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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Organic mentality

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  • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
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      <i being a hard firm believer in passive growing
      systems (selective organic choices)that cause me much
      stress when i look at what has been done to our
      overwhelming abundance of resources here. Your point
      of the mentality and understanding is well taken. Need
      to provide in some manor is also understood. Knowledge
      and improving choices over time is what brings change.>

      could you explain what you mean by passive growing system and selective organic choices ?

      jean-claude

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andres Rattur
      Lucia wrote: I m not clear about this. you use the branch for a support for the bottle, but you still have to tap the tree somehow, right? No I don t tap the
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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        Lucia wrote:
        I'm not clear about this. you use the branch for a support for the bottle, but you still have to tap the tree somehow, right?

        No I don't tap the tree. I just hang bottles up on the trees branches. It is hard to explain, I tried to draw some picture of it in Paint: http://www.hot.ee/andre66/sap.jpg

        Explanation:
        1. I cut or brake two branches, which form V (or Y).
        2. I press these two branches together, so they can go through bottle's throttle.
        3. I push branch into bottle and before pressed branches go wider, so bottle won't fall of branch.
        4. Finally the bottle hangs on trees branch and every morning I collect sap into bigger container.


        I wonder if there are any health benefits to drinking this sap, or is it just a sugar high?
        The sap has health benefits, but I don't know excactly what are these benefits. I have heard that it is good for immunity. In Karri Varpio's mail is link about birch sap produce, on that page there are writen some ingredients of this sap.

        Thanks to Karri Varpio and EinuIf about interesting information.




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      • les landeck
        Good Morning, i ll start at the end and go back to the beginning. selective organic to me is to only use items from the list of whats allowed under the organic
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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          Good Morning,

          i'll start at the end and go back to the beginning.
          selective organic to me is to only use items from the
          list of whats allowed under the organic standards that
          do not compromise the beliefs of those who i provide
          for. so no blood meal, bone meal, feather meal,fish
          emulsion,,killing sprays of any form including soap
          sprays. in the past i used two or three hundred pounds
          of rock power but found my heart was not in it, as for
          the destruction caused in mining. over the past twenty
          years this has been a slow learning.

          i do use chicken and horse manure mixed with rice
          hauls or fur shavings. but i have been concern the
          past six or eight years as to the things that may have
          been done to these resources like with mushroom
          compost,from 1986 into the early 90's i worked with
          this layering it on top the soil blocking the grasses
          and this stopped the need to turn the soil (tilling)
          it was a great help and a waste produce that i didn't
          want to see go to the dump. many times i questioned
          the people at the source as to how they handled and
          prepared this material, feeling that part of their
          story was missing i want down to their operation. they
          explained the steam process that seemed fine but when
          i questioned any other sprays that they might have
          been used their body language revealed something was
          not being told, i asked the same question three times
          each time the same reaction. i find it the same with
          many sources of composting supplies. before cars a
          market grower could take a load of produce to town and
          return with a load of horse manure. not sure how they
          cleaned the wagon? when we are concerned with the
          quality of the produce we provide to the children, the
          choices become very hard to sort out.

          as Fukuoka's system of returning the rice and barley
          straw to the field that is a form of layer composting.
          using small amounts over a number of years plus the
          clover in combination with the passive system of
          flooding the field thus causing the clover and other
          wild plants to giveway, he had a control system that
          modeled nature,no soil disruption (passive).

          i grow very few 120 day crops and no three acre fields
          of rice, nor do i have the water to flood the fields,
          they are sloped and full of golfer runs. just won't
          work.

          so the question was how can i extract Fukuoka's main
          points no till, passive and apply it in another form
          that would meet the needs of a market garden that
          required three to four rotations per bed per year. if
          the land did not cost so much we could make it on one
          or two rotations that would allow crop rotations of
          green manure plantings. But without the use of flood
          irrigation how could i cause the green manure crop to
          giveway into a clean seed bed as a tilled bed would
          look? so along comes the straw, it takes a lot of
          light straw to get old growth to giveway. mushroom and
          later horse manure with fur and pine shavings came
          later. this was put down on the first application in a
          six inch layer, that on the next rotation a wheel
          barrow of chicken manure per 400 square foot bed
          (4X100) and maybe two inches of mushroom compost over
          and ready to reseed. we need to note seed if we worked
          with large transplanting machines all of this might be
          different.

