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Seed balls and thick matted grass

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  • assisi1948
    Dear Friends, I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it has been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6 years no
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 30, 2003
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      Dear Friends,
      I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it has
      been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6
      years no one has cut the grass and it has become VERY matted with
      each year's snow crushing the grass and then the next year's grass
      growing up between. My question is : If I throw seed balls out [ of
      clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of growth or do I need to
      cut and roto till the land first to get to the earth. With the many
      yaers of cutting the soil is poor and very much clay.

      Thanks
      Scotty
    • rw26@lrw.net
      Last night I was reading in one straw revolution and got the impression that what fukuoka was really trying to say is to learn to listen to nature and
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 30, 2003
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        Last night I was reading in 'one straw revolution' and got the impression
        that what fukuoka was really trying to say is to learn to listen to nature
        and observe nature. One could ask of nature "would this matting of grasses
        cause the land to become infertile if left to nature? Is snow-crushed
        grassland capable of growing clover and alfalfa without tilling?"

        --randy


        On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, assisi1948 wrote:

        > Dear Friends,
        > I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it has
        > been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6
        > years no one has cut the grass and it has become VERY matted with
        > each year's snow crushing the grass and then the next year's grass
        > growing up between. My question is : If I throw seed balls out [ of
        > clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of growth or do I need to
        > cut and roto till the land first to get to the earth. With the many
        > yaers of cutting the soil is poor and very much clay.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Scotty
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Tim Peters
        Scotty, you will never know if you don t try it. ...I would be skeptical of you having a good result without some soil amending (like limes) and some soil
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 30, 2003
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          Scotty,
          you will never know if you don't try it. ...I would be skeptical of you
          having a good result without some soil amending (like limes) and some soil
          working to give the seeds a break for sunlight.

          snow matting down the grass is wonderful. Out here at the lower elevations
          where it never gets pushed down the standing dead straw can choke the grass
          to where it grows very very poorly, and very few seedlings can ever
          establish. ...mice will eat off sprouts in places like that, like chinamen
          at a dinnertable... you won't see one in a thousand

          I know. But try it. Know for yourself.

          Tim Peters


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "assisi1948" <nowmind1948@...>
          To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:16 AM
          Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Seed balls and thick matted grass


          > Dear Friends,
          > I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it has
          > been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6
          > years no one has cut the grass and it has become VERY matted with
          > each year's snow crushing the grass and then the next year's grass
          > growing up between. My question is : If I throw seed balls out [ of
          > clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of growth or do I need to
          > cut and roto till the land first to get to the earth. With the many
          > yaers of cutting the soil is poor and very much clay.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Scotty
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          >
        • Jeneva Storme
          I would try the seedballs in the existing grass mat first. Tilling the vegetation into the soil isn t actually the best thing to do, I learned recently during
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 31, 2003
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            I would try the seedballs in the existing grass mat
            first. Tilling the vegetation into the soil isn't
            actually the best thing to do, I learned recently
            during an arborist course. It creates too sharp a
            horizon in the soil instead of the layers that form
            naturally from the top down, and can actually inhibit
            drainage and other important aspects of soil
            structure.

            If the ground beneath the mat is seriously compacted
            or otherwise hard, I would seed first with some very
            strong-rooted plants to penetrate the clay and
            fiberize the soil, as per Weston A. Price's book
            "Weeds -- Guardians of the Soil" (available for
            reading in its entirely online at
            http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/weeds/WeedsToC.html
            ). Depending on what you want to do with the land in
            the long run, you can use either "weeds" or
            strong-rooted crops like daikon radish or even
            potatoes to loosen the soil. I am saving rough
            pigweed seed to do something similar to the very hard
            compacted clay soil in our yard, once we have a fence
            to keep out the foot traffic that has made it so. I'm
            planning on using a combination of weeds and mulch to
            soften the earth so that I can eventually plant a
            permanent herb and flower garden there.

