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Re: [fukuoka_farming] animal raising

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  • Adam Carter
    I ve tried raising Muscovy ducks in as natural way as I could. We have multiple dams and the idea was not to feed them and have them simply graze for their
    Message 1 of 19 , May 29, 2004
      I've tried raising Muscovy ducks in as natural way as I could. We have
      multiple dams and the idea was not to feed them and have them simply
      graze for their needs. The problem that I encountered was that we were
      raising free ranging chickens at the same time and we were feeding the
      chickens grain and kitchen scraps. It all worked fine for a few weeks
      until the ducks wised up to the easy food available around the house
      that we were giving the chickens. We ended up eating the ducks and now
      only have chickens. Ideally I'd like to experiment again with this,
      either without chickens or releasing the duck son the farthest dam
      hoping they would stay clear of the house.

      I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
      but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We have
      forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
      garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats roam
      the rest of the land. I'm wondering if we bond well with the animals
      initially whether they'd be inclined to stay with us rather than
      heading off into the forest that adjoins our land. We have a fence with
      our only neighbours but the rest of the land is either poorly fenced or
      unfenced.

      Jean-claud, could you please let me know your thoughts about goats in
      this regard. I agree totally about private ownership being the problem
      but there is no way around this for me in the immediate future.




      On 28/05/2004, at 9:00 PM, Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry wrote:
      >
      > i am very interested myself to extend masanobu' s aproach to animal
      > raising
      > the natural way ,it will be a more difficult move as it will be
      > questionning the basis of neolithic cultures : private ownership of
      > land
      >
      > animals move a lot to be able to graze or feed naturally without
      > impacting
      > the land , plants have the advantage of being grounded.
      > anyone interested by this challenge ?
    • Ralph
      I ve raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them something even if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets and would feed
      Message 2 of 19 , May 30, 2004
        I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them something even
        if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets and would
        feed three or four goats a handful a day.

        Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give them the
        alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.


        On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
        > I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
        > but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We have
        > forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
        > garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats roam
      • Robin, Maya, or Napi
        One of our school families raised & loved them, yet had many an occasion to quote the (Middle Eastern?) saying, If you have no troubles, get a goat. This
        Message 3 of 19 , May 30, 2004
          One of our school families raised & loved them, yet had many an occasion to
          quote the (Middle Eastern?) saying, "If you have no troubles, get a goat." This
          may have had to do with many temptations on the neighbor's property.
          N

          Ralph wrote:

          > I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them something even
          > if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets and would
          > feed three or four goats a handful a day.
          >
          > Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give them the
          > alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.
          >
          >
          > On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
          > > I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
          > > but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We have
          > > forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
          > > garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats roam


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elinor Jean
          Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion. This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is far less efficient
          Message 4 of 19 , May 31, 2004
            Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion.

            This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is far
            less efficient to get one's protein from animals as opposed to from plants
            such as soy beans, i.e. that for the amount (nutrients, energy) you put
            into raising animals versus plants, you get a lot more out of the plants.

            How do we deal with this ethically, if we are trying to minimise our impact
            on the land?

            cheers, Elin.

            At 11:50 PM 5/30/04 -0400, you wrote:
            >One of our school families raised & loved them, yet had many an occasion to
            >quote the (Middle Eastern?) saying, "If you have no troubles, get a
            >goat." This
            >may have had to do with many temptations on the neighbor's property.
            >N
            >
            >Ralph wrote:
            >
            > > I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them
            > something even
            > > if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets and
            > would
            > > feed three or four goats a handful a day.
            > >
            > > Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give them the
            > > alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.
            > >
            > >
            > > On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
            > > > I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
            > > > but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We have
            > > > forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
            > > > garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats roam
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Elinor Jean
            Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the entire world population? Or do we need agriculture? E.
            Message 5 of 19 , May 31, 2004
              Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the entire
              world population?

              Or do we need agriculture?

              E.

