- Ive finally had a few minutes to scan the recent posts, including some
of the longer or less relevant looking bits that I skipped earlier. Such
wonderful diversity (including points that vary from profound to
nonsensical!). Overall there is more of aether and less of earth than I
like, but then obviously tastes do differ.
It is refreshing to see that real dialogue seems to be springing up
again. The reduced frequency of grandiose rants, insults and ad hominem
arguments is wonderful. Thoughtful, considerate posts, full of reasoning
and information, are a delight to see, especially when the writer is
polite. I think this last is more than a mere personal preference of
mine. People from every traditional culture I know of, Eastern or
Western, Civilized or Aboriginal, valued courtesy more highly than
most moderns do. I think they and all our ancestors were on to something
important there. Everybody has tender toes when it comes to one or
several subjects. Everybody can be induced to jump up on a soapbox and
start shouting if the right (or wrong) topic is raised. Some of us do
this occasionally. Some of us do it almost all the time. ;-) Good
manners might be the only glue that can hold a diverse group like ours
For a while I wondered if our tiny group of correspondents might be
fooled, and break out into a little holy war, with various members
quoting Holy Text at each other, or otherwise declaring themselves to be
sole inheritors and apostles of the Faith Once Delivered. There was even
what sounded suspiciously like a call for a crusade against heretics,
revisionists, and unbelievers. Words wielded like swords, and chunks of
text lobbed like the ammunition from siege engines (or was that search
engines?). A severe flaming would, I suppose, have been equivalent to
being burned at the stake. If behaviour like that became general it
would be very funny, but more than a little sad.
A couple of practical suggestions for the group to consider:
1) When quoting large chunks of text, why not attach them to the files
section of the website, and reserve the posts for comments? In the case
of references to One Straw Revolution, what about merely referring to
the existing text, since it is already there and available? Some people
may still be getting clogged mailboxes.
2) What about a common system of labeling? Theory and practice are two
sides of the same indivisible coin, but perhaps some of the more
practical minded members of the group would like to know ahead of time
which of the posts they might like to skip. Members could preface a new
topic with a P for practical and a T for theoretical. If these tags
were at the beginning of the topic line, then a quick sort on the topics
would allow readers to see which are the juiciest bits (depending on
whether they are looking for gathering and gardening tips or whether
they want to discuss politics, religion, and philosophy). If somebody
objects to two-valued systems (on philosophical grounds, of course!), we
could add another category or two. My suggestion would be "O", for
"other" -- something the writer would like to say, but which has little
or no connection to Fukuoka's work.
P.S. I wonder what a tally of our recent posts would look like if the
labels I'm suggesting were used?
Between the idea and the reality
Between the notion and the act
Falls the shadow
- Hi Stephen,
A recent tally of posts would probably include many PTOQ, a combination of the useful categories you have suggested, & quotes.
Sorry to read that quotes are clogging mailboxes. Guess we all need to know what is the courteous maximum physical size of fully loaded post.
One screen's worth? One page down's worth? We would need to consider the length of the (usually exerpted) quote that is carried forward when we
reply. Some of us have been (inadvertently selfishly) finding the quotes convenient with the limited time we have to check messages & follow links &
go back & forth to comments on those links. When a quote resonates, it is easy to savor or to save. If not, as you have said, we can frequently use
the delete button. Members who are on a tight paid minute meter of the time it takes to download or to research & follow links may already be finding
this message more expensive than it is worth.
Members must use dozens of ways to approach the mail of this group, as we use dozens of ways to garden within our commonality of admiration for
natural farming. At the end of any work week, I have generally saved a hundred or more longer Fukuoka messages for a good reading time. Some do
catch the eye to be read right away as they come in, either because of subject or author. Now & then it is helpful to go the site & backtrack to read
a whole thread.
I confess that I enjoy all the authors here. Some for their reliably informative posts, some for their tone, whether kooky, wry or warm to me,
some for their unpredictable tangents that offer unexpectedly valid perspectives, some for their well-written philosophical depth.
The memorable poem below is an excellent example. Several original poems have enriched the past months' posts. Guess poetry would often be
posted with prefix P,T,O,Q, or any combination.
At school here, we constantly play alphabetizing games. (Can we name a child of our extended family whose name starts with each letter, a flower
that starts with each letter, a tree? It is the kind of game that is played while you are not even playing, in exercising that manner of cross
referencing, in child or adult, it just pops out while anything else is going on.) Sounds annoying, I'm sure, but it is part of a good learning
At any rate, I am willing to limit posts by agreement to marks of P,T, & O, even though we could use 26 English letters to stand for more
forewarning about the subjects already named in the subject box (A-Acacia, B-Berms, C-Cilantro, ... G-Guilds,...M-Microorganisms, P-Poetry...), or
combinations (Philosophy of Eating Raw Potatoes or Zoology of Soil-Dwelling Creatures), or create another alphabet (~=Gardens in Spain), or
disseminate the means to convert keyboard strokes & study Japanese. Of course I am joking (J).
The point? Someone might have read this far & still rightly ask. We appreciate your suggestion from the courtesy & common sense with which it is
offered, & hope that you are not too disappointed when some people do not follow suit (to use a phrase that may have meaning only to card players).
