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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Catching up with life Sept. 10th

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  • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
    (read.. cautioned me) that Japans volcanic soils (and thus I suppose plant reactions, growth patterns) where deceivingly different than what I would likely
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 20, 2003
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      (read.. cautioned me) that
      Japans'
      volcanic soils (and thus I suppose plant reactions, growth patterns)
      where deceivingly different than what I would likely encounter in my
      (Upstate New York State, U.S.A.) soils / plant test plots locally. I
      never forgot this gentleman's warning. So early on I had always
      assumed and expected that my research test results would (at the very
      least) be very regional in nature and perhaps not replicate well in
      my soils at all.
      again and again natural farming is not the techniques evolved in masanobu's circonstances


      <. However, I do
      suggest a lack of realization by him that the animal influence is
      taken perhaps too lightly. >

      Fukuoka suggests Natural Farming allows for insect and animal
      influences in the realm of nematode, worms, mice, chickens, ducks,
      etc. For the life of me I cannot understand what seems to be his
      underestimate of, and the restrictive limits he imposes on, the
      larger animal elements of influence

      japan is very small and overpopulated , no room for big mammals .

      you are in very different circonstances that allow and need big mammal participation but still quite different than the natural intervention on plants by big mammals. (the plants that got trampled by bisons herds for ex had many years to recover before thext visit, deers or elks here graze on large aeras not in confined fields .
      also many islands in the world ( hawai before polynesian invasion ) have done well without mammals at all .Japan are islands that can't support naturally lot of big mammal populations and even less so with the actual density of human population .


      Lastly, the wine - viniculture thing: I don't have his works
      in hand
      at the moment and it has been a few years since I read a volume of
      his works, but wasn't Fukuoka real down on viniculture?

      vines are meant to climb on trees not to be grown in isolation
      because it is a long lived plants you can imagine the depletion of soils that result in monoculture where not even weeds are allowed .
      also when you know the purpose of those fields to create wine to compensate for the feeling down resulting from unatural living and eating ....
      i remember an organic "viticulteur"( french for grape growers) calculating the amount of land needed to provide the mulch for grapes ( straw or woodchips and other possible materials )the numbers , that i can't remember , were impressive .
      the depletion of soil is also agravated by the pruning and burning of most of the year's growth.
      jean-claude


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    • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
      i was not
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 21, 2003
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        <What brand of logic is this??? Japan is FAR from being to small, ...heavily
        populated by humans undoubtedly, but not to small for big mammals.>

        i was not talking in absolute terms
        i was just meaning too small considering human population ....they have been displaced .
        in comparaison north americas support still lot of big mammals because the density is less.
        i come from Europe wher i have seen this rarefication of bigger animals in proportion of the growing density of humans .
        i have japanese friends who are in the process to move to canada because of this kind of limitations in their country .one of them raise on half an acre hundreds of chickens , grow its rice , wheat and vegetables and fruits
        make its own methan etc...
        different proportions than european and even more than the americans .

        jean-claude


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