              At 12:26 AM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
              >FIRST, DO NO FARM
              >A New Book Argues That Agriculture Is a Disaster
              >
              >Enviros are familiar with critiques of large-scale,
              >chemical-dependent agriculture, but Richard Manning has bigger fish
              >to fry: In his new book "Against the Grain," Manning argues that
              >agriculture itself -- the whole shebang -- is a disaster, a
              >"dangerous and consuming beast of a social system." Hunter-gatherers
              >not only had more fun, he says, but they were demonstrably healthier.
              >Agriculture led to a small, rich upper class and a large, unhealthy
              >laborer class, not to mention endless cycles of famine. Michelle
              >Nijhuis reviews Manning's provocative new book -- today on the Grist
              >Magazine website.
              >
              >today in Grist: Richard Manning's "Against the Grain" gives farming
              >a big thumbs-down -- by Michelle Nijhuis
              ><http://www.gristmagazine.com/books/books052704.asp?source=daily>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Adam Carter
              Quick answer: Six billion (and counting) people could not live as hunter gatherers. However, I do not believe that six billion people could ever sustainably
              Message 6 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                Quick answer: Six billion (and counting) people could not live as
                hunter gatherers.

                However, I do not believe that six billion people could ever
                sustainably live on this planet regardless of the means they use to
                feed themselves. To me this is a simple fact. The collapse of
                civilisation is inevitable, and drawing nearer.

                Despite the overwhelming evidence it took me a long time to accept this
                conclusion.

                On 01/06/2004, at 10:16 AM, Elinor Jean wrote:

                > Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the
                > entire
                > world population?
                >
                > Or do we need agriculture?
                >
                > E.
              • Adam Carter
                Elin, this issue is also tied in with the one on agriculture. You raise valid points about modern factory farming. However to raise plants for purely
                Message 7 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                  Elin, this issue is also tied in with the one on agriculture.

                  You raise valid points about modern factory farming. However to raise
                  plants for purely anthropocentric needs requires large scale land
                  clearing and therefore loss of habitat for wild animals. In the modern
                  agricultural world there is no right or wrong answer as to how one
                  chooses to meet their nutritional needs.

                  If you are looking for ethical answers, I suggest you look to how
                  hunter gatherers lived within their ecosystems. Fukuoka style animal
                  raising methods are a small step in that direction. It is closer to
                  hunting wild animals and that (in a closed ecosystem) is the only long
                  term sustainable way for humans to exist.

                  Cheers, Adam.

                  On 01/06/2004, at 10:13 AM, Elinor Jean wrote:

                  > Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion.
                  >
                  > This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is
                  > far
                  > less efficient to get one's protein from animals as opposed to from
                  > plants
                  > such as soy beans, i.e. that for the amount (nutrients, energy) you put
                  > into raising animals versus plants, you get a lot more out of the
                  > plants.
                  >
                  > How do we deal with this ethically, if we are trying to minimise our
                  > impact
                  > on the land?
                  >
                  > cheers, Elin.
                • Royal A. Purdy
                  ... becomes ... impacting ... Jean-claude and Folks, I ve spent many years reading and writing about Masanobu Fukuokas methods from the perspective that
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                    --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude
                    Catry" <instinct@s...> wrote:
                    > masnobu fukuoka shows us the way to get from this agriculture to
                    becomes
                    >...
                    > animals move a lot to be able to graze or feed naturally without
                    impacting
                    > the land , plants have the advantage of being grounded.
                    > anyone interested by this challenge ?
                    >
                    > jean-claude
                    >
                    >
                    > > FIRST, DO NO FARM
                    > > A New Book Argues That Agriculture Is a Disaster
                    > >

                    Jean-claude and Folks,

                    I've spent many years reading and writing about Masanobu
                    Fukuokas' methods from the perspective that "Natural
                    Farming" could and should be applied to general large scale
                    commercial type animal (dairy and meat) livestock farming-cropping
                    systems. I think readers here would be interested to learn that other
                    animal husbandry writers in the past have also advocated the basic
                    type tenets as Fukuokas four principals; namely F. Newman Turner
                    during the forties and fifties.

                    Turner was a follower of Sir Albert Howard, the well-known organic
                    author-authority. Basically Turner saw no need to use synthetic
                    Fertilizers (he advocated ambient pasture compost amendments); he saw
                    no profit from monocultures, sprays or herbicides (complex pasture
                    systems utilize "weeds", so there is very little need to act
                    on
                    controlling them); No (Deep) tillage or anything more than very
                    shallow tillage is ever needed. There are other advocates of these
                    methods too all based on a common pasture and pasture cropping
                    advocacy that slipped from view with the green revolution; you just
                    have to look for the information from a different interpretation; one
                    that includes (not excludes) animals.

