Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [fukuoka_farming] (unknown)

Expand Messages
  • GLORIA BAIKAUSKAS
    Not me. Care to do an impromptu recap? Gloria [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 13, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Not me. Care to do an impromptu recap?

      Gloria


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bargyla Rateaver
      I had never heard of this. Tell me more. Who did it? etc etc thanks so much for mentioning something I would not otherwise have heard of ... -- Bargyla
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 16, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        I had never heard of this. Tell me more. Who did it? etc etc thanks so much for mentioning something I would not otherwise have heard of

        Robert Monie wrote:

        > Thank you, "Emilia" for the leads to natural farms in Montreal and England. By the way, do you see any place in natural farming for greenhouses, hoop tunnels, cloches and other transparent or translucent shell protection against temperature and bad weather (for example, hailstorms)? Viewing the Eden Project at Cornwall, England--a massive group of geodesic domes covering simulations of the Earth's major biomes--brought this to mind.
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

        --

        Bargyla Rateaver
        http://home.earthlink.net/~brateaver
      • Robert Monie
        REPLY: You can get an overview of the Eden Project at www.eden-project.co.uk/ The project began when Tim Smit decided to restore the old Victorian Heligan
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 16, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          REPLY:
          You can get an overview of the Eden Project at www.eden-project.co.uk/
          The project began when Tim Smit decided to restore the old Victorian Heligan Gardens at Cornwell, England. He published two books on these efforts, "The Lost Gardens of Heligan," and "The Heligan Vegetable Book" (both available from Amazon.com). In the second of these, he describes some of the old British varieties he has been able to get growing again. Pretty soon, he began to want to do much more than just bring a Victorian Garden (however fabled and wonderful)--he wanted to display in one spot of land the entire array of the world's biomes, under a giant complex of greenhouses.
          Tim found an architect, Nicholas Grimshaw, who was willing to do this by using Bucky Fuller's geodesic dome technology on a grand scale. I have no idea if Smit will finally get all the world's biomes in one place, but if he does, I am sure that Grimshaw can cover the biomes with his updated version of Fuller's domes and "tensegrity" structures. Already there are several in place including a "Mediterranean Biome" and a "Humid Tropical Biome." None of this may have much to do with natural farming, but it does have to do with plant life and elegant technology. You know, Fuller actually designed a dome that could cover Manhattan, and it probably could have been built if anybody with enough money had wanted to build it. The techo-brat in me gets excited about such things, and I apologize for being intrusive with this. The ecologist in me has no idea of whether such a thing SHOULD be built or what unforseen damage it might do, but look at the documented damage that conventional buildings have done to the environment! Anyway, if anybody wants to read more about the Eden Project in Corwall (there is another unrelated American project by the same name, also on the Web), they can purchase Tim Smit's latest "The Book of Eden" at the Eden Project website, www.eden-project.co.uk/
          Now if only we could talk Tim Smit into funding a few experimental natural farms somewhere, with or without the greenhouse covers! Anybody want to try?
          Bargyla Rateaver <brateaver@...> wrote: I had never heard of this. Tell me more. Who did it? etc etc thanks so much for mentioning something I would not otherwise have heard of

          Robert Monie wrote:

          > Thank you, "Emilia" for the leads to natural farms in Montreal and England. By the way, do you see any place in natural farming for greenhouses, hoop tunnels, cloches and other transparent or translucent shell protection against temperature and bad weather (for example, hailstorms)? Viewing the Eden Project at Cornwall, England--a massive group of geodesic domes covering simulations of the Earth's major biomes--brought this to mind.
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts!
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          --

          Bargyla Rateaver
          http://home.earthlink.net/~brateaver



          Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          EPLY:


          ---------------------------------
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts!

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • GLORIA BAIKAUSKAS
          One of the things about Fukuoka s approach that has worried me before is that this is such an arid area unlike where he is in Japan. It is necessary to amend
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 19, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            One of the things about Fukuoka's approach that has worried me before is that this is such an arid area unlike where he is in Japan. It is necessary to amend the soil in some fashion to assist water retention to keep the plants alive. I facilitate this somewhat by using native varieties as much as possible. However I would be severely limited in vegetables if I did that with them.

            Does anyone know if Fukuoka has addressed this? We have discussed the adaptability of Fukuoka's work in its truest form and whether it would work in all climates. The premise is sound, so I would imagine that slight adaptions would not harm it. I am willing, however, to experiment with Fukuoka's technique without amending the soil to see if it will make the difference. What say you all?

