Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [fukuoka_farming] Digest Number 990

Expand Messages
  • Scott Devine
    Hey Gloria, in terms of cover crops to try in your climate, you could experiment with sunn hemp, tepary bean, mung bean, sorghum sudan grass, sunflowers,
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 14 7:06 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hey Gloria, in terms of cover crops to try in your climate, you could experiment with sunn hemp, tepary bean, mung bean, sorghum sudan grass, sunflowers, sesame, millet, cowpeas, velvet beans, jack beans.

      Scott Miguel
      Jinotepe, Carazo, Nicaragua
      www.abundancefarm.com

      fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      There are 2 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: intro and some philosophy
      From: "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
      2. adapting
      From: "garden03048"


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:28:03 -0000
      From: "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
      Subject: Re: intro and some philosophy

      Welcome Anders!

      I think it is true that we are less Fukuokan than we would like to be
      in many cases. Adapting his philosophies isn't easy depending on the
      climate. He lives in an area where it is far easier I believe.

      And yet....no matter how much I experiment with different things I
      still think he is right in his teachings. The problem is to come to
      the same place he is within our climates. We find impediments and
      try to use methods that make fixing those problems easier just as you
      are doing.

      I suspect when we finally "get it" we will discover how easy it was
      all along. It is the journey we are travelling for now to find that
      point.

      Another thing that makes it more difficult is the climate changes and
      oddities going on at the moment because of
      both global
      warming and/or the magnetic pole reversal of the Earth. I don't know
      if we have ever really had "normal" climate in our lifetimes since
      the changes have been going on for far longer than we suspected.

      I am going to try growing cover crops again here. I have had
      problems with them because they, for the most part, won't grow in the
      warm months of the year here in NorthCentral Texas. The only one I
      have had any success with so far is hairy vetch...and it dies out in
      the summer's heat eventually.

      The one thing I do know is that plants here do better if they have
      access to at least part shade from trees, or shrubs. Plants,
      particularly veggie, do far better out near the driplines of my trees
      than in the open.

      I still think that over history man has made plants adapt to where we
      want them to grow....and that that is why there is so much disease
      and insect problems.

      Gloria, Texas

      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Anders Skarlind
      wrote:
      > Hi folks
      > This is my first post to this list after lurking two years. I have
      a
      > household garden and I am doing much seed growing of veggies. I
      also now
      > and then grow grains in my garden. I live in Sweden, at 59 deg
      north. I
      > have tried to apply Fukuokas methods here but not been successful,
      and
      > reverted to more traditional methods. However I prefer to leave
      friendly
      > weeds when I weed and I use self-sowing of veggies sometimes. I
      till the
      > soil when I think I need to. I have clay soil that need autumn
      digging to
      > loosen it and improve winter freezing sometimes. Underlying problem
      is
      > insufficient drainage, that make humus and nutrients leach and soil
      pack.
      > With good drainage I would need to work the soil less. I am
      improving
      > drainage gradually but outlet possibilities are poor and natural
      drainage
      > almost nil.
      > One basic fact is that almost all vegetables and grains we grow
      have
      > developed far away from here, in warmer and also in most cases less
      humid
      > climate. But our weeds are well adapted and easily outgrows the
      cultivated
      > plants. What is really well adapted here is pasture and meadow and
      foraging
      > animals. Pasture plants are more or less domestic here and animals
      are well
      > adapted, especially if you keep landraces. I have no animals
      (except one
      > cat) but my interest in keeping animals is growing.
      >
      > My impression of this list is that it is difficult to follow
      Fukuoka. Takes
      > one local genius in every region to find methods in accordance with
      his
      > philosophy and even when and if this is done it will be difficult.
      My
      > impression is that the majority on this list are in reality
      followers of
      > Ruth Stout more than Masanobu Fukuoka, as you emphasise heavy
      mulching to
      > such a degree. I think it is more Fukuokan philosophy to use
      intelligent
      > and fairly mild methods to direct the weeds into playing
      constructive roles
      > in the garden, rather than choking them to death.
      >
      > However I think Fukuokas philosophy is a great contribution to us
      and it
      > will continue to inspire and challenge. The implementations of it
      will pop
      > up here and there. What impresses me most in Fukuokas philosophy is
      that it
      > is so universal and holistic. The no-till aspect may have been
      > overemphasised a bit. But low-till is coming more and more and this
      is very
      > good, fore energy saving, soil, climate, mycorrhiza etc. If we
      reach
      > no-till we will se. We have to be able to adapt and be practical
      and
      > philosophical rather than ideological. Such is the way of Fukuoka.
      >
      > Cheers
      > Anders Skarlind, Sweden




