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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself

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  • Bobby Ray
    I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first year
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 17, 2013
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      I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
      we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first
      year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.

      We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English and
      he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
      every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
      started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
      they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
      At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but they
      were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
      eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
      had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
      not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
      and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
      and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
      get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
      ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
      were
      agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
      we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
      We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
      and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
      open.

      I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
      One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
      used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
      see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
      India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
      a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
      months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
      practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
      procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
      we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
      doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
      seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
      also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
      die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
      system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
      the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
      dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
      the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
      relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
      often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
      urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
      water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
      it.

      Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
      what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
      trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
      me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
      Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
      beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
      folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
      other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
      I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
      altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
      most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
      and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
      kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
      those seeds
      produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
      prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
      20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
      could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
      squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
      potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
      killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
      ... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
      healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because of
      the good safe food it produces.

      Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.


      On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
      <aikanthika@...>wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      >
      > Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
      > natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
      > in
      > the first year itself.
      > An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
      >
      > http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
      >
      > Raghava,
      > Davangere, Karnataka, India.
      > +91 94489 23773.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sumant Joshi
      Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been associated with
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 17, 2013
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        Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years and I have a few comments to make.

        I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing or two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple practices as washing hands.

        But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.

        And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic is followed which does not contaminate ground water.

        There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to the village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic fault lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times indeed.



        Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


        Warm regards,

        Sumant Joshi
        Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



        >________________________________
        > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
        >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
        >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself
        >
        >
        >

        >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
        >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first
        >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
        >
        >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English and
        >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
        >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
        >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
        >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
        >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but they
        >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
        >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
        >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
        >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
        >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
        >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
        >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
        >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
        >were
        >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
        >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
        >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
        >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
        >open.
        >
        >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
        >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
        >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
        >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
        >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
        >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
        >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
        >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
        >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
        >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
        >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
        >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
        >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
        >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
        >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
        >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
        >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
        >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
        >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
        >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
        >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
        >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
        >it.
        >
        >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
        >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
        >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
        >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
        >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
        >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
        >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
        >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
        >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
        >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
        >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
        >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
        >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
        >those seeds
        >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
        >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
        >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
        >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
        >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
        >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
        >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
        >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
        >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because of
        >the good safe food it produces.
        >
        >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
        >
        >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
        ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
        >
        >> **
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
        >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
        >> in
        >> the first year itself.
        >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
        >>
        >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
        >>
        >> Raghava,
        >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
        >> +91 94489 23773.
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bobby Ray
        Greetings, I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they ate and drank what they drank ... except I bought the entire family
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 18, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Greetings,

          I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they
          ate and drank what they drank ...
          except I bought the entire family 5gallon/20 liter jugs of water for 35
          rupees. We all drank that water.
          I went one step further when my host family's lady in charge got sick from
          arsenic poisoning, I got the
          family a Berkey water filter system with the add-on cartridges to deal with
          arsenic and heavy metals.
          She was very sick and I took over some of her duties in the kitchen which
          later she told me was totally
          unexpected. They never expected me to wash dishes and help wash clothes.

          I never considered Indians to be dirty people. Everywhere I saw running
          water I saw folks washing.
          Even in the railway stations where water was flowing in a stream there were
          always people washing.
          My concern was that people were washing in the water others were drinking.

          What I never saw was a naked adult bathing but I did see boys naked under
          corner street faucets.
          In China away from the cities driving down a road you would find naked
          folks bathing. I visited a government
          hospital in KGF and was impressed that ladies ward was neat and orderly but
          the bathing and latrine area was not.
          IN a Chinese provincial hospital where I did some nursing, you had men and
          women and children all together
          and there was zero privacy. In China families are expected to bathe,
          provide personal care and feed their family
          members. When you have a dozen in the same room that makes for zero
          privacy.

          In both rural
          China and India, you had to watch your step as folks defecated anywhere and
          in India even in government office
          courtyards. In some cultures folks carry a shovel but not in India. In
          India it is squat and run. Many times at night
          I would drive around a curve and find a person squatting bare butt on the
          road side.
          In China I was riding with a Chinese friend and
          we stopped at a bus terminal and there were signs indicating restrooms ...
          that was not always the case ... but
          my friend and half a dozen other men took about 3 steps away from the bus
          and pissed away as the rest of the
          bus load of passengers passed by close enough to bump them. In India on
          one bus trip to Chittour from KGF,
          our bus driver stopped the bus at a stop in town walked about 30 steps to a
          bridge over a creek on the cross
          street and pissed away into the water with zero concern about such things
          totally visible to all on that side of the bus.

