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As an aside...

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  • Katherine T.
    This is a bit embarrassing, but... Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment? I was told that only male urine can be used, that female
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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      This is a bit embarrassing, but...
      Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?

      I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
      harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me why?

      I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic substance.

      Any knowledge on this subject?

      Thanks,
      a blushing,
      kate
    • Thavisak Thavornrat
      According to my experiences both can be used only you have to leave it for a while. Using it instantly and with high quantity both can harm your plant. I leave
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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        According to my experiences both can be used only you
        have to leave it for a while. Using it instantly and
        with high quantity both can harm your plant. I leave
        it for about 15 days.

        Thavisak Thavornrat
        Thailand

        --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...> wrote:

        > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
        > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil
        > ammendment?
        >
        > I was told that only male urine can be used, that
        > female urine will
        > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can
        > anyone tell me why?
        >
        > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is
        > a toxic substance.
        >
        > Any knowledge on this subject?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > a blushing,
        > kate
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        Thavisakt Thavornrat
        10/12 Cholcharoen Soi 1,Boryang, Muang District,Songkhla Province 90000
        Thailand
        Tel Mobile 06 9653769, Home 074 321195

        __________________________________________________
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      • torskel87
        Katherine You can use both female and male urine for thr plants, you have to accumalate at least 10 litters, put some sugar in it so it ferments faster, after
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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          Katherine
          You can use both female and male urine for thr plants, you have to
          accumalate at least 10 litters, put some sugar in it so it ferments
          faster, after of like 15 days it will be stinking, and you can use
          it, you must disolve 1 of thisfermented urine in 10 of water, and it
          will help a lot to the plants.Urine is not in anyway a toxic
          product, now its even used for healing many illness drinking it.
          Urine is the bless of the heaven it is so usefull.
          vic




          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine T."
          <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
          >
          > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
          > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
          >
          > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
          will
          > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
          why?
          >
          > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
          substance.
          >
          > Any knowledge on this subject?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > a blushing,
          > kate
          >
        • cliff davis
          We use human urine. The npk is something like 6/3/3 so it is a great fertilizer. I am not sure about female urine being unusable. Sounds like patriarch BS
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 25, 2006
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            We use human urine. The npk is something like 6/3/3 so it is a great fertilizer. I am not sure about female urine being unusable. Sounds like patriarch BS to me. I have heard to dilute it because it may burn the plants. A good reference is The Humanure book which can be read on the internet for free.
            Cliff

            "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@...> wrote:
            This is a bit embarrassing, but...
            Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?

            I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
            harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me why?

            I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic substance.

            Any knowledge on this subject?

            Thanks,
            a blushing,
            kate









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          • diebrand
            Kate, Urine is probably OK if not applied in high concentrations. I don t know if there is a difference between male and female urine. I rather doubt it. I
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 26, 2006
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              Kate,

              Urine is probably OK if not applied in high concentrations. I don't
              know if there is a difference between male and female urine. I
              rather doubt it. I guess it more depends on what a person ingests.

              Dieter

              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Katherine T."
              <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
              >
              > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
              > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
              >
              > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine
              will
              > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
              why?
              >
              > I have been saving my urine but now wonder if it is a toxic
              substance.
              >
              > Any knowledge on this subject?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > a blushing,
              > kate
              >
            • pollywog
              No need to be embarrassed. Pee on! Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 26, 2006
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                No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!

                Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and such, have
                serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual imbalances, or are voiding
                on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
                overload your soil's abiltiy to utilize your urine.

                If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle, you may want to
                stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud horses, or perhaps the occasional
                lonely dog. Aside from that, there is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
                unwanted constituents to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                notwithstanding.

                Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output that would put a
                frat house to shame, there is no need to store or otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out,
                and let Mom Earth deal. She knows what she's doing.

