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Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?

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  • Anant Joglekar
      anant joglekar 9423089706 The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
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      anant joglekar
      9423089706

      The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka


      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      >From: Gautam Mhaisalkar <dada_mhaisalkar@...>
      >To: Anil Pendse <arpendse@...>; Angeline <nesya2003@...>; nitin bawle <nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar <bhagwat@...>; bharathi char <bharathi.char@...>; milind bhagwat <milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis <Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar <gr8warrier@...>; Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi <asm1955@...>; aditya <adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse <devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya <paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni <kulkarni.jayant@...>; jayeshbhavna <jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep <jaideep@...>; Vilas Karhade <vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar <shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar <neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA SANJEEV <megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai <capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar <mukundkasar@...>; Priya Subodh
      <mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU <pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar <smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar <pghatnekar1511@...>; pandurang nawkar <pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar <kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare <knowelladv@...>; Shreeram Sabnis <shreeram28@...>; satish shende <satishvshende@...>; wshirish11 <wshirish@...>
      >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
      >Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
      >Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
      >To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@..., docvirajp@...
      >Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >>________________________________
      > Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
      >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
      >From: goyal.sudhir@...
      >To:
      >CC: goyal.sudhir@...
      >
      >
      >How true …………..
      >Scathing
      >Thought Provoking !!!
      >A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
      >Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
      >
      >
      >Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
      >Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is everywhere...
      >Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
      >No race can be congenitally corrupt.
      >But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
      >To know why Indians are corrupt ,
      >look at their patterns and practices .
      >First:
      >Religion is transactional in India.
      >Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
      >Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
      >In the world outside the temple walls,
      >such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
      >A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
      >but gold crowns and such baubles.
      >His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
      >He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
      >In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45 crore to Tirupati.
      >India’s temples collect so much that
      >they don't know what to do with it.
      >Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
      >When Europeans came to India they built schools.
      >When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
      >Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is wrong in doing the same thing.
      >This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
      >Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
      >There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
      >Second -
      >Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
      >Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
      >This is unique to India.
      >Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
      >It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient Greece and modern Europe.
      >The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
      >In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
      >Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
      >Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
      >Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
      >There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
      >Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
      >Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
      >The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after receiving a bribe.
      >There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in treason due to bribery.
      >Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother 'civilized' nations don't?
      >Third -
      >Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
      >Their caste system separates them.
      >They don't believe that all men are equal.
      >This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
      >Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many converted to Christianity and Islam.
      >The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
      >There are no Indians in India ,there are
      >Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
      >Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
      >This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
      >The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
      >In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he must be bribed.
      >
      >
      >-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
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      >
      >Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
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      >
      ----------



      -----------------------------------------------------
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      !-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • yajnesh shetty
      And what does this POS have to do with natural farming? ________________________________ ________________________________ From: Anant Joglekar
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        And what does this POS have to do with natural farming?

        ________________________________



        ________________________________
        From: Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...>
        To: Save India From Corruption <contact@...>; "craftshweta@..." <craftshweta@...>; Solar Pump <crescent.rafiq@...>; "crm@..." <crm@...>; "customer.service@..." <customer.service@...>; "cybercell@..." <cybercell@...>; Cyber Crime Monitoring Cell <cybercrimecell@...>; Gautam Mhaisalkar <dada_mhaisalkar@...>; Raut Saheb Social Forestry <dcr1155@...>; Uzramma Vimala Jagan <dcydastkar@...>; Deepak Suchde <deepaksuchde@...>; ivrcl dehani project <dehanilisy@...>; Devyani Joshi <deoyani@...>; Devashree Phadke <devashreep@...>; Devdatta.Pendse <devdatta.pendse@...>; "dhanadapotnis@..." <dhanadapotnis@...>; "dinesh_oke@... Oke" <dinesh_oke@...>; "dinesh_risbud@..." <dinesh_risbud@...>; Dr S.P.S. Khanuja <director@...>; Director KFRI
        <director@...>; "dironagpur@..." <dironagpur@...>; Dr. Sudhirkumar Goel <divcom_amravati@...>; Dr Sudhirkumar Goel <divcom_amravati@...>; DR.ARYA JAIDEEP <divyayoga.drarya@...>; भारत स्वाभिमान अभियान bharat swabhimaan abhiyan <divyayoga@...>; Dr Soman JISL Jain Irrigation Systems Ltd. <dr.soman@...>; Drjyoti Gupte <drjyotigupte@...>; Dr Praveen Togadiya <drptvhp@...>; eBay <ebay@...>; Ravi Thate <ecoagro@...>; "ecofarms_yml@..." <ecofarms_yml@...>; Esha Sen <eshasenguptadethe@...>; IRCTC HELP DESK <etickets@...>; The Economic Times <etyoungleaders@...>; "executivedirectoraci@..." <executivedirectoraci@...>; "farming_naturally@yahoogroups.com" <farming_naturally@yahoogroups.com>; Jai Dongare <flower.jai@...>; "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com"
        <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>; G Sudhakar ITC Ltd <G.Sudhakar@...>; Anjali Gadre <gadre_anjali@...>; Mohan Gadre <gadre_mohan@...>; Gajanan Kashalkar <gajanan_kashalkar@...>; Radhika Ganu <ganuradhika@...>; "gaurav.hombali@..." <gaurav.hombali@...>; Gauri Parkhi <gaurimparkhi@...>; Gayatri Gadre <gayatri_gadre@...>; Dr. Shrikar Pardeshi <geetashrikar@...>; G. G. Hegde <gghegde@...>; "gmtraffic@..." <gmtraffic@...>; Bhal Patankar <gr8warrier@...>; Grievance Cell Passport PRO <grv.jscpv@...>; Kaustubh Gupte <gupte.kaustubh@...>; Harshal Bhawalkar <h.bhawalkar@...>; Harshada Chavan <harshada_chavan007@...>; Harshita Joglekar <harshita_ok@...>; Hemant Karnik <hemantkarnik@...>; "hemantkulkarni2012@..." <hemantkulkarni2012@...>; Himanshu Jaiswal <himanshudjaiswal@...>; HINDU VOICE
        <hinduvoicemumbai@...>; Hrishikesh Pendse <hrishikesh.pendse@...>; SBI NET BANKING FEED BACK <ibanking@...>; IBRM <ibrm.co@...>; Axis Bank <ibrm@...>; PNB NET BANKING <ibshelpdesk@...>; PUNJAB NATIONAL BANK RETAIL I B Section <ibsretail@...>; "ICRISAT@..." <ICRISAT@...>; CITIZEN Forum <india.suffers@...>; Indian Goat Farm <indiangoatfarm@...>; SHRIKANT DESHPANDE <institutions.all@...>; Axis Bank <internet.banking@...>; Punjab National Bank Net Banking Section <itdibs@...>; "iwstacmr@..." <iwstacmr@...>; J.A.C.S. Rao <jacs_rao@...>; Jayant Karnik <jayant.karnik@...>; Dr Jose <jkallara@...>; Chhaya Joglekar <joglekararvind@...>; Kaustubh Joglekar <joglekarkaustubh@...>; JOGLEKAR KULAVRUTTANT SAMITI <joglekarkul@...>; "joglekarmaitra@..." <joglekarmaitra@...>; Richa Joglekar <joglekarricha@...>;
        Neil Joglekar <joneil73@...>; hyderabad dosco j r d rao <jrdrao@...>; Viraj Kapate <kapateviru18@...>
        Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:03 PM
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?


