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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself

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  • Sumant Joshi
    Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been associated with
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 17, 2013
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      Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years and I have a few comments to make.

      I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing or two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple practices as washing hands.

      But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.

      And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic is followed which does not contaminate ground water.

      There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to the village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic fault lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times indeed.



      Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


      Warm regards,

      Sumant Joshi
      Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



      >________________________________
      > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
      >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
      >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself
      >
      >
      >

      >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
      >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first
      >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
      >
      >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English and
      >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
      >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
      >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
      >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
      >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but they
      >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
      >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
      >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
      >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
      >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
      >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
      >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
      >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
      >were
      >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
      >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
      >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
      >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
      >open.
      >
      >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
      >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
      >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
      >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
      >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
      >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
      >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
      >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
      >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
      >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
      >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
      >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
      >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
      >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
      >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
      >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
      >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
      >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
      >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
      >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
      >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
      >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
      >it.
      >
      >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
      >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
      >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
      >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
      >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
      >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
      >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
      >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
      >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
      >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
      >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
      >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
      >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
      >those seeds
      >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
      >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
      >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
      >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
      >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
      >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
      >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
      >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
      >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because of
      >the good safe food it produces.
      >
      >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
      >
      >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
      ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
      >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
      >> in
      >> the first year itself.
      >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
      >>
      >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
      >>
      >> Raghava,
      >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
      >> +91 94489 23773.
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bobby Ray
      Greetings, I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they ate and drank what they drank ... except I bought the entire family
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 18, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings,

        I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they
        ate and drank what they drank ...
        except I bought the entire family 5gallon/20 liter jugs of water for 35
        rupees. We all drank that water.
        I went one step further when my host family's lady in charge got sick from
        arsenic poisoning, I got the
        family a Berkey water filter system with the add-on cartridges to deal with
        arsenic and heavy metals.
        She was very sick and I took over some of her duties in the kitchen which
        later she told me was totally
        unexpected. They never expected me to wash dishes and help wash clothes.

        I never considered Indians to be dirty people. Everywhere I saw running
        water I saw folks washing.
        Even in the railway stations where water was flowing in a stream there were
        always people washing.
        My concern was that people were washing in the water others were drinking.

        What I never saw was a naked adult bathing but I did see boys naked under
        corner street faucets.
        In China away from the cities driving down a road you would find naked
        folks bathing. I visited a government
        hospital in KGF and was impressed that ladies ward was neat and orderly but
        the bathing and latrine area was not.
        IN a Chinese provincial hospital where I did some nursing, you had men and
        women and children all together
        and there was zero privacy. In China families are expected to bathe,
        provide personal care and feed their family
        members. When you have a dozen in the same room that makes for zero
        privacy.

        In both rural
        China and India, you had to watch your step as folks defecated anywhere and
        in India even in government office
        courtyards. In some cultures folks carry a shovel but not in India. In
        India it is squat and run. Many times at night
        I would drive around a curve and find a person squatting bare butt on the
        road side.
        In China I was riding with a Chinese friend and
        we stopped at a bus terminal and there were signs indicating restrooms ...
        that was not always the case ... but
        my friend and half a dozen other men took about 3 steps away from the bus
        and pissed away as the rest of the
        bus load of passengers passed by close enough to bump them. In India on
        one bus trip to Chittour from KGF,
        our bus driver stopped the bus at a stop in town walked about 30 steps to a
        bridge over a creek on the cross
        street and pissed away into the water with zero concern about such things
        totally visible to all on that side of the bus.

        As for concerns about children dying from polluted water .. your comment
        reflects some that I heard in
        India ... why change things? What good would it do. A local politician
        took a totally different viewpoint as
        his concerns were like mine. He said, "Indians would rather have free
        color TVs and cell phones rather
        than safe drinking water for their children." I attended many funerals in
        India and I never ceased to be
        amazed at how many children died. In the KGF so many children died that
        some parents did not name the
        child till its first birthday. I did attend baby naming services. And
        lots of memorial services for deceased.

        Also I did visit a water treatment plant in KGF that was built by the
        British. It was at 100 years old. Some of the equipment was not working so
        the water bypassed the huge sediment
        sand filters. I noticed a phone booth there that had USA made equipment
        that was
        dated 1923. To be honest that really surprised me. It was a British style
        phone booth but with American
        equipment.