          with this we had a system that worked, the cost of
          importing was off set due to the lack of maintenance
          no hand weeding or hoeing. good trade. the problem
          came in finding stable, quality sources of compost
          supplies in the volume necessary to sustain our needs.

          i think this covers your two questions Jean-Claude.
          it's just how can we grow food for the children
          without offending the requirements of a vegan life
          style. i do this in respect for others i'm a bit more
          open in my eating habits but very narrow to many, are
          not we all?

          That last lap was quite a trip 589,000,000 miles, can
          you believe 18.51 miles per second. in only one year
          to get around the Sun. All of us riding together on
          this little ball of water, rock, soil, and Life.
          buckle up and enjoy the view. as we become aware of
          our traveling companions it's good to note our Solar
          systems speed of some 155 miles per second in our
          travels around the Milky Way. seems to be helping me
          bring things into perspective.

          Happy New Year All Les







          --- Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
          <instinct@...> wrote:

          > <i being a hard firm believer in passive growing
          > systems (selective organic choices)that cause me
          > much
          > stress when i look at what has been done to our
          > overwhelming abundance of resources here. Your point
          > of the mentality and understanding is well taken.
          > Need
          > to provide in some manor is also understood.
          > Knowledge
          > and improving choices over time is what brings
          > change.>
          >
          > could you explain what you mean by passive growing
          > system and selective organic choices ?
          >
          > jean-claude
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >








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        • lucia@lrw.net
          ... ahhh. I understand now. great picture! ... looks like an interesting enterprise, but I couldn t find anything concrete on the website about the health
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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            > No I don't tap the tree. I just hang bottles up on the trees branches.
            > It is hard to explain, I tried to draw some picture of it in Paint:
            > http://www.hot.ee/andre66/sap.jpg

            ahhh. I understand now. great picture!

            > The sap has health benefits, but I don't know excactly what are these
            > benefits. I have heard that it is good for immunity. In Karri Varpio's
            > mail is link about birch sap produce, on that page there are writen
            > some ingredients of this sap.

            looks like an interesting enterprise, but I couldn't find anything
            concrete on the website about the health benefits. they've written a book
            but it looks like it's only in Finnish. I'll search for something in
            English.

            thanks again!

            Lucia
          • EinuIf
            ... store [birch sap] ... I suspect that they sterilize the sap using ultraviolet light, ozone, or both -- the same way that chlorine-free tap-water treatment
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Karri Varpio"
              <karri.varpio@r...> wrote:
              >
              > http://www.aurinkolehto.fi/eng/index.htm has developed a method to
              store [birch sap]
              > without heating, but they keep their method as a secret.

              I suspect that they sterilize the sap using ultraviolet light, ozone,
              or both -- the same way that chlorine-free tap-water treatment is done.
            • lucia@lrw.net
              ok. I ve done some research on the net and some books such as Steve Brill s Edible and Medicinal Plants and found out that Black Birch/Sweet Birch/Betula
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
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                ok. I've done some research on the net and some books such as Steve
                Brill's "Edible and Medicinal Plants" and found out that Black Birch/Sweet
                Birch/Betula Lenta has alot of nutrients. the barch provides beta
                carotene, calcium, vitamins B1 and B2, calcium, copper, iron, manganese,
                phosphorus, potassium, sodium, and silicon, xylithol, betulinal and
                glucoside. the inner bark can be eaten raw, ground into flour, or added to
                soups. I haven't found out what nutrients the sap contains, but drinking
                it raw is better than boiling it down into a highly concentrated sugar.

                several people mention making a tea by infusing the twigs but warn against
                boiling which would drive off the volatile wintergreen oils.

                has anyone done this? do you just let it sit in cold water? or pour warm
                water over it and let it sit? or gently heat to warm?

                Lucia
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