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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself

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  • Yugandhar S
    Raghava, thanks for sharing this. Had been to his farm. Still got pending invitations from him and Raju sir to visit their farms and stay for 3 or 4 days with
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 26, 2013
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      Raghava, thanks for sharing this. Had been to his farm. Still got pending
      invitations from him and Raju sir to visit their farms and stay for 3 or 4
      days with family ;-)

      Anyway, I was about to write personally to you. I request you to share your
      knowledge in NF here on this forum. People have issues and questions.
      Please share your experiences and observations here.

      Also if possible, please share the key points from that article in english
      here, for every ones benefit.

      Love
      Yugandhar

      On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      >
      > Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
      > natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
      > in
      > the first year itself.
      > An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
      >
      > http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
      >
      > Raghava,
      > Davangere, Karnataka, India.
      > +91 94489 23773.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nandan Palaparambil
      Raghava, This looks pretty impressive. I think Kailashamurthy also has been natural farming for more than 20 years? I am not able to read the text, but picture
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 27, 2013
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        Raghava,
        This looks pretty impressive. I think Kailashamurthy also has been natural farming for more than 20 years? I am not able to read the text, but picture of the plastic drums tells that he is using 'Jeewamritham or some such cow dung/cow urine based preparation.
        Also does he uses Mucuna as the cover crop? From the video available in the youtube showed some such plant.

        Regards,Nandan

        --- On Tue, 3/26/13, Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...> wrote:

        From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself
        To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, March 26, 2013, 1:26 PM
















         











        Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a

        natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully in

        the first year itself.

        An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.



        http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453

         

        Raghava,

        Davangere, Karnataka, India.

        +91 94489 23773.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Raghava Aikanthika
        i have attached a photo of Aikanthika , showing first yield of a local variety Papaya fruit plant grown in NF, not planted, came up naturally. Also, you can
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 17, 2013
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          i have attached a photo of 'Aikanthika', showing first yield of a local variety Papaya fruit plant grown in NF, not planted, came up naturally.

          Also, you can see the same photo in the below link.
          https://plus.google.com/photos/102110589050296537282/albums/5867848977320207713?banner=pwa

           
          Raghava,
          Davangere, Karnataka, India.
          +91 94489 23773.


          ________________________________
          From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 28 March 2013 7:45 AM
          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself



           
          Raghava,
          This looks pretty impressive. I think Kailashamurthy also has been natural farming for more than 20 years? I am not able to read the text, but picture of the plastic drums tells that he is using 'Jeewamritham or some such cow dung/cow urine based preparation.
          Also does he uses Mucuna as the cover crop? From the video available in the youtube showed some such plant.

          Regards,Nandan

          --- On Tue, 3/26/13, Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...> wrote:

          From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
          Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself
          To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.comfukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Tuesday, March 26, 2013, 1:26 PM

           

          Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a

          natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully in

          the first year itself.

          An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.

          http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453

           

          Raghava,

          Davangere, Karnataka, India.

          +91 94489 23773.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bobby Ray
          I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first year
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 17, 2013
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            I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
            we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first
            year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.

            We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English and
            he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
            every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
            started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
            they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
            At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but they
            were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
            eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
            had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
            not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
            and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
            and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
            get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
            ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
            were
            agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
            we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
            We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
            and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
            open.

            I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
            One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
            used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
            see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
            India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
            a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
            months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
            practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
            procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
            we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
            doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
            seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
            also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
            die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
            system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
            the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
            dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
            the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
            relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
            often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
            urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
            water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
            it.

            Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
            what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
            trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
            me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
            Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
            beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
            folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
            other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
            I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
            altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
            most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
            and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
            kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
            those seeds
            produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
            prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
            20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
            could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
            squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
            potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
            killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
            ... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
            healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because of
            the good safe food it produces.

            Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.