                No toxins? No time? No worries. deb

                > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                >
                > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil
                > > ammendment?
                > >
                > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that
                > > female urine will
                > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can
                > > anyone tell me why?
                >
              • Connie Kuramoto
                I love your response....right on...but is it organic? LOL Connie kurmoto ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com]
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                  I love your response....right on...but is it organic? LOL
                  Connie kurmoto

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
                  Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

                  No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!

                  Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
                  such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
                  imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
                  bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
                  abiltiy to utilize your urine.

                  If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
                  you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
                  horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there is
                  no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents to
                  your urine beyond those of any other person- gender notwithstanding.

                  Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output that
                  would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or otherwise
                  "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal. She knows what she's
                  doing.

                  No toxins? No time? No worries. deb

                  > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                  > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a soil ammendment?
                  > >
                  > > I was told that only male urine can be used, that female urine will
                  > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and can anyone tell me
                  > > why?
                  >






                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Sergio Montinola
                  Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement. Serge M. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                    Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

                    Serge M.




                    --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

                    > I love your response....right on...but is it
                    > organic? LOL
                    > Connie kurmoto
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of pollywog
                    > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                    > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
                    >
                    > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
                    >
                    > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
                    > resultant toxins and
                    > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
                    > or other menstrual
                    > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
                    > (like a 1-gallon
                    > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
                    > overload your soil's
                    > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
                    >
                    > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
                    > perimenopausal cycle,
                    > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
                    > like bulls or stud
                    > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
                    > from that, there is
                    > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
                    > unwanted constituents to
                    > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                    > notwithstanding.
                    >
                    > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
                    > have boku output that
                    > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
                    > store or otherwise
                    > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
                    > She knows what she's
                    > doing.
                    >
                    > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
                    >
                    > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                    > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
                    > soil ammendment?
                    > > >
                    > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
                    > that female urine will
                    > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
                    > can anyone tell me
                    > > > why?
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


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                  • Connie Kuramoto
                    Doesn t it depend on what the human is eating? Connie K. ... From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                      Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
                      Connie K.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sergio Montinola
                      Sent: January 27, 2006 12:29 PM
                      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...

                      Nothing can be more organic than human axcrement.

                      Serge M.




                      --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

                      > I love your response....right on...but is it
                      > organic? LOL
                      > Connie kurmoto
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pollywog
                      > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                      > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
                      >
                      > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
                      >
                      > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the resultant toxins and
                      > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal or other menstrual
                      > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot (like a 1-gallon
                      > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to overload your soil's
                      > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
                      >
                      > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or perimenopausal cycle,
                      > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds like bulls or stud
                      > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside from that, there
                      > is no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise unwanted constituents

                      > to your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                      > notwithstanding.
                      >
                      > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you have boku output
                      > that would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to store or
                      > otherwise "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
                      > She knows what she's
                      > doing.
                      >
                      > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
                      >
                      > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                      > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
                      > soil ammendment?
                      > > >
                      > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
                      > that female urine will
                      > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
                      > can anyone tell me
                      > > > why?
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Sergio Montinola
                      Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 27, 2006
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                        Nature is perfect, allow it to do its thing.

                        --- Connie Kuramoto <kuramoto@...> wrote:

