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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch

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  • Nandan Palaparambil
    Dear Rajuji/Devan, I was starting a fresh cultivation  since the cycle is not complete now like winter crop, summer crop. I am little hesitant to put the
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 3 11:58 PM
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      Dear Rajuji/Devan,

      I was starting a fresh cultivation  since the cycle is not complete now like winter crop, summer crop. I am little hesitant to put the seeds before and trample the seedlings during harvest....may take more time to get adjusted with all these methods.

      But probably I didn't completely follow the natural cycle. In some part of the field I had done watering and there weeds were there even in the summer. Probably this was a first mistake, typically in summer all the grasses completely dried and starting a cultivation with first rain is always easy, since there are no weeds present and you can establish a crop/legume before the weeds starts sprouting. I missed this window due to some other work, so trying to patch it up.

      Another thing is that even though green mulch looks to be more in volume, after drying it gets reduced a lot. 

      Some where in one straw revolution, it says Fukuoka san used to check the germination of seeds, if germination was found to be bad, then he used to put more seed balls later. These are all very practical difficulties any farmer will face, and book gives lot of solutions, if you read it carefully.


      Regards,
      Nandan
      http://farming-experiments.blogspot.in/


      ________________________________
      From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:02 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch



       
      Dear friends,
      Please see this photo of Fukuoka farm
      https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cnzq8fjMfcD0l-e5FIk5LNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

      Raju

      On 7/2/13, Devan Carpenter <devanc@...> wrote:
      > Hello,
      >
      > If I understand correctly one of the reasons Fukuoka broadcast the seed 2
      > weeks before harvesting was so that they would have time to germinate and
      > become strong enough to break through the straw once it was layed out.
      >
      > I may be incorrect though, I am not speaking from experience, just from
      > reading.
      >
      > -Devan
      > On Jul 2, 2013 2:44 AM, "Nandan Palaparambil" <p_k_nandanan@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> Hi Ruthie,
      >>
      >> I just checked the chapter 'Look at this grain' and it describes, '
      >>
      >> "The winter grain will be cut around 20th of May. About 2 weeks before
      >> the
      >> crop has fully matured, I broadcast rice seed over rye and barley. After
      >> the winter grain has been harvested and the grains threshed, I spread the
      >> rye and barley straw over the field"
      >>
      >> By the time, the rye and barley straw is spread, the rice would have
      >> already germinated. I think, the same happens with rice. So clearly it is
      >> not that the straw is decomposed, before the seeds germinate. Also in
      >> farming, it is difficult to make such conditions, since if there is
      >> sufficient moisture seeds will start germinating, whether straw is
      >> decomposed or not and if there is heavy straw on the top, they won't come
      >> out.
      >>
      >> Regards,
      >>
      >> Nandan
      >>
      >> ________________________________
      >> From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
      >> To: fukuoka farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      >> Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:36 AM
      >> Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch
      >>
      >>
      >> Greetings Nandan,
      >> To answer your question I am guessing it is because the straw has enough
      >> time to rot a little before the seedlings are ready to sprout...
      >> Fukuoka threw the seedballs for the next crop just before harvesting his
      >> grain and putting back the straw. In my little experimental natural plot
      >> I
      >> noticed the seedballs I threw did not necessarily sprout when I expected
      >> them to, but skipped one planting season.
      >> I suppose Fukuoka showed a field at cruising speed already, and not a
      >> newly-created one like you and I and some other members here have.
      >> When I was little we were constantly reminded by our teachers, "If at
      >> first
      >> you don't succeed try and try again".
      >> Happy farming to all.
      >>
      >> RUTHIE
      >>
      >> 2013/7/1 Nandan <p_k_nandanan@...>
      >>
      >> > **
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > Hi,
      >> >
      >> > Recently I am finding that some times, the mulch at the surface becomes
      >> > too thick and planting through it is difficult. If the mulch is too
      >> thick,
      >> > seeds does not push through it and number of plants per unit area
      >> > becomes
      >> > small and it becomes a problem in uniformly establishing the crop.
      >> >
      >> > Today I was cutting one area of the farm where I had grown cowpea in
      >> > the
      >> > summer and now cowpea and grass are growing, after the rains. I wanted
      >> > to
      >> > grow sunhemp and take up some grain crops in the next season, so I cut
      >> that
      >> > area using scythe. My scythe cutting is not perfect so it takes more
      >> time.
      >> > After cutting I found that mulch is too much and there is no way,
      >> > sunhemp
      >> > seeds will come through it. So finally I moved most of the mulch to one
      >> > side and then put sunhemp seeds, still there was enough mulch to cover
      >> the
      >> > seeds.
      >> >
      >> > I am wondering, how Fukuoka san could return all the straw back to the
      >> > field without affecting the germination of wheat/barley?
      >> >
      >> > Regards,
      >> > Nandan
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

