Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change
- The video is not about India - it is about places like The landscapes in
the Video are too poor to support arable farming directly. The cattle are
there to covert inedible grass into fertile and moisture retaining humus
and to build a poor ecosystem up into rich and diverse one - there is the
potential from then on to develop tree growing or even localised grain and
vegetable, but such activities will need a kickstart. The soil shown in
the videos is sterile and subject to erosion in the infrequent rains, and
he presents evidence that the bacterial and mechanical effects of animals
helps remedy this. We already know in other landscapes animal are
NOT necessary to pioneer growth, but by definition these are not marginal
That is the argument, at least, I think .
There an some that say in Western Europe where we
have particularly reliable moist weather coming in from the Atlantic, we
have no need for Mr Savoury. I agree that the video does suffer from a
sensational "Miracle Cure" / promotional video image, but, like Fukouaka
Natural Farming, it is very difficult for those doing something unusual (or
counter to peoples ideas of what is usual) successfully to present it as
anything different. You cant really say - Look - I'm doing something
different to what everyone thinks is normal, and it works, but is quite
ordinary really - well, he does actually say that, but everyone else still
see it a some kind of miracle because it challenges our perception of
normal. Every time someone posts up evidence of a successful non-tillage
cultivation on this list it appears to me to be a miracle, because I was
taught that Farmers must "Plough the Field and scatter" . Its even
embodied in a Christian Hymn, ie over the centuries the Plough
has acquired an iconic significance - nowadays ploughing is a triumph of
Faith over Reason. Non tillage is entirely reasonable *when and if one
can stop to think about it*. Likewise I have personal difficulty taking on
Alan's thesis, but if the evidence is there and if it is to be believed, I
must stop, think, and adjust my prejudices.
There are differences between animals in the way they graze, their
footprints and the quality of their manure. Cows take mouthfuls of long
grass and sheep and horses nip it right down to the roots . Goats are a
no-no if you like trees. The type of grazing will affect the eventual
sward and even physically shape the landscape - in the cases AS was
showing, cows weren't let loose to freely graze around, they were herded in
tightly controlled groups and then moved on, allowing a vegetable ecology
to flourish then the cycle repeated at an appropriate rate. This is
similar to one aspect of standard management in areas where livestock is
dominant - in the UK and Ireland we let grow first then graze to encourage
a healthy root mass which will recover quickly from grazing. Areas where
(say) sheep are allowed to wander freely do in fact tend to a desert - the
sheep nibble everything right down and they keep it down. Whole areas of
Scotland, Wales and Ireland have been ruined by poorly managed sheep, and
would benefit from being fenced into smaller fields and rotated with other
crops and trees. Under current econimjc conditions this is not always
possible, but I argue that not doing it is the poorest investment one can
Graze to frequently, and you go back to Desert, don't graze enough, you end
up with Forest. Get it right and you end up with a healthy balance
suitable for human habitation and the development of a sustainable
On 16 March 2013 09:05, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...> wrote:
> Good point Sumant.
> Why raise cattle when you don't eat beef?
> Why raise cattle if they can't have their fill?
> Dung is given by other animals, too.
> Now if you can't live without fastfood beef burgers...think again, in
> Europe there's a big scandal about horse meat being passed off as beef.
> Horse meat is lean and presumably healthy but it should not be labelled
> wrongly. However that is another consumer issue, isn't it?
> 2013/3/16 Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
> > **
> > This is what I mean by looking at any "one shop stop" kinda solution for
> > anything. Here in India, village people have a policy of ax ban and
> > ban in various parts of local forests in cycles which might be from 3 to
> > years and it works very well. That is the time required for new saplings
> > start off and become sturdy enough to withstand cattle attack. There is
> > course the issue of why people have cattle in the first place. Indians
> > don't eat beef except a very few and their cattle produce very less milk.
> > There also the issue of spending time looking after them which can be
> > better spent on looking after their fields. But then habit is a dangerous
> > thing. Yes the cattle give dung which is used in many many ways.
> > see? there are lots of issues to be considered.
> > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
> > Warm regards,
> > Sumant Joshi
> > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
> > >________________________________
> > > From: Paulo Bessa <pcbessa@...>
> > >To: email@example.com
> > >Sent: Friday, 15 March 2013 6:35 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to gree
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding the plants. We've been adding plants that mine minerals (lambsquarter, pigweed, yarrow, stinging nettle, red clover, Dutch white clover, etc), attract pollinators all through the growing season, attract predatory insects, confuse pests. Our preference is for perennials or self-seeding annuals and biennials. And we've stopped mowing the orchard although I do selective scything to suppress plants that we don't want. We're very early in the process but we can see some results - https://picasaweb.google.com/PortagePerennials/HolisticOrchard#5888913239729330466
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
> Adding 6 inch mulch layer around young trees to make them survive summer is an interesting thing. Planning to try this for the mango trees. Last summer was very severe and lost some of the trees.Â