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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Digest Number 404

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  • Wendy
    Dear Larry, We had connected before about me trying to figure out contact info. etc. of Mr. Fukuoka and I think about a New Zealand connection. I have a lot
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 13, 2003
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      Dear Larry,
      We had connected before about me trying to figure out contact info. etc. of
      Mr. Fukuoka and I think about a New Zealand connection. I have a lot going
      on with family health issues and so I will be unsubscribing again and just
      visting the website when I have time. Might you keep my email address and
      if you hear of anything, send me an email at terra_amore8@... ???

      please let me know. I understand if you don't have time for that.

      take care all,
      hoping for peace...
      Wendy Breiby
      Martha's Vineyard, MA

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 12:23 PM
      Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Digest Number 404

      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > There are 4 messages in this issue.
      > Topics in this digest:
      > 1. Petition
      > From: tsering@...
      > 2. Fukuoka and the art of dieing !
      > From: "Steve Walpole" <stevewalpole@...>
      > 3. Re: Fukuoka and the art of dieing !
      > From: jbmc@...
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry"
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 01:28:47 +0100
      > From: tsering@...
      > Subject: Petition
      > http://www.amnistiapornigeria.org
      > or
      > http://www.amnistiaporsafiya.org
      > Please save the life of this woman! She'll be executed after one month in
      > Nigeria because she gave birth to a baby after her divorce. In Amnistia
      > Internacional webpage, you can write your surname in "Nombre", your name
      > in "Apellidos", your city in "Provincia" and your country in "Pais".
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:51:54 +1100
      > From: "Steve Walpole" <stevewalpole@...>
      > Subject: Fukuoka and the art of dieing !
      > So Fukuoka gave us an insight into his understanding of how one can use
      > natural farming to perfect the human being.
      > "Giving up your ego is the shortest way to unification with nature."
      > Fukuoka.
      > He talked about becoming the rice plant, not just observing its nature!
      > When I read the words of Fukuoka and try to apply them, something rings
      > in my heart. Being economical in our action and sustainable action are
      > concepts, but Fukuoka appears to come from space rather than a thing.
      > Remember when he talked about letting the crops go, so he could observe
      > they survive and the result was death of most of his crops. Well I have
      > tried to live this experience too.
      > The last year or so, I have continued in my endeavours to incorporate his
      > initial findings and simply do almost nothing. It has been an amazing
      > discovery, in what has died and what has continued to live in my ecosystem
      > ie the ego ! Now this has been not easy as I have alot of "crops in my
      > garden". I am a "father", "husband", "small business owner", "sports
      > etc Therefore my endeavour was to dscover what would happen if allowed
      > "crops of the mind to die" to live without a carer persa.
      > I personally thought that this was the most econimical lesson Fukuoka
      > on to the reader. I have found that this path of letting go, has helped my
      > awareness, as the focus has been on space rather than action. For too long
      > action has dominated my life. Or should I say the anxiety underlying my
      > action.
      > What I have discovered within myself is simply an anxiety that is present
      > alot of the time. This anxiety has a desire and that desire is " to do
      > things". I know this sounds crude, yet I have found that this anxiety, has
      > little regard for economy, nature, sustainability or space. It just
      > "to do things".
      > In my opinion, know one can say with certainty that Fukuoka's treatise on
      > natural farming is a metaphor. Nor can one truly answer that it is a
      > paractise or philosophy. Most certaiinly we will struggle to prove that it
      > leads to the perfection of humanity!
      > BUT, I do know that it creates space in one life and breathing deep
      > of air feels good.
      > So now I am left with the awareness that I like "to do things" alot. I am
      > also aware that I have attachment to "my crops". That I still dont like
      > "weeds".
      > Thanks for listening,
      > Steve.
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > Message: 3
      > Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 06:15:24 -0800
      > From: jbmc@...
      > Subject: Re: Fukuoka and the art of dieing !
      > Mr. Walpole reported Mr. Fukuoka as writing:
      > > "Giving up your ego is the shortest way to unification with nature".
      > * * * * * * *
      > Profoundly true!, Mr. Walpole. Unfortunately, however,
      > Mr. Fukuoka failed to realize that "giving up the ego", that is,
      > overcoming the condition of dualism, - far from being a metaphy-
      > sical phenomenon - is, in fact, a *physical* process, more speci-
      > fically a neurological one, which is inexorably dependent on diet.
      > Mr. Fukuoka fatally "assumed" that "the knowledge
      > acquired in ancient times of using fire and salt was humanity's na-
      > tural destiny", and it is on the quicksand of this fatal assumptioin
      > that His tension of re-unification with Nature collapses.
      > Regards,
      > jb
      > Mirabile-caruso.
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:23:01 -0800
      > From: "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry" <instinct@...>
      > > Mr. Catry wrote:
      > >
      > > > Instinctive regulation of eating works at his most efficient with
      > > > undenatured foods ( as we evolved with them for most of our evolution)
      > >
      > > * * * * * * *
      > >
      > > I hope You will excuse my ignorance, Mr. Catry,
      > > but if i were to eat "instinctively" unadultereted foods, i would
      > > end up eating *exclusively* juicy-sweet fruits. I cannot possi-
      > > bly think of anything else. But You are stating also that we
      > > Human Beings have, prior to the last ten thousands years, a
      > > five-million-years long meat-eating evolutive background.
      > >
      > > I am confused! Where does my fruits-eating
      > > instinct come from? And how can i have possibly lost the
      > > instinct of my five-million-years long meat-eating heritage?
      > >
      > > Am i to consider myself a pervert ?
      > >
      > >
      > thanks for asking this question !.
      > I am afraid we don't understand the same way the word instinct .
      > the way your sentence have been written demonstrate this to me .