          As for concerns about children dying from polluted water .. your comment
          reflects some that I heard in
          India ... why change things? What good would it do. A local politician
          took a totally different viewpoint as
          his concerns were like mine. He said, "Indians would rather have free
          color TVs and cell phones rather
          than safe drinking water for their children." I attended many funerals in
          India and I never ceased to be
          amazed at how many children died. In the KGF so many children died that
          some parents did not name the
          child till its first birthday. I did attend baby naming services. And
          lots of memorial services for deceased.

          Also I did visit a water treatment plant in KGF that was built by the
          British. It was at 100 years old. Some of the equipment was not working so
          the water bypassed the huge sediment
          sand filters. I noticed a phone booth there that had USA made equipment
          that was
          dated 1923. To be honest that really surprised me. It was a British style
          phone booth but with American
          equipment.

          I first got started doing sanitation training as I was part of the relief
          effort in China 2008 when the Sichuan Earthquake
          happened. Survivors were still being dug out of the rubble when I
          arrived. officially 79,000 people died with another
          20,000 still listed as missing even though their villages were totally
          buried in land slides. Water sanitation was a
          serious concern in the refugee camps. I was in China when the earthquake
          happened and since my friends knew that
          I had been involved with the relief effort in Los Angeles with the
          Northridge earthquake 1994, I was asked what they
          could do to help. #1 was clean water. #2 was flashlights as huge areas
          were without power and 10 MILLION were
          made homeless. Lots of folks got hurt going back to their damaged homes
          and fumbling and falling in the dark. It was the
          same in Northridge except many folks had working cars. In Sichuan vehicles
          were scarce in the rural areas. Even in
          the city the entire 6 months I was in China my #1 means of transpartation
          was a bicycle. I also used a bicycle in India,
          but we also had access to a Suzuki 1200cc microvan. I even taught my host
          how to drive and he was able to get a driver's
          license.

          I have been asked to return to India but my host when I was there has asked
          me to go to Cambodia to visit a group that
          teaches how to build long life low cost water filters. He would like to
          start a business making and selling them as a public
          service. I have made contact with two different groups that have two
          different ways to cheaply purify water. Where I was
          in KGF we only had power for a couple hours most days. That makes it more
          challenging to purify water. I am a fan of
          solar cooking and that is one way to heat water to kill pathogens. Filters
          remove them also. Most of south asia has problems
          with arsenic and heavy metals in the water supply. KGF because of the gold
          mining has even greater problems. Using
          Google earth you can see huge areas where mine tailings were dumped and
          even 60 years after the British quit gold mining -
          nothing grows in some of those areas. Why should anyone today care? Those
          folks have lived with that problem for
          almost two hundred years. Well I do care. It gives me good Karma in
          places where lots of bad Karma exists. Arsenic and
          other things have gotten into the food chain as well as the water. It is a
          serious health issue.

          Bobby Ray ... one who cares ... I believe we should feed the hungry, heal
          the sick, and clothe the naked.
          I make an attempt to do what I can. I am reminded that when I was in
          Chittour, we passed a poor man that had just been
          injured. He was using a dirty plastic bag to wipe up the blood ...
          another problem in India is the plastic bags blowing in the wind
          everywhere - in the old days paper could be burned for heat.
          I asked the driver to stop so we could help him ... He kept driving. So
          sad ... so few care. Not my caste, not my problem.
          Indians are so smart and intelligent ... it seems a shame to waste so much
          of that. 99% of the time I was treated very
          kindly by Indians. Twice, I did I have problems from the same Muslim
          man. On the far side of Karnataka going west, I also
          ran into problems with a Hindu militant that was concerned that I was
          visiting a local tribal group because they had invited me.
          He had me arrested and I was detained for many hours before I was
          released. I made it back to the tribal village and they
          hid me because they expected more trouble ... and they were right.



