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FW: [SANET-MG] Will you sell your country out for 70 cents?

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  • jamie
    Hello everyone, perhaps the following forwarded post will make more sense to US citizens than it did to me, certainly regarding the people involved anyway.
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 27, 2003
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      Hello everyone, perhaps the following forwarded post will make more sense to
      US citizens than it did to me, certainly regarding the people involved
      anyway. However, what comes through clearly is the intensely complex
      interrelations between money and politics in the US and the media battle for
      the ear of the consumer/citizen.

      Whilst the right to state your case is enshrined in most western
      democracies, it seems that if you have the money you also have the right to
      continually undermine legitimate investigation and pander
      pseudo-investigation by retainered scientists.

      The suggestion of sociopathy at the end of the post is no mere rhetoric,
      these are the characteristics of a sociopath (AKA psychopath). If such
      people do have the ear of top politicians, and it is very difficult not to
      draw that conclusion, perhaps the remorseless foreign policy of the US can
      be explained.

      Agriculturally, it is clear that conventional practices are underwritten by
      these same people/corporations both in the US and in so-called markets
      abroad. Anything we might wish to do to change the status quo would seem to
      be a wasted effort when pitted against these enormous resources. Fukuoka
      turned his back some time ago on the US and Europe and has spent his time in
      developing countries (though developing toward what?), perhaps he already
      realised the futility of trying to make a change - he certainly lost
      interest in writing!

      There is a very real fear that divorced of clear information, or at least so
      confused by contradictory information, US citizens/consumers are no longer
      able to make informed choices and their innate balance (what some might call
      the instinctual 'goodness' of people) has been lost. Therefore when they
      support Bush, when they elect him next year for a second term, when they
      underwrite his disastrous 'war on terrorism' through the ballot box or
      apathy, they become what they have always fought against - the US becomes
      the 'evil empire'!

      Jamie
      Souscayrous

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
      [mailto:SANET-MG@...]On Behalf Of Lion Kuntz
      Sent: lundi 27 octobre 2003 06:21
      To: SANET-MG@...
      Subject: [SANET-MG] Will you sell your country out for 70 cents?

      You have seen many more samples of Dale Wilson's posts
      over the past two years than I have. There are Bivings
      Group paid agents pretending to be "just folks" whose
      terms of employment require them to speak as you have
      said Dale speaks. They are paid to join SANET-MG and
      paid to take Monsanto's side, or else they don't get
      paid.

      The "Washington Times", owned 100% by felon Sun Myung
      Moon has tens of thousands of unpaid servants who
      speak the same message. The Cato Institute, founded by
      convicted negligent killer Charles Koch, is one of two
      hundred "think Tank$" and "In$titute$" in a
      cross-linked shared directors network which publishes
      identical to Dale Wilson's words and thoughtforms on
      the pages of Moon's BrainWash Times, Forbes, Wall
      Street Journal, Murdoch's Fox network, etc. For a time
      Murdoch was on the board of Cato's directors with
      founder's-brother David H. Koch, while Junk-Science
      Malloy was on Cato's payroll, thus Malloy's subsequent
      employment with Fox. Up until his death, Julian Simon
      was a "Cato Fellow" -- Simon who became the corrupt
      Bjorg Lomborg's role model.

      So is "Dale Wilson" a real person, or a Biving's Group
      pseudoname -- is there a real "Polly" making fritters
      in the kitchen? Is he a dupe of a corrupt subversive
      "party line"? If you sign up on the Republican
      activist's website, operated by Bivings Group on
      Bivings' web server, you can win hats, jackets,
      sweatshirts by doing assignments: reading the weekly
      "talking points" and posting a specified number of
      posts on usenet and other discussion groups. Since
      Monsanto is a Bivings client, of course the talking
      points will include pep-talking GMOs and bashing
      organics, and of course one target has to be SANET-MG.
      These "republican activists" will not even know that
      they are unpaid workers for Monsanto, and their
      messages will have lots of misspelling for
      authenticity that this is NOT AN ORGANIZATION SPEAKING
      but a real person. A real fool person, that is.