      > you wrote <if i were to do that experience ( eating instinctivelly
      > unenatured foods) i would ..... >
      > then you add< i can't possibly think ....
      > When i am eating instinctivelly ( and it is an ongoing proposition ) i
      > in the present moment and don't think ,i do choose one food among the
      > available to me at that precise time following my sense of smell and taste
      > That is a primal experience that by pass the cortex .
      > The experience of eating instinctivelly can be made easelly if one present
      > oneself blind folded to a choice of differents foods as they will be
      > presented in nature to us, whole undenatured for the most part ( and big
      > mammal meats as bone marrow and brain is available to an hominid on the
      > left over carcasses killed by carnivorous in the state of mature half
      > meats ).
      > Also from the experience of thousands of peoples who have experience
      > instinctive eating none had end up eating exclusivelly sweets juicy fruits
      > .That is a fact .Tho quite a few have not been able to go beyond their
      > vegetarian decision and stayed away from meats as long their body stores
      > allowed them to .( B12 deficiency arise after years of deprivation ...)
      > Masanobu wrote:
      > < animals are born with an instinctive ability to distinguish
      > between what they can and cannot eat , and so are able to partake fully
      > nature's plentiful stores.
      > In man however ,the stage of infancy during wich he feeds instinctivelly
      > short.>
      > So he aknowlege the instinctive ability of animals to regulate their food
      > intake thru an innate wisdom and deny it to humans because they didn't
      > pursue on the experience of practicing it .
      > what is the fundamental difference with animals ? ( i will come back to
      > question in other posts )
      > for that inborn ability to be confirmed by experience babies need to be
      > breast fed on cue ( and most of us have not even that ) then introduce to
      > foods in their undenatured state and let to choose , from their own
      > genetically memorised wisdom, to respond to their present meatabolic
      > state .
      > Peoples who eat instinctivelly discover that taste and smell are an ever
      > changing experience .what is tasting very good can taste bland or even
      > distastfull from one day to another and even from one mouthfull to the
      > .
      > Those differents experiences with the same foods are dependant on the
      > metabolic state of the moment and so our nutrients specific needs of the
      > moment.
      > what is left for us to do without that practical experience of
      > of our instinctive drive .?
      > we are left in the situation where a tree have been pruned
      > The peoples who put themselves in the position of doing that experience
      > decide to trust fully "their instinct " without no more guidelines
      > discovered that it was in the long term leading to unbalanced food intake
      > the reason is that the context in which our instintive wisdom establish it
      > self is not natural anymore .( that is the aera that natural farming CAN
      > adress).
      > that context have many aspects :
      > 1- fruits especially have been bred over centuries to become "easy" to the
      > instinctive barrier ( loss of sharp change of taste when metabolic needs
      > fulfilled ) because they have been for the most part continued to be eaten
      > in their raw state .the consequence of that to modern instinctive eater
      > even more true with modernly bred varieties is overconsumption of fruits .
      > 2-the avalability of differents categories of foods ( fruits, seeds ,
      > leaves , flowers , animals flesh and bodies etc...) as our hominids
      > experienced in their wild environment have been changed thru domestication
      > In the tropical forests that shelter our closer relatives fruits are
      > available to very agile climbers ,
      > In the savannha that nourished our hominids ancestors or even closer
      > hominids relatives ( now disapeared) fruits are rare , but tubers and
      > over of carnivorous animals are the nutrients dense foods avalable to us
      > quantities .
      > 3- the neolithic revolution have brought humanity to switch quite abruptly
      > ( in evolutionary terms ) from a high protein and fat diets ( bone marrow
      > and brain are very fatty foods ) to a high carbonhydrate with the
      > introduction of grains and pulses .
      > The metabolic disturbances that ensue are starting to be recognised by
      > modern science ( insuline resistance , cardiovascular health status ...)
      > this upset glycemic yoyo lead to addiction to sweets in an endless
      > cycle ( the same way than tilling bring the need for tilling , fertilisers
      > etc....)
      > Paleo ancestors and hunter gartherers who still live by the old paradigme
      > ( high meats and low carbohydrate intake ) have been and are healthier
      > the agriculturists .
      > More the food is available less the instintive drive toward it need to be
      > strong . strongly sweets foods are very attractive because they are rare
      > difficult to obtain in our natural environment ( honey and fruits ) .so
      > of the
      > regulation happens because of this rather that the taste and smell barrier
      > for meats who play a big role in regulating the intake .
      > so that is where your "fruit eating instinct" come from .
      > If you were to put aside evrything that you know about foods (
      > discriminating knowdledge ) and play the game of instinctive choice of
      > moment You will be very surprised of your choices .
      > Blinding the eyes is a good way to bypass a lot of the preconceived ideas
      > about foods and their taste.
      > you will not be necessarelly able to give a name to the foods you smell
      > that are very
      > "familiar" to you .
      > I did personally the experience of having smelled and tasted something
      > sweetly delicious and attractive that i discovered afterward was an onion
      > ( and not a walla walla type but a pungeant one) and having smelled a
      > grapefruit without being able to recognise it ( everybody "knows" the
      > of a grapefruit ).
      > masanobu p 253 of natural way of farming ,classifie the 4 major types of
      > diets .
      > 1the indulgent diet
      > 2the nutritional diet ( based on science )
      > 3the diet of principal
      > 4the non discriminating diet
      > the instinctive eating framework is an open door to the last one .( there
      > no limitation of what can be food apart of being in its natural state )
      > preconceived ideas about foods need to be discarded.foods are chosen in
      > present moment .
      > The instinctive eating framework is also not a guaranteed opening to stage
      > to the dismay of many of its followers.
      > jean-claude
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
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