            On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
            <aikanthika@...>wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            >
            > Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
            > natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
            > in
            > the first year itself.
            > An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
            >
            > http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
            >
            > Raghava,
            > Davangere, Karnataka, India.
            > +91 94489 23773.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sumant Joshi
            Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been associated with
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 17, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years and I have a few comments to make.

              I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing or two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple practices as washing hands.

              But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.

              And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic is followed which does not contaminate ground water.

              There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to the village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic fault lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times indeed.



              Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


              Warm regards,

              Sumant Joshi
              Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



              >________________________________
              > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
              >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
              >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself
              >
              >
              >

              >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
              >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had first
              >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
              >
              >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English and
              >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
              >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
              >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
              >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
              >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but they
              >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
              >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
              >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
              >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
              >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
              >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
              >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
              >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
              >were
              >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
              >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
              >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
              >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
              >open.
              >
              >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
              >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
              >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
              >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
              >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
              >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
              >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
              >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
              >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
              >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
              >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
              >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
              >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
              >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
              >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
              >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
              >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
              >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
              >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
              >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
              >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
              >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
              >it.
              >
              >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
              >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
              >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
              >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
              >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
              >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
              >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
              >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
              >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
              >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
              >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
              >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
              >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
              >those seeds
              >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
              >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
              >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
              >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
              >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
              >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
              >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
              >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
              >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because of
              >the good safe food it produces.
              >
              >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
              >
              >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
              ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
              >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
              >> in
              >> the first year itself.
              >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
              >>
              >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
              >>
              >> Raghava,
              >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
              >> +91 94489 23773.
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bobby Ray
              Greetings, I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they ate and drank what they drank ... except I bought the entire family
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 18, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Greetings,

                I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they
                ate and drank what they drank ...
                except I bought the entire family 5gallon/20 liter jugs of water for 35
                rupees. We all drank that water.
                I went one step further when my host family's lady in charge got sick from
                arsenic poisoning, I got the
                family a Berkey water filter system with the add-on cartridges to deal with
                arsenic and heavy metals.
                She was very sick and I took over some of her duties in the kitchen which
                later she told me was totally
                unexpected. They never expected me to wash dishes and help wash clothes.

                I never considered Indians to be dirty people. Everywhere I saw running
                water I saw folks washing.
                Even in the railway stations where water was flowing in a stream there were
                always people washing.
                My concern was that people were washing in the water others were drinking.

                What I never saw was a naked adult bathing but I did see boys naked under
                corner street faucets.
                In China away from the cities driving down a road you would find naked
                folks bathing. I visited a government
                hospital in KGF and was impressed that ladies ward was neat and orderly but
                the bathing and latrine area was not.
                IN a Chinese provincial hospital where I did some nursing, you had men and
                women and children all together
                and there was zero privacy. In China families are expected to bathe,
                provide personal care and feed their family
                members. When you have a dozen in the same room that makes for zero
                privacy.

                In both rural
                China and India, you had to watch your step as folks defecated anywhere and
                in India even in government office
                courtyards. In some cultures folks carry a shovel but not in India. In
                India it is squat and run. Many times at night
                I would drive around a curve and find a person squatting bare butt on the
                road side.
                In China I was riding with a Chinese friend and
                we stopped at a bus terminal and there were signs indicating restrooms ...
                that was not always the case ... but
                my friend and half a dozen other men took about 3 steps away from the bus
                and pissed away as the rest of the
                bus load of passengers passed by close enough to bump them. In India on
                one bus trip to Chittour from KGF,
                our bus driver stopped the bus at a stop in town walked about 30 steps to a
                bridge over a creek on the cross
                street and pissed away into the water with zero concern about such things
                totally visible to all on that side of the bus.

                As for concerns about children dying from polluted water .. your comment
                reflects some that I heard in
                India ... why change things? What good would it do. A local politician
                took a totally different viewpoint as
                his concerns were like mine. He said, "Indians would rather have free
                color TVs and cell phones rather
                than safe drinking water for their children." I attended many funerals in
                India and I never ceased to be
                amazed at how many children died. In the KGF so many children died that
                some parents did not name the
                child till its first birthday. I did attend baby naming services. And
                lots of memorial services for deceased.