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:18:36 -0000
      From: "garden03048"
      Subject: adapting

      Anders,

      very interesting letter. I try to be mostly organic and 'natural',
      but we do have to adjust to reality.

      Sounds like you need raised beds if your drainage is that poor.

      Also, you might save seed from year to year and see gradual changes
      to better suit your climate. I sowed buckwheat as a cover crop a few
      years ago. I still get some volunteers coming up and they seem
      larger and hardier than the originals. Tomato seed is real easy to
      save from year to year. There may be other vegies that you can let
      go to seed. I admit I haven't done much. But experimenting is fun.

      Sometimes nature susprises us. After years of digging gladiola corms
      each Fall as all the books recommend, I was too lazy to do it last
      Fall. Much to my surprise, most came up this June even though in
      January we had sub zero weather with little or no snow cover. We
      don't always have to follow the book....

      anthony New Hampshire zone 5







      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________



      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Yahoo! Groups Links




      ------------------------------------------------------------------------




      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gloria C. Baikauskas
      Thanks, Scott. I will look into it. I am ready right now to find a source for some good seed. I have ordered my seed before from Seeds of Change. Gloria,
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 14 8:40 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Thanks, Scott. I will look into it. I am ready right now to find a
        source for some good seed. I have ordered my seed before from Seeds
        of Change.