         


         
        anant joglekar
        9423089706

        The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka

        ----- Forwarded Message -----
        >From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
        >To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>; nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>; milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>; Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>; jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>; Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya Subodh
        mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>; pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>; wshirish11 wshirish@...>
        >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
        >Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
        >Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
        >To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@..., docvirajp@...
        >Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >>________________________________
        > Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
        >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
        >From: goyal.sudhir@...
        >To:
        >CC: goyal.sudhir@...
        >
        >
        >How true …………..
        >Scathing
        >Thought Provoking !!!
        >A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
        >Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
        >
        >
        >Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
        >Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is everywhere...
        >Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
        >No race can be congenitally corrupt.
        >But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
        >To know why Indians are corrupt ,
        >look at their patterns and practices .
        >First:
        >Religion is transactional in India.
        >Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
        >Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
        >In the world outside the temple walls,
        >such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
        >A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
        >but gold crowns and such baubles.
        >His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
        >He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
        >In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45 crore to Tirupati.
        >India’s temples collect so much that
        >they don't know what to do with it.
        >Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
        >When Europeans came to India they built schools.
        >When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
        >Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is wrong in doing the same thing.
        >This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
        >Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
        >There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
        >Second -
        >Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
        >Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
        >This is unique to India.
        >Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
        >It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient Greece and modern Europe.
        >The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
        >In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
        >Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
        >Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
        >Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
        >There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
        >Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
        >Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
        >The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after receiving a bribe.
        >There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in treason due to bribery.
        >Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother 'civilized' nations don't?
        >Third -
        >Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
        >Their caste system separates them.
        >They don't believe that all men are equal.
        >This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
        >Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many converted to Christianity and Islam.
        >The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
        >There are no Indians in India ,there are
        >Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
        >Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
        >This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
        >The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
        >In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he must be bribed.
        >
        >
        >-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
        >
        >
        >Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
        >
        >
        ----------

        -----------------------------------------------------
        K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India

        !-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anant Joglekar
        I am sorry for the wrong posting. Please excuse me. anant joglekar 9423089706 The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          I am sorry for the wrong posting.
          Please excuse me.


          anant joglekar


          9423089706

          The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka



          >________________________________
          > From: yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...>
          >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 3:16 PM
          >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
          >
          >

          >
          >
          >And what does this POS have to do with natural farming?
          >
          >________________________________
          >
          >________________________________
          >From: Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>
          >To: Save India From Corruption contact@...@..." craftshweta@...>; Solar Pump crescent.rafiq@...@..." crm@...@..." customer.service@...@..." cybercell@...>; Cyber Crime Monitoring Cell cybercrimecell@...>; Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>; Raut Saheb Social Forestry dcr1155@...>; Uzramma Vimala Jagan dcydastkar@...>; Deepak Suchde deepaksuchde@...>; ivrcl dehani project dehanilisy@...>; Devyani Joshi deoyani@...>; Devashree Phadke devashreep@...>; Devdatta.Pendse devdatta.pendse@...@..." dhanadapotnis@..._oke@... Oke" dinesh_oke@..._risbud@..." dinesh_risbud@...>; Dr S.P.S. Khanuja director@...>; Director KFRI
          >director@...@..." dironagpur@...>; Dr. Sudhirkumar Goel divcom_amravati@...>; Dr Sudhirkumar Goel divcom_amravati@...>; DR.ARYA JAIDEEP divyayoga.drarya@...>; भारत स्वाभिमान अभियान bharat swabhimaan abhiyan divyayoga@...>; Dr Soman JISL Jain Irrigation Systems Ltd. dr.soman@...>; Drjyoti Gupte drjyotigupte@...>; Dr Praveen Togadiya drptvhp@...>; eBay ebay@...>; Ravi Thate ecoagro@..._yml@..." ecofarms_yml@...>; Esha Sen eshasenguptadethe@...>; IRCTC HELP DESK etickets@...>; The Economic Times etyoungleaders@...@..." executivedirectoraci@..._naturally@yahoogroups.com" farming_naturally@yahoogroups.com>; Jai Dongare flower.jai@..._farming@yahoogroups.com"
          >fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>; G Sudhakar ITC Ltd G.Sudhakar@...>; Anjali Gadre gadre_anjali@...>; Mohan Gadre gadre_mohan@...>; Gajanan Kashalkar gajanan_kashalkar@...>; Radhika Ganu ganuradhika@...@..." gaurav.hombali@...>; Gauri Parkhi gaurimparkhi@...>; Gayatri Gadre gayatri_gadre@...>; Dr. Shrikar Pardeshi geetashrikar@...>; G. G. Hegde gghegde@...@..." gmtraffic@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>; Grievance Cell Passport PRO grv.jscpv@...>; Kaustubh Gupte gupte.kaustubh@...>; Harshal Bhawalkar h.bhawalkar@...>; Harshada Chavan harshada_chavan007@...>; Harshita Joglekar harshita_ok@...>; Hemant Karnik hemantkarnik@...2012@..." hemantkulkarni2012@...>; Himanshu Jaiswal himanshudjaiswal@...>; HINDU VOICE
          >hinduvoicemumbai@...>; Hrishikesh Pendse hrishikesh.pendse@...>; SBI NET BANKING FEED BACK ibanking@...>; IBRM ibrm.co@...>; Axis Bank ibrm@...>; PNB NET BANKING ibshelpdesk@...>; PUNJAB NATIONAL BANK RETAIL I B Section ibsretail@...@..." ICRISAT@...>; CITIZEN Forum india.suffers@...>; Indian Goat Farm indiangoatfarm@...>; SHRIKANT DESHPANDE institutions.all@...>; Axis Bank internet.banking@...>; Punjab National Bank Net Banking Section itdibs@...@..." iwstacmr@...>; J.A.C.S. Rao jacs_rao@...>; Jayant Karnik jayant.karnik@...>; Dr Jose jkallara@...>; Chhaya Joglekar joglekararvind@...>; Kaustubh Joglekar joglekarkaustubh@...>; JOGLEKAR KULAVRUTTANT SAMITI joglekarkul@...@..." joglekarmaitra@...>; Richa Joglekar joglekarricha@...>;
          >Neil Joglekar joneil73@...>; hyderabad dosco j r d rao jrdrao@...>; Viraj Kapate kapateviru18@...>
          >Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:03 PM
          >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
          >
          >