                Also I did visit a water treatment plant in KGF that was built by the
                British. It was at 100 years old. Some of the equipment was not working so
                the water bypassed the huge sediment
                sand filters. I noticed a phone booth there that had USA made equipment
                that was
                dated 1923. To be honest that really surprised me. It was a British style
                phone booth but with American
                equipment.

                I first got started doing sanitation training as I was part of the relief
                effort in China 2008 when the Sichuan Earthquake
                happened. Survivors were still being dug out of the rubble when I
                arrived. officially 79,000 people died with another
                20,000 still listed as missing even though their villages were totally
                buried in land slides. Water sanitation was a
                serious concern in the refugee camps. I was in China when the earthquake
                happened and since my friends knew that
                I had been involved with the relief effort in Los Angeles with the
                Northridge earthquake 1994, I was asked what they
                could do to help. #1 was clean water. #2 was flashlights as huge areas
                were without power and 10 MILLION were
                made homeless. Lots of folks got hurt going back to their damaged homes
                and fumbling and falling in the dark. It was the
                same in Northridge except many folks had working cars. In Sichuan vehicles
                were scarce in the rural areas. Even in
                the city the entire 6 months I was in China my #1 means of transpartation
                was a bicycle. I also used a bicycle in India,
                but we also had access to a Suzuki 1200cc microvan. I even taught my host
                how to drive and he was able to get a driver's
                license.

                I have been asked to return to India but my host when I was there has asked
                me to go to Cambodia to visit a group that
                teaches how to build long life low cost water filters. He would like to
                start a business making and selling them as a public
                service. I have made contact with two different groups that have two
                different ways to cheaply purify water. Where I was
                in KGF we only had power for a couple hours most days. That makes it more
                challenging to purify water. I am a fan of
                solar cooking and that is one way to heat water to kill pathogens. Filters
                remove them also. Most of south asia has problems
                with arsenic and heavy metals in the water supply. KGF because of the gold
                mining has even greater problems. Using
                Google earth you can see huge areas where mine tailings were dumped and
                even 60 years after the British quit gold mining -
                nothing grows in some of those areas. Why should anyone today care? Those
                folks have lived with that problem for
                almost two hundred years. Well I do care. It gives me good Karma in
                places where lots of bad Karma exists. Arsenic and
                other things have gotten into the food chain as well as the water. It is a
                serious health issue.

                Bobby Ray ... one who cares ... I believe we should feed the hungry, heal
                the sick, and clothe the naked.
                I make an attempt to do what I can. I am reminded that when I was in
                Chittour, we passed a poor man that had just been
                injured. He was using a dirty plastic bag to wipe up the blood ...
                another problem in India is the plastic bags blowing in the wind
                everywhere - in the old days paper could be burned for heat.
                I asked the driver to stop so we could help him ... He kept driving. So
                sad ... so few care. Not my caste, not my problem.
                Indians are so smart and intelligent ... it seems a shame to waste so much
                of that. 99% of the time I was treated very
                kindly by Indians. Twice, I did I have problems from the same Muslim
                man. On the far side of Karnataka going west, I also
                ran into problems with a Hindu militant that was concerned that I was
                visiting a local tribal group because they had invited me.
                He had me arrested and I was detained for many hours before I was
                released. I made it back to the tribal village and they
                hid me because they expected more trouble ... and they were right.



