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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Maple-tapping, revisited

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  • Andres Rattur
    Hello, everybody! I live near Scandinavia, to the south from Finland, in Estonia! Here grows naturally four species of birch: Betula pendula, Betula pubescens,
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
      Hello, everybody!

      I live near Scandinavia, to the south from Finland, in Estonia!

      Here grows naturally four species of birch: Betula pendula, Betula pubescens, Betula fruticosa (Betula humilis), Betula nana and of course many introduced species.

      Mainly here in Estonia people take sap from Betula pendula and Acer platanoides (maple). Sap of maple is much sweeter than birch sap. When I have taken sap from birch, I have noticed that, the taste of it depends where current tree grows.

      I have usually collected birch sap by breaking v-shaped branch and putt this branch inside bottle so bottle is hanging on tree.
      Mostly I just drink this sap without making no preparation, but as it was mentioned earlier it is possible to make beer and other drinks. Unfortunately there isn't no such tree with a sap containing enough sugar to produce syrup, like there is in Canada.

      With best whishes,
      Andres Rattur!

      -----------------------------------------
      ITV - Sinu lemmiksaated internetis!
      http://www.itv.ee
    • pollywog
      ... concentrated, highly processed sugar is just as unhealthful as white sugar. Which, to me, means use in moderation only, just as with any sugar. deb In
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
        ---Not absolute toxicity, but, as Steve Brill says; "This
        concentrated, highly processed sugar is just as unhealthful as white
        sugar."

        Which, to me, means use in moderation only, just as with any sugar. deb

        In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
        <instinct@s...> wrote:
        >
        > do you know about any possible toxicity for humans in walnut sap?
        > jean-claude
        >
        >
      • Karri Varpio
        In Finland both B. pendula and B. pubescens are used for taking sap. Usually it is drunk as such, but one book said that it could also be boiled to syrup. It
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
          In Finland both B. pendula and B. pubescens are used for taking sap. Usually
          it is drunk as such, but one book said that it could also be boiled to
          syrup. It can be frozen or pasteurized to store it longer, but heating of
          course destroys some elements.
          http://www.aurinkolehto.fi/eng/index.htm has developed a method to store it
          without heating, but they keep their method as a secret. (Pages look
          business-orientated, but contain also information about birch sap.)

          Karri

          >
          > Hello, everybody!
          >
          > I live near Scandinavia, to the south from Finland, in Estonia!
          >
          > Here grows naturally four species of birch: Betula pendula,
          > Betula pubescens, Betula fruticosa (Betula humilis), Betula nana
          > and of course many introduced species.
          >
          > Mainly here in Estonia people take sap from Betula pendula and
          > Acer platanoides (maple). Sap of maple is much sweeter than birch
          > sap. When I have taken sap from birch, I have noticed that, the
          > taste of it depends where current tree grows.
          >
          > I have usually collected birch sap by breaking v-shaped branch
          > and putt this branch inside bottle so bottle is hanging on tree.
          > Mostly I just drink this sap without making no preparation, but
          > as it was mentioned earlier it is possible to make beer and other
          > drinks. Unfortunately there isn't no such tree with a sap
          > containing enough sugar to produce syrup, like there is in Canada.
          >
          > With best whishes,
          > Andres Rattur!
          >
          > -----------------------------------------
          > ITV - Sinu lemmiksaated internetis!
          > http://www.itv.ee
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • EinuIf
          ... platanoides (maple). Sap of maple is much sweeter than birch sap. .... Unfortunately there isn t no such tree with a sap containing enough sugar to produce
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Andres Rattur" <Andre66@h...>
            wrote:
            >
            ....
            > Mainly here in Estonia people take sap from Betula pendula and Acer
            platanoides (maple). Sap of maple is much sweeter than birch sap.
            ....
            Unfortunately there isn't no such tree with a sap containing enough
            sugar to produce syrup, like there is in Canada.

            ----------
            Hello Andres, and everyone.

            Thanks for that Estonian sap-tapping lore.

            About the possibility of your making maple syrup, there, check out
            these links:
            http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Acer+platanoides&CAN=COMIND
            http://www.the-tree.org.uk/BritishTrees/MrsGrieve/mgmaples.htm

            It seems that syrup CAN BE made, and HAS BEEN made from A. platanoides
            ("Norway Maple", to English-speakers). "The concentration of sugar
            [in the sap] is considerably lower than in the sugar maples (A.
            saccharum)", but if you can taste the sweetness of your maple sap then
            making syrup from it might be more practical than you think. (Myself,
            I can scarcely taste any flavour in the raw Bigleaf Maple sap I gather
            -- but my sense of taste might not be the sharpest, as my young nephew
            seems well able to taste the the sweetness of the sap, judging by his
            keeness for it.)

            At any rate, "The sap [of A. platanoides] ... can be concentrated into
            a syrup by boiling off the water", and, "Sugar has been made from the
            sap in Norway and Sweden."

