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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change

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  • Ivana Balazevic-Fisher
    Hello to all It looks fantastic.  I have not read each and every mail in the past, so maybe I missed it, but - if you grow wheat, where do you get the rice
    Message 1 of 112 , Mar 24, 2013
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      Hello to all

      It looks fantastic.  I have not read each and every mail in the past, so maybe I missed it, but - if you grow wheat, where do you get the rice straw?  Do you grow rice and wheat rotation, like Fukuoka did rice and barley?

      Picture 1; Why was the water given?  How is the water given?  How much of it?  What would happen if the water was not given? At what stages of wheat development was watering done?   Where does the rice straw come from?  From the same field the previous year, or some other field?

      PIcture 2: the straw in this picture is not decomposed - do you have pictures taken periodically to show the rate of decomposition every week? or two weeks? How much rainfall do you have during the time that the decomposition process is taking place?

      Picture 3, 4, 5: looks very impressive... how much seed did you use per hectare? How much yield did you have? what variety of wheat was it? How was the harvest done? What was done in the field after the harvest?

      Many thanks.

      Best regards

      Ivana









      --- On Sun, 3/24/13, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

      From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 11:06 AM
















       









      Dear Nandan,

      There is no need to bring extra straw from out side.What ever is available

      in farm scattering is sufficient. Chicken manure or any thing extra is not

      required for decomposition. If as waste some thing is available you can use

      no harm in it.

      I am loosely spreading straws it is easily

      decompose<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1211783871/pic/list>in

      time. Even in the initial stage very strong grass (Kans) was also

      decomposing in a year. We never sprayed

      any thing. In winter many time we scatter seeds directly without cover and

      getting good results. Many people confusing they think that straw mulching

      is essential.

      This is nothing but giving back straw, from same area from it is taken.



      In my area many farmers are very much afraid from straws they burn it every

      year. tilling, chemicals and burning straws have converted good lands in to

      deserts.

      Thanks

      Raju



      On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...> wrote:



      > **

      >

      >

      > To achieve the effect of high temperatures, you need a lot of husk or

      > straw, like at least one inch thick, blocking completely the sun.

      > Vegetables will yellow and die. Fukuoka used the straw from the previous

      > year, loosely scattered. He also used chicken pop to accelerate the

      > decomposition. These are the differences.

      >

      > Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> escreveu:

      >

      >

      > >If paddy straw generates high temperature and kills the weed seeds, how

      > >does the sown seed germinates? Fukuoka san used to sow the seeds of

      > >barley/wheat and then mulch with paddy straw.

      > >Regards,Nandan

      > >

      > >--- On Sat, 3/23/13, Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...> wrote:

      > >

      > >From: Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...>

      > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Allan Savory: How to green the world's

      > >deserts and reverse climate change

      > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com

      > >Date: Saturday, March 23, 2013, 2:35 PM

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >Paddy straw and rice husks, if you can have them, will decompose in

      > >about a year and left a very fertile soil behind. They decompose with

      > >high temperatures and kill most of the seeds, leaving a dark soil full

      > >of earth worms. But you need a lot of husk for this. And the problem

      > >still remains on how to establish a ground cover afterwards. New weed

      > >seeds will come from the wind and from the birds.

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >Venkat Iyer <ivenkat66@...> escreveu:

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >>Dear suman,

      > >

      > >>I tried plastic on a small piece of land last season. Here is what i

      > >

      > >>saw.

      > >

      > >>The cover did not let any grass grow under it at all. So in that

      > >

      > >>respect it

      > >

      > >>works. But, no water goes under the sheet and makes that part drier

      > >

      > >>than

      > >

      > >>the other parts. Once the sun hits the plastic it starts crumbling.

      > >

      > >>Leaves

      > >

      > >>a lot of plastic residue behind. Picking these pieces is time

      > >consuming

      > >

      > >>and

      > >

      > >>manual effort. After removing the sheet a lot of new weeds start

      > >

      > >>growing in

      > >

      > >>that space. That means that the seeds do survive under the plastic

      > >

      > >>sheet.

