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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Thanks and sorry !

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  • ??? ????
    Gloria san Sorry I can t change my sending name from japanese to english yet. I have guessed that swales was like a well which pomping up water to the surface
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 8, 2003
      Gloria san
      Sorry I can't change my sending name from japanese to english yet.
      I have guessed that swales was like a well which pomping up water to the
      surface
      of the earth. I know it is wrong now. Swales is maybe gathering ground water
      system
      automatically.
      I used to speak some English when I was a twenties. I have lost
      most of it. Your writing is just fitted to my case .
      This list is good to exercise in English.
      2 years ago I went to Van Couber Canada where I met English speaking people.
      I could understand 20% about what they wanted to say.
      Anyway I am joyful to talk together with native speaker in writing.
      hidesan



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
      swales are human made palliatifs for what is naturally happenening on any hill side populated
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 8, 2003
        < Swales is maybe gathering ground water
        system
        automatically.>

        swales are human made palliatifs for what is naturally happenening on any hill side populated naturally by trees and bushes . the root around each plant trap organic matter making tiny terrasses that allow falling water to percolate slowly thru . the spongy caracteristics of this decaying organic matter serve as a reservoir any excess is percolating thru the next terrasses .
        swales are usefull to speed up the regeneration of hillside devastated by human sense of "cleanliness". missunderstood and missuses it can compromise the natural "terrassing " work of the existing regeneration , exposing bare earth and making steep slope ( on the upper side of the swales ) is good way to accelerate erosion .
        what is gain by making a trench might be lost by making the walls of the swales .

        enhancing natural terrasses process the way Masanobu did on his hill side seems to me a better way than making swales the permaculture way .
        he made trenchs to burry tronc of trees . no visible swales are made that way but are doing the same job and better by creating a spongy water trap perpendicular to the slope that is also a source of nourishment .

        when i first heard about swales at a permaculture worshop it made me think of what i have seen in India .
        to respond to the erosion and desertification of the watershed of streams the governement invested enormous money to have stones retaining walls all along the hill sides to makes terrasses. ( instead of promoting vegetation cover that will have done a way better job )
        jean-claude


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gloria C. Baikauskas
        Jean-Claude......do you not think that when the swales contain growing plants that they will work just as well? My slope here is not enough to warrant
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 8, 2003
          Jean-Claude......do you not think that when the swales contain
          growing plants that they will work just as well? My slope here is
          not enough to warrant terracing. Still I had erosion which is why I
          dug the swales as an experiment. I did also add small round mounds
          between my swales, as you know from my previous posts. This seems to
          be working.....particularly since I decided to let the weeds populate
          the swales. The weeds are enhancing the growth, and the health of
          the plants I did sow into the soil.

          I guess what I am saying is that when one has a hillside with trees
          one can use as Fukuoka did then that way......the terracing and
          burying of trees will work splendidly (from what you say), but when
          that is not the case, and one is working with basically dead soil,
          barren soil....then what is it you would suggest?
          Gloria, Texas, US
        • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
          anything that will promote thick vegetation . having a
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
            < and one is working with basically dead soil,
            barren soil....then what is it you would suggest?>

            anything that will promote thick vegetation .
            having a multistory vegetation being the goal as canopy also work on limiting erosion ( by filtering water from the sky )
            trees and shrubs with their imposant root systems seems to me necessarry to me on a hill side even if very sparse to allow low growing plants to have access to light ( if it is the kind of vegetation you want to favorise )
            i see making swales being okay if they are as quickly as possible recovered with vegetation with thick root systems on the steep sides
            sooner or later the erosion work will cancelled them out showing than in the absolute they didnt do anything to stop the erosion .
            this kind of work remind me of the damage done on hill side by logging road making. instead of one regular slope you have made 2 very steep sides and one flat part accentuating the global erosion , in some case even creating conditions for land slides .

            jean-claude




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Catherine Dionisi
            My big dictionary doesn t tell me what a SWALE is. Is there a French word for swale ? Catherine ... De : Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
              My big dictionary doesn't tell me what a SWALE is.
              Is there a French word for swale ?

              Catherine

              -----Message d'origine-----
              De : Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry [mailto:instinct@...]
              Envoy� : samedi 9 ao�t 2003 03:02
              � : fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              Objet : Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Thanks and sorry !



              < Swales is maybe gathering ground water
              system
              automatically.>

              swales are human made palliatifs for what is naturally happenening on
              any hill side populated naturally by trees and bushes . the root around
              each plant trap organic matter making tiny terrasses that allow falling
              water to percolate slowly thru . the spongy caracteristics of this
              decaying organic matter serve as a reservoir any excess is percolating
              thru the next terrasses .
              swales are usefull to speed up the regeneration of hillside devastated
              by human sense of "cleanliness". missunderstood and missuses it can
              compromise the natural "terrassing " work of the existing regeneration ,
              exposing bare earth and making steep slope ( on the upper side of the
              swales ) is good way to accelerate erosion .
              what is gain by making a trench might be lost by making the walls of
              the swales .

              enhancing natural terrasses process the way Masanobu did on his hill
              side seems to me a better way than making swales the permaculture way .
              he made trenchs to burry tronc of trees . no visible swales are made
              that way but are doing the same job and better by creating a spongy
              water trap perpendicular to the slope that is also a source of
              nourishment .

              when i first heard about swales at a permaculture worshop it made me
              think of what i have seen in India .
              to respond to the erosion and desertification of the watershed of
              streams the governement invested enormous money to have stones retaining
              walls all along the hill sides to makes terrasses. ( instead of
              promoting vegetation cover that will have done a way better job )
              jean-claude


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
              My big dictionary doesn t tell me what a SWALE is. Is there a French word for swale ? c est juste une tranchee creusee dans la terre parrallele aux courbes de
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
                My big dictionary doesn't tell me what a SWALE is.
                Is there a French word for swale ?

                c'est juste une tranchee creusee dans la terre parrallele aux courbes de
                niveau ou avec une pente tres douce pour retenir l'eau de surface courant
                sur la pente .ces tranchees peuvent etre connectees pour distribuer l'eau
                tout le long de la pente .l'eau venant du haut s'accumule dans ce fosse et
                doucement infiltre la terre
                jean-claude
              • Gloria C. Baikauskas
                Never worry, Jean-Claude! My love of trees means they are an integral part of all landscaping, growing on my property. I plan all beds around trees
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 9, 2003
                  Never worry, Jean-Claude! My love of trees means they are an
                  integral part of all landscaping, growing on my property. I plan all
                  beds around trees here....except....

                  In this one case with the swales I dug.....I didn't have any trees
                  nearby. I am hoping to correct that by adding at least one tree
                  where the swales exist. In a dryland setting such as Texas it is
                  imperative to me to have trees. My orchard is on the slope of this
                  hill. I need to add some trees with larger canopies there to help
                  them, though. I hadn't come to this information when I had planted
                  them. I didn't know of either Fukuoka then, nor Permaculture.

                  The way I learned of Fukuoka at all was when I posted something I had
                  begun doing that was yielding a great success for me. Someone on
                  that list mentioned that what I had done was just as Fukuoka said to
                  do in his books....and mentioned this list group. I learned of
                  Permaculture after that. The Man Who Farms Water URL sent here was
                  the inspiration for my swales.....not Permaculture which I learned
                  about here.

                  I am a seeker who does things on my own and seems to have come to the
                  same ideas along the way as Fukuoka in some instances. I am still
                  learning...as are we all all the days of our lives.
                  Gloria
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