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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change

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  • Nandan Palaparambil
    If paddy straw generates high temperature and kills the weed seeds, how does the sown seed germinates? Fukuoka san used to sow the seeds of barley/wheat and
    Message 1 of 112 , Mar 23, 2013
      If paddy straw generates high temperature and kills the weed seeds, how does the sown seed germinates? Fukuoka san used to sow the seeds of barley/wheat and then mulch with paddy straw.
      Regards,Nandan

      --- On Sat, 3/23/13, Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...> wrote:

      From: Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...>
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, March 23, 2013, 2:35 PM
















       









      Paddy straw and rice husks, if you can have them, will decompose in about a year and left a very fertile soil behind. They decompose with high temperatures and kill most of the seeds, leaving a dark soil full of earth worms. But you need a lot of husk for this. And the problem still remains on how to establish a ground cover afterwards. New weed seeds will come from the wind and from the birds.



      Venkat Iyer <ivenkat66@...> escreveu:



      >Dear suman,

      >I tried plastic on a small piece of land last season. Here is what i

      >saw.

      >The cover did not let any grass grow under it at all. So in that

      >respect it

      >works. But, no water goes under the sheet and makes that part drier

      >than

      >the other parts. Once the sun hits the plastic it starts crumbling.

      >Leaves

      >a lot of plastic residue behind. Picking these pieces is time consuming

      >and

      >manual effort. After removing the sheet a lot of new weeds start

      >growing in

      >that space. That means that the seeds do survive under the plastic

      >sheet.

      >The soil under the sheet after removing is dry and smells awful. I did

      >not

      >see any insects in that area while the other open areas have a lot of

      >them.

      >The sheet cannot be resused for anything so it works out to be

      >expensive.

      >I had also tried another parallel plot with natural mulch grass and

      >paddy

      >straw. The grass did not grow there so the purpose is served and the

      >mulch

      >decomposed over time. No new weeds were observed in this area and the

      >soil

      >is almost edible.

      >Based on my experience i will not go for plastic cover.

      >

      >On Saturday, March 23, 2013, Sumant Joshi wrote:

      >

      >> **

      >>

      >>

      >> I think most of us who are in any way related to the environmental

      >> movement are allergic to plastic. But then like George Carlin said,

      >plastic

      >> is one of mother Earth's children. If we use tools, scythes, hoes,

      >hammers

      >> etc. why not plastic? I am sure some amount of plastic is there in

      >tool

      >> handles etc. I didn't know chickens eat weeds and what do you do with

      >the

      >> tough poisonous ones?

      >>

      >> Is it a good thing to be fixated with what Fukuoka did? is it

      >necessary to

      >> continuously look back and compare what he did or not? especially

      >when he

      >> himself said,"I realize that I know nothing" meaning IMHO that nature

      >knows

      >> best and we have to follow her and adopt practices which are pointing

      >us in

      >> the right direction.

      >>

      >> these are questions I think we need to think about

      >>

      >> Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

      >>

      >> Warm regards,

      >>

      >> Sumant Joshi

      >> Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

      >>

      >> >________________________________

      >> > From: Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@... <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

      >> 'bigatojj%40gmail.com');>>

      >> >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',

      >> 'fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com');>

      >> >Sent: Saturday, 23 March 2013 5:57 AM

      >> >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the

      >world's

      >> deserts and reverse climate change

      >> >

      >> >

      >> >

      >> >Sumant, I think the plastic is one easy and proven way to weaken the

      >> grasses. Closing chicken in enough number on a plot of land, they'll

      >will

      >> eat all the weeds after some time, except the ones that are toxic to

      >them.

      >> It makes the work quite easier and seems a bit more natural than the

      >> plastic. Then you rotate them to other plot of land while you

      >cultivate the

      >> one previously cleared, hopefully trying to establish some leguminous

      >> ground cover together with your cultures. I will do this later this

      >year.

      >> >

      >> >Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> escreveu:

      >> >

      >> >>Rajuji says," whether you cut the chicken's neck or squeeze it, the

      >end

      >> >>result is the same. Soil fertility depends on the humus matter in

      >it.