          >

          >anant joglekar
          >9423089706
          >
          >The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka
          >
          >----- Forwarded Message -----
          >>From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
          >>To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>; nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>; milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>; Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>; jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>; Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya Subodh
          >mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>; pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>; wshirish11 wshirish@...>
          >>Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
          >>Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
          >>Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
          >>To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@..., docvirajp@...
          >>Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>>________________________________
          >> Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
          >>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
          >>From: goyal.sudhir@...
          >>To:
          >>CC: goyal.sudhir@...
          >>
          >>
          >>How true …………..
          >>Scathing
          >>Thought Provoking !!!
          >>A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
          >>Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
          >>
          >>
          >>Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
          >>Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is everywhere...
          >>Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
          >>No race can be congenitally corrupt.
          >>But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
          >>To know why Indians are corrupt ,
          >>look at their patterns and practices .
          >>First:
          >>Religion is transactional in India.
          >>Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
          >>Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
          >>In the world outside the temple walls,
          >>such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
          >>A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
          >>but gold crowns and such baubles.
          >>His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
          >>He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
          >>In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45 crore to Tirupati.
          >>India’s temples collect so much that
          >>they don't know what to do with it.
          >>Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
          >>When Europeans came to India they built schools.
          >>When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
          >>Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is wrong in doing the same thing.
          >>This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
          >>Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
          >>There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
          >>Second -
          >>Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
          >>Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
          >>This is unique to India.
          >>Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
          >>It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient Greece and modern Europe.
          >>The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
          >>In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
          >>Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
          >>Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
          >>Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
          >>There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
          >>Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
          >>Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
          >>The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after receiving a bribe.
          >>There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in treason due to bribery.
          >>Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother 'civilized' nations don't?
          >>Third -
          >>Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
          >>Their caste system separates them.
          >>They don't believe that all men are equal.
          >>This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
          >>Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many converted to Christianity and Islam.
          >>The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
          >>There are no Indians in India ,there are
          >>Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
          >>Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
          >>This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
          >>The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
          >>In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he must be bribed.
          >>
          >>
          >>-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
          >>
          >>
          >>Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
          >>
          >>
          >----------
          >
          >-----------------------------------------------------
          >K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India
          >
          >!-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • yajnesh shetty
          I too apologise for my knee jerk reply ,Anantji.                                                    Regards,
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            I too apologise for my knee jerk reply ,Anantji.
                                                               Regards,
                                                                   Yaj.



            ________________________________
            From: Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...>
            To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:37 PM
            Subject: I am sorry for the wrong posting. Please excuse me. Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?


             
            I am sorry for the wrong posting.
            Please excuse me.

            anant joglekar

            9423089706

            The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka

            >________________________________
            > From: yajnesh shetty yajnesh@...>
            >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 3:16 PM
            >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
            >
            >