      --
      *Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
      rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.
      http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
      http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Raju Titus
      Dear friends, Seed ball failure is common problem. Perfect mulching of straw or green mulch over seed balls is required. I am facing this problem due to
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 4 2:50 AM
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        Dear friends,
        Seed ball failure is common problem. Perfect mulching of straw or
        green mulch over seed balls is required. I am facing this problem due
        to rats,squarel and insects.
        In the absence of straw or green mulch i dibble seed balls for protection.
        thanks
        Raju

        On 7/4/13, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
        > Dear Rajuji/Devan,
        >
        > I was starting a fresh cultivation  since the cycle is not complete now like
        > winter crop, summer crop. I am little hesitant to put the seeds before and
        > trample the seedlings during harvest....may take more time to get adjusted
        > with all these methods.
        >
        > But probably I didn't completely follow the natural cycle. In some part of
        > the field I had done watering and there weeds were there even in the summer.
        > Probably this was a first mistake, typically in summer all the grasses
        > completely dried and starting a cultivation with first rain is always easy,
        > since there are no weeds present and you can establish a crop/legume before
        > the weeds starts sprouting. I missed this window due to some other work, so
        > trying to patch it up.
        >
        > Another thing is that even though green mulch looks to be more in volume,
        > after drying it gets reduced a lot.
        >
        > Some where in one straw revolution, it says Fukuoka san used to check the
        > germination of seeds, if germination was found to be bad, then he used to
        > put more seed balls later. These are all very practical difficulties any
        > farmer will face, and book gives lot of solutions, if you read it
        > carefully.
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        > Nandan
        > http://farming-experiments.blogspot.in/
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
        > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:02 AM
        > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear friends,
        > Please see this photo of Fukuoka farm
        > https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cnzq8fjMfcD0l-e5FIk5LNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
        >
        > Raju
        >
        > On 7/2/13, Devan Carpenter <devanc@...> wrote:
        >> Hello,
        >>
        >> If I understand correctly one of the reasons Fukuoka broadcast the seed 2
        >> weeks before harvesting was so that they would have time to germinate and
        >> become strong enough to break through the straw once it was layed out.
        >>
        >> I may be incorrect though, I am not speaking from experience, just from
        >> reading.
        >>
        >> -Devan
        >> On Jul 2, 2013 2:44 AM, "Nandan Palaparambil" <p_k_nandanan@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>
        >>> **
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Hi Ruthie,
        >>>
        >>> I just checked the chapter 'Look at this grain' and it describes, '
        >>>
        >>> "The winter grain will be cut around 20th of May. About 2 weeks before
        >>> the
        >>> crop has fully matured, I broadcast rice seed over rye and barley. After
        >>> the winter grain has been harvested and the grains threshed, I spread
        >>> the
        >>> rye and barley straw over the field"
        >>>
        >>> By the time, the rye and barley straw is spread, the rice would have
        >>> already germinated. I think, the same happens with rice. So clearly it
        >>> is
        >>> not that the straw is decomposed, before the seeds germinate. Also in
        >>> farming, it is difficult to make such conditions, since if there is
        >>> sufficient moisture seeds will start germinating, whether straw is
        >>> decomposed or not and if there is heavy straw on the top, they won't
        >>> come
        >>> out.
        >>>
        >>> Regards,
        >>>
        >>> Nandan
        >>>
        >>> ________________________________
        >>> From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
        >>> To: fukuoka farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
        >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:36 AM
        >>> Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Greetings Nandan,
        >>> To answer your question I am guessing it is because the straw has enough
        >>> time to rot a little before the seedlings are ready to sprout...
        >>> Fukuoka threw the seedballs for the next crop just before harvesting his
        >>> grain and putting back the straw. In my little experimental natural plot
        >>> I
        >>> noticed the seedballs I threw did not necessarily sprout when I expected
        >>> them to, but skipped one planting season.
        >>> I suppose Fukuoka showed a field at cruising speed already, and not a
        >>> newly-created one like you and I and some other members here have.
        >>> When I was little we were constantly reminded by our teachers, "If at
        >>> first
        >>> you don't succeed try and try again".
        >>> Happy farming to all.
        >>>
        >>> RUTHIE
        >>>
        >>> 2013/7/1 Nandan <p_k_nandanan@...>
        >>>
        >>> > **
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> > Hi,
        >>> >
        >>> > Recently I am finding that some times, the mulch at the surface
        >>> > becomes
        >>> > too thick and planting through it is difficult. If the mulch is too
        >>> thick,
        >>> > seeds does not push through it and number of plants per unit area
        >>> > becomes
        >>> > small and it becomes a problem in uniformly establishing the crop.
        >>> >
        >>> > Today I was cutting one area of the farm where I had grown cowpea in
        >>> > the
        >>> > summer and now cowpea and grass are growing, after the rains. I wanted
        >>> > to
        >>> > grow sunhemp and take up some grain crops in the next season, so I cut
        >>> that
        >>> > area using scythe. My scythe cutting is not perfect so it takes more
        >>> time.
        >>> > After cutting I found that mulch is too much and there is no way,
        >>> > sunhemp
        >>> > seeds will come through it. So finally I moved most of the mulch to
        >>> > one
        >>> > side and then put sunhemp seeds, still there was enough mulch to cover
        >>> the
        >>> > seeds.
        >>> >
        >>> > I am wondering, how Fukuoka san could return all the straw back to the
        >>> > field without affecting the germination of wheat/barley?
        >>> >
        >>> > Regards,
        >>> > Nandan
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>> >
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >>> ------------------------------------
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >
        > --
        > *Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
        > rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.
        > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
        > http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        --
        *Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
        rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.
        http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
        http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
      • Ruthie Aquino
        Very fine observation Nandan. So it remains a mystery to me. I truly thought it was the start of decompostition that allowed the seedlings to rise between the
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 4 5:33 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Very fine observation Nandan.
          So it remains a mystery to me.
          I truly thought it was the start of decompostition that allowed the
          seedlings to rise between the "obstacles".
          It is then a balancing act, acquired through years of timing experience or
          years of making your grain more vigorous, that allows the rice to grow
          above the straw?