                On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens
                > and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been
                > associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years and
                > I have a few comments to make.
                >
                > I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go
                > into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing or
                > two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a
                > lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple
                > practices as washing hands.
                >
                > But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically
                > supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have
                > survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in
                > the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple
                > and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.
                >
                > And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt
                > prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic is
                > followed which does not contaminate ground water.
                >
                > There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the
                > British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has
                > changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to the
                > village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average
                > rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic fault
                > lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times indeed.
                >
                > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
                >
                > Warm regards,
                >
                > Sumant Joshi
                > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
                >
                > >________________________________
                > > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
                > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
                > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first
                > year itself
                >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many nights
                > >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had
                > first
                > >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
                > >
                > >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English
                > and
                > >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
                > >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and he
                > >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
                > >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a fence.
                > >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but
                > they
                > >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden got
                > >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
                > >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
                > >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
                > >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in Bangalore
                > >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
                > >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
                > >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
                > >were
                > >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
                > >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
                > >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air encounter
                > >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
                > >open.
                > >
                > >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
                > >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
                > >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny to
                > >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
                > >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet and
                > >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for 6
                > >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation - health
                > >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
                > >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ... but
                > >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
                > >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
                > >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
                > >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many children
                > >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with digestive
                > >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they have
                > >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
                > >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
                > >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
                > >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
                > >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
                > >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
                > >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
                > >it.
                > >
                > >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find was
                > >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and next
                > >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who helped
                > >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
                > >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in soil
                > >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.org These
                > >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love visiting
                > >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
                > >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
                > >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was my
                > >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back east
                > >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer heat
                > >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash and
                > >those seeds
                > >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
                > >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less than
                > >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than we
                > >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
                > >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
                > >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
                > >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
                > >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
                > >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because
                > of
                > >the good safe food it produces.
                > >
                > >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
                > >
                > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
                > ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
                > >
                > >> **
                >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
                > >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
                > >> in
                > >> the first year itself.
                > >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
                > >>
                > >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
                > >>
                > >> Raghava,
                > >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
                > >> +91 94489 23773.
                > >>
                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ruthie Aquino
                Dear Bobby Thanks for sharing. What a moving thing to discover there are modern-day people like you who work without judging those you try to help. Best
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 19, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Bobby
                  Thanks for sharing.
                  What a moving thing to discover there are modern-day people like you who
                  work without judging those you try to help.
                  Best regards,
                  RUTHIE