            >
            >
            >And what does this POS have to do with natural farming?
            >
            >________________________________
            >
            >________________________________
            >From: Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>
            >To: Save India From Corruption contact@...@..." craftshweta@...>; Solar Pump crescent.rafiq@...@..." crm@...@..." customer.service@...@..." cybercell@...>; Cyber Crime Monitoring Cell cybercrimecell@...>; Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>; Raut Saheb Social Forestry dcr1155@...>; Uzramma Vimala Jagan dcydastkar@...>; Deepak Suchde deepaksuchde@...>; ivrcl dehani project dehanilisy@...>; Devyani Joshi deoyani@...>; Devashree Phadke devashreep@...>; Devdatta.Pendse devdatta.pendse@...@..." dhanadapotnis@..._oke@... Oke" dinesh_oke@..._risbud@..._risbud@...>; Dr S.P.S. Khanuja director@...>; Director KFRI
            >director@...@..." dironagpur@...>; Dr. Sudhirkumar Goel divcom_amravati@...>; Dr Sudhirkumar Goel divcom_amravati@...>; DR.ARYA JAIDEEP divyayoga.drarya@...>; भारत स्वाभिमान अभियान bharat swabhimaan abhiyan divyayoga@...>; Dr Soman JISL Jain Irrigation Systems Ltd. dr.soman@...>; Drjyoti Gupte drjyotigupte@...>; Dr Praveen Togadiya drptvhp@...>; eBay ebay@...>; Ravi Thate ecoagro@..._yml@..._yml@...>; Esha Sen eshasenguptadethe@...>; IRCTC HELP DESK etickets@...>; The Economic Times etyoungleaders@...@..." executivedirectoraci@..._naturally@yahoogroups.comfarming_naturally@yahoogroups.com>; Jai Dongare flower.jai@..._farming@yahoogroups.comfukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>; G Sudhakar
            ITC Ltd G.Sudhakar@...>; Anjali Gadre gadre_anjali@...>; Mohan Gadre gadre_mohan@...>; Gajanan Kashalkar gajanan_kashalkar@...>; Radhika Ganu ganuradhika@...@..." gaurav.hombali@...>; Gauri Parkhi gaurimparkhi@...>; Gayatri Gadre gayatri_gadre@...>; Dr. Shrikar Pardeshi geetashrikar@...>; G. G. Hegde gghegde@...@..." gmtraffic@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>; Grievance Cell Passport PRO grv.jscpv@...>; Kaustubh Gupte gupte.kaustubh@...>; Harshal Bhawalkar h.bhawalkar@...>; Harshada Chavan harshada_chavan007@...>; Harshita Joglekar harshita_ok@...>; Hemant Karnik hemantkarnik@...2012@..." hemantkulkarni2012@...>; Himanshu Jaiswal himanshudjaiswal@...>; HINDU VOICE
            >hinduvoicemumbai@...>; Hrishikesh Pendse hrishikesh.pendse@...>; SBI NET BANKING FEED BACK ibanking@...>; IBRM ibrm.co@...>; Axis Bank ibrm@...>; PNB NET BANKING ibshelpdesk@...>; PUNJAB NATIONAL BANK RETAIL I B Section ibsretail@...@..." ICRISAT@...>; CITIZEN Forum india.suffers@...>; Indian Goat Farm indiangoatfarm@...>; SHRIKANT DESHPANDE institutions.all@...>; Axis Bank internet.banking@...>; Punjab National Bank Net Banking Section itdibs@...@..." iwstacmr@...>; J.A.C.S. Rao jacs_rao@...>; Jayant Karnik jayant.karnik@...>; Dr Jose jkallara@...>; Chhaya Joglekar joglekararvind@...>; Kaustubh Joglekar joglekarkaustubh@...>; JOGLEKAR KULAVRUTTANT SAMITI joglekarkul@...@..." joglekarmaitra@...>; Richa Joglekar joglekarricha@...>;
            >Neil Joglekar joneil73@...>; hyderabad dosco j r d rao jrdrao@...>; Viraj Kapate kapateviru18@...>
            >Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:03 PM
            >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
            >
            >

            >

            >anant joglekar
            >9423089706
            >
            >The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka
            >
            >----- Forwarded Message -----
            >>From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
            >>To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>; nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>; milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>; Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>; jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>; Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya Subodh
            >mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>; pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>; wshirish11 wshirish@...>
            >>Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
            >>Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
            >>Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
            >>To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@..., docvirajp@...
            >>Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>________________________________
            >> Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
            >>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
            >>From: goyal.sudhir@...
            >>To:
            >>CC: goyal.sudhir@...
            >>
            >>
            >>How true …………..
            >>Scathing
            >>Thought Provoking !!!
            >>A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
            >>Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
            >>
            >>
            >>Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
            >>Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is everywhere...
            >>Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
            >>No race can be congenitally corrupt.
            >>But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
            >>To know why Indians are corrupt ,
            >>look at their patterns and practices .
            >>First:
            >>Religion is transactional in India.
            >>Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
            >>Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
            >>In the world outside the temple walls,
            >>such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
            >>A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
            >>but gold crowns and such baubles.
            >>His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
            >>He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
            >>In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45 crore to Tirupati.
            >>India’s temples collect so much that
            >>they don't know what to do with it.
            >>Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
            >>When Europeans came to India they built schools.
            >>When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
            >>Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is wrong in doing the same thing.
            >>This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
            >>Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
            >>There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
            >>Second -
            >>Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
            >>Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
            >>This is unique to India.
            >>Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
            >>It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient Greece and modern Europe.
            >>The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
            >>In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
            >>Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
            >>Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
            >>Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
            >>There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
            >>Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
            >>Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
            >>The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after receiving a bribe.
            >>There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in treason due to bribery.
            >>Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother 'civilized' nations don't?
            >>Third -
            >>Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
            >>Their caste system separates them.
            >>They don't believe that all men are equal.
            >>This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
            >>Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many converted to Christianity and Islam.
            >>The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
            >>There are no Indians in India ,there are
            >>Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
            >>Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
            >>This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
            >>The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
            >>In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he must be bribed.
            >>
            >>
            >>-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
            >>
            >>
            >>Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here
            >>
            >>
            >----------
            >
            >-----------------------------------------------------
            >K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India
            >
            >!-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Alan Sloan
            ... Accidents are sometimes thought provoking. Natural Farming is an extremely logical and rational response to a whole set of global problems. As such it
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              > >And what does this POS have to do with natural farming?


              Accidents are sometimes thought provoking.

              Natural Farming is an extremely logical and rational response to a whole
              set of global problems. As such it should be given a lot of attention by
              policy makers and mainstream food growers.

              The failure to do this is one symptom of intellectual, scientific and
              economic corruption.

              Apologies for taking this a step further than it need go.....