      Remember when we discussed the "The Greening Earth
      Society" a couple years ago, whose website was once
      listed as located at the home of the Idso brother
      whose wife made the video tape on "increased CO2 is
      good for us". The Idso brothers often collaborate with
      Balliunis and Soon in disinformation campaigns, with
      the Idsos running the CO2science website, and
      Balliunas running TechCentral.com. So is Dale just
      duped, like so many others stumbling around like a
      pinball bouncing off disinformation propaganda mills?
      Or is he a paid agent of somebody? Or has he
      coincidently adopted the exact same arrogant
      harrassment of people who insist on (1) open
      disclosures, (2) freewill choice, and (3) informed
      consent.

      Maybe Dale is a Moonie, who believes that the
      convicted felon Sun Myung Moon is the christ, and he
      does what Moon tells him out of religious fervor? The
      washed up scientist Fred S. Singer took up Moon's
      offer of free office space for a year, and a chance
      for a comeback in science by being a sock-puppet with
      Moon's beefy arm up his throat flapping the mouth.
      Maybe Dale needed a savior, and picked one who would
      tell him what to say. Three "pretty" Moonie ladies are
      assigned to each and every single congressman and
      senator as gofer's or whatever service our lawmakers
      may need, so Dale's chipping in to this sacred cause
      is like, well, like Jimmy Carter helping Habitat for
      Humanity, a charity thing. After all, if both
      presidents Bush are close family friends of Moon, who
      could fault Dale for falling under Moon's spell? And
      maybe Moon assigned Dale three pretties...

      Dale has an American Right to freedom of religion. If
      his religion happens to be identical to Moon's, well
      that's as American as Sun Myong Moon and Rupert
      Murdoch.

      And speaking of Murdoch, he happened to have a chair
      at the table of Cato's board at the same time with a
      VP from Phillip Morris (Altria, now), so that's where
      Malloy came from -- Malloy used to run two
      disinformation outfits for the tobacco companies,
      which is why his junkscience.com website tells you
      global warming is good for you, GMOs are good for you,
      and cigaretts are good for you. Malloy never gave up
      his tobacco cash cow when he was taken on Fox as a
      client.

      So Dale, looking around America of today, seeing the
      billionaires have it all sowed up tight, decided which
      side of the bread had the butter on it. And that
      wasn't the side that likes open disclosures, freewill
      choice, or informed consent. No wonder he has no
      respect for the opinions of people who lost, are
      losing, will always be losers, because they don't
      understand the messiah's plan for a theocratic
      America, and through America's superpower, a
      theocratic world. The losers have no idea of the
      magnitude of the subversion they are facing, and lose
      their time arguing superficial things like "plant's
      rights" for gawd's sakes...

      "Saneteers" haven't ever asked themselves why all
      these billionaires, with more money than they can
      spend in the remainder of their lifetime, needs to
      pound, pound, pound on tiny organics marketshare.
      Farmers subsidize the munitions industry -- and if the
      farmers decided they didn't need to buy all those
      sacks of nitrates then the bottom is going to fall out
      from the landmine sales. It costs over $100m to build
      a basic haber-bosch plant and lots of whole entire
      countries can't afford that so they import
      fertilizers. If the farmers walk away, the
      petrochemical-munitions system is destabilized,
      because farmers are subsidizing all those little bush
      wars in Africa (and "Bush" wars elsewhere), and the
      damn hippies are not going to steal that cash cow. The
      billionaires don't need the money -- that's not an
      issue: they need the ongoing slaughter like a junkie
      needs a fix. These are satanically evil people, doing
      everyday business in a satanic way: no open
      disclosures, no freewill choices, no informed consent.
      Fits my definition of satanic, anyway.