                  2013/4/18 Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Greetings,
                  >
                  > I lived in India with poor Indian families for 6 months. I ate what they
                  > ate and drank what they drank ...
                  > except I bought the entire family 5gallon/20 liter jugs of water for 35
                  > rupees. We all drank that water.
                  > I went one step further when my host family's lady in charge got sick from
                  > arsenic poisoning, I got the
                  > family a Berkey water filter system with the add-on cartridges to deal with
                  > arsenic and heavy metals.
                  > She was very sick and I took over some of her duties in the kitchen which
                  > later she told me was totally
                  > unexpected. They never expected me to wash dishes and help wash clothes.
                  >
                  > I never considered Indians to be dirty people. Everywhere I saw running
                  > water I saw folks washing.
                  > Even in the railway stations where water was flowing in a stream there were
                  > always people washing.
                  > My concern was that people were washing in the water others were drinking.
                  >
                  > What I never saw was a naked adult bathing but I did see boys naked under
                  > corner street faucets.
                  > In China away from the cities driving down a road you would find naked
                  > folks bathing. I visited a government
                  > hospital in KGF and was impressed that ladies ward was neat and orderly but
                  > the bathing and latrine area was not.
                  > IN a Chinese provincial hospital where I did some nursing, you had men and
                  > women and children all together
                  > and there was zero privacy. In China families are expected to bathe,
                  > provide personal care and feed their family
                  > members. When you have a dozen in the same room that makes for zero
                  > privacy.
                  >
                  > In both rural
                  > China and India, you had to watch your step as folks defecated anywhere and
                  > in India even in government office
                  > courtyards. In some cultures folks carry a shovel but not in India. In
                  > India it is squat and run. Many times at night
                  > I would drive around a curve and find a person squatting bare butt on the
                  > road side.
                  > In China I was riding with a Chinese friend and
                  > we stopped at a bus terminal and there were signs indicating restrooms ...
                  > that was not always the case ... but
                  > my friend and half a dozen other men took about 3 steps away from the bus
                  > and pissed away as the rest of the
                  > bus load of passengers passed by close enough to bump them. In India on
                  > one bus trip to Chittour from KGF,
                  > our bus driver stopped the bus at a stop in town walked about 30 steps to a
                  > bridge over a creek on the cross
                  > street and pissed away into the water with zero concern about such things
                  > totally visible to all on that side of the bus.
                  >
                  > As for concerns about children dying from polluted water .. your comment
                  > reflects some that I heard in
                  > India ... why change things? What good would it do. A local politician
                  > took a totally different viewpoint as
                  > his concerns were like mine. He said, "Indians would rather have free
                  > color TVs and cell phones rather
                  > than safe drinking water for their children." I attended many funerals in
                  > India and I never ceased to be
                  > amazed at how many children died. In the KGF so many children died that
                  > some parents did not name the
                  > child till its first birthday. I did attend baby naming services. And
                  > lots of memorial services for deceased.
                  >
                  > Also I did visit a water treatment plant in KGF that was built by the
                  > British. It was at 100 years old. Some of the equipment was not working so
                  > the water bypassed the huge sediment
                  > sand filters. I noticed a phone booth there that had USA made equipment
                  > that was
                  > dated 1923. To be honest that really surprised me. It was a British style
                  > phone booth but with American
                  > equipment.
                  >
                  > I first got started doing sanitation training as I was part of the relief
                  > effort in China 2008 when the Sichuan Earthquake
                  > happened. Survivors were still being dug out of the rubble when I
                  > arrived. officially 79,000 people died with another
                  > 20,000 still listed as missing even though their villages were totally
                  > buried in land slides. Water sanitation was a
                  > serious concern in the refugee camps. I was in China when the earthquake
                  > happened and since my friends knew that
                  > I had been involved with the relief effort in Los Angeles with the
                  > Northridge earthquake 1994, I was asked what they
                  > could do to help. #1 was clean water. #2 was flashlights as huge areas
                  > were without power and 10 MILLION were
                  > made homeless. Lots of folks got hurt going back to their damaged homes
                  > and fumbling and falling in the dark. It was the
                  > same in Northridge except many folks had working cars. In Sichuan vehicles
                  > were scarce in the rural areas. Even in
                  > the city the entire 6 months I was in China my #1 means of transpartation
                  > was a bicycle. I also used a bicycle in India,
                  > but we also had access to a Suzuki 1200cc microvan. I even taught my host
                  > how to drive and he was able to get a driver's
                  > license.
                  >
                  > I have been asked to return to India but my host when I was there has asked
                  > me to go to Cambodia to visit a group that
                  > teaches how to build long life low cost water filters. He would like to
                  > start a business making and selling them as a public
