have to
        accumalate at least 10 litters, put some sugar in it so it ferments
        faster, after of like 15 days it will be stinking, and you can use
        it, you must disolve 1 of thisfermented urine in 10 of water, and it
        will help a lot to the plants.Urine is not in anyway a toxic
        product, now its even used for healing many illness drinking it.
        Urine is the bless of the heaven it is so usefull.
        vic




        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine T."
        <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
        >
        > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
        > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
        >
        > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
        will
        > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
        why?
        >
        > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
        substance.
        >
        > Any knowledge on this subject?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > a blushing,
        > kate
        >
      • cliff davis
        We use human urine. The npk is something like 6/3/3 so it is a great fertilizer. I am not sure about female urine being unusable. Sounds like patriarch BS
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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          We use human urine. The npk is something like 6/3/3 so it is a great fertilizer. I am not sure about female urine being unusable. Sounds like patriarch BS to me. I have heard to dilute it because it may burn the plants. A good reference is The Humanure book which can be read on the internet for free.
          Cliff

          "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...> wrote:
          This is a bit embarrassing, but...
          Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?

          I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
          harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me why?

          I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic substance.

          Any knowledge on this subject?

          Thanks,
          a blushing,
          kate









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        • pollywog
          No need to be embarrassed. Pee on! Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 26, 2006
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            No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!

            Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and such, have
            serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual imbalances, or are voiding
            on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
            overload your soil's abiltiy to utilize your urine.

            If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle, you may want to
            stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud horses, or perhaps the occasional
            lonely dog. Aside from that, there is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
            unwanted constituents to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
            notwithstanding.

            Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output that would put a
            frat house to shame, there is no need to store or otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out,
            and let Mom Earth deal. She knows what she's doing.

            No toxins? No time? No worries. deb

            > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
            >
            > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
            > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil
            > > ammendment?
            > >
            > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that
            > > female urine will
            > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can
            > > anyone tell me why?
            >
          • Connie Kuramoto
            I love your response....right on...but is it organic? LOL Connie kurmoto ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com]
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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              I love your response....right on...but is it organic? LOL
              Connie kurmoto

              -----Original Message-----
              From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
              Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
              To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

              No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!

              Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
              such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
              imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
              bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
              abiltiy to utilize your urine.

              If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
              you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
              horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there is
              no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents to
              your urine beyond those of any other person- gender notwithstanding.

              Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output that
              would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or otherwise
              "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal. She knows what she's
              doing.

              No toxins? No time? No worries. deb

              > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
              >
              > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
              > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
              > >
              > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
              > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
              > > why?
              >






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            • Sergio Montinola
              Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement. Serge M. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

                Serge M.




                --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

                > I love your response....right on...but is it
                > organic? LOL
                > Connie kurmoto
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of pollywog
                > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
                >
                > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
                >
                > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
                > resultant toxins and
                > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
                > or other menstrual
                > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
                > (like a 1-gallon
                > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
                > overload your soil's
                > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
                >
                > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
                > perimenopausal cycle,
                > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
                > like bulls or stud
                > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
                > from that, there is
                > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
                > unwanted constituents to
                > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                > notwithstanding.
                >
                > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
                > have boku output that
                > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
                > store or otherwise
                > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
                > She knows what she's
                > doing.
                >
                > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
                >
                > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
                > soil ammendment?
                > > >
                > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
                > that female urine will
                > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
                > can anyone tell me
                > > > why?
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


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              • Connie Kuramoto
                Doesn t it depend on what the human is eating? Connie K. ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                  Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
                  Connie K.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio Montinola
                  Sent: January 27, 2006 12:29 PM
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

                  Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

                  Serge M.