                    As I have written on my website (www.ahtuttle.com); I believe and
                    continue to promote that I am very sure that Fukuokas' thesis of
                    (actual commercial) farming methods without addressing an advocacy of
                    animal hoof actions and pastures influence is as blatantly incorrect
                    and miss-informed from a economical, social, and environmental
                    perspective as is that of any conventional agri-chemical and bio-
                    technical type system agriculture with their presumed miss-uses'.

                    I advocate that pasture and pasture cropping methods are sustainable
                    and valid from anywhere between 10 and ten thousand animal
                    equivalents or more.

                    "The Elysian Fields Pasture Project" is updated seasonally as
                    time
                    allows.

                    Be safe. Sincerely,

                    Royal A. Purdy, author `The Elysian Fields Pasture Project"
                    A. H. Tuttle and Company
                    Farmington, NY. , U.S.A.
                    Upstate New York, Finger Lakes Region
                  • Roxann
                    I do not think there is a quick fix nor an easy answer to the question. First of all, our world s population is so dense because of many reasons, but mass
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                      I do not think there is a quick fix nor an easy answer to the question.
                      First of all, our world's population is so dense because of many
                      reasons, but mass agricultural practices probably contribute to it.
                      There was a time when each family had to provide their own food through
                      small farms, and they traded and sold off the excess. Personally, I
                      like that concept and will soon be doing it myself. Even if each
                      community had a garden, or several gardens, depending upon how large the
                      community, it would go a long ways in providing food. The necessities
                      for life do not include instant, prepackaged and highly processed foods
                      and I think a good diet can be had from eating the seasonal produce that
                      grows in a local garden with a couple chickens for eggs and a goat for
                      milk could supply a community with a wealth of healthy and very
                      cost-reduced food. Of course, that would require a radical change of
                      paradigm for almost everyone in the US and maybe most other countries.
                      But it seems a better answer than mega-agriculture or hunter-gathering.

                      Roxann


                      Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the
                      entire
                      world population?

                      Or do we need agriculture?

                      E.






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Roxann
                      When I had only a single goat, she would not leave my immediate presence because she was afraid to go far from her leader . When she kidded, the two of them
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                        When I had only a single goat, she would not leave my immediate presence
                        because she was afraid to go far from her "leader". When she kidded,
                        the two of them would venture a little farther, but never to far away
                        and now that I have a horse they would follow the horse wherever he
                        goes, since he is now the leader. I think on 40 acres you could expect
                        your goats to stay fairly close as long as it's just the two of them.
                        Mine are also very wary of predators and won't go far for that reason.
                        Soon we'll be moving to 160 acres with plenty of forage available for
                        the animals and they will have more room to roam. If I planned to raise
                        them for meat, I'd like to do it the way that was suggested earlier,
                        with them pretty much being "supported" more than farmed. But my goats
                        need to be tame enough to milk and the chickens would be massacred by
                        predators overnight, and even the horse will need shelter and protection
                        from predators at night.

                        roxann


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mary Jo Terry
                        We have a Nigerian dwarf billie goat. He is a pet so I have no trouble getting him to come when I m outside. We had two females and the neighbors across the
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                          We have a Nigerian dwarf billie goat. He is a pet so I have no trouble getting him to come when I'm outside. We had two females and the neighbors across the road raise meat goats so I couldn't keep them home and finally lost them. I could never keep them in a fence, even Happy (the pet)so I just let him run loose. He doesn't go far.
                          Jo_Al
                        • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
                          a friend of mine in France have a herd of dairy goat ( alpine ) and he raise them free range in the montain ( he have a whole valley to himself ) after he milk
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                            a friend of mine in France have a herd of dairy goat ( alpine ) and he raise
                            them free range in the montain ( he have a whole valley to himself ) after
                            he milk them in the morning he let them go and when evening comes either
                            they come back themselves or he call them , they can be all the way up on
                            the crest but they come back .
                            at home i raised 3 goats free range also , their pen and shelter was allways
                            open as long they were small everything was fine but getting older they
                            adventured farther and farther away and peoples complained because they were
                            on the side of the road ( not that many car goes thru )so i had to keep them
                            on a line .
                            jean-claude

                            > I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them something
                            even
                            > if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets and
                            would
                            > feed three or four goats a handful a day.
                            >
                            > Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give them the
                            > alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.
                            >
                            >
                            > On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
                            > > I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
                            > > but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We have
                            > > forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
                            > > garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats roam
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
                            ... quick answer . the world population is in proportion of available foods , when hunting gathering was the way to get food , earth had a certain number of
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                              > Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the entire
                              > world population?
                              >
                              > Or do we need agriculture?