          On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens
          > and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been
          > associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years and
          > I have a few comments to make.
          >
          > I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go
          > into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing or
          > two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a
          > lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple
          > practices as washing hands.
          >
          > But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically
          > supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have
          > survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in
          > the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple
          > and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.
          >
          > And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt
          > prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic is
          > followed which does not contaminate ground water.
          >
          > There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the
          > British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has
          > changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to the
          > village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average
          > rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic fault
          > lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times indeed.
          >
          > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
          >
          > Warm regards,
          >
          > Sumant Joshi
          > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
          >
          > >________________________________
          > > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
          > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
          > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first
          > year itself
          >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
          > >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had
          > first
          > >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
          > >
          > >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English
          > and
          > >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
          > >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
          > >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
          > >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
          > >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but
          > they
          > >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
          > >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
          > >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
          > >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
          > >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
          > >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
          > >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
          > >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
          > >were
          > >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
          > >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
          > >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
          > >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
          > >open.
          > >
          > >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
          > >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
          > >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
          > >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
          > >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
          > >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
          > >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
          > >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
          > >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
          > >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
          > >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
          > >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
          > >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
          > >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
          > >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
          > >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
          > >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
          > >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
          > >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
          > >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
          > >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
          > >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
          > >it.
          > >
          > >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
          > >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
          > >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
          > >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
          > >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
          > >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
          > >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
          > >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
          > >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
          > >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
          > >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
          > >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
          > >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
          > >those seeds
          > >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
          > >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
          > >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
          > >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
          > >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
          > >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
          > >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
          > >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
          > >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because
          > of
          > >the good safe food it produces.
          > >
          > >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
          > >
          > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
          > ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
          > >
          > >> **
          >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
          > >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
          > >> in
          > >> the first year itself.
          > >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
          > >>
          > >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
          > >>
          > >> Raghava,
          > >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
          > >> +91 94489 23773.
          > >>
          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ruthie Aquino
          Dear Bobby Thanks for sharing. What a moving thing to discover there are modern-day people like you who work without judging those you try to help. Best
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 19, 2013
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            Dear Bobby
            Thanks for sharing.
            What a moving thing to discover there are modern-day people like you who
            work without judging those you try to help.
            Best regards,
            RUTHIE