            The second link also lists some other maple species that yield sap for
            "sugar" or other products, including a Scottish maple-wine. The lore,
            therein, is from a 1930's British perspective, with according kinds of
            maple covered.

            (By the way, just to clear away any possible confusion, the second
            link also gives the wrong scientific name, A. saccharinum, for the
            Sugar Maple. The Sugar Maple is really A. saccharum, while A.
            saccharinum is really the Silver Maple, both of them native to eastern
            North America.)

            [|:-{>
          • lucia@lrw.net
            Dear EinuIf, Andres, and Karri - thank you for all the birch tapping info, links, and personal experience stories. ... I m not clear about this. you use the
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
              Dear EinuIf, Andres, and Karri - thank you for all the birch tapping
              info, links, and personal experience stories.


              On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, Andres Rattur wrote:

              > I have usually collected birch sap by breaking v-shaped branch and
              > putt this branch inside bottle so bottle is hanging on tree.

              I'm not clear about this. you use the branch for a support for the bottle,
              but you still have to tap the tree somehow, right?

              > Mostly I just drink this sap without making no preparation

              I wonder if there are any health benefits to drinking this sap, or is it
              just a sugar high?

              lucia
            • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 1, 2005
                <i being a hard firm believer in passive growing
                systems (selective organic choices)that cause me much
                stress when i look at what has been done to our
                overwhelming abundance of resources here. Your point
                of the mentality and understanding is well taken. Need
                to provide in some manor is also understood. Knowledge
                and improving choices over time is what brings change.>

                could you explain what you mean by passive growing system and selective organic choices ?

                jean-claude

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andres Rattur
                Lucia wrote: I m not clear about this. you use the branch for a support for the bottle, but you still have to tap the tree somehow, right? No I don t tap the
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
                  Lucia wrote:
                  I'm not clear about this. you use the branch for a support for the bottle, but you still have to tap the tree somehow, right?

                  No I don't tap the tree. I just hang bottles up on the trees branches. It is hard to explain, I tried to draw some picture of it in Paint: http://www.hot.ee/andre66/sap.jpg

                  Explanation:
                  1. I cut or brake two branches, which form V (or Y).
                  2. I press these two branches together, so they can go through bottle's throttle.
                  3. I push branch into bottle and before pressed branches go wider, so bottle won't fall of branch.
                  4. Finally the bottle hangs on trees branch and every morning I collect sap into bigger container.


                  I wonder if there are any health benefits to drinking this sap, or is it just a sugar high?
                  The sap has health benefits, but I don't know excactly what are these benefits. I have heard that it is good for immunity. In Karri Varpio's mail is link about birch sap produce, on that page there are writen some ingredients of this sap.

                  Thanks to Karri Varpio and EinuIf about interesting information.




                  -----------------------------------------
                  ITV - Sinu lemmiksaated internetis!
                  http://www.itv.ee
                • les landeck
                  Good Morning, i ll start at the end and go back to the beginning. selective organic to me is to only use items from the list of whats allowed under the organic
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
                    Good Morning,

                    i'll start at the end and go back to the beginning.
                    selective organic to me is to only use items from the
                    list of whats allowed under the organic standards that
                    do not compromise the beliefs of those who i provide
                    for. so no blood meal, bone meal, feather meal,fish
                    emulsion,,killing sprays of any form including soap
                    sprays. in the past i used two or three hundred pounds
                    of rock power but found my heart was not in it, as for
                    the destruction caused in mining. over the past twenty
                    years this has been a slow learning.

                    i do use chicken and horse manure mixed with rice
                    hauls or fur shavings. but i have been concern the
                    past six or eight years as to the things that may have
                    been done to these resources like with mushroom
                    compost,from 1986 into the early 90's i worked with
                    this layering it on top the soil blocking the grasses
                    and this stopped the need to turn the soil (tilling)
                    it was a great help and a waste produce that i didn't
                    want to see go to the dump. many times i questioned
                    the people at the source as to how they handled and
                    prepared this material, feeling that part of their
                    story was missing i want down to their operation. they
                    explained the steam process that seemed fine but when
                    i questioned any other sprays that they might have
                    been used their body language revealed something was
                    not being told, i asked the same question three times
                    each time the same reaction. i find it the same with
                    many sources of composting supplies. before cars a
                    market grower could take a load of produce to town and
                    return with a load of horse manure. not sure how they
                    cleaned the wagon? when we are concerned with the
                    quality of the produce we provide to the children, the
                    choices become very hard to sort out.

                    as Fukuoka's system of returning the rice and barley
                    straw to the field that is a form of layer composting.
                    using small amounts over a number of years plus the
                    clover in combination with the passive system of
                    flooding the field thus causing the clover and other
                    wild plants to giveway, he had a control system that
                    modeled nature,no soil disruption (passive).

                    i grow very few 120 day crops and no three acre fields
                    of rice, nor do i have the water to flood the fields,
                    they are sloped and full of golfer runs. just won't
                    work.