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Alan Sloan
              Anant, The insight in this post is completely new to me! It has changed my whole view of the word corruption. Thanks for reposting this to the NF group, no
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Anant,
                The insight in this post is completely new to me! It has changed my whole
                view of the word corruption.
                Thanks for reposting this to the NF group, no matter what is said about it
                being off-topic.
                Some accidents are quire happy ones.
                Alan




                On 11 January 2013 08:33, Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > anant joglekar
                > 9423089706
                >
                > The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the
                > cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka
                >
                > ----- Forwarded Message -----
                > >From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
                > >To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>;
                > nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar
                > bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>;
                > milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis
                > Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>;
                > Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi
                > asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse
                > devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya
                > paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>;
                > jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>;
                > Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar
                > shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA
                > SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai
                > capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya
                > Subodh
                > mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar
                > smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>;
                > pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar
                > kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram
                > Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>;
                > wshirish11 wshirish@...>
                > >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
                > >Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
                > >Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
                > >To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@...,
                > docvirajp@...
                > >Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >>________________________________
                > > Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                > >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
                > >From: goyal.sudhir@...
                > >To:
                > >CC: goyal.sudhir@...
                > >
                > >
                > >How true ����..
                > >Scathing
                > >Thought Provoking !!!
                > >A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
                > >Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
                > >
                > >
                > >Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
                > >Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is
                > everywhere...
                > >Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
                > >No race can be congenitally corrupt.
                > >But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
                > >To know why Indians are corrupt ,
                > >look at their patterns and practices .
                > >First:
                > >Religion is transactional in India.
                > >Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
                > >Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
                > >In the world outside the temple walls,
                > >such a transaction is named- �bribe�.
                > >A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
                > >but gold crowns and such baubles.
                > >His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
                > >He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
                > >In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka
                > ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45
                > crore to Tirupati.
                > >India�s temples collect so much that
                > >they don't know what to do with it.
                > >Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
                > >When Europeans came to India they built schools.
                > >When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
                > >Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is
                > wrong in doing the same thing.
                > >This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
                > >Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
                > >There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a
                > comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
                > >Second -
                > >Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
                > >Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after
                > guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
                > >This is unique to India.
                > >Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
                > >It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient
                > Greece and modern Europe.
                > >The Turks� battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
                > >In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
                > >Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India�s kings,no
                > matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
                > >Little resistance was given by the Indians at the �Battle� of Plassey.
                > >Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
                > >There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
                > >Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
                > >Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
                > >The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh�s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after
                > receiving a bribe.
                > >There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in
                > treason due to bribery.
                > >Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother
                > 'civilized' nations don't?
                > >Third -
                > >Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of
                > them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
                > >Their caste system separates them.
                > >They don't believe that all men are equal.
                > >This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
                > >Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many
                > converted to Christianity and Islam.
                > >The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
                > >There are no Indians in India ,there are
                > >Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
                > >Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
                > >This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
                > >The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
                > >In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God �and even he
                > must be bribed.
                > >
                > >
                > >-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship
                > Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using
                > AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
                > >
                > >
                > >Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for
                > FREE, click here
                > >
                > >
                > ----------
                >
                > -----------------------------------------------------
                > K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India
                >
                > !-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal
                > Engine --!
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • yajnesh shetty
                Alan this article is just a hatchet job made to look like soul searching. Every culture has had their Benedict Arnolds and Guy Fawkes.Do you really believe
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Alan this article is just a hatchet job made to look like soul searching.
                  Every culture has had their Benedict Arnolds and Guy Fawkes.Do you really believe that the Mughals took over India by bribing Indians? The Indian kings at the time were far more wealthy. And bribes during warfare was a widely used tactic even in the West as well as the far East. You need to take a better look at the history of the world if you believe that.
                  Bribes ,ransoms  marriages were common in settling warfare any where in the world.But to look at only these3 few cases and to overlook all the other numerous heroic figures in Indian history is ridiculous.
                  As for money and offerings in religious practices, this again has been seen throughout history in almost every religion around the world.Where do you thing the Vatican's fabulous wealth comes from.the Church used to sell blessings,relics,favours and even play broker and/or king maker between warring states in Europe.
                  There are plenty of things wrong with present India but to besmirch a whole culture and people as this article attempts to do is downright malicious.Anybody taking this jokers word for it is pretty naive.
                                                                                                               Regards,
                                                                                                                 Yaj.




                  ________________________________
                  From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:04 PM
                  Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?

                  Anant,
                  The insight in this post is completely new to me!  It has changed my whole
                  view of the word corruption.
                  Thanks for reposting this to the NF group, no matter what is said about it
                  being off-topic.
                  Some accidents are quire happy ones.
                  Alan




                  On 11 January 2013 08:33, Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > anant joglekar
                  > 9423089706
                  >
                  > The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the
                  > cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka
                  >
                  > ----- Forwarded Message -----
                  > >From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
                  > >To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>;
                  > nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar
                  > bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>;
                  > milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis
                  > Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>;
                  > Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi
                  > asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse
                  > devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya
                  > paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>;
                  > jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>;
                  > Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar
                  > shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA
                  > SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai
                  > capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya
                  > Subodh
                  > mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar
                  > smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>;
                  > pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar
                  > kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram
                  > Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>;
                  > wshirish11 wshirish@...>
                  > >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
                  > >Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
                  > >Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
                  > >To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@...,
                  > docvirajp@...
                  > >Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >>________________________________
                  > > Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                  > >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
                  > >From: goyal.sudhir@...
                  > >To:
                  > >CC: goyal.sudhir@...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >How true …………..
                  > >Scathing
                  > >Thought Provoking !!!
                  > >A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
                  > >Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
                  > >Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is
                  > everywhere...
                  > >Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
                  > >No race can be congenitally corrupt.
                  > >But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
                  > >To know why Indians are corrupt ,
                  > >look at their patterns and practices .
                  > >First:
                  > >Religion is transactional in India.
                  > >Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
                  > >Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
                  > >In the world outside the temple walls,
                  > >such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
                  > >A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
                  > >but gold crowns and such baubles.
                  > >His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
                  > >He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
                  > >In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka
                  > ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45
                  > crore to Tirupati.
                  > >India’s temples collect so much that
                  > >they don't know what to do with it.
                  > >Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
                  > >When Europeans came to India they built schools.
                  > >When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
                  > >Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is
                  > wrong in doing the same thing.
                  > >This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
                  > >Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
                  > >There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a
                  > comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
                  > >Second -
                  > >Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
                  > >Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after
                  > guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
                  > >This is unique to India.
                  > >Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
                  > >It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient
                  > Greece and modern Europe.
                  > >The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
                  > >In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
                  > >Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no
                  > matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
                  > >Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
                  > >Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
                  > >There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
                  > >Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
                  > >Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
                  > >The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after
                  > receiving a bribe.
                  > >There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in
                  > treason due to bribery.
                  > >Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother
                  > 'civilized' nations don't?
                  > >Third -
                  > >Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of
                  > them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
                  > >Their caste system separates them.
                  > >They don't believe that all men are equal.
                  > >This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
                  > >Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many
                  > converted to Christianity and Islam.
                  > >The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
                  > >There are no Indians in India ,there are
                  > >Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
                  > >Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
                  > >This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
                  > >The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
                  > >In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he
                  > must be bribed.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship
                  > Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using
                  > AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for
                  > FREE, click here
                  > >
                  > >
                  > ----------
                  >
                  > -----------------------------------------------------
                  > K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India
                  >
                  > !-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal
                  > Engine --!
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Anant Joglekar
                  Thanks Alan ! we are a global group and should always think globally from humanity perspective. Actually where ever Religion is concerned we find we all are
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Alan ! we are a global group and should always think globally from humanity perspective. Actually where ever Religion is concerned we find we all are sailing in the same boat.