        I first got started doing sanitation training as I was part of the relief
        effort in China 2008 when the Sichuan Earthquake
        happened. Survivors were still being dug out of the rubble when I
        arrived. officially 79,000 people died with another
        20,000 still listed as missing even though their villages were totally
        buried in land slides. Water sanitation was a
        serious concern in the refugee camps. I was in China when the earthquake
        happened and since my friends knew that
        I had been involved with the relief effort in Los Angeles with the
        Northridge earthquake 1994, I was asked what they
        could do to help. #1 was clean water. #2 was flashlights as huge areas
        were without power and 10 MILLION were
        made homeless. Lots of folks got hurt going back to their damaged homes
        and fumbling and falling in the dark. It was the
        same in Northridge except many folks had working cars. In Sichuan vehicles
        were scarce in the rural areas. Even in
        the city the entire 6 months I was in China my #1 means of transpartation
        was a bicycle. I also used a bicycle in India,
        but we also had access to a Suzuki 1200cc microvan. I even taught my host
        how to drive and he was able to get a driver's
        license.

        I have been asked to return to India but my host when I was there has asked
        me to go to Cambodia to visit a group that
        teaches how to build long life low cost water filters. He would like to
        start a business making and selling them as a public
        service. I have made contact with two different groups that have two
        different ways to cheaply purify water. Where I was
        in KGF we only had power for a couple hours most days. That makes it more
        challenging to purify water. I am a fan of
        solar cooking and that is one way to heat water to kill pathogens. Filters
        remove them also. Most of south asia has problems
        with arsenic and heavy metals in the water supply. KGF because of the gold
        mining has even greater problems. Using
        Google earth you can see huge areas where mine tailings were dumped and
        even 60 years after the British quit gold mining -
        nothing grows in some of those areas. Why should anyone today care? Those
        folks have lived with that problem for
        almost two hundred years. Well I do care. It gives me good Karma in
        places where lots of bad Karma exists. Arsenic and
        other things have gotten into the food chain as well as the water. It is a
        serious health issue.

        Bobby Ray ... one who cares ... I believe we should feed the hungry, heal
        the sick, and clothe the naked.
        I make an attempt to do what I can. I am reminded that when I was in
        Chittour, we passed a poor man that had just been
        injured. He was using a dirty plastic bag to wipe up the blood ...
        another problem in India is the plastic bags blowing in the wind
        everywhere - in the old days paper could be burned for heat.
        I asked the driver to stop so we could help him ... He kept driving. So
        sad ... so few care. Not my caste, not my problem.
        Indians are so smart and intelligent ... it seems a shame to waste so much
        of that. 99% of the time I was treated very
        kindly by Indians. Twice, I did I have problems from the same Muslim
        man. On the far side of Karnataka going west, I also
        ran into problems with a Hindu militant that was concerned that I was
        visiting a local tribal group because they had invited me.
        He had me arrested and I was detained for many hours before I was
        released. I made it back to the tribal village and they
        hid me because they expected more trouble ... and they were right.



        On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens
        > and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been
        > associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years and
        > I have a few comments to make.
        >
        > I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go
        > into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing or
        > two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a
        > lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple
        > practices as washing hands.
        >
        > But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically
        > supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have
        > survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in
        > the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple
        > and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.
        >
        > And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt
        > prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic is
        > followed which does not contaminate ground water.
        >
        > There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the
        > British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has
        > changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to the
        > village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average
        > rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic fault
        > lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times indeed.
        >
        > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
        >
        > Warm regards,
        >
        > Sumant Joshi
        > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
        >
        > >________________________________
        > > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
        > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
        > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first
        > year itself
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
        > >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had
        > first
        > >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
        > >
        > >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English
        > and
        > >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
        > >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
        > >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
        > >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
        > >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but
        > they
        > >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
        > >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
        > >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
        > >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
        > >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
        > >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
        > >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
        > >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
        > >were
        > >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
        > >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
        > >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
        > >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
        > >open.
        > >
        > >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
        > >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
        > >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
        > >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
        > >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
        > >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
        > >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
        > >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
        > >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
        > >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
        > >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
        > >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
        > >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
        > >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
        > >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
        > >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
        > >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
        > >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
        > >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
        > >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
        > >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
        > >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
        > >it.
        > >
        > >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
        > >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
        > >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
        > >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
        > >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
        > >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
        > >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
        > >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
        > >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
        > >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
        > >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
        > >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
        > >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
        > >those seeds
        > >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
        > >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
        > >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
        > >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
        > >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
        > >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
        > >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
        > >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
        > >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because
        > of
        > >the good safe food it produces.
        > >
        > >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
        > >
        > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
        > ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
        > >
        > >> **
        >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
        > >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
        > >> in
        > >> the first year itself.
        > >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
        > >>
        > >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
        > >>
        > >> Raghava,
        > >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
        > >> +91 94489 23773.
        > >>
        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >>
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ruthie Aquino
        Dear Bobby Thanks for sharing. What a moving thing to discover there are modern-day people like you who work without judging those you try to help. Best
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 19, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Bobby
          Thanks for sharing.
          What a moving thing to discover there are modern-day people like you who
          work without judging those you try to help.
          Best regards,
          RUTHIE