      But I invented a non-denominational term for this
      behavior: BIOSOCIOPATHY. It has all the same
      diagnostic markers for sociopathy with the exception
      that biological systems are used as "ricochet"
      devices, inflicting wounds on targets of opportunity
      through degradation of their environment or
      degradation of their health.

      Here, from an official psychiatric definintion of
      sociopathy mental illness metric are an assortment of
      symptoms. not all symptoms exist in each psychotic
      person but every sociopath exhibits a majority of
      these:

      1) Sense of entitlement;
      2) Unremorseful; Apathetic to others
      3) Unconscionable behavior;
      4) Blameful of others;
      5) Manipulative and conning;
      6) Affectively cold;
      7) Disparate understanding;
      8) Socially irresponsible;
      9 )Disregardful of obligations;
      10) Nonconforming to norms;
      11) Irresponsible

      Here's an example of how these are applied to diagnose
      the Koch brothers:
      KOCH SYMPTOMS of SOCIOPATHY:
      1) Sense of entitlement; Yes. Killed Teens because of
      non-inspection gas pipeline for 11 years. (Court
      Records PROOF - LOST $296,000,000 court punishment --
      kids still dead.)

      2) Unremorseful; Apathetic to others: Cheated Own
      Brothers for Years (lost lawsuit), fined $30,000,000
      for polluting air-water-soils in four states, (Court
      Records PROOF - LOST $3,000,000 court punishment to
      cheated brothers, same to govt.)

      3) Unconscionable behavior; BRIBING candidates,
      funding subversive orgs. (Proofs: campaign donation
      records, candidates services to KOCH bros criminals.)

      4) Blameful of others; Environmentalists harm
      billionaires right to pollute. (Proof: 3 Koch
      foundation gifts IRS records, IRS records of receipts
      of KOCH donations by "think tank$".)

      5) Manipulative and conning; puppetmastering through
      bought politicians, funding whore science studies.
      (PROOFS: donations to, and output from discredited
      pseudo scientists.)

      6) Affectively cold; SATANICALLY SO! Cheated Brothers,
      govt, indians, public (lost lawsuits because proof
      positive was entered in permanent law records.

      7) Disparate understanding; EVERYBODY ELSE KNOWS --
      when you have more money than you can possibly spend
      in the rest of your life, take a break, enjoy
      yourself, don't subvert the country that made your
      wealth possible.

      8) Socially irresponsible; willing to gamble that
      millions, even billions of lives might be cut off by
      GLOBAL WARMING catastrophes which have been forewarned
      by RESPONSIBLE UNCORRUPTED SCIENCE.

      9) Disregardful of obligations; Tried for 91 CRIMINAL
      COUNTS of pollution -- saved by puppetmastering
      Bush/ASScroft sucker Republicans. (PROOFS: public
      records of trial.)

      10) Nonconforming to norms; Most people do not kill or
      injure their neighbors for a few more bucks after they
      have obtained their SECOND BILLION DOLLARS.

      11) Irresponsible: SPENDING SCORES OF MILLIONS OF
      DOLLARS TO SABOTAGE KYOTO using fake science from
      BRIBED scientists who haven't had their claims
      published in PEER REVIEW to injure 20,000 future
      generations because of INSATIABLE GREED!.

      Maybe Dale is a prophet of this religion...

      The false profits are paid deceivers working for such
      incredibly corrupt people as:

      Charles Coors,
      http://www.corporations.org/coors/
      http://www.radio4all.org/anarchy/fakes.html

      Sun Myung Moon,
      http://www.mapcruzin.com/news/news010301a.htm
      http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/082602a.html

      Charles G Koch,
      http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/koch.htm
      http://www.pushhamburger.com/jan03_pearl.htm
      http://www.cedar.at/mailarchives/infoterra/2001/msg00022.html
      http://www.usdoj.gov/enrd/kochpleafinal.htm