                    so the question was how can i extract Fukuoka's main
                    points no till, passive and apply it in another form
                    that would meet the needs of a market garden that
                    required three to four rotations per bed per year. if
                    the land did not cost so much we could make it on one
                    or two rotations that would allow crop rotations of
                    green manure plantings. But without the use of flood
                    irrigation how could i cause the green manure crop to
                    giveway into a clean seed bed as a tilled bed would
                    look? so along comes the straw, it takes a lot of
                    light straw to get old growth to giveway. mushroom and
                    later horse manure with fur and pine shavings came
                    later. this was put down on the first application in a
                    six inch layer, that on the next rotation a wheel
                    barrow of chicken manure per 400 square foot bed
                    (4X100) and maybe two inches of mushroom compost over
                    and ready to reseed. we need to note seed if we worked
                    with large transplanting machines all of this might be
                    different.

                    with this we had a system that worked, the cost of
                    importing was off set due to the lack of maintenance
                    no hand weeding or hoeing. good trade. the problem
                    came in finding stable, quality sources of compost
                    supplies in the volume necessary to sustain our needs.

                    i think this covers your two questions Jean-Claude.
                    it's just how can we grow food for the children
                    without offending the requirements of a vegan life
                    style. i do this in respect for others i'm a bit more
                    open in my eating habits but very narrow to many, are
                    not we all?

                    That last lap was quite a trip 589,000,000 miles, can
                    you believe 18.51 miles per second. in only one year
                    to get around the Sun. All of us riding together on
                    this little ball of water, rock, soil, and Life.
                    buckle up and enjoy the view. as we become aware of
                    our traveling companions it's good to note our Solar
                    systems speed of some 155 miles per second in our
                    travels around the Milky Way. seems to be helping me
                    bring things into perspective.

                    Happy New Year All Les







                    --- Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
                    <instinct@...> wrote:

                    > <i being a hard firm believer in passive growing
                    > systems (selective organic choices)that cause me
                    > much
                    > stress when i look at what has been done to our
                    > overwhelming abundance of resources here. Your point
                    > of the mentality and understanding is well taken.
                    > Need
                    > to provide in some manor is also understood.
                    > Knowledge
                    > and improving choices over time is what brings
                    > change.>
                    >
                    > could you explain what you mean by passive growing
                    > system and selective organic choices ?
                    >
                    > jean-claude
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >








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                  • lucia@lrw.net
                    ... ahhh. I understand now. great picture! ... looks like an interesting enterprise, but I couldn t find anything concrete on the website about the health
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
                      > No I don't tap the tree. I just hang bottles up on the trees branches.
                      > It is hard to explain, I tried to draw some picture of it in Paint:
                      > http://www.hot.ee/andre66/sap.jpg

                      ahhh. I understand now. great picture!

                      > The sap has health benefits, but I don't know excactly what are these
                      > benefits. I have heard that it is good for immunity. In Karri Varpio's
                      > mail is link about birch sap produce, on that page there are writen
                      > some ingredients of this sap.

                      looks like an interesting enterprise, but I couldn't find anything
                      concrete on the website about the health benefits. they've written a book
                      but it looks like it's only in Finnish. I'll search for something in
                      English.

                      thanks again!

                      Lucia
                    • EinuIf
                      ... store [birch sap] ... I suspect that they sterilize the sap using ultraviolet light, ozone, or both -- the same way that chlorine-free tap-water treatment
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Karri Varpio"
                        <karri.varpio@r...> wrote:
                        >
                        > http://www.aurinkolehto.fi/eng/index.htm has developed a method to
                        store [birch sap]
                        > without heating, but they keep their method as a secret.

                        I suspect that they sterilize the sap using ultraviolet light, ozone,
                        or both -- the same way that chlorine-free tap-water treatment is done.
                      • lucia@lrw.net
                        ok. I ve done some research on the net and some books such as Steve Brill s Edible and Medicinal Plants and found out that Black Birch/Sweet Birch/Betula
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 2, 2005
                          ok. I've done some research on the net and some books such as Steve
                          Brill's "Edible and Medicinal Plants" and found out that Black Birch/Sweet
                          Birch/Betula Lenta has alot of nutrients. the barch provides beta
                          carotene, calcium, vitamins B1 and B2, calcium, copper, iron, manganese,
                          phosphorus, potassium, sodium, and silicon, xylithol, betulinal and
                          glucoside. the inner bark can be eaten raw, ground into flour, or added to
                          soups. I haven't found out what nutrients the sap contains, but drinking
                          it raw is better than boiling it down into a highly concentrated sugar.

                          several people mention making a tea by infusing the twigs but warn against
                          boiling which would drive off the volatile wintergreen oils.

                          has anyone done this? do you just let it sit in cold water? or pour warm
                          water over it and let it sit? or gently heat to warm?

                          Lucia
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