        Gloria, Texas

        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Scott Devine
        <inroadsfarm@y...> wrote:
        > Hey Gloria, in terms of cover crops to try in your climate, you
        could experiment with sunn hemp, tepary bean, mung bean, sorghum
        sudan grass, sunflowers, sesame, millet, cowpeas, velvet beans, jack
        beans.
        >
        > Scott Miguel
        > Jinotepe, Carazo, Nicaragua
        > www.abundancefarm.com
        >
        > fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >
        > There are 2 messages in this issue.
        >
        > Topics in this digest:
        >
        > 1. Re: intro and some philosophy
        > From: "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
        > 2. adapting
        > From: "garden03048"
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > Message: 1
        > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:28:03 -0000
        > From: "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
        > Subject: Re: intro and some philosophy
        >
        > Welcome Anders!
        >
        > I think it is true that we are less Fukuokan than we would like to
        be
        > in many cases. Adapting his philosophies isn't easy depending on
        the
        > climate. He lives in an area where it is far easier I believe.
        >
        > And yet....no matter how much I experiment with different things I
        > still think he is right in his teachings. The problem is to come to
        > the same place he is within our climates. We find impediments and
        > try to use methods that make fixing those problems easier just as
        you
        > are doing.
        >
        > I suspect when we finally "get it" we will discover how easy it was
        > all along. It is the journey we are travelling for now to find that
        > point.
        >
        > Another thing that makes it more difficult is the climate changes
        and
        > oddities going on at the moment because of
        > both global
        > warming and/or the magnetic pole reversal of the Earth. I don't
        know
        > if we have ever really had "normal" climate in our lifetimes since
        > the changes have been going on for far longer than we suspected.
        >
        > I am going to try growing cover crops again here. I have had
        > problems with them because they, for the most part, won't grow in
        the
        > warm months of the year here in NorthCentral Texas. The only one I
        > have had any success with so far is hairy vetch...and it dies out
        in
        > the summer's heat eventually.
        >
        > The one thing I do know is that plants here do better if they have
        > access to at least part shade from trees, or shrubs. Plants,
        > particularly veggie, do far better out near the driplines of my
        trees
        > than in the open.
        >
        > I still think that over history man has made plants adapt to where
        we
        > want them to grow....and that that is why there is so much disease
        > and insect problems.
        >
        > Gloria, Texas
        >
        > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Anders Skarlind
        > wrote:
        > > Hi folks
        > > This is my first post to this list after lurking two years. I
        have
        > a
        > > household garden and I am doing much seed growing of veggies. I
        > also now
        > > and then grow grains in my garden. I live in Sweden, at 59 deg
        > north. I
        > > have tried to apply Fukuokas methods here but not been
        successful,
        > and
        > > reverted to more traditional methods. However I prefer to leave
        > friendly
        > > weeds when I weed and I use self-sowing of veggies sometimes. I
        > till the
        > > soil when I think I need to. I have clay soil that need autumn
        > digging to
        > > loosen it and improve winter freezing sometimes. Underlying
        problem
        > is
        > > insufficient drainage, that make humus and nutrients leach and
        soil
        > pack.
        > > With good drainage I would need to work the soil less. I am
        > improving
        > > drainage gradually but outlet possibilities are poor and natural
        > drainage
        > > almost nil.
        > > One basic fact is that almost all vegetables and grains we grow
        > have
        > > developed far away from here, in warmer and also in most cases
        less
        > humid
        > > climate. But our weeds are well adapted and easily outgrows the
        > cultivated
        > > plants. What is really well adapted here is pasture and meadow
        and
        > foraging
        > > animals. Pasture plants are more or less domestic here and
        animals
        > are well
        > > adapted, especially if you keep landraces. I have no animals
        > (except one
        > > cat) but my interest in keeping animals is growing.
        > >
        > > My impression of this list is that it is difficult to follow
        > Fukuoka. Takes
        > > one local genius in every region to find methods in accordance
        with
        > his
        > > philosophy and even when and if this is done it will be
        difficult.
        > My
        > > impression is that the majority on this list are in reality
        > followers of
        > > Ruth Stout more than Masanobu Fukuoka, as you emphasise heavy
        > mulching to
        > > such a degree. I think it is more Fukuokan philosophy to use
        > intelligent
        > > and fairly mild methods to direct the weeds into playing
        > constructive roles
        > > in the garden, rather than choking them to death.
        > >
        > > However I think Fukuokas philosophy is a great contribution to us
        > and it
        > > will continue to inspire and challenge. The implementations of it
        > will pop
        > > up here and there. What impresses me most in Fukuokas philosophy
        is
        > that it
        > > is so universal and holistic. The no-till aspect may have been
        > > overemphasised a bit. But low-till is coming more and more and
        this
        > is very
        > > good, fore energy saving, soil, climate, mycorrhiza etc. If we
        > reach
        > > no-till we will se. We have to be able to adapt and be practical
        > and
        > > philosophical rather than ideological. Such is the way of Fukuoka.
        > >
        > > Cheers
        > > Anders Skarlind, Sweden
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        > Message: 2
        > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:18:36 -0000
        > From: "garden03048"
        > Subject: adapting
        >
        > Anders,
        >
        > very interesting letter. I try to be mostly organic and 'natural',
        > but we do have to adjust to reality.
        >
        > Sounds like you need raised beds if your drainage is that poor.
        >
        > Also, you might save seed from year to year and see gradual changes
        > to better suit your climate. I sowed buckwheat as a cover crop a
        few
        > years ago. I still get some volunteers coming up and they seem
        > larger and hardier than the originals. Tomato seed is real easy to
        > save from year to year. There may be other vegies that you can let
        > go to seed. I admit I haven't done much. But experimenting is fun.
        >
        > Sometimes nature susprises us. After years of digging gladiola
        corms
        > each Fall as all the books recommend, I was too lazy to do it last
        > Fall. Much to my surprise, most came up this June even though in
        > January we had sub zero weather with little or no snow cover. We
        > don't always have to follow the book....
        >
        > anthony New Hampshire zone 5
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        __
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------
        ----
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.