            If the grass mat is very thick, you might also just
            try planting seedballs of your desired crop directly
            in it, depending on how much rain you get in your
            area. Soil is often built up simply by piling mulch
            on top year after year, and from what I hear this is
            much better for the soil structure and ecology than
            tilling the vegetation into the ground. It sounds
            like it's got a good layer of mulch already, so if you
            continue to build on that by knocking down the stalks
            of your crops at the end of the season, or mowing and
            laying it down uncut after harvest like Fukuoka, it
            might do fine.

            Bear in mind that this is all purely speculative, I
            haven't had any direct experience with this
            reclamation technique myself, but as a botanist, a
            gardener and now an arborist, from what I've learned
            so far it makes sense to me. Your mileage may vary --
            and I'm sure we'd all be very interested to hear about
            what you decide to do and how it works out.

            Shade and Sweet Water,
            Jeneva Storme

            =====
            Greening West Broadway Coordinator
            "Neighbourhood Solutions for Community Change"

            West Broadway Development Corporation
            640 Broadway, Winnipeg, MB R3C 0X3
            phone: 774-3534 fax: 779-2203
            website: http://www.westbroadway.mb.ca

            ______________________________________________________________________
            Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
          • Sharon Gordon
            I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it has been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6 years no one has cut the
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 23, 2003
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              I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it has
              been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6
              years no one has cut the grass and it has become VERY matted with
              each year's snow crushing the grass and then the next year's grass
              growing up between. My question is : If I throw seed balls out [ of
              clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of growth or do I need to
              cut and roto till the land first to get to the earth. With the many
              yaers of cutting the soil is poor and very much clay.

              ***One thing you can do with land like this is grow daikon radishes and/or
              the largest beets you can find. Then let the root rot into the soil. This
              will put a lot of plant matter into the soil and also open a channel deeper
              into the ground.

              ***You can also use dandelions(you might especially like some of the Italian
              strains of seeds) to bring up nutrients from 3+ feet down. These are good
              to eat and also have medicinal uses. But I don't know whether this would
              create weed problems for you in terms of other things you would like to do
              with the land.

              Sharon
              gordonse@...
            • Gloria C. Baikauskas
              ... like to do ... Weeds are not a bad thing, though. They will tell you often better than anything else what is going on with your soil. If you will notice
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 23, 2003
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                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon Gordon"
                <gordonse@o...> wrote:
                > But I don't know whether this would
                > create weed problems for you in terms of other things you would
                like to do
                > with the land.
                >
                > Sharon
                > gordonse@o...

                Weeds are not a bad thing, though. They will tell you often better
                than anything else what is going on with your soil. If you will
                notice over time the weeds growing on the land will change as the
                jobs of the older weeds are done, and new varieties take their
                places. It is something I have noticed with my once dead land here
                in Texas. Slowly as it recovers each year the weeds change in the
                spots where progress has taken place.

                Weeds are Nature's most adapted, and hardiest plants. I don't know
                the names of them all as yet.....nor what each one is purported to
                do. I have closely watched the land, though, and do know that this
                progression of weed plants occurs. When I dig into the soil a bit to
                check on any critters that might be there where once there were none,
                I always find new critters........the worms bring the brightest
                smiles to my face, though. Sometimes it is the ants we all seem to
                dread so much. They have their job, too.

                It is all just Nature at work.
                Gloria
              • offeringsoftheland
                ... better ... here ... know ... this ... to ... none, ... to ... hi Sharon and Gloria my name is Les, i m a market grower in sonoma county ca. the past
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 28, 2003
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                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Gloria C. Baikauskas"
                  <gcb49@f...> wrote:
                  > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon Gordon"
                  > <gordonse@o...> wrote:
                  > > But I don't know whether this would
                  > > create weed problems for you in terms of other things you would
                  > like to do
                  > > with the land.
                  > >
                  > > Sharon
                  > > gordonse@o...
                  >
                  > Weeds are not a bad thing, though. They will tell you often
                  better
                  > than anything else what is going on with your soil. If you will
                  > notice over time the weeds growing on the land will change as the
                  > jobs of the older weeds are done, and new varieties take their
                  > places. It is something I have noticed with my once dead land
                  here
                  > in Texas. Slowly as it recovers each year the weeds change in the
                  > spots where progress has taken place.
                  >
                  > Weeds are Nature's most adapted, and hardiest plants. I don't
                  know
                  > the names of them all as yet.....nor what each one is purported to
                  > do. I have closely watched the land, though, and do know that
                  this
                  > progression of weed plants occurs. When I dig into the soil a bit
                  to
                  > check on any critters that might be there where once there were
                  none,
                  > I always find new critters........the worms bring the brightest
                  > smiles to my face, though. Sometimes it is the ants we all seem
                  to
                  > dread so much. They have their job, too.
                  >
                  > It is all just Nature at work.
                  > Gloria