          best
          RUTHIE


          2013/7/2 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>

          > **
          >
          >
          > Hi Ruthie,
          >
          > I just checked the chapter 'Look at this grain' and it describes, '
          >
          > "The winter grain will be cut around 20th of May. About 2 weeks before the
          > crop has fully matured, I broadcast rice seed over rye and barley. After
          > the winter grain has been harvested and the grains threshed, I spread the
          > rye and barley straw over the field"
          >
          > By the time, the rye and barley straw is spread, the rice would have
          > already germinated. I think, the same happens with rice. So clearly it is
          > not that the straw is decomposed, before the seeds germinate. Also in
          > farming, it is difficult to make such conditions, since if there is
          > sufficient moisture seeds will start germinating, whether straw is
          > decomposed or not and if there is heavy straw on the top, they won't come
          > out.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Nandan
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
          > To: fukuoka farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:36 AM
          >
          > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch
          >
          >
          > Greetings Nandan,
          > To answer your question I am guessing it is because the straw has enough
          > time to rot a little before the seedlings are ready to sprout...
          > Fukuoka threw the seedballs for the next crop just before harvesting his
          > grain and putting back the straw. In my little experimental natural plot I
          > noticed the seedballs I threw did not necessarily sprout when I expected
          > them to, but skipped one planting season.
          > I suppose Fukuoka showed a field at cruising speed already, and not a
          > newly-created one like you and I and some other members here have.
          > When I was little we were constantly reminded by our teachers, "If at first
          > you don't succeed try and try again".
          > Happy farming to all.
          >
          > RUTHIE
          >
          > 2013/7/1 Nandan <p_k_nandanan@...>
          >
          > > **
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi,
          > >
          > > Recently I am finding that some times, the mulch at the surface becomes
          > > too thick and planting through it is difficult. If the mulch is too
          > thick,
          > > seeds does not push through it and number of plants per unit area becomes
          > > small and it becomes a problem in uniformly establishing the crop.
          > >
          > > Today I was cutting one area of the farm where I had grown cowpea in the
          > > summer and now cowpea and grass are growing, after the rains. I wanted to
          > > grow sunhemp and take up some grain crops in the next season, so I cut
          > that
          > > area using scythe. My scythe cutting is not perfect so it takes more
          > time.
          > > After cutting I found that mulch is too much and there is no way, sunhemp
          > > seeds will come through it. So finally I moved most of the mulch to one
          > > side and then put sunhemp seeds, still there was enough mulch to cover
          > the
          > > seeds.
          > >
          > > I am wondering, how Fukuoka san could return all the straw back to the
          > > field without affecting the germination of wheat/barley?
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > > Nandan
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nandan Palaparambil
          Hi Ruthie, It looks each one has to experiment and find their own working mechanism. But in general, if there is break in the cycle, then we need a permanent
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 4 10:04 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Ruthie,

