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RE: [fukuoka_farming] animal raising

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  • Roxann
    When I had only a single goat, she would not leave my immediate presence because she was afraid to go far from her leader . When she kidded, the two of them
    Message 1 of 19 , May 31, 2004
      When I had only a single goat, she would not leave my immediate presence
      because she was afraid to go far from her "leader". When she kidded,
      the two of them would venture a little farther, but never to far away
      and now that I have a horse they would follow the horse wherever he
      goes, since he is now the leader. I think on 40 acres you could expect
      your goats to stay fairly close as long as it's just the two of them.
      Mine are also very wary of predators and won't go far for that reason.
      Soon we'll be moving to 160 acres with plenty of forage available for
      the animals and they will have more room to roam. If I planned to raise
      them for meat, I'd like to do it the way that was suggested earlier,
      with them pretty much being "supported" more than farmed. But my goats
      need to be tame enough to milk and the chickens would be massacred by
      predators overnight, and even the horse will need shelter and protection
      from predators at night.

      roxann


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mary Jo Terry
      We have a Nigerian dwarf billie goat. He is a pet so I have no trouble getting him to come when I m outside. We had two females and the neighbors across the
      Message 2 of 19 , May 31, 2004
        We have a Nigerian dwarf billie goat. He is a pet so I have no trouble getting him to come when I'm outside. We had two females and the neighbors across the road raise meat goats so I couldn't keep them home and finally lost them. I could never keep them in a fence, even Happy (the pet)so I just let him run loose. He doesn't go far.
        Jo_Al
      • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
        a friend of mine in France have a herd of dairy goat ( alpine ) and he raise them free range in the montain ( he have a whole valley to himself ) after he milk
        Message 3 of 19 , May 31, 2004
          a friend of mine in France have a herd of dairy goat ( alpine ) and he raise
          them free range in the montain ( he have a whole valley to himself ) after
          he milk them in the morning he let them go and when evening comes either
          they come back themselves or he call them , they can be all the way up on
          the crest but they come back .
          at home i raised 3 goats free range also , their pen and shelter was allways
          open as long they were small everything was fine but getting older they
          adventured farther and farther away and peoples complained because they were
          on the side of the road ( not that many car goes thru )so i had to keep them
          on a line .
          jean-claude

          > I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them something
          even
          > if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets and
          would
          > feed three or four goats a handful a day.
          >
          > Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give them the
          > alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.
          >
          >
          > On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
          > > I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
          > > but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We have
          > > forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
          > > garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats roam
          >
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          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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        • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
          ... quick answer . the world population is in proportion of available foods , when hunting gathering was the way to get food , earth had a certain number of
          Message 4 of 19 , May 31, 2004
            > Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the entire
            > world population?
            >
            > Or do we need agriculture?

            quick answer .
            the world population is in proportion of available foods , when hunting
            gathering was the way to get food , earth had a certain number of peoples
            that could be supported , agriculture is in fact the cause of
            overpopulation .
            the real question is: do we need to continuouslly produce more foods to the
            point of exhausting the soils and compromising biodiversity , so we can give
            birth to more peoples .? when is it going to stop ?

            grain based diet will be fine except that the health status of humanity
            declined drastically with the introduction of grains (stature and brain
            sized diminished , degenerative diseases and tooth decay appeared , big
            scale violence got established etc... and more there is peoples on earth
            with a physiological sense of lack ( due to malnutrition ), more
            destruction of ecosystems will occur ...

            better get fed properlly ( in accordance with our genetic and evolution )
            and becomes mindfull of human impact on earth as the hunter gatherer "had "
            to.
            having indecent availability of foods makes us mindless about our place in
            the web of life .
            jean-claude
            >
            > E.
            >
            > At 12:26 AM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
            > >FIRST, DO NO FARM
            > >A New Book Argues That Agriculture Is a Disaster
            > >
            > >Enviros are familiar with critiques of large-scale,
            > >chemical-dependent agriculture, but Richard Manning has bigger fish
            > >to fry: In his new book "Against the Grain," Manning argues that
            > >agriculture itself -- the whole shebang -- is a disaster, a
            > >"dangerous and consuming beast of a social system." Hunter-gatherers
            > >not only had more fun, he says, but they were demonstrably healthier.
            > >Agriculture led to a small, rich upper class and a large, unhealthy
            > >laborer class, not to mention endless cycles of famine. Michelle
            > >Nijhuis reviews Manning's provocative new book -- today on the Grist
            > >Magazine website.
            > >
            > >today in Grist: Richard Manning's "Against the Grain" gives farming
            > >a big thumbs-down -- by Michelle Nijhuis
            > ><http://www.gristmagazine.com/books/books052704.asp?source=daily>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
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            > >
            > >
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
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            > >
            > >
            > >
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            > Yahoo! Groups Links
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          • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
            ... impact ... those calculation are based on the assumption that animals rasied for food compete with humans for the same ressources . this is true only in
            Message 5 of 19 , May 31, 2004
              > Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion.
              >
              > This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is far
              > less efficient to get one's protein from animals as opposed to from plants
              > such as soy beans, i.e. that for the amount (nutrients, energy) you put
              > into raising animals versus plants, you get a lot more out of the plants.
              >
              > How do we deal with this ethically, if we are trying to minimise our
              impact
              > on the land?