      David R. Koch,
      http://www.usdoj.gov/enrd/koch1.htm
      http://www.mndaily.com/daily/1998/04/03/world_nation/wn1.ap/
      http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=516
      http://www.claimsmag.com/Issues/February00/Record.asp

      the dead-but-still-meddling John M. Olin,
      http://www.ewg.org/reports/GeorgeWBush/enviro_advisors.html
      http://www.konformist.com/2000/stossel.htm
      http://www.radio4all.org/anarchy/fake32.html

      Richard Scaife,
      http://www.politicalamazon.com/scaifeorama.html
      http://www.mediatransparency.org/funders/scaife_foundations.htm


      L&H Bradley,
      http://www.mediatransparency.org/funders/bradley_foundation.htm
      http://www.ems.org/interior/norton_affiliations.html

      One of the clinical diagnostic features of all forms
      of SOCIOPATHY is: RECKLESS DISREGARD OF THE
      CONSEQUENCES.
      Another is PREMEDITATION.

      http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c5126841.0208010846.60c5ce6e%40posting.
      google.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain


      --- "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@...> wrote:
      > Lion Kuntz wrote:
      >
      > > Douglas, speaking for the welfare of plants,
      > advocates
      > > a "humane" approach. After all, we co-evolved out
      > of
      > > the same flesh. Plants are undoubtably complex
      > beings,
      > > with the rice plant having a far larger set of
      > genes
      > > than human beings do. Perhaps they have more going
      > on
      > > than humans can appreciate and speak for. Douglas
      > > advocates allowing domesticated plants to have
      > some
      > > destiny of their own, out-of-bounds of human
      > > interference.
      >
      > Because humans have for thousands of years
      > protected, preserved and shepherded
      > select groups of domesticated plants following their
      > own destiny, for their own uses; a win-win
      > situation.
      >
      > > Dale advocates the needs of humans to eat, which
      > > requires plants and/or meat from plant-predators,
      > and
      > > therefore optimizing human service from plants
      > (and
      > > animals).
      >
      > For the least cost, reliably government subsidized,
      > for the lowest wages, the cheapest inputs of the
      > lowest quality that will allow the job
      > to be done, with minimum environmental controls, for
      > the maximum corporate profit, the most attractive
      > bottom line and the hightest stock
      > value, for the largest corporations who share the
      > least with those who make their success possible.
      >
      > --
      > L.F.London
      > lfl@...
      > http://market-farming.com
      > http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech



      =====
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      Sincerely, Lion Kuntz
      Santa Rosa, California, USA
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4Japan/
      http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/Palaces_For_The_People.html
      http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Challenges/Asia_Floods/Wet/All_Wet.html
      http://www.ecosyn.us/Interesting/
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    • Robin, Maya, or Napi
      Welcome back, Mr. Jamie, Have missed hearing from Souscayrous, your thought- & link-rich posts. The one just sent from SANET that spells out the connections
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 31, 2003
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        Welcome back, Mr. Jamie,

        Have missed hearing from Souscayrous, your thought- & link-rich posts. The
        one just sent from SANET that spells out the connections in the US power
        structure is a doozy (Southern US slang for remarkable), as a depressing but
        necessary expose'. The link at the bottom of that post
        <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/>leads to exciting possibilities.

        Hurricane Isabel knocked us out of water for five days, out of power for
        over a week, plus knocked our beloved park trees down here & there. Catching up
        with Fukuoka group reading while dealing with the aftermath has taken a much
        longer time than a week. My prayers go to those in Japanese earthquakes,
        California wildfires, & war-torn villages who would find luxury in our situation
        at it's worst.

        Sometimes I have written here about the two Leyland Cypresses that were only
        a few feet outside the cafeteria windows; they are now leaning on the gazebo
        frame (the gazebo canopy was brought in before the winds came). Our favorite
        climbing tree is now gone. Looking back toward the school from the park, there
        were two trees blown down in one direction, one in another, two more in a third
        direction, & some just leaning precariously. We now have many holes to fill.