                  > service. I have made contact with two different groups that have two
                  > different ways to cheaply purify water. Where I was
                  > in KGF we only had power for a couple hours most days. That makes it more
                  > challenging to purify water. I am a fan of
                  > solar cooking and that is one way to heat water to kill pathogens. Filters
                  > remove them also. Most of south asia has problems
                  > with arsenic and heavy metals in the water supply. KGF because of the gold
                  > mining has even greater problems. Using
                  > Google earth you can see huge areas where mine tailings were dumped and
                  > even 60 years after the British quit gold mining -
                  > nothing grows in some of those areas. Why should anyone today care? Those
                  > folks have lived with that problem for
                  > almost two hundred years. Well I do care. It gives me good Karma in
                  > places where lots of bad Karma exists. Arsenic and
                  > other things have gotten into the food chain as well as the water. It is a
                  > serious health issue.
                  >
                  > Bobby Ray ... one who cares ... I believe we should feed the hungry, heal
                  > the sick, and clothe the naked.
                  > I make an attempt to do what I can. I am reminded that when I was in
                  > Chittour, we passed a poor man that had just been
                  > injured. He was using a dirty plastic bag to wipe up the blood ...
                  > another problem in India is the plastic bags blowing in the wind
                  > everywhere - in the old days paper could be burned for heat.
                  > I asked the driver to stop so we could help him ... He kept driving. So
                  > sad ... so few care. Not my caste, not my problem.
                  > Indians are so smart and intelligent ... it seems a shame to waste so much
                  > of that. 99% of the time I was treated very
                  > kindly by Indians. Twice, I did I have problems from the same Muslim
                  > man. On the far side of Karnataka going west, I also
                  > ran into problems with a Hindu militant that was concerned that I was
                  > visiting a local tribal group because they had invited me.
                  > He had me arrested and I was detained for many hours before I was
                  > released. I made it back to the tribal village and they
                  > hid me because they expected more trouble ... and they were right.
                  >
                  > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Bobby , from your account, you sound like a drifting farmer of gardens
                  > > and it was nice to read about your travels and travails. I have been
                  > > associated with an NGO working with village people fro the last 3 years
                  > and
                  > > I have a few comments to make.
                  > >
                  > > I think most of us city dwellers and more so, foreign "white" people, go
                  > > into Indian villages thinking they will teach these dirty people a thing
                  > or
                  > > two about sanitation. Yes, in many ways it makes sense and will achieve a
                  > > lot in terms of children dying unnecessarily by following such simple
                  > > practices as washing hands.
                  > >
                  > > But what I have realized is that anything people are taught is basically
                  > > supplanting new memes into a culture which already has others which have
                  > > survived for a long time and are time tested. whether it is defecating in
                  > > the open or adopting sustainable farming practices or something as simple
                  > > and obvious as the value of learning to read and write.
                  > >
                  > > And memes change very very slowly and sometimes it is too late. I doubt
                  > > prohibiting people defecating in the open makes sense as long as a logic
                  > is
                  > > followed which does not contaminate ground water.
                  > >
                  > > There was a time when people thought forests belonged to them until the
                  > > British change the law and nationalized all forests. today the law has
                  > > changed back but people can't believe that forests can and do belong to
                  > the
                  > > village. The result? severe drought in central India despite average
                  > > rainfall. I can sense the impending collapse. unless these intrinsic
                  > fault
                  > > lines are addressed, we could be heading into very difficult times
                  > indeed.
                  > >
                  > > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
                  > >
                  > > Warm regards,
                  > >
                  > > Sumant Joshi
                  > > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
                  > >
                  > > >________________________________
                  > > > From: Bobby Ray <atruefriend@...>
                  > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:47 PM
                  > > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first
                  > > year itself
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >I was in Kolar Gold Fields - a couple km away from Kata Linga (Many
                  > nights
                  > > >we could hear their activities.) and my farmer neighbor regularly had
                  > > first
                  > > >year crop Papayas. Very tasty too! He brought them to us regularly.
                  > > >
                  > > >We were unable to talk to each other directly as he didn't know English
                  > > and
                  > > >he spoke Tamil/Telegu but we played chess in the hottest part of
                  > > >every afternoon when he was working his fields. Cows ate his garden and
                  > he
                  > > >started to put of a fence and the village got angry .. but somehow
                  > > >they reached and agreement or he went ahead and did it and put up a
                  > fence.
                  > > >At first we were able to chase the starving cows out of our garden but
                  > > they
                  > > >were very persistent as we had the only green spot around. Our garden
                  > got
                  > > >eaten regularly and we put up a fence ... funny we
                  > > >had Granite fence posts that cost us about $1.25US each. At first we did
