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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Digest Number 999

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  • Thomas Younger
    I have truly enjoyed reading the discussion on weeds on two counts. Firstly for my natural areas the patch of sun roots have established themselves and their
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 24, 2005
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      I have truly enjoyed reading the discussion on weeds
      on two counts. Firstly for my natural areas the patch
      of sun roots have established themselves and their
      cousins the thistles in a variety of forms are the
      main group that I try to keep from going to seed for
      they are dominating the area at present. Scything an
      area just as it flowers I have found effective for the
      stalks wither without going to seed if scythed early
      enough. If left too late the flowers will turn into
      seeds on the cut stalks. What has not worked and has
      taken a lot more energy including fossil fuel is to
      mow regularly a patch of thistle and grass. Once the
      mowing is left off for a period of 3 weeks the thistle
      adapts and sets seed at a lower level. I will plant
      out this years sun root harvest in the thickest
      patches of thistle to see how they fare agaist their
      cousins. Does anyone know of a tough cousin of the
      thistle that would be low growing enough to be used as
      a play area?
      Secondly the weeds are the masters when trying to work
      with a traditional garden. Our small traditional
      garden succeeded in giving a bumper crop of lambs
      quarters and pigweed with seed that was waiting
      patiently for years for the ground to be tilled but
      few traditionally spaced plants could compete without
      weeding. I weeded after taking a crop of
      lambsquarters but it was too late for the other crops.


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      >
      > There are 9 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. Re: fig trees
      > From: "Beatrice Gilboa"
      > <b.gilboa@...>
      > 2. fig tree in greenhouse?
      > From: Zack Domike <arcada888@...>
      > 3. Natural Gardening in An Arid Climate
      > From: "benonthenet"
      > <benonthenet@...>
      > 4. Re: fig trees
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
      > <instinct@...>
      > 5. Re: fig tree in greenhouse?
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
      > <instinct@...>
      > 6. Re: Natural Gardening in An Arid Climate
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
      > <instinct@...>
      > 7. Re: Natural Gardening in An Arid Climate
      > From: "Robin, Maya, or Napi"
      > <seafloorgarden@...>
      > 8. Re: fig trees
      > From: "Beatrice Gilboa"
      > <b.gilboa@...>
      > 9. Re: Re: weeds
      > From: Anders Skarlind
      > <Anders.Skalman@...>
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 21:36:34 +0200
      > From: "Beatrice Gilboa" <b.gilboa@...>
      > Subject: Re: fig trees
      >
      > >> did some of you notice the conditions and
      > companion plants
      > where figs are growing and reproducing wild ?
      >
      > Here fig trees are often seen growing in wild sapce
      > with almond trees.
      >
      > Maybe pomegranate tree would be also a good
      > companion...?
      >
      > Best wishes
      > Beatrice
      > Udim, Israel
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
      > From: Zack Domike <arcada888@...>
      > Subject: fig tree in greenhouse?
      >
      > Regarding fig trees, I would like to echo Jean
      > Claude's question with a further permutation for my
      > climate which is significantly colder than Victoria
      > Island, BC, where I believe Jean Claude is located.
      > It does not freeze very often here, but the summer
      > rarely gets above 18*C, or 65*F, for more than an
      > hour
      > at a time.
      >
      > Will fig trees thrive and produce in a tall
      > greenhouse? [I can bring bees in for the pollen
      > period.]
      >
      > Saludos de Puerto Montt, Chile, where we are
      > entering
      > a pleasant spring after a long wet spell.
      > Zachary
      >
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      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 3
      > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:36:29 -0000
      > From: "benonthenet" <benonthenet@...>
      > Subject: Natural Gardening in An Arid Climate
      >
      > After a hiatus from gardening for going on a year, I
      > need some advice. In my natural
      > (fukuokan) gardening as I practiced it in the past,
      > I did things as Mr. F did on his farm. Over
      > time I modified things so that I'd plant in blocks
      > instead of simply casting out seed at
      > random. I also came up with a planting calendar that
      > works in my Southern California climate
      > allowing me to rely only on rainfall for irrigation.
      >
      >
      > However, I maintained the practiced of leaving plant
      > matter from the garden and
      > compostables from the kitchen on the ground to
      > compost in place. This only seemed to work
      > during the few weeks to months when we get rain.
      > Otherwise, the organic matter just sits
      > there on the ground without decomposing for a long
      > time (a year or more). There just isn't
      > enough water to break down organic matter quickly.
      > And in a small garden there isn't enough
      > space to put so much matter on the ground and have
      > the space usable and not unsightly.
      >
      > So how do I modify this practice to make it
      > practical? Should I go back to composting? What
      > are others in a similar climate doing.
      >
      > Please help! :-)
      >
      > Benjamin
      > Long Beach, CA
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:17:40 -0700
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
      > <instinct@...>
      > Subject: Re: fig trees
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> did some of you notice the conditions and
      > companion plants
      > > where figs are growing and reproducing wild ?
      > >
      > > Here fig trees are often seen growing in wild
      > sapce with almond trees.
      > >
      > > Maybe pomegranate tree would be also a good
      > companion...?
      >
      > thank you for that, i was also more curious about
      > smaller companion plants
      > from ground cover to small bushes .did you notice
      > something?
      > jean-claude
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 5
      > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:22:52 -0700
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
      > <instinct@...>
      > Subject: Re: fig tree in greenhouse?
      >
      >
      >
      > > Regarding fig trees, I would like to echo Jean
      > > Claude's question with a further permutation for
      > my
      > > climate which is significantly colder than
      > Victoria
      > > Island, BC, where I believe Jean Claude is
      > located.
      > > It does not freeze very often here, but the summer
      > > rarely gets above 18*C, or 65*F, for more than an
      > hour
      > > at a time.
      > >
      > > Will fig trees thrive and produce in a tall
      > > greenhouse? [I can bring bees in for the pollen
      > > period.]
      > >
      > >
      > it might be your only chance and yes i think they
      > will get warm enough to
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • Anders Skarlind
      Thomas were are you situated? How is soil, soil structure, drainage, landscape/topography? What kind of thistle do you have? I have mainly Cirsium arvense and
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 26, 2005
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        Thomas
        were are you situated? How is soil, soil structure, drainage,
        landscape/topography?