                     
                    anant joglekar
                    9423089706

                    The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka



                    >________________________________
                    > From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>
                    >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 5:04 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                    >
                    >Anant,
                    >The insight in this post is completely new to me!  It has changed my whole
                    >view of the word corruption.
                    >Thanks for reposting this to the NF group, no matter what is said about it
                    >being off-topic.
                    >Some accidents are quire happy ones.
                    >Alan
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >On 11 January 2013 08:33, Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> anant joglekar
                    >> 9423089706
                    >>
                    >> The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the
                    >> cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka
                    >>
                    >> ----- Forwarded Message -----
                    >> >From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
                    >> >To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>;
                    >> nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar
                    >> bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>;
                    >> milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis
                    >> Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>;
                    >> Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi
                    >> asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse
                    >> devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya
                    >> paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>;
                    >> jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>;
                    >> Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar
                    >> shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA
                    >> SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai
                    >> capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya
                    >> Subodh
                    >> mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar
                    >> smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>;
                    >> pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar
                    >> kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram
                    >> Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>;
                    >> wshirish11 wshirish@...>
                    >> >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
                    >> >Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
                    >> >Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
                    >> >To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@...,
                    >> docvirajp@...
                    >> >Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >>________________________________
                    >> > Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                    >> >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
                    >> >From: goyal.sudhir@...
                    >> >To:
                    >> >CC: goyal.sudhir@...
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >How true …………..
                    >> >Scathing
                    >> >Thought Provoking !!!
                    >> >A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
                    >> >Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
                    >> >Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is
                    >> everywhere...
                    >> >Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
                    >> >No race can be congenitally corrupt.
                    >> >But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
                    >> >To know why Indians are corrupt ,
                    >> >look at their patterns and practices .
                    >> >First:
                    >> >Religion is transactional in India.
                    >> >Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
                    >> >Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
                    >> >In the world outside the temple walls,
                    >> >such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
                    >> >A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
                    >> >but gold crowns and such baubles.
                    >> >His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
                    >> >He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
                    >> >In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka
                    >> ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45
                    >> crore to Tirupati.
                    >> >India’s temples collect so much that
                    >> >they don't know what to do with it.
                    >> >Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
                    >> >When Europeans came to India they built schools.
                    >> >When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
                    >> >Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is
                    >> wrong in doing the same thing.
                    >> >This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
                    >> >Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
                    >> >There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a
                    >> comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
                    >> >Second -
                    >> >Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
                    >> >Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after
                    >> guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
                    >> >This is unique to India.
                    >> >Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
                    >> >It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient
                    >> Greece and modern Europe.
                    >> >The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
                    >> >In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
                    >> >Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no
                    >> matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
                    >> >Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
                    >> >Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
                    >> >There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
                    >> >Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
                    >> >Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
                    >> >The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after
                    >> receiving a bribe.
                    >> >There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in
                    >> treason due to bribery.
                    >> >Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother
                    >> 'civilized' nations don't?
                    >> >Third -
                    >> >Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of
                    >> them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
                    >> >Their caste system separates them.
                    >> >They don't believe that all men are equal.
                    >> >This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
                    >> >Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many
                    >> converted to Christianity and Islam.
                    >> >The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
                    >> >There are no Indians in India ,there are
                    >> >Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
                    >> >Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
                    >> >This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
                    >> >The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
                    >> >In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he
                    >> must be bribed.
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship
                    >> Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using
                    >> AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal Engine --!
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> >Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for
                    >> FREE, click here
                    >> >
                    >> >
                    >> ----------
                    >>
                    >> -----------------------------------------------------
                    >> K Line Ship Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India
                    >>
                    >> !-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal
                    >> Engine --!
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >> 
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >------------------------------------
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alan Sloan
                    Every day I learn something new in the world of ideas. The idea of bribery as another form of warfare or technique in the battle for power is a novel one for
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Every day I learn something new in the world of ideas. The idea of bribery as another form of warfare or technique in the battle for power is a novel one for me and what you say confirms its existence and prevalence throughout the whole spectrum of different religions.

                      It is also very common in the Arms dealing community, and international finance etc, and the more cheating and corruption goes on there, the sooner the whole ball game collapses, I hope.

                      Atheists are not immune - indeed I pointed to the lack if serious scientific attention to NF as being evidence that scientists (we are aware not all scientists are atheists but some are) are corrupted. This may be because funding is controlled by those who see non-commercial-industrial techniques as "backward". .... Or perhaps because the methodology needed to study NF would more resemble epedimiology and ecology than the traditional controlled lab type techniques most scientists relate to, a kind of bias if not corruption of the mind!