            Souscayrous......why not radishes? Particularly if you need to break up the soil somewhat with the clay content daikon radishes might do the trick. At Seeds of Change in New Mexico, US, the man who began the project there used daikon radishes to break up the soil which previously could not hardly be tilled. He planted the radishes,but he did not harvest them. He left them in the ground and planted the next year's crop right over them. In this way in the third year he harvested a wonderful crop of daikon radishes.....and the soil was then good for anything he wished to plant there. I thought it was an ingenious idea, although it did require patience. But it does retain the no-till method of natural farming, does it not?

            Gloria
            Texas
            USA


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Waldrop
            Regarding your shortage of moisture for your compost, consider adding your household s wash water to the pile. As to additional vegetables for your climate, I
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 19, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Regarding your shortage of moisture for your compost, consider adding
              your household's wash water to the pile.

              As to additional vegetables for your climate, I suggest arugula, pak
              choi, collard greens, salad burnett (a perennial salad plant) and a
              wide variety of herbs. Also, sunflowers (seed is edible and is an oil
              source, plus the flowers provide beauty).

              Our long term project is to convert our property to a forest garden,
              and I am trying to learn more of the Fukuoka method to see how it
              could help us. There are two dead elm trees on the property which
              have recently fallen over in some weather. We are using parts of the
              trunks, together with some other firewood, as the edges of our beds,
              and have generally made use of all of the wood of these two trees on
              the property as part of our design. Can't have a forest without
              rotting wood, it seems to me.

              For your 1000 square meter area, if it will eventually be part of your
              food producing system, planting green manures on it that will decay
              back into the same ground would be a way of raising its fertility.

              Robert Waldrop, OKC
              http://www.bettertimesinfo.org

              -----Original Message-----
              From: souscayrous <souscayrous@...>
              >Unfortunately, having no water to hand at the site, I am relying on
              >rainfall alone to wet the brushwood to Jean Pain's specifications and
              >I am still waiting for significant rainfall. Until rain arrives I am
              >leaving the shredded wood and bushes under some builders plastic I
              >had from a construction job, hoping to retain the moisture and
              >provide the humid environment conducive for the bacteria and mold to
              >breakdown the wood into humus. I uncover the mound when rain
              >threatens and recover when the sun or wind return. While the sun is
              >still low in the sky (we're at 43 degrees North) I doubt the
              >bacteria/mold will fry beneath the plastic.
              >My intention will be to use the compost, which Jean Pain says should
              >take roughly four months to be ready, on raised beds a la Emilia
              >Hazelip. While Jean Pain suggests lying a mulch of pine needles on
              >top of his compost on top of the earth, I will be using straw
              >instead. While there are plenty of pine needles to be found locally
              >coniferous litter actually works to sterilise the soil and although
              >Pain is aware of this and recommends taking the pine needles off at
              >the end of the growing season its seems more work than is necessary,
              >especially when straw breaks down so well and adds the bacterial
              >richness required by vegetable crops.
              >But I am a neophyte, what do I know? I'll let you know just how much
              >of our vegetable needs are met by my first growing attempts (for two
              >adults, a five year old and a fourteen month old).
              >Does anyone have recommendations for vegetable seeds for our warm
              >temperate/mediterranean climate - beyond tomatoes, peppers,
              >cucumbers, lettuce, onions, potatoes we're open to any veg and I
              >really don't know what our climate and our clay rich soil will
              >support, especially in its first year: aubergine, melons, courgette,
              >beans, peas??
              >Finally, any recommendations of what to do with the rest of the field
              >(only 1000sqm)? Cover crop, green mulch, harvestable crop...all
              >suggestions gratefully received.
            • Jim Bones
              Excellent Robert, Hip! Hip! Mr. Fukuoka repeatedly said, do not think too much. Just do it (make seed balls and try natural farming) and nature will teach you
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 12, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Excellent Robert, Hip! Hip!

                Mr. Fukuoka repeatedly said, do not think too much. Just do it (make
                seed balls and try natural farming) and nature will teach you what you
                need to know. It is impossible to reduce nothing less than everything
                to a formula.