            It looks each one has to experiment and find their own working mechanism. But in general, if there is break in the cycle, then we need a permanent legume ground cover, so during the break, ground cover will be growing and starting grain cultivation there may be easy. Again I can say it depends, since Rajuji was able to take grain cultivation under natural cover and my assumption is that it is because his land is very fertile and lot of mulch and hence no strong grass grows there.

            Even if you don't want to return all the straw, it is not an issue, when there is a break in the cycle, you can use the remaining straw to mulch above the ground cover.

            I think a fast growing, vigorous grain is always useful, since they compete well. 

            Regards,
            Nandan


            ________________________________
            From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
            To: fukuoka farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2013 6:03 PM
            Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch


            Very fine observation Nandan.
            So it remains a mystery to me.
            I truly thought it was the start of decompostition that allowed the
            seedlings to rise between the "obstacles".
            It is then a balancing act, acquired through years of timing experience or
            years of making your grain more vigorous, that allows the rice to grow
            above the straw?

            best
            RUTHIE


            2013/7/2 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>

            > **
            >
            >
            > Hi Ruthie,
            >
            > I just checked the chapter 'Look at this grain' and it describes, '
            >
            > "The winter grain will be cut around 20th of May. About 2 weeks before the
            > crop has fully matured, I broadcast rice seed over rye and barley. After
            > the winter grain has been harvested and the grains threshed, I spread the
            > rye and barley straw over the field"
            >
            > By the time, the rye and barley straw is spread, the rice would have
            > already germinated. I think, the same happens with rice. So clearly it is
            > not that the straw is decomposed, before the seeds germinate. Also in
            > farming, it is difficult to make such conditions, since if there is
            > sufficient moisture seeds will start germinating, whether straw is
            > decomposed or not and if there is heavy straw on the top, they won't come
            > out.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Nandan
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
            > To: fukuoka farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:36 AM
            >
            > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Handling mulch
            >
            >
            > Greetings Nandan,
            > To answer your question I am guessing it is because the straw has enough
            > time to rot a little before the seedlings are ready to sprout...
            > Fukuoka threw the seedballs for the next crop just before harvesting his
            > grain and putting back the straw. In my little experimental natural plot I
            > noticed the seedballs I threw did not necessarily sprout when I expected
            > them to, but skipped one planting season.
            > I suppose Fukuoka showed a field at cruising speed already, and not a
            > newly-created one like you and I and some other members here have.
            > When I was little we were constantly reminded by our teachers, "If at first
            > you don't succeed try and try again".
            > Happy farming to all.
            >
            > RUTHIE
            >
            > 2013/7/1 Nandan <p_k_nandanan@...>
            >
            > > **
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > Recently I am finding that some times, the mulch at the surface becomes
            > > too thick and planting through it is difficult. If the mulch is too
            > thick,
            > > seeds does not push through it and number of plants per unit area becomes
            > > small and it becomes a problem in uniformly establishing the crop.
            > >
            > > Today I was cutting one area of the farm where I had grown cowpea in the
            > > summer and now cowpea and grass are growing, after the rains. I wanted to
            > > grow sunhemp and take up some grain crops in the next season, so I cut
            > that
            > > area using scythe. My scythe cutting is not perfect so it takes more
            > time.
            > > After cutting I found that mulch is too much and there is no way, sunhemp
            > > seeds will come through it. So finally I moved most of the mulch to one
            > > side and then put sunhemp seeds, still there was enough mulch to cover
            > the
            > > seeds.
            > >
            > > I am wondering, how Fukuoka san could return all the straw back to the
            > > field without affecting the germination of wheat/barley?
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > Nandan
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >

            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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