                  hi Sharon and Gloria
                  my name is Les, i'm a market grower in sonoma county ca. the past
                  sixteen years i've been trying to apply no till to row crop
                  controll,fall, winter, and early spring were the best learning times
                  for me. your observations on weed rotation is very correct. i relied
                  on edible plants for our winter salads, so incuraged their growth.
                  but i need feedback from others on my observations, the field when i
                  began was covered with wild oat. one light applacation of chicken
                  manure mixed with rice hulls, brought the field to life. i incuraged
                  wild radish, mustard, chickweed, miners lettuce,lambsquarterand six
                  to eight more. five years into this i noticed that when wild radish
                  domanated an area it choked out the wild oat, rye, and other
                  grasses. this seemed to allow the chickweed and miners lettuce to
                  move in and domanate, with only a little mustard an radish. than the
                  next year the grasses would come back by about a third of the area.
                  this may have been a balance point. now to shorten this. their is a
                  book on line you may enjoy looking at. you will find the book on
                  journeytoforever.org on their home page scroll down left side to
                  small farm library (13 pages of on line books, you might also open
                  soil and health library 30plus pgs.) than look for Weeds--Guardians
                  of the Soil by Joseph A. Cocannouer. with all that i'll say enjoy
                  and do well Les
                • Art Petrzelka
                  ... I recommend that book highly. I think it s a great rundown on the benefits of weeds. By a happy accident, the weeds got away from me in my garden this
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 29, 2003
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                    On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 08:48, Gloria C. Baikauskas wrote:
                    > > soil and health library 30plus pgs.) than look for Weeds--
                    > Guardians
                    > > of the Soil by Joseph A. Cocannouer. with all that i'll say enjoy
                    > > and do well Les
                    >
                    > Wow! Great observations and report, Les. Glad to meet you. I keep
                    > meaning to read that book. My dh has been out of work for 6mos.

                    I recommend that book highly. I think it's a great rundown on the
                    benefits of weeds. By a happy accident, the weeds got away from me in my
                    garden this year. The last month here in Iowa has been a delayed,
                    extended drought. Usually we get three weeks of dry weather in July.
                    This year, we're at four weeks and counting.

                    The weeds have kept my potatoes shaded and kept them from drying out
                    completely. I dug a few hills, and got the best tasting potatoes! I have
                    a small problem with small pinholes in the potatoes. About 5% of them
                    have had a root growing into them about 1/8 inch. Could be wireworm,
                    too. Anyway, they are healthy potatoes.

                    According to the book, the weeds break the hardpan, bring up minerals
                    and moisture, and allow the plant roots to penetrate deeper along the
                    path that the weed roots break open.

                    95% of the weeds are pigweed and lambsquarters. The rest are
                    buttonweeds, hemp and an amazingly large crop of horse nettles. I have
                    to watch where I kneel or sit!
                    --
                    -----
                    Art Petrzelka
                    Amana, Iowa, USA
                    USDA Hardiness Zone 5a
                  • Gloria C. Baikauskas
                    ... wrote: your observations on weed rotation is very correct. i relied ... i ... incuraged ... the ... Guardians ... Wow! Great
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 29, 2003
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                      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "offeringsoftheland"
                      <offeringsoftheland@y...> wrote:
                      your observations on weed rotation is very correct. i relied
                      > on edible plants for our winter salads, so incuraged their growth.
                      > but i need feedback from others on my observations, the field when
                      i
                      > began was covered with wild oat. one light applacation of chicken
                      > manure mixed with rice hulls, brought the field to life. i
                      incuraged
                      > wild radish, mustard, chickweed, miners lettuce,lambsquarterand six
                      > to eight more. five years into this i noticed that when wild radish
                      > domanated an area it choked out the wild oat, rye, and other
                      > grasses. this seemed to allow the chickweed and miners lettuce to
                      > move in and domanate, with only a little mustard an radish. than
                      the
                      > next year the grasses would come back by about a third of the area.
                      > this may have been a balance point. now to shorten this. their is a
                      > book on line you may enjoy looking at. you will find the book on
                      > journeytoforever.org on their home page scroll down left side to
                      > small farm library (13 pages of on line books, you might also open
                      > soil and health library 30plus pgs.) than look for Weeds--
                      Guardians
                      > of the Soil by Joseph A. Cocannouer. with all that i'll say enjoy
                      > and do well Les