          2013/4/18 Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>

          > **
          >
          >
          > Greetings,
          >
          > I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they
          > ate and drank what they drank ...
          > except I bought the entire family 5gallon/20 liter jugs of water for 35
          > rupees. We all drank that water.
          > I went one step further when my host family's lady in charge got sick from
          > arsenic poisoning, I got the
          > family a Berkey water filter system with the add-on cartridges to deal with
          > arsenic and heavy metals.
          > She was very sick and I took over some of her duties in the kitchen which
          > later she told me was totally
          > unexpected. They never expected me to wash dishes and help wash clothes.
          >
          > I never considered Indians to be dirty people. Everywhere I saw running
          > water I saw folks washing.
          > Even in the railway stations where water was flowing in a stream there were
          > always people washing.
          > My concern was that people were washing in the water others were drinking.
          >
          > What I never saw was a naked adult bathing but I did see boys naked under
          > corner street faucets.
          > In China away from the cities driving down a road you would find naked
          > folks bathing. I visited a government
          > hospital in KGF and was impressed that ladies ward was neat and orderly but
          > the bathing and latrine area was not.
          > IN a Chinese provincial hospital where I did some nursing, you had men and
          > women and children all together
          > and there was zero privacy. In China families are expected to bathe,
          > provide personal care and feed their family
          > members. When you have a dozen in the same room that makes for zero
          > privacy.
          >
          > In both rural
          > China and India, you had to watch your step as folks defecated anywhere and
          > in India even in government office
          > courtyards. In some cultures folks carry a shovel but not in India. In
          > India it is squat and run. Many times at night
          > I would drive around a curve and find a person squatting bare butt on the
          > road side.
          > In China I was riding with a Chinese friend and
          > we stopped at a bus terminal and there were signs indicating restrooms ...
          > that was not always the case ... but
          > my friend and half a dozen other men took about 3 steps away from the bus
          > and pissed away as the rest of the
          > bus load of passengers passed by close enough to bump them. In India on
          > one bus trip to Chittour from KGF,
          > our bus driver stopped the bus at a stop in town walked about 30 steps to a
          > bridge over a creek on the cross
          > street and pissed away into the water with zero concern about such things
          > totally visible to all on that side of the bus.
          >
          > As for concerns about children dying from polluted water .. your comment
          > reflects some that I heard in
          > India ... why change things? What good would it do. A local politician
          > took a totally different viewpoint as
          > his concerns were like mine. He said, "Indians would rather have free
          > color TVs and cell phones rather
          > than safe drinking water for their children." I attended many funerals in
          > India and I never ceased to be
          > amazed at how many children died. In the KGF so many children died that
          > some parents did not name the
          > child till its first birthday. I did attend baby naming services. And
          > lots of memorial services for deceased.
          >
          > Also I did visit a water treatment plant in KGF that was built by the
          > British. It was at 100 years old. Some of the equipment was not working so
          > the water bypassed the huge sediment
          > sand filters. I noticed a phone booth there that had USA made equipment
          > that was
          > dated 1923. To be honest that really surprised me. It was a British style
          > phone booth but with American
          > equipment.
          >
          > I first got started doing sanitation training as I was part of the relief
          > effort in China 2008 when the Sichuan Earthquake
          > happened. Survivors were still being dug out of the rubble when I
          > arrived. officially 79,000 people died with another
          > 20,000 still listed as missing even though their villages were totally
          > buried in land slides. Water sanitation was a
          > serious concern in the refugee camps. I was in China when the earthquake
          > happened and since my friends knew that
          > I had been involved with the relief effort in Los Angeles with the
          > Northridge earthquake 1994, I was asked what they
          > could do to help. #1 was clean water. #2 was flashlights as huge areas
          > were without power and 10 MILLION were
          > made homeless. Lots of folks got hurt going back to their damaged homes
          > and fumbling and falling in the dark. It was the
          > same in Northridge except many folks had working cars. In Sichuan vehicles
          > were scarce in the rural areas. Even in
          > the city the entire 6 months I was in China my #1 means of transpartation
          > was a bicycle. I also used a bicycle in India,
          > but we also had access to a Suzuki 1200cc microvan. I even taught my host
          > how to drive and he was able to get a driver's
          > license.
          >
          > I have been asked to return to India but my host when I was there has asked
          > me to go to Cambodia to visit a group that
          > teaches how to build long life low cost water filters. He would like to
          > start a business making and selling them as a public
          > service. I have made contact with two different groups that have two
          > different ways to cheaply purify water. Where I was
          > in KGF we only had power for a couple hours most days. That makes it more
          > challenging to purify water. I am a fan of
          > solar cooking and that is one way to heat water to kill pathogens. Filters
          > remove them also. Most of south asia has problems
          > with arsenic and heavy metals in the water supply. KGF because of the gold
          > mining has even greater problems. Using
          > Google earth you can see huge areas where mine tailings were dumped and
          > even 60 years after the British quit gold mining -
          > nothing grows in some of those areas. Why should anyone today care? Those
          > folks have lived with that problem for
          > almost two hundred years. Well I do care. It gives me good Karma in
          > places where lots of bad Karma exists. Arsenic and
          > other things have gotten into the food chain as well as the water. It is a
          > serious health issue.
          >
          > Bobby Ray ... one who cares ... I believe we should feed the hungry, heal
          > the sick, and clothe the naked.
          > I make an attempt to do what I can. I am reminded that when I was in
          > Chittour, we passed a poor man that had just been
          > injured. He was using a dirty plastic bag to wipe up the blood ...
          > another problem in India is the plastic bags blowing in the wind
          > everywhere - in the old days paper could be burned for heat.
          > I asked the driver to stop so we could help him ... He kept driving. So
          > sad ... so few care. Not my caste, not my problem.
          > Indians are so smart and intelligent ... it seems a shame to waste so much
          > of that. 99% of the time I was treated very
          > kindly by Indians. Twice, I did I have problems from the same Muslim
          > man. On the far side of Karnataka going west, I also
          > ran into problems with a Hindu militant that was concerned that I was
          > visiting a local tribal group because they had invited me.
          > He had me arrested and I was detained for many hours before I was
          > released. I made it back to the tribal village and they
          > hid me because they expected more trouble ... and they were right.
          >
          > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > **
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens
          > > and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been
          > > associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years
          > and
          > > I have a few comments to make.
          > >
          > > I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go
          > > into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing
          > or
          > > two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a
          > > lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple
          > > practices as washing hands.
          > >
          > > But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically
          > > supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have
          > > survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in
          > > the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple
          > > and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.
          > >
          > > And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt
          > > prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic
          > is
          > > followed which does not contaminate ground water.
          > >
          > > There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the
          > > British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has
          > > changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to
          > the
          > > village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average
          > > rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic
          > fault
          > > lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times
          > indeed.
          > >
          > > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
          > >
          > > Warm regards,
          > >
          > > Sumant Joshi
          > > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
          > >
          > > >________________________________
          > > > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
          > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
          > > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first
          > > year itself
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many
          > nights
          > > >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had
          > > first
          > > >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
          > > >
          > > >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English
          > > and
          > > >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
          > > >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and
          > he
          > > >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
          > > >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a
          > fence.
          > > >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but
          > > they
          > > >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden
          > got
          > > >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
          > > >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
          > > >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
          > > >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in
          > Bangalore
          > > >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
          > > >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
          > > >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
          > > >were
          > > >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
          > > >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
          > > >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air
          > encounter
          > > >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
          > > >open.
          > > >
          > > >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
          > > >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
          > > >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny
          > to
          > > >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
          > > >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet
          > and
          > > >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for
          > 6
          > > >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation -
          > health
          > > >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
          > > >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ...
          > but
          > > >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
          > > >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
          > > >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
          > > >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many
          > children
          > > >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with
          > digestive
          > > >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they
          > have
          > > >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
          > > >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
          > > >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
          > > >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
          > > >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
          > > >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
          > > >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
          > > >it.
          > > >
          > > >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find
          > was
          > > >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and
          > next
          > > >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who
          > helped
          > > >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
          > > >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in
          > soil
          > > >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.orgThese
          > > >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love
          > visiting
          > > >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
          > > >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
          > > >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was
          > my
          > > >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back
          > east
          > > >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer
          > heat
          > > >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash
          > and
          > > >those seeds
          > > >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
          > > >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less
          > than
          > > >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than
          > we
          > > >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
          > > >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
          > > >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
          > > >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
          > > >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
          > > >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because
          > > of
          > > >the good safe food it produces.
          > > >
          > > >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
          > > >
          > > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
          > > ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
          > > >
          > > >> **
          > >
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
          > > >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya
          > successfully
          > > >> in
          > > >> the first year itself.
          > > >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada
          > newspaper.
          > > >>
          > > >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
          > > >>
          > > >> Raghava,
          > > >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
          > > >> +91 94489 23773.
          > > >>
          > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >>
          > > >
          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Travellingatthespeedofthought
          Hey Natural Lovers, I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my experiences around growing papaya. I can t say enough good things
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 24, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hey Natural Lovers,