            2013/4/18 Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>

            > **
            >
            >
            > Greetings,
            >
            > I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they
            > ate and drank what they drank ...
            > except I bought the entire family 5gallon/20 liter jugs of water for 35
            > rupees. We all drank that water.
            > I went one step further when my host family's lady in charge got sick from
            > arsenic poisoning, I got the
            > family a Berkey water filter system with the add-on cartridges to deal with
            > arsenic and heavy metals.
            > She was very sick and I took over some of her duties in the kitchen which
            > later she told me was totally
            > unexpected. They never expected me to wash dishes and help wash clothes.
            >
            > I never considered Indians to be dirty people. Everywhere I saw running
            > water I saw folks washing.
            > Even in the railway stations where water was flowing in a stream there were
            > always people washing.
            > My concern was that people were washing in the water others were drinking.
            >
            > What I never saw was a naked adult bathing but I did see boys naked under
            > corner street faucets.
            > In China away from the cities driving down a road you would find naked
            > folks bathing. I visited a government
            > hospital in KGF and was impressed that ladies ward was neat and orderly but
            > the bathing and latrine area was not.
            > IN a Chinese provincial hospital where I did some nursing, you had men and
            > women and children all together
            > and there was zero privacy. In China families are expected to bathe,
            > provide personal care and feed their family
            > members. When you have a dozen in the same room that makes for zero
            > privacy.
            >
            > In both rural
            > China and India, you had to watch your step as folks defecated anywhere and
            > in India even in government office
            > courtyards. In some cultures folks carry a shovel but not in India. In
            > India it is squat and run. Many times at night
            > I would drive around a curve and find a person squatting bare butt on the
            > road side.
            > In China I was riding with a Chinese friend and
            > we stopped at a bus terminal and there were signs indicating restrooms ...
            > that was not always the case ... but
            > my friend and half a dozen other men took about 3 steps away from the bus
            > and pissed away as the rest of the
            > bus load of passengers passed by close enough to bump them. In India on
            > one bus trip to Chittour from KGF,
            > our bus driver stopped the bus at a stop in town walked about 30 steps to a
            > bridge over a creek on the cross
            > street and pissed away into the water with zero concern about such things
            > totally visible to all on that side of the bus.
            >
            > As for concerns about children dying from polluted water .. your comment
            > reflects some that I heard in
            > India ... why change things? What good would it do. A local politician
            > took a totally different viewpoint as
            > his concerns were like mine. He said, "Indians would rather have free
            > color TVs and cell phones rather
            > than safe drinking water for their children." I attended many funerals in
            > India and I never ceased to be
            > amazed at how many children died. In the KGF so many children died that
            > some parents did not name the
            > child till its first birthday. I did attend baby naming services. And
            > lots of memorial services for deceased.
            >
            > Also I did visit a water treatment plant in KGF that was built by the
            > British. It was at 100 years old. Some of the equipment was not working so
            > the water bypassed the huge sediment
            > sand filters. I noticed a phone booth there that had USA made equipment
            > that was
            > dated 1923. To be honest that really surprised me. It was a British style
            > phone booth but with American
            > equipment.
            >
            > I first got started doing sanitation training as I was part of the relief
            > effort in China 2008 when the Sichuan Earthquake
            > happened. Survivors were still being dug out of the rubble when I
            > arrived. officially 79,000 people died with another
            > 20,000 still listed as missing even though their villages were totally
            > buried in land slides. Water sanitation was a
            > serious concern in the refugee camps. I was in China when the earthquake
            > happened and since my friends knew that
            > I had been involved with the relief effort in Los Angeles with the
            > Northridge earthquake 1994, I was asked what they
            > could do to help. #1 was clean water. #2 was flashlights as huge areas
            > were without power and 10 MILLION were
            > made homeless. Lots of folks got hurt going back to their damaged homes
            > and fumbling and falling in the dark. It was the
            > same in Northridge except many folks had working cars. In Sichuan vehicles
            > were scarce in the rural areas. Even in
            > the city the entire 6 months I was in China my #1 means of transpartation
            > was a bicycle. I also used a bicycle in India,
            > but we also had access to a Suzuki 1200cc microvan. I even taught my host
            > how to drive and he was able to get a driver's
            > license.
            >
            > I have been asked to return to India but my host when I was there has asked
            > me to go to Cambodia to visit a group that
            > teaches how to build long life low cost water filters. He would like to
            > start a business making and selling them as a public
            > service. I have made contact with two different groups that have two
            > different ways to cheaply purify water. Where I was
            > in KGF we only had power for a couple hours most days. That makes it more
            > challenging to purify water. I am a fan of
            > solar cooking and that is one way to heat water to kill pathogens. Filters
            > remove them also. Most of south asia has problems
            > with arsenic and heavy metals in the water supply. KGF because of the gold
            > mining has even greater problems. Using
            > Google earth you can see huge areas where mine tailings were dumped and
            > even 60 years after the British quit gold mining -
            > nothing grows in some of those areas. Why should anyone today care? Those
            > folks have lived with that problem for
            > almost two hundred years. Well I do care. It gives me good Karma in
            > places where lots of bad Karma exists. Arsenic and
            > other things have gotten into the food chain as well as the water. It is a
            > serious health issue.
            >
            > Bobby Ray ... one who cares ... I believe we should feed the hungry, heal
            > the sick, and clothe the naked.
            > I make an attempt to do what I can. I am reminded that when I was in
            > Chittour, we passed a poor man that had just been
            > injured. He was using a dirty plastic bag to wipe up the blood ...
            > another problem in India is the plastic bags blowing in the wind
            > everywhere - in the old days paper could be burned for heat.
            > I asked the driver to stop so we could help him ... He kept driving. So
            > sad ... so few care. Not my caste, not my problem.
            > Indians are so smart and intelligent ... it seems a shame to waste so much
            > of that. 99% of the time I was treated very
            > kindly by Indians. Twice, I did I have problems from the same Muslim
            > man. On the far side of Karnataka going west, I also
            > ran into problems with a Hindu militant that was concerned that I was
            > visiting a local tribal group because they had invited me.
            > He had me arrested and I was detained for many hours before I was
            > released. I made it back to the tribal village and they
            > hid me because they expected more trouble ... and they were right.
            >
            > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > **
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens
            > > and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been
            > > associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years
            > and
            > > I have a few comments to make.
            > >
            > > I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go
            > > into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing
            > or
            > > two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a
            > > lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple
            > > practices as washing hands.
            > >
            > > But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically
            > > supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have
            > > survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in
            > > the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple
            > > and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.
            > >
            > > And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt
            > > prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic
            > is
            > > followed which does not contaminate ground water.
            > >
            > > There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the
            > > British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has
            > > changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to
            > the
            > > village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average
            > > rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic
            > fault
            > > lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times
            > indeed.
            > >
            > > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
            > >
            > > Warm regards,
            > >
            > > Sumant Joshi
            > > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
            > >
            > > >________________________________
            > > > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
            > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > > >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
            > > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first
            > > year itself
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many
            > nights
            > > >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had
            > > first
            > > >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
            > > >
            > > >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English
            > > and
            > > >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
            > > >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and
            > he
            > > >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
            > > >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a
            > fence.
            > > >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but
            > > they
            > > >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden
            > got
            > > >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
            > > >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
            > > >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
            > > >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in
            > Bangalore
            > > >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
            > > >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
            > > >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
            > > >were
            > > >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
            > > >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
            > > >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air
            > encounter
            > > >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
            > > >open.
            > > >
            > > >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
            > > >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
            > > >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny
            > to
            > > >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
            > > >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet
            > and
            > > >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for
            > 6
            > > >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation -
            > health
            > > >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
            > > >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ...
            > but
            > > >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
            > > >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
            > > >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
            > > >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many
            > children
            > > >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with
            > digestive
            > > >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they
            > have
            > > >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
            > > >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
            > > >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
            > > >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
            > > >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
            > > >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
            > > >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
            > > >it.
            > > >
            > > >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find
            > was
            > > >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and
            > next
            > > >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who
            > helped
            > > >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
            > > >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in
            > soil
            > > >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.orgThese
            > > >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love
            > visiting
            > > >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
            > > >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
            > > >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was
            > my
            > > >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back
            > east
            > > >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer
            > heat
            > > >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash
            > and
            > > >those seeds
            > > >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
            > > >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less
            > than
            > > >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than
            > we
            > > >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
            > > >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
            > > >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
            > > >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
            > > >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
            > > >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because
            > > of
            > > >the good safe food it produces.
            > > >
            > > >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
            > > >
            > > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
            > > ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
            > > >
            > > >> **
            > >
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
            > > >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya
            > successfully
            > > >> in
            > > >> the first year itself.
            > > >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada
            > newspaper.
            > > >>
            > > >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
            > > >>
            > > >> Raghava,
            > > >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
            > > >> +91 94489 23773.
            > > >>
            > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >>
            > > >
            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