                      Perceived Corruption is measured by an organisation called Transparency International. I perceive a very high level if corruption in the uK because of the Privatisation ethos in Government which js not a reflection the will of the population, but the TI index does not reflect my personal opinion, do I don't place undue weight on its results, but if we accept that measurements have any relevance at all, theirs is a relatively dispassionate reflection of the PERCIEVED situation.

                      I understood that in West Africa family networks were a factor, as well as a traditional practice of giving "presents" to people you deal with to show affection and trust. If that is a cultural thing and it helped to prevent a gang war for example, I'd find it hard to see bribery as being a "bad thing". Maybe I'm wrong I don't know much about bribery or West Africa, or anywhere else for that matter, its just a logical position.

                      So if my own simple foolishness has come across as accepting some racist judgement of a n Indian Fool, I plead guilty. I have been intrigued by the novelty of some of the ideas in his essay. You have flagged up a warning and thank you for that, but perhaps you are being a bit hard on the guy, there is at least one principle (bribes as an alternative to violence ) which surely deserves some more rational consideration. My instinct would be to compare European history with Indian, and calculate war casualties per head per century. Such an exercise is fraught with confounding factors but there is never any escape from those.

                      Yours confoundedly,

                      Alan


                      On 11 Jan 2013, at 15:14,
                      yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...> wrote:

                      > Alan this article is just a hatchet job made to look like soul searching.
                      > Every culture has had their Benedict Arnolds and Guy Fawkes.Do you really believe that the Mughals took over India by bribing Indians? The Indian kings at the time were far more wealthy. And bribes during warfare was a widely used tactic even in the West as well as the far East. You need to take a better look at the history of the world if you believe that.
                      > Bribes ,ransoms marriages were common in settling warfare any where in the world.But to look at only these3 few cases and to overlook all the other numerous heroic figures in Indian history is ridiculous.
                      > As for money and offerings in religious practices, this again has been seen throughout history in almost every religion around the world.Where do you thing the Vatican's fabulous wealth comes from.the Church used to sell blessings,relics,favours and even play broker and/or king maker between warring states in Europe.
                      > There are plenty of things wrong with present India but to besmirch a whole culture and people as this article attempts to do is downright malicious.Anybody taking this jokers word for it is pretty naive.
                      > Regards,
                      > Yaj.
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Alan Sloan alan851603@...>
                      > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 5:04 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                      >
                      > Anant,
                      > The insight in this post is completely new to me! It has changed my whole
                      > view of the word corruption.
                      > Thanks for reposting this to the NF group, no matter what is said about it
                      > being off-topic.
                      > Some accidents are quire happy ones.
                      > Alan
                      >
                      > On 11 January 2013 08:33, Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > anant joglekar
                      > > 9423089706
                      > >
                      > > The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the
                      > > cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka
                      > >
                      > > ----- Forwarded Message -----
                      > > >From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
                      > > >To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>;
                      > > nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar
                      > > bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>;
                      > > milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis
                      > > Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>;
                      > > Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi
                      > > asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse
                      > > devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya
                      > > paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>;
                      > > jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>;
                      > > Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar
                      > > shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA
                      > > SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai
                      > > capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya
                      > > Subodh
                      > > mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar
                      > > smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>;
                      > > pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar
                      > > kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram
                      > > Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>;
                      > > wshirish11 wshirish@...>
                      > > >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
                      > > >Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
                      > > >Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
                      > > >To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@...,
                      > > docvirajp@...
                      > > >Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >>________________________________
                      > > > Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                      > > >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
                      > > >From: goyal.sudhir@...
                      > > >To:
                      > > >CC: goyal.sudhir@...
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >How true …………..
                      > > >Scathing
                      > > >Thought Provoking !!!
                      > > >A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
                      > > >Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
                      > > >Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is
                      > > everywhere...
                      > > >Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
                      > > >No race can be congenitally corrupt.
                      > > >But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
                      > > >To know why Indians are corrupt ,
                      > > >look at their patterns and practices .
                      > > >First:
                      > > >Religion is transactional in India.
                      > > >Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
                      > > >Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
                      > > >In the world outside the temple walls,
                      > > >such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
                      > > >A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
                      > > >but gold crowns and such baubles.
                      > > >His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
                      > > >He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
                      > > >In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka
                      > > ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45
                      > > crore to Tirupati.
                      > > >India’s temples collect so much that
                      > > >they don't know what to do with it.
                      > > >Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
                      > > >When Europeans came to India they built schools.
                      > > >When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
                      > > >Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is
                      > > wrong in doing the same thing.
                      > > >This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
                      > > >Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
                      > > >There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a
                      > > comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
                      > > >Second -
                      > > >Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
                      > > >Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after
                      > > guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
                      > > >This is unique to India.
                      > > >Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
                      > > >It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient
                      > > Greece and modern Europe.
                      > > >The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
                      > > >In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
                      > > >Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no
                      > > matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
                      > > >Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
                      > > >Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
                      > > >There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
                      > > >Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
                      > > >Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
                      > > >The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after
                      > > receiving a bribe.
                      > > >There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in
                      > > treason due to bribery.
                      > > >Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother
                      > > 'civilized' nations don't?
                      > > >Third -
                      > > >Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of
                      > > them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
                      > > >Their caste system separates them.
                      > > >They don't believe that all men are equal.
                      > > >This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
                      > > >Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many
                      > > converted to Christianity and Islam.
                      > > >The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
                      > > >There are no Indians in India ,there are
                      > > >Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
                      > > >Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
                      > > >This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
                      > > >The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
                      > > >In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he
                      > > must be bribed.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >-----------------------------------------------------K Line Ship
                      > > Management (India) Pvt Ltd, Mumbai, India!-- Virus-Free Mail Using
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                      > > >
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                      > >
                      > > !-- Virus-Free Mail Using AntiVirus for PostMaster Enterprise & QuickHeal
                      > > Engine --!
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                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
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                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • yajnesh shetty
                      ________________________________ From: Alan Sloan perhaps you are being a bit hard on the guy, there is at least one principle (bribes
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
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                        ________________________________
                        From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>

                        perhaps you are being a bit hard on the guy, there is at least one principle (bribes as an alternative to violence ) which surely deserves some more rational consideration. My instinct would be to compare European history with Indian, and calculate war casualties per head per century. Such an exercise is fraught with confounding factors but there is never any escape from those.