                      Wow! Great observations and report, Les. Glad to meet you. I keep
                      meaning to read that book. My dh has been out of work for 6mos.
                      adding stress to my life........but yesterday he got a job!
                      So.....maybe now I will settle down and truly read it.

                      Are you saying that you basically used the edible weeds as cover
                      crops, too? Or only allowed their growth in what may be in
                      California.....their normal growth period? Did you need to reapply
                      the chicken manure/rice hull mixture before growing your summer
                      crops?

                      Did you see an increase in overall health rotating your summer crops
                      with the edible weeds?
                      Gloria
                    • offeringsoftheland
                      ... you is what do you want to do with the meadow? six years with no soil disruption is grand. also was a hard pan created by the horses and or other activity?
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 31, 2003
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                        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon Gordon"
                        <gordonse@o...> wrote:
                        > hi Sharon, my name is Les i'am new to this site. my question to
                        you is what do you want to do with the meadow? six years with no
                        soil disruption is grand. also was a hard pan created by the horses
                        and or other activity? have you checked the meadow for worm or
                        rodants, something that maybe tilling for you. do the grasses grow
                        only knee high,or higher? i now question the use of manures when we
                        might over do and create an imbalance on our fields,but a little bit
                        of dry fines that you can spread litely would be interesting. maybe
                        interducing some red worms to that six year old grass mat, along
                        with a few night crawlers, increasing life activity on the meadow.
                        the manure will increase your microbial population,just don't over
                        do. next year maybe you can plant some pumkins in the meadow just
                        for the worms. do well Les
                        > I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it
                        has
                        > been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6
                        > years no one has cut the grass and it has become VERY matted with
                        > each year's snow crushing the grass and then the next year's grass
                        > growing up between. My question is : If I throw seed balls out [ of
                        > clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of growth or do I need
                        to
                        > cut and roto till the land first to get to the earth. With the many
                        > yaers of cutting the soil is poor and very much clay.
                        >
                        > ***One thing you can do with land like this is grow daikon
                        radishes and/or
                        > the largest beets you can find. Then let the root rot into the
                        soil. This
                        > will put a lot of plant matter into the soil and also open a
                        channel deeper
                        > into the ground.
                        >
                        > ***You can also use dandelions(you might especially like some of
                        the Italian
                        > strains of seeds) to bring up nutrients from 3+ feet down. These
                        are good
                        > to eat and also have medicinal uses. But I don't know whether
                        this would
                        > create weed problems for you in terms of other things you would
                        like to do
                        > with the land.
                        >
                        > Sharon
                        > gordonse@o...
                      • Mark Thomas Nickum
                        Consider burning. I don t know your surroundings, but fall is the time for burning. I went to undergraduate school at Knox College in Galesburg Illinois.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 1, 2003
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                          Consider burning. I don't know your surroundings, but fall is the time
                          for burning. I went to undergraduate school at Knox College in Galesburg
                          Illinois. Our ecology professor spent 30+ years of his life restoring
                          prairies. Every fall, we as students got a crew together, and followed
                          him to burn the many nearby prairies he had replanted. Then you don't
                          have to rototill, or worry about disturbing any progress that has been
                          made. And the next year's grass, alfalfa, etc, should come through nice
                          and strong without the heavy thatch layer.

                          BEFORE YOU DO, research the species you have growing. Many should be
                          perennials and will come right up with no harm in the spring.