It may take hold more consistently if it is posted as a part of the new members blurb, & somewhere visible on the message section of the website. The
suggestion of categories, with maybe other names, like Off (Topic) has been offered here before. The question of what is on/off topic is much harder
to determine than what is practical in the physical garden & what is theoretical in the lifestyle. (NOT to propose F-Farm (commercial scale),
G-Garden (personal scale), W-Way of living, or a dichotomy of P-Physical/S-Spiritual, so that members can share membership with only those most like
them.) However, self-management of many writers by code is limited to how closely they all read each other's key to codes.
Peace, always perceptible somewhere,
Stephen Inniss wrote:
> A couple of practical suggestions for the group to consider:ADVERTISEMENT
> 1) When quoting large chunks of text, why not attach them to the files
> section of the website, and reserve the posts for comments? In the case
> of references to One Straw Revolution, what about merely referring to
> the existing text, since it is already there and available? Some people
> may still be getting clogged mailboxes.
> 2) What about a common system of labeling? Theory and practice are two
> sides of the same indivisible coin, but perhaps some of the more
> practical minded members of the group would like to know ahead of time
> which of the posts they might like to skip. Members could preface a new
> topic with a ìPî for practical and a ìTî for theoretical. If these tags
> were at the beginning of the topic line, then a quick sort on the topics
> would allow readers to see which are the juiciest bits (depending on
> whether they are looking for gathering and gardening tips or whether
> they want to discuss politics, religion, and philosophy). If somebody
> objects to two-valued systems (on philosophical grounds, of course!), we
> could add another category or two. My suggestion would be "O", for
> "other" -- something the writer would like to say, but which has little
> or no connection to Fukuoka's work.
> P.S. I wonder what a tally of our recent posts would look like if the
> labels I'm suggesting were used?
> Between the idea and the reality
> Between the notion and the act
> Falls the shadow
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
- Tim Peters wrote:
> ....is this like asking a redwood to stand in your postage-stampHello Tim,
> without shading your lettuce?
Could be. This is a little like Fukuoka's seed scatterings. Some things
grow, some don't. With ideas, it's even more complicated, since if
something does sprout up it isn't necessarily what you thought you
I'm assuming you're referring to the proposals, not the commentary. Do
you mean asking people to post articles to the website instead of
quoting them entire, or do you mean the idea of labeling posts by type,
> I'm assuming you're referring to the proposals, not the commentary. DoHi Stephen,
> you mean asking people to post articles to the website instead of
> quoting them entire, or do you mean the idea of labeling posts by type,
> or both?
I was thinking of everything amoung us,.... including the tremendous
variation in web skills, program powers, and the very giant wholistic nature
of this 'agriculture'.
I for one was forced to learn this computer stuff about one year ago... and
it has been a slow process from zero to what I know now.... I am still
ignorant of how to do some of what you folk say ...for instance, posting to
the website. What is simple for you computer Hercules is hard for us
computer Charlie Brown's.
if you could do up a simple 'how-to' for every procedure for all the basic
computer scenerio's out there ....or someone to help a person do it the
preffered way, that might help.
It sounds though like some are to busy to even check their email often.
...if you think this group is bad, MAN !!! ...you should have tried some of
the other groups I joined for a bit in my learning process! ...Talk about
having a land-slide off of Mt Everest!!! ...
For those who are having trouble getting more in their box than they can
handle perhaps the best thing for them is to just go to the website and go
thru the latest postings, bookmarking or otherwise keeping what they want,
leaving the rest, ...and not have the postings come in the mail to them.
- Thank you Tim and Napi for your kind words on this thread. I had to
chuckle when I read Tim's second post, which reminded me that the same
diversity that makes this little group resilient and interestng also
inhibits any attempts to 'tidy up'.
For anyone who is interested, posting files is fairly straightforward
once you get to the starting point. I just finished adding a file and
then removing it again as an experiment. You go to the group's website:
Click on the "files" link at the left, click on the "add a file" option
that appears on the following page, and follow the instructions.
Naturally, you need to give your password to add a file. There is a
"files help" option that explains what to do as well or better than I
I noticed when I tried this that we have used about 10% of our available
space. I also found that I can delete my own contributions, but not
(naturally enough) other peoples'. Since there is no moderator, that
means we will have to use some restraint and consideration and delete
files once they have served their purpose. In the long run, even with
the best will in the world, the files section will fill up, since
sometimes people will enter the group, post files, and then lose
interest and leave the group without remembering to "clean up".
As for labeling posts, I'm going to try that idea myself over the next
little while to see if it fits. It might or might not be a good idea,
and it might or might not catch on (by my count, that leaves at least
four possible results).
Tim Peters wrote: [in part]
> I was thinking of everything amoung us,.... including the tremendous
> variation in web skills, program powers, and the very giant wholistic
> nature of this 'agriculture'.
> if you could do up a simple 'how-to' for every procedure for all the
> basic computer scenerio's out there ....or someone to help a person do
> it the preffered way, that might help.
> It sounds though like some are to busy to even check their email
> ...if you think this group is bad, MAN !!! ...you should have tried
> some of the other groups I joined for a bit in my learning process!
> ...Talk about having a land-slide off of Mt Everest!!! ...
> Tim ...