                  > > >not have money for barbed wire but I got a 1000 feet of poly rope cheap
                  > > >and that worked for a while. Finally we got used barbed wire in
                  > Bangalore
                  > > >and put it up. That worked great until the goats figured out how to
                  > > >get in. We redid the fence and low and behold ... we had crows and
                  > > >ravens. Out of our first garden we only got a few pumpkins. The birds
                  > > >were
                  > > >agressive in eating what we planted. Also there were rats. Fortunately
                  > > >we had active hawks in the area maybe they were small eagles ...
                  > > >We saw them catching rats. One which caught a rat had a mid air
                  > encounter
                  > > >and dropped its rat. It did not survive the fall - its belly was ripped
                  > > >open.
                  > > >
                  > > >I look forward to returning to KGF. I also was doing fish culture there.
                  > > >One person commented that he had never seen a white man work ... after I
                  > > >used a pick to break up the rock hard ground. Another said it was funny
                  > to
                  > > >see an old white man wearing only a lungee chasing cows. Such is life in
                  > > >India ... I lived just like the locals except we had a phone, internet
                  > and
                  > > >a flush toilet. I was there 6 months and before that I was in China for
                  > 6
                  > > >months. In both rural areas I was involved in teaching sanitation -
                  > health
                  > > >practices ... ten items in our course from hand washing to birthing
                  > > >procedures and we encouraged villages to build "Tibetian Toilets" ...
                  > but
                  > > >we never saw that happen. OUr major emphasis was on water purity and not
                  > > >doing things that would pollute drinking water. Our water came from a
                  > > >seasonal lake and villagers let their cattle get into it regularly. They
                  > > >also bathed in it and washed clothes there too. No wonder so many
                  > children
                  > > >die. Part of our health course taught how to treat children with
                  > digestive
                  > > >system distress. Many parents stop giving water to children when they
                  > have
                  > > >the "runs" That is the wrong thing to do as the children die of
                  > > >dehydration. Even in our house with a flush toilet and a water system on
                  > > >the roof - 3 generations of women several of the ladies preferred to
                  > > >relieve themselves outside in the field especially at night. At night, I
                  > > >often pissed in the garden as I didn't want to disturb others and fresh
                  > > >urine diluted 5-1 with water makes a good free fertilizer. So does fish
                  > > >water from raising fish. That waste water is excellent. Our plants loved
                  > > >it.
                  > > >
                  > > >Of course Indians don't often use picks. The largest pick I could find
                  > was
                  > > >what I would call lady-sized. I did like the Indian style shovel and
                  > next
                  > > >trip I will bring one home for my garden use. My Indian friends who
                  > helped
                  > > >me with the garden perferred a "digging bar." For me that was harder.
                  > > >Recently I have been reading interesting things about growing food in
                  > soil
                  > > >beds at www.growfood.com which is tied into www.foodforeveryone.orgThese
                  > > >folks even grow gardens on roof tops and in parking lots. I love
                  > visiting
                  > > >other folks gardens. I welcome invitations as I travel all over the USA.
                  > > >I live in Southern California in the low desert at 750 feet / 275 meters
                  > > >altitude. Last year I grew a garden with almost no water usage. It was
                  > my
                  > > >most productive garden yet but it was lots of prep work. I went back
                  > east
                  > > >and came back and was amazed that I still had a garden as the summer
                  > heat
                  > > >kills everything. I had planted squash seeds from a huge tasty squash
                  > and
                  > > >those seeds
                  > > >produced plants with huge leaves that shaded everything. I had also
                  > > >prepared the ground two feet deep and had added gypsum as we get less
                  > than
                  > > >20 inches (1/2 meter) a year. from a very small garden we had more than
                  > we
                  > > >could eat. Even my neighbors were over picking tomatoes hidden by the
                  > > >squash leaves. Onions and strawberries also survived as did some
                  > > >potatoes. I only discovered the potatoes after a couple 25 degree nights
                  > > >killed the squash. We pulled them and next frost killed everything else
                  > > >... maybe that was bad choice. Still I love gardening. It keeps me
                  > > >healthy ... partially because of the physical work and partially because
                  > > of
                  > > >the good safe food it produces.
                  > > >
                  > > >Bobby Ray ... hoping to meet you some time as I travel.
                  > > >
                  > > >On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 12:56 AM, Raghava Aikanthika
                  > > ><aikanthika@...>wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >> **
                  > >
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
                  > > >> natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya
                  > successfully
                  > > >> in
                  > > >> the first year itself.
                  > > >> An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada
                  > newspaper.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Raghava,
                  > > >> Davangere, Karnataka, India.
                  > > >> +91 94489 23773.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Travellingatthespeedofthought
                  Hey Natural Lovers, I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my experiences around growing papaya. I can t say enough good things
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 24, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hey Natural Lovers,