                          SAFETY!!! When burning, you must plan small backfires DOWNWIND before you
                          light the major fire. Then when the main blaze follows the wind and burns
                          your land, it will reach the designated cutoff point made by your
                          backfire, have no more fuel, and will stop burning.

                          See if there are some university people nearby who can help you with this.
                          You need buckets, mops, water (for smothering backfire flames) and some
                          sort of torch. Find people who know what they are doing, because it can
                          be very dangerous. I don't know if you have been watching PBS lately, but
                          they have had some stories about the forest fire fighters of past and
                          present. Much good and much bad was shown, with a few disasterous
                          results. The fire jumpers are quite brave and strong people.

                          Best,
                          -Mark Nickum

                          On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, offeringsoftheland wrote:

                          > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon Gordon"
                          > <gordonse@o...> wrote:
                          > > hi Sharon, my name is Les i'am new to this site. my question to
                          > you is what do you want to do with the meadow? six years with no
                          > soil disruption is grand. also was a hard pan created by the horses
                          > and or other activity? have you checked the meadow for worm or
                          > rodants, something that maybe tilling for you. do the grasses grow
                          > only knee high,or higher? i now question the use of manures when we
                          > might over do and create an imbalance on our fields,but a little bit
                          > of dry fines that you can spread litely would be interesting. maybe
                          > interducing some red worms to that six year old grass mat, along
                          > with a few night crawlers, increasing life activity on the meadow.
                          > the manure will increase your microbial population,just don't over
                          > do. next year maybe you can plant some pumkins in the meadow just
                          > for the worms. do well Les
                          > > I have just purchased some land here in Maine. For many years it
                          > has
                          > > been a meadow for growing hay for race horses. For the past 5-6
                          > > years no one has cut the grass and it has become VERY matted with
                          > > each year's snow crushing the grass and then the next year's grass
                          > > growing up between. My question is : If I throw seed balls out [ of
                          > > clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of growth or do I need
                          > to
                          > > cut and roto till the land first to get to the earth. With the many
                          > > yaers of cutting the soil is poor and very much clay.
                          > >
                          > > ***One thing you can do with land like this is grow daikon
                          > radishes and/or
                          > > the largest beets you can find. Then let the root rot into the
                          > soil. This
                          > > will put a lot of plant matter into the soil and also open a
                          > channel deeper
                          > > into the ground.
                          > >
                          > > ***You can also use dandelions(you might especially like some of
                          > the Italian
                          > > strains of seeds) to bring up nutrients from 3+ feet down. These
                          > are good
                          > > to eat and also have medicinal uses. But I don't know whether
                          > this would
                          > > create weed problems for you in terms of other things you would
                          > like to do
                          > > with the land.
                          > >
                          > > Sharon
                          > > gordonse@o...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • les landeck
                          Hi Mark, thank you for your interest. in my area we have to many homes in the half million plus value, the environment in regards to smoke is another
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 1, 2003
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                            Hi Mark, thank you for your interest. in my area we
                            have to many homes in the half million plus value, the
                            environment in regards to smoke is another
                            problem.(California, is also banning the burning of
                            rice straw.)i would like to find a source of
                            organically grow rice straw. and for my fields needs
                            every bit of growth was necessary in fiber form to
                            protect the soil and build a habitat for the microbial
                            world. with a well producing only fifteen gallons per
                            minute it's a stretch to maintain three plus acres
                            salad greens and root crops, we do not have any rain
                            starting in May until late October and at times into
                            December. i'm considering a move to Oregon, and i'm
                            wighting the possibility of going to chicken tractors,
                            maybe with some geese and ducks. thats another storie.
                            i believe there is a place or maybe better a time to
                            burn a field. maybe every ten or twenty years. i don't
                            believe the Native Americans would burn the same field
                            each year. but i may be wrong. i like to think about
                            the book Secrete Life of Plants before i do anything
                            to disrupt any life on the field.do i always chose the
                            life affirming way? No. i have to make choices, i only
                            can hope to find a way to make a better choice the
                            next time. thats my storie Mark come back to me with
                            more of yours. do well Les
                            --- Mark Thomas Nickum <nickum@...> wrote:
                            > Consider burning. I don't know your surroundings,
                            > but fall is the time
                            > for burning. I went to undergraduate school at Knox
                            > College in Galesburg