                              quick answer .
                              the world population is in proportion of available foods , when hunting
                              gathering was the way to get food , earth had a certain number of peoples
                              that could be supported , agriculture is in fact the cause of
                              overpopulation .
                              the real question is: do we need to continuouslly produce more foods to the
                              point of exhausting the soils and compromising biodiversity , so we can give
                              birth to more peoples .? when is it going to stop ?

                              grain based diet will be fine except that the health status of humanity
                              declined drastically with the introduction of grains (stature and brain
                              sized diminished , degenerative diseases and tooth decay appeared , big
                              scale violence got established etc... and more there is peoples on earth
                              with a physiological sense of lack ( due to malnutrition ), more
                              destruction of ecosystems will occur ...

                              better get fed properlly ( in accordance with our genetic and evolution )
                              and becomes mindfull of human impact on earth as the hunter gatherer "had "
                              to.
                              having indecent availability of foods makes us mindless about our place in
                              the web of life .
                              jean-claude
                              >
                              > E.
                              >
                              > At 12:26 AM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
                              > >FIRST, DO NO FARM
                              > >A New Book Argues That Agriculture Is a Disaster
                              > >
                              > >Enviros are familiar with critiques of large-scale,
                              > >chemical-dependent agriculture, but Richard Manning has bigger fish
                              > >to fry: In his new book "Against the Grain," Manning argues that
                              > >agriculture itself -- the whole shebang -- is a disaster, a
                              > >"dangerous and consuming beast of a social system." Hunter-gatherers
                              > >not only had more fun, he says, but they were demonstrably healthier.
                              > >Agriculture led to a small, rich upper class and a large, unhealthy
                              > >laborer class, not to mention endless cycles of famine. Michelle
                              > >Nijhuis reviews Manning's provocative new book -- today on the Grist
                              > >Magazine website.
                              > >
                              > >today in Grist: Richard Manning's "Against the Grain" gives farming
                              > >a big thumbs-down -- by Michelle Nijhuis
                              > ><http://www.gristmagazine.com/books/books052704.asp?source=daily>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
                              ... impact ... those calculation are based on the assumption that animals rasied for food compete with humans for the same ressources . this is true only in
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 31, 2004
                                > Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion.
                                >
                                > This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is far
                                > less efficient to get one's protein from animals as opposed to from plants
                                > such as soy beans, i.e. that for the amount (nutrients, energy) you put
                                > into raising animals versus plants, you get a lot more out of the plants.
                                >
                                > How do we deal with this ethically, if we are trying to minimise our
                                impact
                                > on the land?

                                those calculation are based on the assumption that animals rasied for food
                                compete with humans for the same ressources . this is true only in the
                                context of factory farming where grains are fed to animals ( that is stupid
                                to spend so much energy to grow grain then feed them to animals )
                                the truth is that herbivorous animals are not grain eater to start with ,
                                they eat foliage and grasses sometimes with somes seeds with it but never
                                naked grains . herbivorous animals have no instinctive regulation of their
                                intake with naked grains they will eat to death ,proof that it is not their
                                original food .

                                even fowls are not grains eaters either , in the wild the ancestor of
                                chickens are bugs and small animals eaters fisrt then greens and seed the
                                last : ducks are also greens and bugs small animals eater , turkey and
                                others the same .
                                only pigeons are seeds eaters .
                                none of the animals we are used to eat , makes a healthy meat when raised on
                                grains ( it have to do especially with the ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fatty
                                acids )

                                animals raised the natural way eat what humans don't eat while benefiting
                                whole ecosytems .
                                to give you an image i comes from the mountains of the pyrennees where not
                                that much can be grown as plants due to the elevation, but the whole
                                mountains is free range paradise for many domestic animals ( horses ,sheeps
                                ,goats cows) they cohabite with other wild big mammals like wild boar ,
                                mouflon ( wild sheep ) , and izards.( wild antelope )and they have done so
                                since prehistoric time . the whole ecosytem of the alpine meadows is rich
                                and diverse .