                Sincerely,

                Jim Bones
              • GLORIA BAIKAUSKAS
                Isn t that a large part of the problem? We don t listen to nature anymore. Humans I think think they determine nature somehow. People used to listen to
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 12, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Isn't that a large part of the problem? We don't listen to nature anymore. Humans I think think they determine nature somehow.

                  People used to listen to nature before they had electronic means to tell them what it was saying ( to a certain extent anyway). Now they take a hint from nature and turn it into a nightmare.

                  Gloria
                  Texas


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
                  ... That is what the neolithic mind forgot , more we adventured into farming crops more we got stuck in thinking that it require lot of effort to eat enough.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > Out here - our communities and our people - we were in heaven. It was
                    > good. We had our medicines; we had more medicines going than the
                    > Whitefella. They found out we had more tucker, more vegetables
                    > growing than the Whitefella. But they, in their wilful way, wanted
                    > more LAND.

                    That is what the neolithic mind forgot , more we adventured into farming
                    crops more we got stuck in thinking that it require lot of effort to eat
                    enough. AN it is interesting to note that since then , it never had been
                    enough.
                    that is what happens when your body is physiologically undernourished for
                    having chosen and eaten the wrongs foods , you want more and more .
                    by having worked hard at selecting plants to makes them easy to eat (
                    interesting by the way , that our plant breeder here is christian ) we lost
                    their power to feed us proprelly.

                    the trend of making foods easier and easier to be produced ( is it really
                    easier?) and eaten is going so far nowadays that we reached the summum in
                    taste blandness and unnourishing quality .
                    too bad that Masanobu didn't push farther the reflexion on what makes us
                    distinguish a crop from a weed


                    about the christian mindset ,
                    I told i think my hurt of seeing what was my church ( a beautifull trail
                    bordered with filberts leading to an abandonned orchard that fed me for
                    years ) becoming an ugly christian church surrounded by a parking lot
                    with few landscaping bushes in concrete pots . i suppose that is what they
                    got from christ advice to not worry about what enter the mouth .

                    jean-claude
                  • animaphile
                    ... It was good. We had our medicines; we had more medicines going than the Whitefella. They found out we had more tucker, more vegetables growing than the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 1, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude
                      Catry" <instinct@s...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Out here - our communities and our people - we were in heaven.
                      It was good. We had our medicines; we had more medicines going than
                      the Whitefella. They found out we had more tucker, more vegetables
                      growing than the Whitefella. But they, in their wilful way, wanted
                      more LAND.
                      >
                      > That is what the neolithic mind forgot , more we adventured into
                      farming crops more we got stuck in thinking that it require lot of
                      effort to eat enough. AN it is interesting to note that since then ,
                      it never had been enough.
                      > that is what happens when your body is physiologically
                      undernourished for having chosen and eaten the wrongs foods , you
                      want more and more .
                      > by having worked hard at selecting plants to makes them easy to
                      eat ( interesting by the way , that our plant breeder here is
                      christian ) we lost their power to feed us proprelly.
                      >
                      > the trend of making foods easier and easier to be produced ( is it
                      really easier?) and eaten is going so far nowadays that we reached
                      the summum in taste blandness and unnourishing quality .
                      > too bad that Masanobu didn't push farther the reflexion on what
                      makes us distinguish a crop from a weed
                      >
                      >
                      > about the christian mindset ,
                      > I told i think my hurt of seeing what was my church ( a
                      beautifull trail bordered with filberts leading to an abandonned
                      orchard that fed me for years ) becoming an ugly christian church
                      surrounded by a parking lot with few landscaping bushes in concrete
                      pots . i suppose that is what they got from christ advice to not
                      worry about what enter the mouth .
                      >
                      > jean-claude

                      Fake-Christian is what you described above, as compared honest
                      Christians. honest Christian's God is in their heart as many i know
                      have said to me, not in the church buildings. And God is never been
                      honestly described as a being in a material place called heaven,
                      honestly described christian god is everywhere, this is what is
                      really in the Jewish old testament and the christian new testament,
                      It was the translation into the only a few hundred years old
                      language of modern English which is a Military-Heirarchy-
                      Institutional-Materialism-Reductionistic Society Language that
                      reduced the meaning. Language and culture co-evolve and reflect each
                      other. This English language as compared to Japanese & to Indig' Oz
                      & to my non-verbal wholistic mind is what i've been commenting about
                      and struggling with on this. We all make the future and to the
                      extent that i speak and mentally process seriously in English i
                      participate in making the language a better future and the W.E.
                      culture with it!