                  --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

                  > I love your response....right on...but is it
                  > organic? LOL
                  > Connie kurmoto
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
                  > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                  > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
                  >
                  > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
                  >
                  > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
                  > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
                  > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
                  > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
                  > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
                  >
                  > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
                  > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
                  > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there
                  > is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents

                  > to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                  > notwithstanding.
                  >
                  > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output
                  > that would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or
                  > otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
                  > She knows what she's
                  > doing.
                  >
                  > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
                  >
                  > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                  > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
                  > soil ammendment?
                  > > >
                  > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
                  > that female urine will
                  > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
                  > can anyone tell me
                  > > > why?
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com



                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Sergio Montinola
                  Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                    Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing.

                    --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

                    > I love your response....right on...but is it
                    > organic? LOL
                    > Connie kurmoto
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of pollywog
                    > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                    > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
                    >
                    > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
                    >
                    > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
                    > resultant toxins and
                    > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
                    > or other menstrual
                    > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
                    > (like a 1-gallon
                    > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
                    > overload your soil's
                    > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
                    >
                    > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
                    > perimenopausal cycle,
                    > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
                    > like bulls or stud
                    > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
                    > from that, there is
                    > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
                    > unwanted constituents to
                    > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                    > notwithstanding.
                    >
                    > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
                    > have boku output that
                    > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
                    > store or otherwise
                    > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
                    > She knows what she's
                    > doing.
                    >
                    > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
                    >
                    > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                    > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
                    > soil ammendment?
                    > > >
                    > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
                    > that female urine will
                    > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
                    > can anyone tell me
                    > > > why?
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • pollywog
                    Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I hadn t started a flame war. I know, I shoulda thought of that
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
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                      Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I
                      hadn't started a flame war. <G> I know, I shoulda thought of that before I hit the "send"
                      button. I'm not known for foresight, though, mostly I'm known for saying "uh-oh. There
                      goes my mouth again!" after the fact, and when the armies of Armaggedon are ranking.
                      {;)

                      It strikes me that Katherine, being a lady who takes such care in the best utilization of
                      her output, would be just as careful, if not more, about her intake. She doesn't strike me
                      as the Twinkies for breadfast, Hershey bar and Fritos for lunch, Hormone-laced Breaded
                      Fried Pork Loin for dinner sort of eater.

                      I also would not be as worried about her food intake, as any meds she might be
                      injesting. There is a lot of change from food/liquid intake to final funnel-function
                      production, especially when we are talking about the chemical changes and extreme
                      filtering that happens in the overall system that produces, as it's final product, our urine.
                      Many meds are not so cleansed, however, and that may be problematic; but I still do not
                      see that one person's output (we humans produce about 50cc's of urine an hour, if
                      memory serves right) would make a big difference unless one is absolute purist.

                      I wouldn't even worry about her eating black walnuts and pouring her void on the tomato
                      plants. <G> deb

                      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Connie Kuramoto" <kuramoto@M...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
                      > Connie K.
                    • redlunarmoon
                      here s a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html ... Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
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                        here's a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html

                        ----------------------------------------------------------
                        Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting

                        MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
                        Co-ordinator CEDICAR and of the Urban Agriculture Network (Red Aguila
                        - Mexicana).
                        E-mail: farroyo@...

                        Experiments and tests using fermented human urine in the production of
                        legumes, medicinal and aromatic plants in containers, began 10 years
                        ago1 in the Rural Research and Training Centre A.C. (CEDICAR). This
                        cultivation system has been called "organoponics" or "urineponics". It
                        is a cost-effective system, saving money, water, and being capable of
                        producing an average of 25 kg of legumes per year per m2, and which
                        has been culturally accepted by most of the families and institutions
                        with which we have worked.

                        The main advantage of this cultivation system, especially where land
                        is scarce, is that after 10 months of growth, the initial substratum
                        has decomposed, resulting in compost, rich in organic matter.

                        Organoponics
                        The organoponic system developed in Mexico, mainly in urban areas, is
                        extremely simple. First, containers are filled with leaves and/or
                        grass trimmings up to 85% of their capacity. Then they are inoculated
                        with fermented urine and filled with an additional 15% of topsoil.
                        Finally, the seed is transplanted or sown.

