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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming in a Mediterranean climate

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  • partha biswas,9830511359
    dear dieter, May I know that,which place you are doing natural farming? Regards Partha biswas from India.. ... Partha Biswas, National Park, PO-Naihati,
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 30, 2005
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      dear dieter,

      May I know that,which place you are doing natural
      farming?

      Regards
      Partha biswas from India..

      --- diebrand <diebrand@...> wrote:

      > Paola,
      >
      > Sorry about my late reply. I live in a remote
      > location without
      > phone line and only access the Internet once a week.
      >
      > Many thanks for your advice. I will try to contact
      > the people you
      > mentioned.
      >
      > > … I doubt I can be good enough at making very hot
      > compost to be
      > sure I get rid of the risks of carrying the disease
      > into the next
      > season (I'm a beginner anyway). …
      >
      > Most germs are killed off at about 55 deg. C. I
      > usually get there
      > in less than a week. It's not that difficult to do,
      > all you need is
      > a thermometer. I build rows 1.50 m wide by 1.50 m
      > tall and as long
      > as I like. If you have old compost to use with the
      > new material you
      > can usually get usable material within 3 to 6
      > months. And if you
      > mix dry material with green stuff you don't need to
      > worry about the
      > exact C/N ratio. At first I worried about using
      > infected materials,
      > but now I use everything organic except crab grass,
      > which I soak in
      > water for a while. Right now I'm trying to find a
      > way between `heap
      > composting' and the `surface composting' used in
      > Natural Farming,
      > since I'm not sure the latter is suitable for local
      > climatic
      > conditions.
      >
      > > … I guess that if we take the natural philosophy
      > too strictly, we
      > have to come to the conclusion of letting the fungal
      > diseases wipe
      > out the vegetables they feed on, and themselves as a
      > consequence,
      > after many years the environment here will be clean
      > of both, and
      > then better we go on with local species and forget
      > about tomato and
      > potato. …
      >
      > Most of the problems (fungus, pests, etc.) on our
      > property are
      > because the land has been abandoned for many years.
      > I think we
      > should not let ourselves be made paranoid by the
      > idea that 'all that
      > goes wrong in the garden' is our own fault. It is
      > more a matter of
      > learning by and by how to take care of the problems
      > in an
      > intelligent way.
      >
      > > … We are in the process of getting a national park
      > established
      > here, … if you have texts (you quoted press
      > articles) pointing out
      > to these situations, send them to me, because I'm in
      > the phase of
      > giving feedback to the federal government here on
      > the proposed law,
      > and overall project. …
      >
      > We don't get too many newspapers in our nook of the
      > woods. I was
      > referring to reports on the radio. If I can find
      > something on the
      > net I will let you know. Off the cuff, I remember
      > that wildfires in
      > the Serra da Arrabida (one of Portugal's more
      > prestigious national
      > parks) stayed in the headlines during much of the
      > Summer. I believe
      > the Serra da Estrela was also affected. Last year
      > the Monchique,
      > much of which is under protection, was destroyed by
      > wildfires.
      >
      > Regards, Dieter
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Partha Biswas, National Park, PO-Naihati, Dt.-N.24 Pargs,743165,Ph.-9830511359





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    • diebrand
      Partha, I live in the Alentejo region in the South of Portugal. It would be more correct to say that I m still trying to do Natural Farming, but haven t found
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 2, 2005
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        Partha,

        I live in the Alentejo region in the South of Portugal. It would be
        more correct to say that I'm still trying to do Natural Farming, but
        haven't found a way of adapting Fukuoka's method to the local
        climate yet.

        Dieter

        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "partha biswas,9830511359"
        <kothae@y...> wrote:
        >
        > dear dieter,
        >
        > May I know that,which place you are doing natural
        > farming?
        >
        > Regards
        > Partha biswas from India..
      • My Boy
        hi, Just wanted to make a quick point about a post you made last month. Phytophthora is the potato blight, originally, the one which caused the Irish famine.
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 18, 2005
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          hi,

          Just wanted to make a quick point about a post you
          made last month.

          Phytophthora is the potato blight, originally, the one
          which caused the
          Irish famine. And potato, like tomato, is NOT original
          from Europe.

          that is to say that the potato blight was not possible
          for the Irish famine.

          that's all.
          very interesting information and I agree with the
          points that you're making.
          I guess the only thing I might add to that is that, I
          think, it is almost impossible to treat diseases
          individually nothing all you can do is work are on
          developing your soil.
          Which basically means green manuring and mulching till
          you're blue in the face.