                      There is a difference between fake or false christians whose loyalty
                      is first to their society and its heirarchy even if this is
                      conditioned in their growing up and now as adults subconscious in
                      their psychology and secondly they may believe in Jesus, who
                      specifically disavowed social heirarchies, pharisees, kings,
                      powerful and went to be with the most down to earth, most
                      materialistically poor, sickest, most depraved, most dispossessed,
                      most disenfranchised and so on such as lepers, prostitutes, in
                      jail ... to get his learning and to give love. Compared to honest
                      Christians who disavow heirarchy, power, domination, materialism and
                      so on. The outrage at the lies of hierarchical, materialism-
                      dominated false-Christians and their submission to human
                      authorities - 'false gods' is one my motivations, this is one reason
                      why so many of these so called churches no nothing of Fukuoka and
                      how resonant his practice of food economy and philosophy is with
                      honest Christianity. There are some minority W.E. (eg. from british
                      isles) non-heirarchical, non-materialist, non-institutional
                      Christian faiths, they remain quiet, personal and practical in their
                      expressions rather then public, publishing in media and doctrinal.
                      They are like Buddhism in this and many practices and understandings
                      of what is honest simple human-nature and that they don't advertise
                      themselves publically, and i will not here advertise their groups
                      names publically.

                      Thanks and Love,
                      Jason
                      Animaphile
                    • Sergio Montinola
                      Dear Ingrid, Your concern of the church is purely a material one. It never was the intention. A spiritual life is for eternity, material life is temporary.
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 2, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Ingrid,

                        Your concern of the church is purely a material one. It never was the intention. A spiritual life is for eternity, material life is temporary.

                        Keep study and research,
                        Sergio J. Montinola




                        Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry <instinct@...> wrote:

                        > Out here - our communities and our people - we were in heaven. It was
                        > good. We had our medicines; we had more medicines going than the
                        > Whitefella. They found out we had more tucker, more vegetables
                        > growing than the Whitefella. But they, in their wilful way, wanted
                        > more LAND.

                        That is what the neolithic mind forgot , more we adventured into farming
                        crops more we got stuck in thinking that it require lot of effort to eat
                        enough. AN it is interesting to note that since then , it never had been
                        enough.
                        that is what happens when your body is physiologically undernourished for
                        having chosen and eaten the wrongs foods , you want more and more .
                        by having worked hard at selecting plants to makes them easy to eat (
                        interesting by the way , that our plant breeder here is christian ) we lost
                        their power to feed us proprelly.

                        the trend of making foods easier and easier to be produced ( is it really
                        easier?) and eaten is going so far nowadays that we reached the summum in
                        taste blandness and unnourishing quality .
                        too bad that Masanobu didn't push farther the reflexion on what makes us
                        distinguish a crop from a weed


                        about the christian mindset ,
                        I told i think my hurt of seeing what was my church ( a beautifull trail
                        bordered with filberts leading to an abandonned orchard that fed me for
                        years ) becoming an ugly christian church surrounded by a parking lot
                        with few landscaping bushes in concrete pots . i suppose that is what they
                        got from christ advice to not worry about what enter the mouth .

                        jean-claude


                        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                        ---------------------------------
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • animaphile
                        ... the intention. A spiritual life is for eternity, material life is temporary. ... Thanks Sergio, you DO NOT seem like the many false Christians i personally
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 2, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sergio Montinola
                          <sjmosprey2001@y...> wrote:
                          > Dear Ingrid,
                          >
                          > Your concern of the church is purely a material one. It never was
                          the intention. A spiritual life is for eternity, material life is
                          temporary.
                          >
                          > Sergio J. Montinola


                          Thanks Sergio,
                          you DO NOT seem like the many false Christians i personally know in
                          Oz. Of course, spirit and matter are indivisible, as you know. If
                          matter can be conceived of alone then it must be only as a
                          subordinate concept of spirit. Spirit is a superordinate concept that
                          is inclusive of matter, of course.