                            > Illinois. Our ecology professor spent 30+ years of
                            > his life restoring
                            > prairies. Every fall, we as students got a crew
                            > together, and followed
                            > him to burn the many nearby prairies he had
                            > replanted. Then you don't
                            > have to rototill, or worry about disturbing any
                            > progress that has been
                            > made. And the next year's grass, alfalfa, etc,
                            > should come through nice
                            > and strong without the heavy thatch layer.
                            >
                            > BEFORE YOU DO, research the species you have
                            > growing. Many should be
                            > perennials and will come right up with no harm in
                            > the spring.
                            >
                            > SAFETY!!! When burning, you must plan small
                            > backfires DOWNWIND before you
                            > light the major fire. Then when the main blaze
                            > follows the wind and burns
                            > your land, it will reach the designated cutoff point
                            > made by your
                            > backfire, have no more fuel, and will stop burning.
                            >
                            > See if there are some university people nearby who
                            > can help you with this.
                            > You need buckets, mops, water (for smothering
                            > backfire flames) and some
                            > sort of torch. Find people who know what they are
                            > doing, because it can
                            > be very dangerous. I don't know if you have been
                            > watching PBS lately, but
                            > they have had some stories about the forest fire
                            > fighters of past and
                            > present. Much good and much bad was shown, with a
                            > few disasterous
                            > results. The fire jumpers are quite brave and
                            > strong people.
                            >
                            > Best,
                            > -Mark Nickum
                            >
                            > On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, offeringsoftheland wrote:
                            >
                            > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon
                            > Gordon"
                            > > <gordonse@o...> wrote:
                            > > > hi Sharon, my name is Les i'am new to this site.
                            > my question to
                            > > you is what do you want to do with the meadow? six
                            > years with no
                            > > soil disruption is grand. also was a hard pan
                            > created by the horses
                            > > and or other activity? have you checked the meadow
                            > for worm or
                            > > rodents, something that maybe tilling for you. do
                            > the grasses grow
                            > > only knee high,or higher? i now question the use
                            > of manures when we
                            > > might over do and create an imbalance on our
                            > fields,but a little bit
                            > > of dry fines that you can spread litely would be
                            > interesting. maybe
                            > > introducing some red worms to that six year old
                            > grass mat, along
                            > > with a few night crawlers, increasing life
                            > activity on the meadow.
                            > > the manure will increase your microbial
                            > population,just don't over
                            > > do. next year maybe you can plant some pumpkins in
                            > the meadow just
                            > > for the worms. do well Les
                            > > > I have just purchased some land here in Maine.
                            > For many years it
                            > > has
                            > > > been a meadow for growing hay for race horses.
                            > For the past 5-6
                            > > > years no one has cut the grass and it has become
                            > VERY matted with
                            > > > each year's snow crushing the grass and then the
                            > next year's grass
                            > > > growing up between. My question is : If I throw
                            > seed balls out [ of
                            > > > clover and alfalfa ] can I expect some type of
                            > growth or do I need
                            > > to
                            > > > cut and roto till the land first to get to the
                            > earth. With the many
                            > > > years of cutting the soil is poor and very much
                            > clay.
                            > > >
                            > > > ***One thing you can do with land like this is
                            > grow daikon
                            > > radishes and/or
                            > > > the largest beets you can find. Then let the
                            > root rot into the
                            > > soil. This
                            > > > will put a lot of plant matter into the soil and
                            > also open a
                            > > channel deeper
                            > > > into the ground.
                            > > >
                            > > > ***You can also use dandelions(you might
                            > especially like some of
                            > > the Italian
                            > > > strains of seeds) to bring up nutrients from 3+
                            > feet down. These
                            > > are good
                            > > > to eat and also have medicinal uses. But I
                            > don't know whether
                            > > this would
                            > > > create weed problems for you in terms of other
                            > things you would
                            > > like to do
                            > > > with the land.
                            > > >
                            > > > Sharon
                            > > > gordonse@o...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >


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