                                also tending plants demand way more human energy imput for what you get as
                                calory than free range animals raising .
                                jean-claude
                              • Socrate Hatoum
                                YES AGRICULTURE IS A DISASTER. YES WE CAN FEED THE ENTIRE WORLD. ANYWAY WE WAN T BE SO MANY ... Socrate Hatoum 33 (0)1 40 70 19 91
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 1 2:55 AM
                                  YES AGRICULTURE IS A DISASTER. YES WE CAN FEED THE ENTIRE WORLD.
                                  ANYWAY WE WAN'T BE SO MANY
                                  On mardi, juin 1, 2004, at 02:16 Europe/Zurich, Elinor Jean wrote:

                                  > Quick question: If we go back to hunter gathering, can we feed the
                                  > entire
                                  > world population?
                                  >
                                  > Or do we need agriculture?
                                  >
                                  > E.
                                  >
                                  > At 12:26 AM 5/28/04 -0400, you wrote:
                                  >> FIRST, DO NO FARM
                                  >> A New Book Argues That Agriculture Is a Disaster
                                  >>
                                  >> Enviros are familiar with critiques of large-scale,
                                  >> chemical-dependent agriculture, but Richard Manning has bigger fish
                                  >> to fry: In his new book "Against the Grain," Manning argues that
                                  >> agriculture itself -- the whole shebang -- is a disaster, a
                                  >> "dangerous and consuming beast of a social system." Hunter-gatherers
                                  >> not only had more fun, he says, but they were demonstrably healthier.
                                  >> Agriculture led to a small, rich upper class and a large, unhealthy
                                  >> laborer class, not to mention endless cycles of famine. Michelle
                                  >> Nijhuis reviews Manning's provocative new book -- today on the Grist
                                  >> Magazine website.
                                  >>
                                  >> today in Grist: Richard Manning's "Against the Grain" gives farming
                                  >> a big thumbs-down -- by Michelle Nijhuis
                                  >> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/books/books052704.asp?source=daily>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Socrate Hatoum
                                  33 (0)1 40 70 19 91
                                • Socrate Hatoum
                                  A MIXTURE OF FAVA BEAN AND CHICKPEAS IS RICHER IN PROTEIN THAN ANY TOXIN FULL STEAK. THE EGYPTIANS :LIVE EATING IT THEY CALL IT FALAFEL AND IT DELICIOUS ...
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 1 3:02 AM
                                    A MIXTURE OF FAVA BEAN AND CHICKPEAS IS RICHER IN PROTEIN THAN ANY
                                    TOXIN FULL STEAK. THE EGYPTIANS :LIVE EATING IT THEY CALL IT FALAFEL
                                    AND IT DELICIOUS
                                    On mardi, juin 1, 2004, at 02:13 Europe/Zurich, Elinor Jean wrote:

                                    > Very interested to read the ideas about animal raising fukuoka fashion.
                                    >
                                    > This leads into something that interests me. I have heard that it is
                                    > far
                                    > less efficient to get one's protein from animals as opposed to from
                                    > plants
                                    > such as soy beans, i.e. that for the amount (nutrients, energy) you put
                                    > into raising animals versus plants, you get a lot more out of the
                                    > plants.
                                    >
                                    > How do we deal with this ethically, if we are trying to minimise our
                                    > impact
                                    > on the land?
                                    >
                                    > cheers, Elin.
                                    >
                                    > At 11:50 PM 5/30/04 -0400, you wrote:
                                    >> One of our school families raised & loved them, yet had many an
                                    >> occasion to
                                    >> quote the (Middle Eastern?) saying, "If you have no troubles, get a
                                    >> goat." This
                                    >> may have had to do with many temptations on the neighbor's property.
                                    >> N
                                    >>
                                    >> Ralph wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>> I've raised goats. o keep them close to you, always feed them
                                    >> something even
                                    >>> if they forage for most of their diet. I kept a few alfafa pellets
                                    >>> and
                                    >> would
                                    >>> feed three or four goats a handful a day.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Also, if youring a bell or beat on a tin pan just before you give
                                    >>> them the
                                    >>> alfalfa, they will always come to you when you ring if they escape.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> On Saturday 29 May 2004 10:18 pm, Adam Carter wrote:
                                    >>>> I am contemplating an experiment along these lines with a few goats,
                                    >>>> but have reservations about whether they will stay on my land. We
                                    >>>> have
                                    >>>> forty acres (half cleared half pasture) and our fukuokan vegetable
                                    >>>> garden is fenced from wildlife and I'd be happy to have the goats
                                    >>>> roam
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                    >
                                    Socrate Hatoum
                                    33 (0)1 40 70 19 91
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