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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Organic mentality

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  • les landeck
    Good Morning, i ll start at the end and go back to the beginning. selective organic to me is to only use items from the list of whats allowed under the organic
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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      Good Morning,

      i'll start at the end and go back to the beginning.
      selective organic to me is to only use items from the
      list of whats allowed under the organic standards that
      do not compromise the beliefs of those who i provide
      for. so no blood meal, bone meal, feather meal,fish
      emulsion,,killing sprays of any form including soap
      sprays. in the past i used two or three hundred pounds
      of rock power but found my heart was not in it, as for
      the destruction caused in mining. over the past twenty
      years this has been a slow learning.

      i do use chicken and horse manure mixed with rice
      hauls or fur shavings. but i have been concern the
      past six or eight years as to the things that may have
      been done to these resources like with mushroom
      compost,from 1986 into the early 90's i worked with
      this layering it on top the soil blocking the grasses
      and this stopped the need to turn the soil (tilling)
      it was a great help and a waste produce that i didn't
      want to see go to the dump. many times i questioned
      the people at the source as to how they handled and
      prepared this material, feeling that part of their
      story was missing i want down to their operation. they
      explained the steam process that seemed fine but when
      i questioned any other sprays that they might have
      been used their body language revealed something was
      not being told, i asked the same question three times
      each time the same reaction. i find it the same with
      many sources of composting supplies. before cars a
      market grower could take a load of produce to town and
      return with a load of horse manure. not sure how they
      cleaned the wagon? when we are concerned with the
      quality of the produce we provide to the children, the
      choices become very hard to sort out.

      as Fukuoka's system of returning the rice and barley
      straw to the field that is a form of layer composting.
      using small amounts over a number of years plus the
      clover in combination with the passive system of
      flooding the field thus causing the clover and other
      wild plants to giveway, he had a control system that
      modeled nature,no soil disruption (passive).

      i grow very few 120 day crops and no three acre fields
      of rice, nor do i have the water to flood the fields,
      they are sloped and full of golfer runs. just won't
      work.

      so the question was how can i extract Fukuoka's main
      points no till, passive and apply it in another form
      that would meet the needs of a market garden that
      required three to four rotations per bed per year. if
      the land did not cost so much we could make it on one
      or two rotations that would allow crop rotations of
      green manure plantings. But without the use of flood
      irrigation how could i cause the green manure crop to
      giveway into a clean seed bed as a tilled bed would
      look? so along comes the straw, it takes a lot of
      light straw to get old growth to giveway. mushroom and
      later horse manure with fur and pine shavings came
      later. this was put down on the first application in a
      six inch layer, that on the next rotation a wheel
      barrow of chicken manure per 400 square foot bed
      (4X100) and maybe two inches of mushroom compost over
      and ready to reseed. we need to note seed if we worked
      with large transplanting machines all of this might be
      different.

      with this we had a system that worked, the cost of
      importing was off set due to the lack of maintenance
      no hand weeding or hoeing. good trade. the problem
      came in finding stable, quality sources of compost
      supplies in the volume necessary to sustain our needs.

      i think this covers your two questions Jean-Claude.
      it's just how can we grow food for the children
      without offending the requirements of a vegan life
      style. i do this in respect for others i'm a bit more
      open in my eating habits but very narrow to many, are
      not we all?

      That last lap was quite a trip 589,000,000 miles, can
      you believe 18.51 miles per second. in only one year
      to get around the Sun. All of us riding together on
      this little ball of water, rock, soil, and Life.
      buckle up and enjoy the view. as we become aware of
      our traveling companions it's good to note our Solar
      systems speed of some 155 miles per second in our
      travels around the Milky Way. seems to be helping me
      bring things into perspective.

      Happy New Year All Les







      --- Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
      <instinct@...> wrote:

      > <i being a hard firm believer in passive growing
      > systems (selective organic choices)that cause me
      > much
      > stress when i look at what has been done to our
      > overwhelming abundance of resources here. Your point
      > of the mentality and understanding is well taken.
      > Need
      > to provide in some manor is also understood.
      > Knowledge
      > and improving choices over time is what brings
      > change.>
      >
      > could you explain what you mean by passive growing
      > system and selective organic choices ?
      >
      > jean-claude
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      >
      >








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    • lucia@lrw.net
      ... ahhh. I understand now. great picture! ... looks like an interesting enterprise, but I couldn t find anything concrete on the website about the health
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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        > No I don't tap the tree. I just hang bottles up on the trees branches.
        > It is hard to explain, I tried to draw some picture of it in Paint:
        > http://www.hot.ee/andre66/sap.jpg

        ahhh. I understand now. great picture!

        > The sap has health benefits, but I don't know excactly what are these
        > benefits. I have heard that it is good for immunity. In Karri Varpio's
        > mail is link about birch sap produce, on that page there are writen
        > some ingredients of this sap.

        looks like an interesting enterprise, but I couldn't find anything
        concrete on the website about the health benefits. they've written a book
        but it looks like it's only in Finnish. I'll search for something in
        English.

        thanks again!

        Lucia
      • EinuIf
        ... store [birch sap] ... I suspect that they sterilize the sap using ultraviolet light, ozone, or both -- the same way that chlorine-free tap-water treatment
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Karri Varpio"
          <karri.varpio@r...> wrote:
          >
          > http://www.aurinkolehto.fi/eng/index.htm has developed a method to
          store [birch sap]
          > without heating, but they keep their method as a secret.

          I suspect that they sterilize the sap using ultraviolet light, ozone,
          or both -- the same way that chlorine-free tap-water treatment is done.
        • lucia@lrw.net
          ok. I ve done some research on the net and some books such as Steve Brill s Edible and Medicinal Plants and found out that Black Birch/Sweet Birch/Betula
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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            ok. I've done some research on the net and some books such as Steve
            Brill's "Edible and Medicinal Plants" and found out that Black Birch/Sweet
            Birch/Betula Lenta has alot of nutrients. the barch provides beta
            carotene, calcium, vitamins B1 and B2, calcium, copper, iron, manganese,
            phosphorus, potassium, sodium, and silicon, xylithol, betulinal and
            glucoside. the inner bark can be eaten raw, ground into flour, or added to
            soups. I haven't found out what nutrients the sap contains, but drinking
            it raw is better than boiling it down into a highly concentrated sugar.

            several people mention making a tea by infusing the twigs but warn against
            boiling which would drive off the volatile wintergreen oils.

            has anyone done this? do you just let it sit in cold water? or pour warm
            water over it and let it sit? or gently heat to warm?

            Lucia
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