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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Shizen Noho - Natural Farming

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  • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
    ... all what i knows is that most of France was recovered with oak trees inhabited by wild boars that have been fell avidly by the romans to built their
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 1, 2003
      >
      > Dear Jamie (or anyone else in France who knows),
      > What is the indigenous, local native bushland around your home in
      > southern France.

      all what i knows is that most of France was recovered with oak trees
      inhabited by wild boars that have been fell avidly by the romans to built
      their efficient ships .
      but it was allready inhabited by celtic farmers

      in the caves of paleolithic time there is painting of many big mammals that
      became extinct , wholly rhinos and others, but no plants have been drawn i
      believe . but it was may be because of the glaciation when most of france
      was steppes like .
      I have been stricken by the forest in coastal British colombia where trees
      are growing even on the tiniest rocks , island broken off from the rocky
      seashore , because half of my family is from britanny (the west coast of
      France ) where the climate is very similar to here rainy and mild
      temperatures but almost no trees left and certainly not close to the shores
      ( same style of vegetation than ireland if you have a mental picture of
      it ).
      what happenned ? it is only when i moved here that i realise that it might
      not have been allways like that . In europe peoples have forgoten .
      I lived in the moutain range the pyrennees between france and spain that
      is called the wild frontier. for european standard it looks wild but those
      mountains have been grazed intenselly by domestic animals and forests cuts
      for so long that not that much of the possible flora of the past is left .
      Again it is only when i came here i realised what wild mean and happy about
      the abondance of edibles plants still available here because maintained and
      encouraged by native peoples not affected by the neolithic virus .
      i was into harvesting wilds in the pyrennees but retrospectivelly i see how
      poor it was.
      Peoples who have lost contact with the wild ( and not that many places are
      left to be experienced in the world and what is left is the poorest , the
      best have been taken by the invaders ) lost also the faith in the fertility
      capacity of the land .

      jean-claude
    • jamie
      Hello Jason, you ask: Dear Jamie (or anyone else in France who knows), What is the indigenous, local native bushland around your home in southern France.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 1, 2003
        Hello Jason, you ask: "Dear Jamie (or anyone else in France who knows), What
        is the indigenous, local native bushland around your home in southern
        France."
        Right now it is the 'garrigue'; which is to say only the plants that have
        adapted to drought on calcareous soil (mostly rock) through modified leaves
        (generally spines)- Spanish Broom, Scotch Broom (Gorse), kermes oak (a waist
        height very spiny leafed oak), and even the holm oak is known as
        holly-leafed oak - and by storing essential oils - lavender, rosemary,
        thyme...it is a most painful place to try and walk through, which is
        probably why it has survived the predations of the herds of sheep and goats
        that was, for hundreds of years, how the slopes and hills were used.

        However, except for two herds in and around the Talairan valley (where I
        live) goat herding is practically extinct and where the land has been left
        undisturbed juniper and other preforest plants appear, followed by pines.
        The pines are a disaster for the area as they burn all too easily - some
        friends just lost several hectares of a hillside overlooking their property
        when builders set a fire and decided to leave for the day! I have even seen
        a fire take hold in winter, when a careless viticulter burnt the sides of
        his fields (I'm still not exactly sure why they bother considering the
        amount of herbicides they use on their fields).

        What should be in place is a continuous climax hardwood forest of holm oak
        and box (yes, the same box used for parterre gardens which grows slowly to
        many metres in height) and like all such forests support the greatest
        biodiversity beneath their canopy - and, of course, help to not only bring
        rains but present a massive surface area to take condensation advantage of
        the damp air off the mediterranean. But the Romans in their ordering order,
        their ruthless instrumentalism, cleared this forest to smelt iron, to clear
        parcels of land to give to their legions and to herd their goats.

        Although vineyards surround Souscayrous, so too does garrigue and pine
        forest, but, as the hills rise at the southern end of the valley, so do the
        oak/box forests and I like to look to these distant hills and imagine them
        approaching ever closer to Souscayrous - I have my eye on the pine wood
        opposite and the occasional scattered oaks on its edge, because soon I'm
        going to start testing the interesting fact that oaks germinate well in a
        good covering of pine needles.

        Hope this helps

        Jamie
        Souscayrous
      • animaphile
        ... knows), What ... southern ... Yes, i ve read about Garrigue as one in meditteranean-type ecosystems of the world reading - California, S.W. & some S. Oz,
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 1, 2003
          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "jamie" <jamie@t...> wrote:
          > Hello Jason, you ask: "Dear Jamie (or anyone else in France who
          knows), What
          > is the indigenous, local native bushland around your home in
          southern
          > France."
          > Right now it is the 'garrigue';

          Yes, i've read about Garrigue as one in meditteranean-type
          ecosystems of the world reading - California, S.W. & some S. Oz, S.
          Africa, other parts of the meditteranean, etc. there are some
          similarities of climate and plant life forms amongst them all, but
          this is very generalised similarities, and not necessarily species
          or genuses, maybe plant families.
          ...

          > What should be in place is a continuous climax hardwood forest of
          holm oak and box (yes, the same box used for parterre gardens which
          grows slowly to many metres in height) and like all such forests
          support the greatest biodiversity beneath their canopy - and, of
          course, help to not only bring rains but present a massive surface
          area to take condensation advantage of the damp air off the
          mediterranean. But the Romans in their ordering order, their
          ruthless instrumentalism, cleared this forest to smelt iron, to clear
          parcels of land to give to their legions and to herd their goats.