        The conversations here on this newsgroup, as always, inspire the highest
        goals for the work ahead of us in the school yard & park. Reading plans on this
        group for the 80 acres, & having the (relative) neighbors in BC chime right in,
        having the earnest questions asked from Turkey & a quick complete referral to
        Greece, knowing Haftl is both gardening & fighting wildfire in his head as he
        recuperates, homeschoolers Down Under, charming, useful poetry from akhan, these
        & all the rest of the communication, long timers & newbies, keep company with
        conviction in the validity of a daily study of the plants around us. Does
        anyone know if we will we see the return of the detailed botanical knowledge of
        Professor Graves? Seems like both Jamie & DG disappeared about the same time.
        Readers of the Organic Gardening group are able to follow active Ms. Gloria when
        this list is quiet. Mr. Robert has kept us informed.

        We have not yet gotten the clover seed, (thanks again to members of this
        list for their research & recommendations) but now is the time for sowing, to
        reclaim the clear cut raw clay that is all the neighboring developer has left of
        our greenway to the river. We have actively organized our volunteers for
        tree-cycling, which is to transplant small trees, shrubs, bulbs, & groundcover
        from demolition sites where new construction is not going to make use of the
        existing landscaping. We are using the urban standards to landscape by the
        state highway, because of the air pollution that must be considered. Any more
        delicate native species that we collect in tree-cycling are to be planted on the
        far side of the berm, away from the highway, where we have worked with the
        developer to reshape the block of park that he had used to store mountains of
        clay from his foundation dig. The mountains of clay buried everything that had
        been the park, even the trees. He will use his equipment to give back a small
        valley for the transitional experience of going from one block of city park that
        is a flat field with a straight walkway, down to the next block which will be a
        serpentine path through a rough, boulder strewn valley, which then leads to the
        railroad-tie stairs under the bridge (the full-accessibility ramp is not in yet,
        will be built of the dirt bulldozed out to reshape the valley), then on down to
        the footbridge over the James River. At this time, the park system is festooned
        with Isabel's left-over 'widow-makers', heavy branches just barely hanging
        overhead, waiting for a gust of wind or a cracking branch to give way for the
        whole weight to come crashing down.

        We know that we are the lucky ones. As we watched the hurricane in awe from
        the 2nd floor, the cypress would bow down & flap back up, over & over through
        the night, but they never came through the windows. When the wind died the next
        day, those trees had landed on the gazebo, oddly pointing away from the
        building, as if the force had blown right through us. Friends from here to the
        coast lost homes & businesses. Neighbors had trees in their 2nd floor bedroom,
        several knocking off hundred-year old porches, a few fell cutting cars in half,
        & some were fatal. We lost our trees, but not each other. The choice of
        replacement plantings is clearly significant in terms of whether the tree has a
        long taproot or a wide shallow spreading root system.

        N at Circle School, Richmond, Virginia, US

        jamie wrote:

        > Hello everyone, perhaps the following forwarded post will make more sense to
        > US citizens than it did to me, certainly regarding the people involved
        > anyway. However, what comes through clearly is the intensely complex
        > interrelations between money and politics in the US and the media battle for
        > the ear of the consumer/citizen.
        > Jamie
        > Souscayrous
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
        > [mailto:SANET-MG@...]On Behalf Of Lion Kuntz
        > Sent: lundi 27 octobre 2003 06:21
        > To: SANET-MG@...
        > Subject: [SANET-MG] Will you sell your country out for 70 cents?
        > > --
        > > L.F.London
        > > lfl@...
        > > http://market-farming.com
        > > http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > Sincerely, Lion Kuntz
        > Santa Rosa, California, USA
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4People/
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Palaces4Japan/
        > http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Proposal/Palaces_For_The_People.html
        > http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Challenges/Asia_Floods/Wet/All_Wet.html
        > http://www.ecosyn.us/Interesting/
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


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