                        Urine is fermented by placing one litre of urine in a container and
                        adding a spoonful of black soil, compost or vermicompost. It is left
                        to sit without cover for 28 days. The process is completed when the
                        smell of ammonia becomes pervasive and the colour changes from light
                        yellow to dark brown.

                        Use of the ferment:

                        * In organoponics, 3 litres per bucket with 19 litres of
                        compressed leaves, (15 litres per m2 of leaves, 20 cm deep). This is
                        the initial dose. Then, it is diluted at a ratio of 10:1, (10 parts
                        water to 1 part ferment). A quarter of a litre of this is applied per
                        bucket, three times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday).
                        * On the soil, it is applied combined with irrigation and/or
                        rainwater in doses still being tested for different crops.
                        Composting activator: as urine ferments, significant
                        populations of Actinomycets emerge, which are microorganisms
                        especially apt to degrade lignin and cellulose. For this reason, it
                        can be applied at a dose of 5 to 20 litres per m3 of carbon rich
                        material, to substitute and/or complement other manure.
                        Consult web page: www.laneta.apc.org/sarar

                        Environmental health
                        The use of urine as fertilizer highlights the added benefits of dry
                        toilets, as well as edible backyard and rooftop gardens. Families are
                        also encouraged to donate their urine to the municipal system for
                        treatment and use in peri urban agriculture.

                        Urine is innocuous, its use is guaranteed and carries no health
                        risks2. Most of the pathogens that cause human diseases die quickly
                        once urine leaves the body. If some subsist, the lactic bacteria and
                        the Actinomycets would destroy them during storage and during the
                        fermenting process.

                        Organoponics and other components of Urban Agriculture
                        The technique allows the recycling of organic matter (used as
                        substrata) and promotes the sorting of household wastes and the
                        development of household, neighbourhood and municipal composting
                        centres. It also saves water, promoting dry, urine-separating toilets,
                        which alleviates the accidental discharges from toilets and septic
                        tanks reaching water bodies, causing their eventual eutrophication.

                        Although household gardens are not conceived as a business or a small
                        undertaking, a 10 m2 garden can bring a family savings of 80 to 100
                        US$ per month. The household diet is improved as healthy and fresh
                        legumes become more easily available.

                        The practice can be used as participatory environmental education
                        process for the poorer segments of the population, which will
                        reinforce community ties and neighbourhood organizations. Gender
                        studies and surveys on the distribution of household work are being
                        conducted. The provision of support and incentives to environmentally
                        conscious families needs to be included in environment, public
                        service, health and economic policies of local authorities. It would
                        also be feasible and desirable, for local authorities to set up urban
                        agriculture divisions and integrate urban agriculture into municipal
                        agricultural initiatives. Having a municipal greenhouse and composting
                        centre that supplies seedlings and compost is, without doubt, a
                        strategic action that will help to achieve continuity and maintain
                        family gardens in good condition.

                        The use of human urine as fertilizer in urban agriculture requires
                        that it be developed as a local authority backed programme. Systems to
                        collect, transport, store, treat (ferment) and apply, need to be
                        developed. The same farmers interested in using urine can take part in
                        this programme and develop an enterprise for the handling both of
                        urine and faeces and their secondary treatments before being used as
                        fertilizers. The role of the municipality will be to facilitate these
                        activities and perhaps, find funds to partially subsidize the process.

                        Notes
                        1) Based on a brochure published by the State of California, USA,
                        written by Dr. Barbara Daniels (Fairfax California. USA, year unknown).
                        2) Vinneras Björn "Possibilities for sustainable nutrient recycling by
                        fecal separation combined with urine diversion. Doctoral thesis.
                        Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences. Uppsala 2002.
                        Esrey A. Steve, et.al. "Cerrando el Ciclo. Saneamiento ecológico para
                        la seguridad alimentaria. UNDP-SIDA. Mexico, 2001.
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