          > Although vineyards surround Souscayrous, so too does garrigue and
          pine forest, but, as the hills rise at the southern end of the
          valley, so do the oak/box forests and I like to look to these
          distant hills and imagine them approaching ever closer to
          Souscayrous - I have my eye on the pine wood opposite and the
          occasional scattered oaks on its edge, because soon I'm going to
          start testing the interesting fact that oaks germinate well in a
          > good covering of pine needles.
          >
          > Hope this helps
          > Jamie
          > Souscayrous

          Yes thanks very much,
          this helps my focus on your subject a lot.
          This does give me some feeling which from the other side of the
          world is necessarily vague and uncertain and if and until i live
          there i will remind myself to keep it that vague way. The story of
          your place is like the many has-been-heading-towards-desert stories.
          But Garrigue is better than sand desert of the middle east, i
          guess?, some way for you to be thankful, i guess?!
          What processable edibles or edibles occur in the Box forests
          biodiversity in other places nearby and in other times - history?

          Jason Stewart
          Animaphile
        • animaphile
          ... context & ... oeuvre, you ... Indigs and ... In the context of your my thread which was initiated considering your Nature or Farming divisive initiated
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 1, 2003
            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "jamie" <jamie@t...> wrote:
            > Hello Jason you write: "Indig' Oz peoples did or do in the Oz
            context &
            > history exactly what
            > Fukuoka Masanobu did or does in the Japanese context & history."
            >
            > Whilst I recognise that this fulfils your entire "Oz Indigs"
            oeuvre, you
            > seem to have forgotten to make the connection implied: why are Oz
            Indigs and
            > Fukuoka doing the same thing?
            >
            > Jamie
            > Souscayrous

            In the context of your my thread which was initiated considering
            your "Nature or Farming" divisive initiated thread, i wrote this to
            mean that Oz Indig' people's, in their various languages, cultures &
            societies at many various places and times,

            do all the *sustainable* components of what the English language
            usage of the word farming is, as does Fukuoka as an individual, and
            simultaneously participate as enlgihtened, spontaneous natural
            (shizen hito) humans within the whole, full diversity of nature
            without there being one piece of empirical 'fact' or W.E. scientific
            or any evidence (Stephen Iniss pls note) of any domination, or
            degradation. Jamie you are quite in agreement with me when you say
            that Fukuoka pointed the way, he specifically said this about his
            own not reaching the destination in "The Road back to Nature", he
            deserves more credit than he gives himself, as is common custom for
            Nihonjin - Japanese people in that he did the best and probably
            better than ever could be forseen as the best in the *context* of
            Japan socially and whole-of-nature-lly. i for example am very
            fortunate to have life on land which is so pricelessly intensely
            valuable as it's very little degraded since it & 'God's' keepers had
            it maintained as the Garden of Oz Eden, Oz Indig' people were/are
            all Buddha's and they lived/live in the Garden of Eden. The 'Wizards
            of Oz'. (yeah!)

            In Oz nowadays, after many years of extreme racist prejudice
            generally some people such as in the ecological sciences, the most
            leading ecologists in relations with Indig' people's and in
            international ecology, are saying that Oz Indig' people's
            ameliorated ("subdued" from Bible words) non-human nature forces
            such as vast fire from lightning strikes, by using those same
            natural forces at smaller space scales to maintain the same non-
            human nature lifeforms in more abundance and in more varied and
            diverse landscapes etc. eg. protecting fire sensitive Rainforests
            with all their foods, animals, massive plant diversity... from
            distribution reduction by lightning fires, by lighting smaller fires
            and burning the surrounding fire-adapted bushland in mosaic patterns
            like a checkerboard to prevent any major lightning fires from
            reaching the fire sensitive rainforest. eg.2 Particularly Women on
            the plains country carefully digging tubers out from the ground with
            highly crafted hardened digging sticks, deliberately aerating the
            soil, replacing the growing points of the tubers (like growing
            carrot tops in cotton wool that many W.E. did when young) into the
            soil and spreading more widely the more plant-human mutually
            favourable tubers.

            Actually meaning working within the processes of non-human nature
            and the rates of change of non-human nature to increase the
            abundance, evolution of varieties & species and protect some species
            sensitive to global changes in climate and changes in the old W.E.
            four basic elements of fire, air, water and earth.

            Love to all,
            Jason Stewart
            Animaphile
          • Beatrice Gilboa
            ... Jason, middle east is not only sand desert, the third north of Israel is also a kind of garrigue even with higher pine trees in somespot. There are quite
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 1, 2003
              jason wrote to Jamie:

              >> But Garrigue is better than sand desert of the middle east, i guess?, some way for you to be thankful, i guess?!

              Jason, middle east is not only sand desert, the third north of Israel is also a kind of garrigue even with higher pine trees in somespot.
              There are quite relatively natural rich valley.
              Liban is even greener I guess with there cedar tree (that you see on there flag).
              Only Jordan, saudi arabia are mostly desert land.
              Along the coast of Israel where I live, the 3 months of the winter are naturally quiet green and with many colors of nice diversity of flowers.
              Now all this green is burnt but among that we can see other plants much more resistant to the hot wether.
              Half south of the country is desert, but rocky dersert more than sand desert. It's certainly not the best place to cultivate,<BG> but yet I was amazed to see how many creatures are adapted to this severe environement.

              Best wishes to all of you
              Beatrice
              Udim, Israel

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