        What kind of thistle do you have? I have mainly Cirsium arvense and a few
        Sonchus species. I think these species are hard competitors in gardens and
        fileds. Cirsium indicate packed soil, which could lie quite deep, and it
        can also be helpful in breaking up that soil. As for Sonchus I am not sure,
        but they rapidly invade bare soil, and I expect especially if something is
        not quite in balance.

        I have a very small patch with sunroot and Cirsium arvense. Last year
        Cirium had a little overhand while sunroot survived. This year it is
        opposite roles, with the help of a little weeding. Probably sunroot will
        take over. It is very strong.

        I talked to my friend Paul Teepen who have made some experiments with
        natural farming and plan some new too. He says that biggest obstacle to
        natural farming here in Sweden is perennial weeds with strong root systems
        (we call them root weeds), and what lies behind this is bad soil structure.
        I think he is right, although some factors I mentioned in earlier emails
        may also be of importance.

        I will dig a few holes to check soil structure and humus etc when I get
        time. As deep as I can come without too much effort.

        Anders Skarlind, Sweden


        At 23:44 2005-08-24, you wrote:
        >I have truly enjoyed reading the discussion on weeds
        >on two counts. Firstly for my natural areas the patch
        >of sun roots have established themselves and their
        >cousins the thistles in a variety of forms are the
        >main group that I try to keep from going to seed for
        >they are dominating the area at present. Scything an
        >area just as it flowers I have found effective for the
        >stalks wither without going to seed if scythed early
        >enough. If left too late the flowers will turn into
        >seeds on the cut stalks. What has not worked and has
        >taken a lot more energy including fossil fuel is to
        >mow regularly a patch of thistle and grass. Once the
        >mowing is left off for a period of 3 weeks the thistle
        >adapts and sets seed at a lower level. I will plant
        >out this years sun root harvest in the thickest
        >patches of thistle to see how they fare agaist their
        >cousins. Does anyone know of a tough cousin of the
        >thistle that would be low growing enough to be used as
        >a play area?
        >Secondly the weeds are the masters when trying to work
        >with a traditional garden. Our small traditional
        >garden succeeded in giving a bumper crop of lambs
        >quarters and pigweed with seed that was waiting
        >patiently for years for the ground to be tilled but
        >few traditionally spaced plants could compete without
        >weeding. I weeded after taking a crop of
        >lambsquarters but it was too late for the other crops.
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