                          Beauty Sergio and all,
                          Jason Stewart
                          Anima-phile


                          > Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry <instinct@s...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Out here - our communities and our people - we were in heaven. It
                          was
                          > > good. We had our medicines; we had more medicines going than the
                          > > Whitefella. They found out we had more tucker, more vegetables
                          > > growing than the Whitefella. But they, in their wilful way, wanted
                          > > more LAND.
                          >
                          > That is what the neolithic mind forgot , more we adventured into
                          farming crops more we got stuck in thinking that it require lot of
                          effort to eat enough. AN it is interesting to note that since then ,
                          it never had been enough.
                          > that is what happens when your body is physiologically
                          undernourished for having chosen and eaten the wrongs foods , you
                          want more and more .
                          > by having worked hard at selecting plants to makes them easy to eat
                          ( interesting by the way , that our plant breeder here is christian )
                          we lost their power to feed us proprelly.
                          >
                          > the trend of making foods easier and easier to be produced ( is it
                          really easier?) and eaten is going so far nowadays that we reached
                          the summum in taste blandness and unnourishing quality .
                          > too bad that Masanobu didn't push farther the reflexion on what
                          makes us distinguish a crop from a weed
                          >
                          >
                          > about the christian mindset , I told i think my hurt of seeing what
                          was my church ( a beautifull trail bordered with filberts leading to
                          an abandonned orchard that fed me for years ) becoming an ugly
                          christian church surrounded by a parking lot with few landscaping
                          bushes in concrete pots . i suppose that is what they got from christ
                          advice to not worry about what enter the mouth .
                          >
                          > jean-claude
                        • Sergio Montinola
                          Dear Ingrid, The spirit and soul of man is what makes us different from all things and beings in this world. While the spirit is subordinate in matter in
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jul 3, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Ingrid,

                            The spirit and soul of man is what makes us different from all things and beings in this world.

                            While the spirit is "subordinate" in matter in our life, it will continue to live after life. This is what we believe as a Christian, followers of Jesus Christ and as a Catholic Christian we believe in the sanctity of the Holy Roman Catholic Church of Jesus Christ as the moral guiardian and an infallible appointed Pope when it comes to "faith and morals".

                            This gives meaning and purpose to our "material" life on earth. The existence of heaven and hell is the final and only purpose of the way we live our life on earth. Our spirit (soul) will continue to live for eternity whether in heaven or in hell as our material life will determine and merit. This is all what life means to us.

                            Thanks for the response.
                            Sergio

                            animaphile <animaphile@...> wrote:
                            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sergio Montinola
                            <sjmosprey2001@y...> wrote:
                            > Dear Ingrid,
                            >
                            > Your concern of the church is purely a material one. It never was
                            the intention. A spiritual life is for eternity, material life is
                            temporary.
                            >
                            > Sergio J. Montinola


                            Thanks Sergio,
                            you DO NOT seem like the many false Christians i personally know in
                            Oz. Of course, spirit and matter are indivisible, as you know. If
                            matter can be conceived of alone then it must be only as a
                            subordinate concept of spirit. Spirit is a superordinate concept that
                            is inclusive of matter, of course.

                            Beauty Sergio and all,
                            Jason Stewart
                            Anima-phile


                            > Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry <instinct@s...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Out here - our communities and our people - we were in heaven. It
                            was
                            > > good. We had our medicines; we had more medicines going than the
                            > > Whitefella. They found out we had more tucker, more vegetables
                            > > growing than the Whitefella. But they, in their wilful way, wanted
                            > > more LAND.
                            >
                            > That is what the neolithic mind forgot , more we adventured into
                            farming crops more we got stuck in thinking that it require lot of
                            effort to eat enough. AN it is interesting to note that since then ,
                            it never had been enough.
                            > that is what happens when your body is physiologically
                            undernourished for having chosen and eaten the wrongs foods , you
                            want more and more .
                            > by having worked hard at selecting plants to makes them easy to eat
                            ( interesting by the way , that our plant breeder here is christian )
                            we lost their power to feed us proprelly.
                            >
                            > the trend of making foods easier and easier to be produced ( is it
                            really easier?) and eaten is going so far nowadays that we reached
                            the summum in taste blandness and unnourishing quality .
                            > too bad that Masanobu didn't push farther the reflexion on what
                            makes us distinguish a crop from a weed
                            >
                            >
                            > about the christian mindset , I told i think my hurt of seeing what
                            was my church ( a beautifull trail bordered with filberts leading to
                            an abandonned orchard that fed me for years ) becoming an ugly
                            christian church surrounded by a parking lot with few landscaping
                            bushes in concrete pots . i suppose that is what they got from christ
                            advice to not worry about what enter the mouth .
                            >
                            > jean-claude



                            Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                            ---------------------------------
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.