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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change

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  • Sumant Joshi
    Very well covered Daniel. there are too many holes in this theory which makes it impractical Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards, Sumant Joshi Tel -
    Message 1 of 112 , Mar 14, 2013
      Very well covered Daniel. there are too many holes in this theory which makes it impractical




      Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


      Warm regards,

      Sumant Joshi
      Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



      >________________________________
      > From: Daniel <dfjager@...>
      >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 4:48 PM
      >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change
      >
      >

      >It is too simplistic.
      >
      >1) Read "Lowdermilk - Conquest of the Land through 7000 years" available on soil and health library. There is a clear pattern all over the world between overgrazing and desertification. First come the cows, than the sheep, finally the goats, and then the desert (to put it short).
      >
      >2) Migrating herds seems more natural in such semi-arid areas, but this answer is also too simplistic. What about land-ownership? What about managing such large herds? What about cattle ownership? Whose cattle will it be? Whose land will they be grazing on? For how long? Who decides these things? Who will get the profit of the sale of the cattle for meat? How is this at all possible to organize on any practical scale? All questions that this Alan Savory does not address in his TED talk. Seems like a very big drawback to me!
      >
      >3) His observations after trials with migrating cattle may be correct. His conclusions, however, may be far off.
      >Repeated fire and overgrazing will diminish the seed diversity lying dormant in the soil. The potential of plants to re-establish themselves after fire and overgrazing is stopped is very limited or may require many many years until birds have brought in more diverse seeds again.
      >When a herd is introduced that has migrated over great distances it is highly likely that they have eaten a wide variety of grasses and tree leaves (including their seeds). Now they migrate to a 'seed impoverished' area, and shit all over the place. Hey presto, seed diversity has been raised, and a more diverse selection of grass species and pioneer tree species has a change to establish. There are bound to be some among those introduced seeds that find the particular soil, climate, etc very favorable and they will grow rapidly into young trees and good new grass cover.
      >
      >4) Look up 'Greening the Desert' on youtube. A Permaculture project in Jordan, where they were able to re-establish a green cover of hardy fruit trees in one of the most arid regions on the globe. Without the use of a single grazing animal.
      >
      >Daniel
      >
      >--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hi Alan,
      >>
      >> I have seen this video and somehow think it seems a bit too simplistic. I mean is it applicable to ALL kinds of environments and terrain? I feel one of the main reasons at the place I live in, cattle are the enemy number one of forest rejuvenation. They just don't allow any new growth from existing trees. Maybe he is just talking of grasslands
      >>
      >>
      >> Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
      >>
      >>
      >> Warm regards,
      >>
      >> Sumant Joshi
      >> Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> >________________________________
      >> > From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>
      >> >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      >> >Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2013 2:36 PM
      >> >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > 
      >> >
      >> >http://network.coull.com/activatevideo?video_provider_id=2&pid=8165&website_id=9871&width=640&height=390&video_provider_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/embed/vpTHi7O66pI%3Fversion%3D3%26rel%3D1%26fs%3D1%26showsearch%3D0%26showinfo%3D1%26iv_load_policy%3D1%26wmode%3Dtransparent&mobile=true&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwattsupwiththat.com%2F2013%2F03%2F08%2Fa-bridge-in-the-climate-debate-how-to-green-the-worlds-deserts-and-reverse-climate-change%2F
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
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      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • trenthillsmike
      Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding
      Message 112 of 112 , Jun 16, 2013
        Not only does it retain moisture but the mulch rots down into compost and improves fertility. I think that feeding the soil is a much better idea than feeding the plants. We've been adding plants that mine minerals (lambsquarter, pigweed, yarrow, stinging nettle, red clover, Dutch white clover, etc), attract pollinators all through the growing season, attract predatory insects, confuse pests. Our preference is for perennials or self-seeding annuals and biennials. And we've stopped mowing the orchard although I do selective scything to suppress plants that we don't want. We're very early in the process but we can see some results - https://picasaweb.google.com/PortagePerennials/HolisticOrchard#5888913239729330466

        Regards,
        Mike

        --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Adding 6 inch mulch layer around young trees to make them survive summer is an interesting thing. Planning to try this for the mango trees. Last summer was very severe and lost some of the trees. 
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        > Nandan
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