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Responses to Adam Carter & 'DaddyOat' - with some more info.

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  • animaphile
    Thanks DaddyOat - John Warner for the last post as it contains important words from some very well known respectable names Vandina Shiva, Wendell Berry, etc. i
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 15, 2004
      Thanks DaddyOat - John Warner for the last post as it contains
      important words from some very well known respectable names Vandina
      Shiva, Wendell Berry, etc. i think many of us already now the
      message particularly that Vandina Shiva made that natures' diversity
      produces more food in its diverse total products than monoculture
      crops do in their few total products (we know about this in terms of
      nutrition even more from our groups discussions here about nutrition
      as derived from a diversity of food products)
      And we also have the evidence to back it up, from many sources not
      the least of which is Fukuoka's writings and records of his farm and
      Shizen Nouhou (- "Natural Food Growing" - i'm thinking now that i
      prefer this as a translation rather than "Natural Farming", that
      started when "One Straw Revolution" lost some depth of meaning in
      translation from "Shizen Nouhou: wara ippon no kakumei", -
      in part from what i've learnt as i've been carefully but
      inexperiencedly translating, one kanji at a time, the deepest
      philosophical parts of Fukouka's Japanese language & photographic
      book that's title translates as "Revolution of One Straw -
      Recapitulation : Travelling with seedballs" and from reading "The
      Ultimatum of God Nature - One Straw Revolution - A Recapitulation"-
      thanks again Michiyo.
      Many experinces with Japanese friends and literature tell it is very
      challenging to translate fully an idiom such as "Mu" or "Shizen" or
      understandings that underpin a whole people with their unique
      language nature culture as the Japanese.)

      Adam, i appreciate the total or overall understanding behind the
      words in your reply to my "Natural Farmers in Oz", an important
      insight to me, but i understand that the words Fukuoka uses in
      Japanese are not fully translated as Natural Farming so this phrase
      is just a convention in english to me rather than a definition of
      Fukuoka's. Natural Farming is to me just a title to hang our hats on
      for assumed understand in conversation rather than giving a
      definitive translation. I'm still processing my amateur but
      passionate translating efforts to come up with a better translation,
      you can see some of my 'trying-hard' contributions on this group in
      my earlier & earliest posts. A different persons valued post
      mentions importantly the awareness that Fukuoka's words are like the
      finger pointing at the moon not the moon itself, this is very lovely
      to me when it works through my feelings as i can feel what Fukouka
      is pointing at, which in different words might be called the
      superordiante concept that transcends Farming and Gathering (or
      Hunter-Gathering practices) as these words are used in definitive
      terms, to mean something like feeding and growing nature without any
      contrivances to grow nature but at once having full awareness of the
      processes occurring in nature that agriculture has sought to
      harness, dominate, control and/or circumvent, etc.

      I dont yet have answers for your Tassie situation, my mind is
      processing how much cooler the climate must be and the fewer native
      food plant species that grow in Tassie - trying to imagine how you
      could live self-sufficiently on a small plot in such a cool/cold
      temperate place, please write more about your natural context,
      abiotic and biotic, i also would like to understand how to live
      there at least in a fully worked theories that could be used by
      whitefulla's as a point of departure.

      Apart from food growing ways, Fukuoka and Indij Ozzies, my best
      imformation (and much of my own personal practices and writing and
      experience) comes from Oz invented Bush Regeneration (invented as an
      established way or institution by the Sydney Bradley Sisters in the


      see particularly:

      as one of many valued papers in the above.

      Also importantly see:
      Ecological Management & Restoration Journal

      Also see:

      In particular see:
      How to get more plants for your money with bush regeneration

      And more generally see:
      (Stephen Inniss you may also find these interesting)

      Crisis and transformation

      Uncertainty as Information


      Jason Stewart
    • Adam Carter
      Hi Jason, I agree with you with about Fukuoka s finger and the problems with the term Natural Farming . For me the word farming will always have negative
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 16, 2004
        Hi Jason,

        I agree with you with about Fukuoka's finger and the problems with the
        term 'Natural Farming'. For me the word 'farming' will always have
        negative connotations even in the context of Fukuoka's ideas (albeit to
        a much lesser degree than industrial agriculture). A world made up of
        billions of small plots of land is as undesirable as the present state
        of the world. However I do view Fukuoka's ideas as a bridge between
        where we are now and a return to the only proven long term sustainable
        form of human existence - living as hunter gatherers. Of course, the
        bridge is only theoretical because it won't be crossed in practice :-(

        As far as my own situation goes. I've only recently escaped from
        Melbourne and have been living in the far south of Tassie for about
        nine months. So far I've planted a lot of apple and hazel nut trees.
        The hazel nuts will be used as a grain substitute (we currently grind
        purchased nuts up and make pancakes etc with them). In autumn I'll be
        sowing an area with white clover and a number of winter vegetables that
        are prone to self seeding and will follow that up in spring with other
        self seeding varieties. The aim to be to create a self sustaining
        source of vegetables. However we are already self sufficient in greens
        as we are eating a number of weeds that grow on our land - dock,
        sorrel, thistles, false dandelion and plantain. We've chickens and
        ducks for meat and eggs however I aim to supply all of our meat needs
        through hunting game (as difficult as that is both practically and
        psychologically). Basically the idea is to get as close as possible to
        a hunting and gathering existence, even though much of the gathering
        will be of introduced species. I'm learning as much as is possible
        about known bush foods, the main problem being the loss of knowledge
        due to the genocide committed by the invading Europeans (not to mention
        the ongoing ecocide by Forestry Tasmania). Insects are another food
        source I'll be looking into along with earth worms which I haven't yet
        tried but are apparently very nutritious.

        So, to sum it up, I'm going to eat what is edible and learn to enjoy
        it. It's really not as cold as you may expect down here and we have a
        great advantage of a good rainfall which is important because I won't
        be watering anything. The acidic clay soil is a drawback but the edible
        weeds I mentioned earlier demonstrate that edible plants will grow and
        I'm not going to be fussy.


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