            I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my experiences around growing papaya.

            I can't say enough good things about papaya.  It gives you fruit in the first year and is quite easy to grow.  Papaya is super nutritious and is a great addition to anyones diet.

            I also grow papaya, but just for my own family, however last year I had such great production I was able to share with all my neighbors.  From one tree I got about 300 kgs of papaya.  Considering that a papaya only takes up about 2 square feet of land, it is highly productive.  In permaculture we refer to papaya as a great example of natures "stacking" or "vertical growing".  

            It is always hard to say exactly why things grow successfully, but I have one very simple, "natural" method I use for growing papaya.  Do you want to know what it is...

            Check out the photos of my papaya...

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1006082808/pic/list


            Zac


            ________________________________
            From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
            To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:41 PM
            Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself



            Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
            natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully in
            the first year itself.
            An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.


            http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
             
            Raghava,
            Davangere, Karnataka, India.
            +91 94489 23773.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ruthie Aquino
            hi there green papaya is cooked as a vegetable in a ginger broth with or without chicken in the Philippines , and one of its advantages when cooked with meat
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 25, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              hi there
              green papaya is cooked as a vegetable in a ginger broth with or without
              chicken in the Philippines , and one of its advantages when cooked with
              meat is that it is a natural meat tenderizer.
              green papaya is also shredded and pickled with condiments and some carrot
              rounds cut to look like flowers to decorate the jar.
              in areas with an abundance of coconut trees it is cooked as a curry in
              coconut milk.
              best
              RUTHIE


              2013/4/25 Travellingatthespeedofthought <zacworldwide@...>

              > **
              >
              >
              > Hey Natural Lovers,
              >
              > I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my
              > experiences around growing papaya.
              >
              > I can't say enough good things about papaya. It gives you fruit in the
              > first year and is quite easy to grow. Papaya is super nutritious and is a
              > great addition to anyones diet.
              >
              > I also grow papaya, but just for my own family, however last year I had
              > such great production I was able to share with all my neighbors. From one
              > tree I got about 300 kgs of papaya. Considering that a papaya only takes
              > up about 2 square feet of land, it is highly productive. In permaculture
              > we refer to papaya as a great example of natures "stacking" or "vertical
              > growing".
              >
              > It is always hard to say exactly why things grow successfully, but I have
              > one very simple, "natural" method I use for growing papaya. Do you want to
              > know what it is...
              >
              > Check out the photos of my papaya...
              >
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1006082808/pic/list
              >
              > Zac
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
              > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:41 PM
              > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year
              > itself
              >
              >
              >
              > Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
              > natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
              > in
              > the first year itself.
              > An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
              >
              > http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
              >
              > Raghava,
              > Davangere, Karnataka, India.
              > +91 94489 23773.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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