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          • Travellingatthespeedofthought
            Hey Natural Lovers, I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my experiences around growing papaya. I can t say enough good things
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 24, 2013
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              Hey Natural Lovers,

              I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my experiences around growing papaya.

              I can't say enough good things about papaya.  It gives you fruit in the first year and is quite easy to grow.  Papaya is super nutritious and is a great addition to anyones diet.

              I also grow papaya, but just for my own family, however last year I had such great production I was able to share with all my neighbors.  From one tree I got about 300 kgs of papaya.  Considering that a papaya only takes up about 2 square feet of land, it is highly productive.  In permaculture we refer to papaya as a great example of natures "stacking" or "vertical growing".  

              It is always hard to say exactly why things grow successfully, but I have one very simple, "natural" method I use for growing papaya.  Do you want to know what it is...

              Check out the photos of my papaya...

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1006082808/pic/list


              Zac


              ________________________________
              From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
              To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:41 PM
              Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself



              Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
              natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully in
              the first year itself.
              An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.


              http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
               
              Raghava,
              Davangere, Karnataka, India.
              +91 94489 23773.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ruthie Aquino
              hi there green papaya is cooked as a vegetable in a ginger broth with or without chicken in the Philippines , and one of its advantages when cooked with meat
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 25, 2013
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                hi there
                green papaya is cooked as a vegetable in a ginger broth with or without
                chicken in the Philippines , and one of its advantages when cooked with
                meat is that it is a natural meat tenderizer.
                green papaya is also shredded and pickled with condiments and some carrot
                rounds cut to look like flowers to decorate the jar.
                in areas with an abundance of coconut trees it is cooked as a curry in
                coconut milk.
                best
                RUTHIE


                2013/4/25 Travellingatthespeedofthought <zacworldwide@...>

                > **
                >
                >
                > Hey Natural Lovers,
                >
                > I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my
                > experiences around growing papaya.
                >
                > I can't say enough good things about papaya. It gives you fruit in the
                > first year and is quite easy to grow. Papaya is super nutritious and is a
                > great addition to anyones diet.
                >
                > I also grow papaya, but just for my own family, however last year I had
                > such great production I was able to share with all my neighbors. From one
                > tree I got about 300 kgs of papaya. Considering that a papaya only takes
                > up about 2 square feet of land, it is highly productive. In permaculture
                > we refer to papaya as a great example of natures "stacking" or "vertical
                > growing".
                >
                > It is always hard to say exactly why things grow successfully, but I have
                > one very simple, "natural" method I use for growing papaya. Do you want to
                > know what it is...
                >
                > Check out the photos of my papaya...
                >
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1006082808/pic/list
                >
                > Zac
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
                > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:41 PM
                > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year
                > itself
                >
                >
                >
                > Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
                > natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
                > in
                > the first year itself.
                > An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
                >
                > http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
                >
                > Raghava,
                > Davangere, Karnataka, India.
                > +91 94489 23773.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


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