                        > I love your response....right on...but is it
                        > organic? LOL
                        > Connie kurmoto
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        > Of pollywog
                        > Sent: January 26, 2006 6:43 PM
                        > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: As an aside...
                        >
                        > No need to be embarrassed. Pee on!
                        >
                        > Unless you drink a ponykeg a day and have the
                        > resultant toxins and
                        > such, have serious (I mean, lethal point) hormonal
                        > or other menstrual
                        > imbalances, or are voiding on an extremely tiny plot
                        > (like a 1-gallon
                        > bucket?), there is not a way you are going to
                        > overload your soil's
                        > abiltiy to utilize your urine.
                        >
                        > If you are at certain times in the menstrual or
                        > perimenopausal cycle,
                        > you may want to stay away from rutting 4-leggeds
                        > like bulls or stud
                        > horses, or perhaps the occasional lonely dog. Aside
                        > from that, there is
                        > no toxic, unsavory, unhealthful, or otherwise
                        > unwanted constituents to
                        > your urine beyond those of any other person- gender
                        > notwithstanding.
                        >
                        > Urine is't exaclty anhydrous nitrogen- unless you
                        > have boku output that
                        > would put a frat house to shame, there is no need to
                        > store or otherwise
                        > "mellow" it. Pour it out, and let Mom Earth deal.
                        > She knows what she's
                        > doing.
                        >
                        > No toxins? No time? No worries. deb
                        >
                        > > --- "Katherine T." <BeltaineBabe@g...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > This is a bit embarrassing, but...
                        > > > Can anyone tell me about using human urine as a
                        > soil ammendment?
                        > > >
                        > > > I was told that only male urine can be used,
                        > that female urine will
                        > > > harm fruit trees and plants. Is this right and
                        > can anyone tell me
                        > > > why?
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      • pollywog
                        Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I hadn t started a flame war. I know, I shoulda thought of that
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
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                          Hi Connie! Thanks for your comment on my original reply, I was hoping, after I sent it, I
                          hadn't started a flame war. <G> I know, I shoulda thought of that before I hit the "send"
                          button. I'm not known for foresight, though, mostly I'm known for saying "uh-oh. There
                          goes my mouth again!" after the fact, and when the armies of Armaggedon are ranking.
                          {;)

                          It strikes me that Katherine, being a lady who takes such care in the best utilization of
                          her output, would be just as careful, if not more, about her intake. She doesn't strike me
                          as the Twinkies for breadfast, Hershey bar and Fritos for lunch, Hormone-laced Breaded
                          Fried Pork Loin for dinner sort of eater.

                          I also would not be as worried about her food intake, as any meds she might be
                          injesting. There is a lot of change from food/liquid intake to final funnel-function
                          production, especially when we are talking about the chemical changes and extreme
                          filtering that happens in the overall system that produces, as it's final product, our urine.
                          Many meds are not so cleansed, however, and that may be problematic; but I still do not
                          see that one person's output (we humans produce about 50cc's of urine an hour, if
                          memory serves right) would make a big difference unless one is absolute purist.

                          I wouldn't even worry about her eating black walnuts and pouring her void on the tomato
                          plants. <G> deb

                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Connie Kuramoto" <kuramoto@M...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Doesn't it depend on what the human is eating?
                          > Connie K.
                        • redlunarmoon
                          here s a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html ... Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 28, 2006
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                            here's a good article from http://www.ruaf.org/no10/29_mexico.html

                            ----------------------------------------------------------
                            Organoponics - the Use of Human Urine in Composting

                            MC. Francisco J. Arroyo G.D.
                            Co-ordinator CEDICAR and of the Urban Agriculture Network (Red Aguila
                            - Mexicana).
                            E-mail: farroyo@...

                            Experiments and tests using fermented human urine in the production of
                            legumes, medicinal and aromatic plants in containers, began 10 years
                            ago1 in the Rural Research and Training Centre A.C. (CEDICAR). This
                            cultivation system has been called "organoponics" or "urineponics". It
                            is a cost-effective system, saving money, water, and being capable of
                            producing an average of 25 kg of legumes per year per m2, and which
                            has been culturally accepted by most of the families and institutions
                            with which we have worked.

                            The main advantage of this cultivation system, especially where land
                            is scarce, is that after 10 months of growth, the initial substratum
                            has decomposed, resulting in compost, rich in organic matter.

                            Organoponics
                            The organoponic system developed in Mexico, mainly in urban areas, is
                            extremely simple. First, containers are filled with leaves and/or
                            grass trimmings up to 85% of their capacity. Then they are inoculated
                            with fermented urine and filled with an additional 15% of topsoil.
                            Finally, the seed is transplanted or sown.