          All the best,
          Niels

          --- Paola Lucchesi <paola.lucchesi@...>
          wrote:


          ---------------------------------
          Dieter, perhaps you could try to contact Richard Wade,
          who has a
          permaculture centre in Spain.

          wade@...

          He's often in Italy, though, he's mentoring most of
          our Italian
          permaculturalists and teaching courses there, so
          insist if he doesn't answer
          at once. I might have his cellphone number too,
          somewhere, or I can ask
          common friends. There are also some web pages for
          their place (Permacultura
          Montsant) at http://www.permacultura-montsant.org/

          Richard and Ines should be able to give you specific
          advice on arid climates
          situations.

          And I've just remembered that Fortunato and Anna, who
          are among Emilia
          Hazelip's disciples, have worked in several projects
          in Spain. You can reach
          them at the address:

          kanbio@...


          I know what you mean about the difference between
          theory and practice, I am
          not getting very far with my tomato blight enquiries
          ;-) Also, specific
          local conditions are veeeery important. Originally, I
          am from a
          water-problematic region, not only for its
          Mediterrenean climate but also
          because of the carsic structure of the soil and
          underground, so I was
          sensitive to the water-conservation, e.g. keeping the
          soil moist, part of
          the story. But it backfired having moved to a very
          humid place. We are
          blessed by abundance of water here, a major river,
          plenty of streams and
          sources, frequent rains, overnight humudity... And a
          completely opposite set
          of problems: fungal disease above all. So I did
          mistakes like planting
          tomatoes too close, and found out too late that I
          didn't need to worry about
          dry soil, rather about infection spreading. I'm
          currently researching the
          question of spores surviving the winter and I'm
          desperate about all the
          biomass laying around (falling leaves), which is
          infected by all sorts of
          fungi and moulds. Some I can identify, of others I'm
          not sure, and I doubt I
          can be good enough at making very hot compost to be
          sure I get rid of the
          risks of carrying the disease into the next season
          (I'm a beginner anyway).

          Now, very probably something is out of balance here,
          in the sense that there
          should not be so much of this type of disease. I
          observe the difference
          between the wild and the "domesticated" plants, the
          wild being usually
          healthy close to the infected domesticated. But now,
          the wild plants have
          taken it up too, and this is quite worrying. I
          mentioned the broadleaf dock
          and dandelion, but even some stinging nettle has been
          involved! It's sort of
          scary. To say nothing of all the trees around. There
          are some beautiful
          apples and peer trees around the garden here (planted
          by my landlords years
          ago), and they are all sick, and scattering around
          masses of sick leaves.
          Hmmm, even if I wanted to do something about it,
          there's no question of
          spraying any helping preparations (we have planty of
          horsetail around, which
          could help) on those giants, too tall, too many
          branches... And we are in a
          context of small houses with gardens, all around, so
          spores can easily
          travel from one patch to the other, it's really a
          community issue.

          Phytophthora is the potato blight, originally, the one
          which caused the
          Irish famine. And potato, like tomato, is NOT original
          from Europe. So I
          guess the true root of the problem is that we are
          dealing with imported
          species which were never really meant for this
          climate, nor is the
          environment here "programmed" to deal with their
          pathologies and reestablish
          a balance by itself, so the original imbalance is many
          centuries old, but it
          becomes apparent now, when these cultures have spread
          to wide extensions.

          I guess that if we take the natural philosophy too
          strictly, we have to come
          to the conclusion of letting the fungal diseases wipe
          out the vegetables
          they feed on, and themselves as a consequence, after
          many years the
          environment here will be clean of both, and then
          better we go on with local
          species and forget about tomato and potato.

          OR we stay aware that we are forcing Mother Nature's
          hand a little bit and
          try to find some acceptable and workable compromise.

          We are in the process of getting a national park
          established here, and I
          understand Dieter's point perfectly and have similar
          worries for a series of
          areas which are actually inhabited (or were before the
          war - we are in
          Bosnia), so there has been agriculture and cattle
          breeding there for
          centuries. The guys who did the feasibility study seem
          to have been very
          superficial on that, didn't really explore the area
          thoroughly, which is a
          returnee's area with people slowly going back to their
          villages. There are
          ideas of a "zero area" (total protection, everything
          forbidden) to be
          established were it really shouldn't be, since it's
          not total wilderness but
          a mixed ecosystem, of which humans have been a part
          for a long time.

          So please, Dieter, if you have texts (you quoted press
          articles) pointing
          out to these situations, send them to me, because I'm
          in the phase of giving
          feedback to the federal government here on the
          proposed law, and overall
          project.

          paola



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