              those calculation are based on the assumption that animals rasied for food
              compete with humans for the same ressources . this is true only in the
              context of factory farming where grains are fed to animals ( that is stupid
              to spend so much energy to grow grain then feed them to animals )
              the truth is that herbivorous animals are not grain eater to start with ,
              they eat foliage and grasses sometimes with somes seeds with it but never
              naked grains . herbivorous animals have no instinctive regulation of their
              intake with naked grains they will eat to death ,proof that it is not their
              original food .

              even fowls are not grains eaters either , in the wild the ancestor of
              chickens are bugs and small animals eaters fisrt then greens and seed the
              last : ducks are also greens and bugs small animals eater , turkey and
              others the same .
              only pigeons are seeds eaters .
              none of the animals we are used to eat , makes a healthy meat when raised on
              grains ( it have to do especially with the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty
              acids )

              animals raised the natural way eat what humans don't eat while benefiting
              whole ecosytems .
              to give you an image i comes from the mountains of the pyrennees where not
              that much can be grown as plants due to the elevation, but the whole
              mountains is free range paradise for many domestic animals ( horses ,sheeps
              ,goats cows) they cohabite with other wild big mammals like wild boar ,
              mouflon ( wild sheep ) , and izards.( wild antelope )and they have done so
              since prehistoric time . the whole ecosytem of the alpine meadows is rich
              and diverse .

              also tending plants demand way more human energy imput for what you get as
              calory than free range animals raising .
              jean-claude
            • Socrate Hatoum
              YES AGRICULTURE IS A DISASTER. YES WE CAN FEED THE ENTIRE WORLD. ANYWAY WE WAN T BE SO MANY ... Socrate Hatoum 33 (0)1 40 70 19 91
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 1, 2004
                YES AGRICULTURE IS A DISASTER. YES WE CAN FEED THE ENTIRE WORLD.
                ANYWAY WE WAN'T BE SO MANY
                On mardi, juin 1, 2004, at 02:16 Europe/Zurich, Elinor Jean wrote:

                > Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the
                > entire
                > world population?
                >
                > Or do we need agriculture?
                >
                > E.
                >
                > At 12:26 AM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
                >> FIRST, DO NO FARM
                >> A New Book Argues That Agriculture Is a Disaster
                >>
                >> Enviros are familiar with critiques of large-scale,
                >> chemical-dependent agriculture, but Richard Manning has bigger fish
                >> to fry: In his new book "Against the Grain," Manning argues that
                >> agriculture itself -- the whole shebang -- is a disaster, a
                >> "dangerous and consuming beast of a social system." Hunter-gatherers
                >> not only had more fun, he says, but they were demonstrably healthier.
                >> Agriculture led to a small, rich upper class and a large, unhealthy
                >> laborer class, not to mention endless cycles of famine. Michelle
                >> Nijhuis reviews Manning's provocative new book -- today on the Grist
                >> Magazine website.
                >>
                >> today in Grist: Richard Manning's "Against the Grain" gives farming
                >> a big thumbs-down -- by Michelle Nijhuis
                >> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/books/books052704.asp?source=daily>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
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                > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                Socrate Hatoum
                33 (0)1 40 70 19 91
              • Socrate Hatoum
                A MIXTURE OF FAVA BEAN AND CHICKPEAS IS RICHER IN PROTEIN THAN ANY TOXIN FULL STEAK. THE EGYPTIANS :LIVE EATING IT THEY CALL IT FALAFEL AND IT DELICIOUS ...
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 1, 2004
                  A MIXTURE OF FAVA BEAN AND CHICKPEAS IS RICHER IN PROTEIN THAN ANY
                  TOXIN FULL STEAK. THE EGYPTIANS :LIVE EATING IT THEY CALL IT FALAFEL
                  AND IT DELICIOUS
                  On mardi, juin 1, 2004, at 02:13 Europe/Zurich, Elinor Jean wrote:

                  > Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion.
                  >
                  > This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is
                  > far
                  > less efficient to get one's protein from animals as opposed to from
                  > plants
                  > such as soy beans, i.e. that for the amount (nutrients, energy) you put
                  > into raising animals versus plants, you get a lot more out of the
                  > plants.
                  >
                  > How do we deal with this ethically, if we are trying to minimise our
                  > impact
                  > on the land?
                  >
                  > cheers, Elin.
                  >
                  > At 11:50 PM 5/30/04 -0400, you wrote:
                  >> One of our school families raised & loved them, yet had many an
                  >> occasion to
                  >> quote the (Middle Eastern?) saying, "If you have no troubles, get a
                  >> goat." This
                  >> may have had to do with many temptations on the neighbor's property.
                  >> N
                  >>
                  >> Ralph wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them
                  >> something even
                  >>> if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets
                  >>> and
                  >> would
                  >>> feed three or four goats a handful a day.
                  >>>
                  >>> Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give
                  >>> them the
                  >>> alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
                  >>>> I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
                  >>>> but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We
                  >>>> have
                  >>>> forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
                  >>>> garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats
                  >>>> roam
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Socrate Hatoum
                  33 (0)1 40 70 19 91
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