                    I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my experiences around growing papaya.

                    I can't say enough good things about papaya.  It gives you fruit in the first year and is quite easy to grow.  Papaya is super nutritious and is a great addition to anyones diet.

                    I also grow papaya, but just for my own family, however last year I had such great production I was able to share with all my neighbors.  From one tree I got about 300 kgs of papaya.  Considering that a papaya only takes up about 2 square feet of land, it is highly productive.  In permaculture we refer to papaya as a great example of natures "stacking" or "vertical growing".  

                    It is always hard to say exactly why things grow successfully, but I have one very simple, "natural" method I use for growing papaya.  Do you want to know what it is...

                    Check out the photos of my papaya...

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1006082808/pic/list


                    Zac


                    ________________________________
                    From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
                    To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:41 PM
                    Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year itself



                    Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
                    natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully in
                    the first year itself.
                    An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.


                    http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
                     
                    Raghava,
                    Davangere, Karnataka, India.
                    +91 94489 23773.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ruthie Aquino
                    hi there green papaya is cooked as a vegetable in a ginger broth with or without chicken in the Philippines , and one of its advantages when cooked with meat
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 25, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      hi there
                      green papaya is cooked as a vegetable in a ginger broth with or without
                      chicken in the Philippines , and one of its advantages when cooked with
                      meat is that it is a natural meat tenderizer.
                      green papaya is also shredded and pickled with condiments and some carrot
                      rounds cut to look like flowers to decorate the jar.
                      in areas with an abundance of coconut trees it is cooked as a curry in
                      coconut milk.
                      best
                      RUTHIE


                      2013/4/25 Travellingatthespeedofthought <zacworldwide@...>

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > Hey Natural Lovers,
                      >
                      > I have been away from the internet for a while but would like to share my
                      > experiences around growing papaya.
                      >
                      > I can't say enough good things about papaya. It gives you fruit in the
                      > first year and is quite easy to grow. Papaya is super nutritious and is a
                      > great addition to anyones diet.
                      >
                      > I also grow papaya, but just for my own family, however last year I had
                      > such great production I was able to share with all my neighbors. From one
                      > tree I got about 300 kgs of papaya. Considering that a papaya only takes
                      > up about 2 square feet of land, it is highly productive. In permaculture
                      > we refer to papaya as a great example of natures "stacking" or "vertical
                      > growing".
                      >
                      > It is always hard to say exactly why things grow successfully, but I have
                      > one very simple, "natural" method I use for growing papaya. Do you want to
                      > know what it is...
                      >
                      > Check out the photos of my papaya...
                      >
                      >
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1006082808/pic/list
                      >
                      > Zac
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Raghava Aikanthika <aikanthika@...>
                      > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:41 PM
                      > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Grown papaya successfully in the first year
                      > itself
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Kailash Murthy, a friend of mine & a
                      > natural farmer from Karnataka state,India, has grown papaya successfully
                      > in
                      > the first year itself.
                      > An article of the same appeared in the local language kannada newspaper.
                      >
                      > http://epapervijayavani.in/Details.aspx?id=4762&boxid=584453
                      >
                      > Raghava,
                      > Davangere, Karnataka, India.
                      > +91 94489 23773.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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