      > >

      > >>The soil under the sheet after removing is dry and smells awful. I did

      > >

      > >>not

      > >

      > >>see any insects in that area while the other open areas have a lot of

      > >

      > >>them.

      > >

      > >>The sheet cannot be resused for anything so it works out to be

      > >

      > >>expensive.

      > >

      > >>I had also tried another parallel plot with natural mulch grass and

      > >

      > >>paddy

      > >

      > >>straw. The grass did not grow there so the purpose is served and the

      > >

      > >>mulch

      > >

      > >>decomposed over time. No new weeds were observed in this area and the

      > >

      > >>soil

      > >

      > >>is almost edible.

      > >

      > >>Based on my experience i will not go for plastic cover.

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>On Saturday, March 23, 2013, Sumant Joshi wrote:

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>> **

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> I think most of us who are in any way related to the environmental

      > >

      > >>> movement are allergic to plastic. But then like George Carlin said,

      > >

      > >>plastic

      > >

      > >>> is one of mother Earth's children. If we use tools, scythes, hoes,

      > >

      > >>hammers

      > >

      > >>> etc. why not plastic? I am sure some amount of plastic is there in

      > >

      > >>tool

      > >

      > >>> handles etc. I didn't know chickens eat weeds and what do you do

      > >with

      > >

      > >>the

      > >

      > >>> tough poisonous ones?

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> Is it a good thing to be fixated with what Fukuoka did? is it

      > >

      > >>necessary to

      > >

      > >>> continuously look back and compare what he did or not? especially

      > >

      > >>when he

      > >

      > >>> himself said,"I realize that I know nothing" meaning IMHO that

      > >nature

      > >

      > >>knows

      > >

      > >>> best and we have to follow her and adopt practices which are

      > >pointing

      > >

      > >>us in

      > >

      > >>> the right direction.

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> these are questions I think we need to think about

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> Warm regards,

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> Sumant Joshi

      > >

      > >>> Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>> >________________________________

      > >

      > >>> > From: Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@... <javascript:_e({},

      > >'cvml',

      > >

      > >>> 'bigatojj%40gmail.com');>>

      > >

      > >>> >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

      > >

      > >>> 'fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com');>

      > >

      > >>> >Sent: Saturday, 23 March 2013 5:57 AM

      > >

      > >>> >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the

      > >

      > >>world's

      > >

      > >>> deserts and reverse climate change

      > >

      > >>> >

      > >

      > >>> >

      > >

      > >>> >

      > >

      > >>> >Sumant, I think the plastic is one easy and proven way to weaken

      > >the

      > >

      > >>> grasses. Closing chicken in enough number on a plot of land, they'll

      > >

      > >>will

      > >

      > >>> eat all the weeds after some time, except the ones that are toxic to

      > >

      > >>them.

      > >

      > >>> It makes the work quite easier and seems a bit more natural than the

      > >

      > >>> plastic. Then you rotate them to other plot of land while you

      > >

      > >>cultivate the

      > >

      > >>> one previously cleared, hopefully trying to establish some

      > >leguminous

      > >

      > >>> ground cover together with your cultures. I will do this later this

      > >

      > >>year.

      > >

      > >>> >

      > >

      > >>> >Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> escreveu:

      > >

      > >>> >

      > >

      > >>> >>Rajuji says," whether you cut the chicken's neck or squeeze it,

      > >the

      > >

      > >>end

      > >

      > >>> >>result is the same. Soil fertility depends on the humus matter in

      > >

      > >>it.

      > >

      > >>> >>There is nothing inorganic in a grain of soil. whether you apply

      > >

      > >>> >>tilling or cover it with plastic, she dies. this is violence which

      > >

      > >>is

      > >

      > >>> >>not expected in NF".