      >> >>There is nothing inorganic in a grain of soil. whether you apply

      >> >>tilling or cover it with plastic, she dies. this is violence which

      >is

      >> >>not expected in NF".

      >> >>

      >> >>well, I beg to differ, I have put forward the plastic idea only for

      >the

      >> >>really tough grass. The plastic I think needs to be used for a

      >short

      >> >>period of time and once the grass is gone, it can be replaced with

      >the

      >> >>usual cover crop. I wonder if it makes sense for large areas

      >> >>

      >> >>

      >> >>

      >> >>Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

      >> >>

      >> >>

      >> >>Warm regards,

      >> >>

      >> >>Sumant Joshi

      >> >>Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

      >> >>

      >> >>

      >> >>

      >> >>>________________________________

      >> >>> From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>

      >> >>>To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com

      >> >>>Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013 7:34 PM

      >> >>>Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the

      >> >>world's deserts and reverse climate change

      >> >>>

      >> >>>

      >> >>>

      >> >>>प्रिय सुमंत जी ,

      >> >>>मुर्गी की गर्दन काटे या उसकी गर्दन दबाएँ बात तो एक है। जमीन की

      >ताकत उस

      >> >>में

      >> >>>जीवित जैविक तत्वों पर आधारित है। मिट्टी के कण में अजैविक कुछ भी

      >नहीं

      >> >>है। जब

      >> >>>हम उस में हल चलाते हैं, जहर डालते हैं या उसे प्लास्टिक से ढँक देते

      >हैं

      >> >>तो

      >> >>>वह मर जाती है। ये बहुत बड़ी हिंसा है। फुकुओका फार्मिंग अहिंसा पर

      >> >>आधारित है।

      >> >>>धन्यवाद

      >> >>>राजू

      >> >>>

      >> >>>On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Sumant Joshi

      ><sumant_jo@...>

      >> >>wrote:

      >> >>>

      >> >>>> **

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>> Has anyone thought of cutting and then covering tough weed with

      >> >>cheap

      >> >>>> plastic sheet? should work

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>> Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>> Warm regards,

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>> Sumant Joshi

      >> >>>> Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>> >________________________________

      >> >>>> > From: Daniel Camolês <bigatojj@...>

      >> >>>> >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com

      >> >>>> >Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013 2:49 PM

      >> >>>>

      >> >>>> >Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green

      >the

      >> >>world's

      >> >>>> deserts and reverse climate change

      >> >>>> >

      >> >>>> >

      >> >>>> >

      >> >>>> >Indeed doing mulching the weeds recover much quicker than the

      >> >>culture

      >> >>>> seeds. Cutting grass and sowing in the mulched grass is unfair

      >> >>competition

      >> >>>> and the weeds will always win, because they grow quicker,

      >specially

      >> >>the

      >>

      >>

      ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxb2FtdWViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM1MjA2NjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDQxOTQ3BG1zZ0lkAzE1MjMzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2NDAxMTY3MA--?act=reply&messageNum=15233>

      >>

      >

      >

      >--

      >Regards,

      >

      >Venkat Iyer

      >(Mob) : 9820052606

      >

      >

      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >

      >

      >

      >------------------------------------

      >

      >Yahoo! Groups Links

      >

      >

      >

      --

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • trenthillsmike
      Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding
      Message 112 of 112 , Jun 16, 2013
        Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding the plants. We've been adding plants that mine minerals (lambsquarter, pigweed, yarrow, stinging nettle, red clover, Dutch white clover, etc), attract pollinators all through the growing season, attract predatory insects, confuse pests. Our preference is for perennials or self-seeding annuals and biennials. And we've stopped mowing the orchard although I do selective scything to suppress plants that we don't want. We're very early in the process but we can see some results - https://picasaweb.google.com/PortagePerennials/HolisticOrchard#5888913239729330466

        Regards,
        Mike

        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Adding 6 inch mulch layer around young trees to make them survive summer is an interesting thing. Planning to try this for the mango trees. Last summer was very severe and lost some of the trees. 
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        > Nandan
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