                            Urine is fermented by placing one litre of urine in a container and
                            adding a spoonful of black soil, compost or vermicompost. It is left
                            to sit without cover for 28 days. The process is completed when the
                            smell of ammonia becomes pervasive and the colour changes from light
                            yellow to dark brown.

                            Use of the ferment:

                            * In organoponics, 3 litres per bucket with 19 litres of
                            compressed leaves, (15 litres per m2 of leaves, 20 cm deep). This is
                            the initial dose. Then, it is diluted at a ratio of 10:1, (10 parts
                            water to 1 part ferment). A quarter of a litre of this is applied per
                            bucket, three times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday).
                            * On the soil, it is applied combined with irrigation and/or
                            rainwater in doses still being tested for different crops.
                            Composting activator: as urine ferments, significant
                            populations of Actinomycets emerge, which are microorganisms
                            especially apt to degrade lignin and cellulose. For this reason, it
                            can be applied at a dose of 5 to 20 litres per m3 of carbon rich
                            material, to substitute and/or complement other manure.
                            Consult web page: www.laneta.apc.org/sarar

                            Environmental health
                            The use of urine as fertilizer highlights the added benefits of dry
                            toilets, as well as edible backyard and rooftop gardens. Families are
                            also encouraged to donate their urine to the municipal system for
                            treatment and use in peri urban agriculture.

                            Urine is innocuous, its use is guaranteed and carries no health
                            risks2. Most of the pathogens that cause human diseases die quickly
                            once urine leaves the body. If some subsist, the lactic bacteria and
                            the Actinomycets would destroy them during storage and during the
                            fermenting process.

                            Organoponics and other components of Urban Agriculture
                            The technique allows the recycling of organic matter (used as
                            substrata) and promotes the sorting of household wastes and the
                            development of household, neighbourhood and municipal composting
                            centres. It also saves water, promoting dry, urine-separating toilets,
                            which alleviates the accidental discharges from toilets and septic
                            tanks reaching water bodies, causing their eventual eutrophication.

                            Although household gardens are not conceived as a business or a small
                            undertaking, a 10 m2 garden can bring a family savings of 80 to 100
                            US$ per month. The household diet is improved as healthy and fresh
                            legumes become more easily available.

                            The practice can be used as participatory environmental education
                            process for the poorer segments of the population, which will
                            reinforce community ties and neighbourhood organizations. Gender
                            studies and surveys on the distribution of household work are being
                            conducted. The provision of support and incentives to environmentally
                            conscious families needs to be included in environment, public
                            service, health and economic policies of local authorities. It would
                            also be feasible and desirable, for local authorities to set up urban
                            agriculture divisions and integrate urban agriculture into municipal
                            agricultural initiatives. Having a municipal greenhouse and composting
                            centre that supplies seedlings and compost is, without doubt, a
                            strategic action that will help to achieve continuity and maintain
                            family gardens in good condition.

                            The use of human urine as fertilizer in urban agriculture requires
                            that it be developed as a local authority backed programme. Systems to
                            collect, transport, store, treat (ferment) and apply, need to be
                            developed. The same farmers interested in using urine can take part in
                            this programme and develop an enterprise for the handling both of
                            urine and faeces and their secondary treatments before being used as
                            fertilizers. The role of the municipality will be to facilitate these
                            activities and perhaps, find funds to partially subsidize the process.

                            Notes
                            1) Based on a brochure published by the State of California, USA,
                            written by Dr. Barbara Daniels (Fairfax California. USA, year unknown).
                            2) Vinneras Björn "Possibilities for sustainable nutrient recycling by
                            fecal separation combined with urine diversion. Doctoral thesis.
                            Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences. Uppsala 2002.
                            Esrey A. Steve, et.al. "Cerrando el Ciclo. Saneamiento ecológico para
                            la seguridad alimentaria. UNDP-SIDA. Mexico, 2001.
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