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>well, I beg to differ, I have put forward the plastic idea only

      > >for

      > >

      > >>the

      > >

      > >>> >>really tough grass. The plastic I think needs to be used for a

      > >

      > >>short

      > >

      > >>> >>period of time and once the grass is gone, it can be replaced with

      > >

      > >>the

      > >

      > >>> >>usual cover crop. I wonder if it makes sense for large areas

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>Warm regards,

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>Sumant Joshi

      > >

      > >>> >>Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>

      > >

      > >>> >>>________________________________

      > >

      > >>> >>> From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>

      > >

      > >>> >>>To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com

      > >

      > >>> >>>Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013 7:34 PM

      > >

      > >>> >>>Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the

      > >

      > >>> >>world's deserts and reverse climate change

      > >

      > >>> >>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>प्रिय सुमंत जी ,

      > >

      > >>> >>>मुर्गी की गर्दन काटे या उसकी गर्दन दबाएँ बात तो एक है। जमीन की

      > >

      > >>ताकत उस

      > >

      > >>> >>में

      > >

      > >>> >>>जीवित जैविक तत्वों पर आधारित है। मिट्टी के कण में अजैविक कुछ भी

      > >

      > >>नहीं

      > >

      > >>> >>है। जब

      > >

      > >>> >>>हम उस में हल चलाते हैं, जहर डालते हैं या उसे प्लास्टिक से ढँक

      > >देते

      > >

      > >>हैं

      > >

      > >>> >>तो

      > >

      > >>> >>>वह मर जाती है। ये बहुत बड़ी हिंसा है। फुकुओका फार्मिंग अहिंसा पर

      > >

      > >>> >>आधारित है।

      > >

      > >>> >>>धन्यवाद

      > >

      > >>> >>>राजू

      > >

      > >>> >>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Sumant Joshi

      > >

      > >><sumant_jo@...>

      > >

      > >>> >>wrote:

      > >

      > >>> >>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> **

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> Has anyone thought of cutting and then covering tough weed with

      > >

      > >>> >>cheap

      > >

      > >>> >>>> plastic sheet? should work

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> Warm regards,

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> Sumant Joshi

      > >

      > >>> >>>> Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >________________________________

      > >

      > >>> >>>> > From: Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013 2:49 PM

      > >

      > >>> >>>>

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green

      > >

      > >>the

      > >

      > >>> >>world's

      > >

      > >>> >>>> deserts and reverse climate change

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >

      > >

      > >>> >>>> >Indeed doing mulching the weeds recover much quicker than the

      > >

      > >>> >>culture

      > >

      > >>> >>>> seeds. Cutting grass and sowing in the mulched grass is unfair

      > >

      > >>> >>competition

      > >

      > >>> >>>> and the weeds will always win, because they grow quicker,

      > >

      > >>specially

      > >

      > >>> >>the

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >><

      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxb2FtdWViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM1MjA2NjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQxOTQ3BG1zZ0lkAzE1MjMzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2NDAxMTY3MA--?act=reply&messageNum=15233

      > >

      > >

      > >>>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>--

      > >

      > >>Regards,

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>Venkat Iyer

      > >

      > >>(Mob) : 9820052606

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>------------------------------------

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>Yahoo! Groups Links

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >>

      > >

      > >--

      > >

      > >E-mail enviado do meu celular Android usando K-9 Mail. Por favor,

      > >desculpe minha brevidade.

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > >------------------------------------

      > >

      > >Yahoo! Groups Links

      > >

      > >

      > >

      > --

      > E-mail enviado do meu celular Android usando K-9 Mail. Por favor, desculpe

      > minha brevidade.

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      >

      >



      --

      *Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*

      rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.

      http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/

      http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • trenthillsmike
      Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding
      Message 112 of 112 , Jun 16, 2013
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        Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding the plants. We've been adding plants that mine minerals (lambsquarter, pigweed, yarrow, stinging nettle, red clover, Dutch white clover, etc), attract pollinators all through the growing season, attract predatory insects, confuse pests. Our preference is for perennials or self-seeding annuals and biennials. And we've stopped mowing the orchard although I do selective scything to suppress plants that we don't want. We're very early in the process but we can see some results - https://picasaweb.google.com/PortagePerennials/HolisticOrchard#5888913239729330466

        Regards,
        Mike

        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Adding 6 inch mulch layer around young trees to make them survive summer is an interesting thing. Planning to try this for the mango trees. Last summer was very severe and lost some of the trees. 
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        > Nandan
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