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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Thanks and sorry !

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  • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
    anything that will promote thick vegetation . having a
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
      < and one is working with basically dead soil,
      barren soil....then what is it you would suggest?>

      anything that will promote thick vegetation .
      having a multistory vegetation being the goal as canopy also work on limiting erosion ( by filtering water from the sky )
      trees and shrubs with their imposant root systems seems to me necessarry to me on a hill side even if very sparse to allow low growing plants to have access to light ( if it is the kind of vegetation you want to favorise )
      i see making swales being okay if they are as quickly as possible recovered with vegetation with thick root systems on the steep sides
      sooner or later the erosion work will cancelled them out showing than in the absolute they didnt do anything to stop the erosion .
      this kind of work remind me of the damage done on hill side by logging road making. instead of one regular slope you have made 2 very steep sides and one flat part accentuating the global erosion , in some case even creating conditions for land slides .

      jean-claude




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    • Catherine Dionisi
      My big dictionary doesn t tell me what a SWALE is. Is there a French word for swale ? Catherine ... De : Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
        My big dictionary doesn't tell me what a SWALE is.
        Is there a French word for swale ?

        Catherine

        -----Message d'origine-----
        De : Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry [mailto:instinct@...]
        Envoy� : samedi 9 ao�t 2003 03:02
        � : fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Objet : Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Thanks and sorry !



        < Swales is maybe gathering ground water
        system
        automatically.>

        swales are human made palliatifs for what is naturally happenening on
        any hill side populated naturally by trees and bushes . the root around
        each plant trap organic matter making tiny terrasses that allow falling
        water to percolate slowly thru . the spongy caracteristics of this
        decaying organic matter serve as a reservoir any excess is percolating
        thru the next terrasses .
        swales are usefull to speed up the regeneration of hillside devastated
        by human sense of "cleanliness". missunderstood and missuses it can
        compromise the natural "terrassing " work of the existing regeneration ,
        exposing bare earth and making steep slope ( on the upper side of the
        swales ) is good way to accelerate erosion .
        what is gain by making a trench might be lost by making the walls of
        the swales .

        enhancing natural terrasses process the way Masanobu did on his hill
        side seems to me a better way than making swales the permaculture way .
        he made trenchs to burry tronc of trees . no visible swales are made
        that way but are doing the same job and better by creating a spongy
        water trap perpendicular to the slope that is also a source of
        nourishment .

        when i first heard about swales at a permaculture worshop it made me
        think of what i have seen in India .
        to respond to the erosion and desertification of the watershed of
        streams the governement invested enormous money to have stones retaining
        walls all along the hill sides to makes terrasses. ( instead of
        promoting vegetation cover that will have done a way better job )
        jean-claude


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      • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
        My big dictionary doesn t tell me what a SWALE is. Is there a French word for swale ? c est juste une tranchee creusee dans la terre parrallele aux courbes de
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
          My big dictionary doesn't tell me what a SWALE is.
          Is there a French word for swale ?

          c'est juste une tranchee creusee dans la terre parrallele aux courbes de
          niveau ou avec une pente tres douce pour retenir l'eau de surface courant
          sur la pente .ces tranchees peuvent etre connectees pour distribuer l'eau
          tout le long de la pente .l'eau venant du haut s'accumule dans ce fosse et
          doucement infiltre la terre
          jean-claude
        • Gloria C. Baikauskas
          Never worry, Jean-Claude! My love of trees means they are an integral part of all landscaping, growing on my property. I plan all beds around trees
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
            Never worry, Jean-Claude! My love of trees means they are an
            integral part of all landscaping, growing on my property. I plan all
            beds around trees here....except....

            In this one case with the swales I dug.....I didn't have any trees
            nearby. I am hoping to correct that by adding at least one tree
            where the swales exist. In a dryland setting such as Texas it is
            imperative to me to have trees. My orchard is on the slope of this
            hill. I need to add some trees with larger canopies there to help
            them, though. I hadn't come to this information when I had planted
            them. I didn't know of either Fukuoka then, nor Permaculture.

            The way I learned of Fukuoka at all was when I posted something I had
            begun doing that was yielding a great success for me. Someone on
            that list mentioned that what I had done was just as Fukuoka said to
            do in his books....and mentioned this list group. I learned of
            Permaculture after that. The Man Who Farms Water URL sent here was
            the inspiration for my swales.....not Permaculture which I learned
            about here.

            I am a seeker who does things on my own and seems to have come to the
            same ideas along the way as Fukuoka in some instances. I am still
            learning...as are we all all the days of our lives.
            Gloria
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