                        Yours confoundedly,

                        Alan
                         

                        ******  My problem with the article is there is a definite negative slant with the article wherein he takes evils present in our culture and makes them seem the norm. I believe humans everywhere are essentially the same, different cultures can be judged differently at different periods in history.
                        This guy talks about indians only building temples and Europeans coming and building educational institutions .You have to remember that at the time India was a colony and it was being looted of its wealth  and whatever was built was built with a fraction of the money.One of the main ideas behind the educational system at the time was to create a class of english speaking  "civil servants". Of course it turned out to our advantage in the long run but to say that indians dont build educational institutions is a joke.India was known for its centres of learning all over the world prior to the Islamic invasions.The Nalanda university in India (modern Bihar)was considered the premier Univsersity in the the world at its time(look it up) with students from all over the world coming to study there  before it was put to the torch by the invaders.They say that it burned for 3 months ,you can imagine all the valuable books and documents that must have been
                        destroyed.Even now there are plenty of universities and educational institutions build by religious trusts(hindu,muslim,christian, etc) and other private individuals who are Indians. Post colonial rule we had to get back to learning to govern ourselves and get our economy back into place. We have taken some time but we are definitely on the way. believe me the day is not far when our educational institutions will match the best in the world.
                                                                                                                                           Regards,
                                                                                                                                             Yaj.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Alan Sloan
                        You re over sensitive - the reader from Europe sees immediately where it comes from. I did note perhaps a little hint of patronisation in the article re our
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          You're over sensitive - the reader from Europe sees immediately where it comes from. I did note perhaps a little hint of patronisation in the article re our little primitive european militaristic habit if killing each other rather than throwing money at our enemies, but I let it go......

                          Warm, if somewhat focussed, regards,

                          Alan

                          On 11 Jan 2013, at 17:47, yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Alan Sloan alan851603@...>
                          >
                          > perhaps you are being a bit hard on the guy, there is at least one principle (bribes as an alternative to violence ) which surely deserves some more rational consideration. My instinct would be to compare European history with Indian, and calculate war casualties per head per century. Such an exercise is fraught with confounding factors but there is never any escape from those.
                          >
                          > Yours confoundedly,
                          >
                          > Alan
                          >
                          >
                          > ****** My problem with the article is there is a definite negative slant with the article wherein he takes evils present in our culture and makes them seem the norm. I believe humans everywhere are essentially the same, different cultures can be judged differently at different periods in history.
                          > This guy talks about indians only building temples and Europeans coming and building educational institutions .You have to remember that at the time India was a colony and it was being looted of its wealth and whatever was built was built with a fraction of the money.One of the main ideas behind the educational system at the time was to create a class of english speaking "civil servants". Of course it turned out to our advantage in the long run but to say that indians dont build educational institutions is a joke.India was known for its centres of learning all over the world prior to the Islamic invasions.The Nalanda university in India (modern Bihar)was considered the premier Univsersity in the the world at its time(look it up) with students from all over the world coming to study there before it was put to the torch by the invaders.They say that it burned for 3 months ,you can imagine all the valuable books and documents that must have been
                          > destroyed.Even now there are plenty of universities and educational institutions build by religious trusts(hindu,muslim,christian, etc) and other private individuals who are Indians. Post colonial rule we had to get back to learning to govern ourselves and get our economy back into place. We have taken some time but we are definitely on the way. believe me the day is not far when our educational institutions will match the best in the world.
                          > Regards,
                          > Yaj.
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ruthie Aquino
                          Gentlemen, I live in Europe and for decades Indians have had a reputation here as top IT experts and engineers. I have family in Sydney in IT and they see
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
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                            Gentlemen,

                            I live in Europe and for decades Indians have had a reputation here as top
                            IT experts and engineers.
                            I have family in Sydney in IT and they see Indians as fierce contenders.
                            India was THE call center of the English-speaking world.
                            In France we think India and China are formidable players in many fields.
                            And I'm not even mentioning the extreme elegance of your women's saris and
                            the princely stature of your men. I don't care if those were cliches.
                            A short article cannot summarize Indian history and describe Indians as a
                            whole.
                            I thought the guy who wrote it was having a punch at himself, like Belgians
                            do or Filipinos do and many other nationalities do. Surf the net and you'll
                            find so many jokes about Filipinos and corruption in the Philippines.
                            There is some truth to them, we laugh about it, we lament it, but of course
                            we take it with a pinch of salt.
                            In France where I live right now people refrain from talking politics and
                            religion, because if you want people to fight just throw the subject at
                            them.

                            Bribes ? I do it everyday. The best baker I know cannot resist my
                            home-made cakes.

                            Have a nice day.
                            RUTHIE



                            2013/1/12 yajnesh shetty <yajnesh@...>

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Alan Sloan alan851603@...>
                            >
                            > perhaps you are being a bit hard on the guy, there is at least one
                            > principle (bribes as an alternative to violence ) which surely deserves
                            > some more rational consideration. My instinct would be to compare European
                            > history with Indian, and calculate war casualties per head per century.
                            > Such an exercise is fraught with confounding factors but there is never any
                            > escape from those.
                            >
                            > Yours confoundedly,
                            >
                            > Alan
                            >
                            >
                            > ****** My problem with the article is there is a definite negative slant
                            > with the article wherein he takes evils present in our culture and makes
                            > them seem the norm. I believe humans everywhere are essentially the same,
                            > different cultures can be judged differently at different periods in
                            > history.
                            > This guy talks about indians only building temples and Europeans coming
                            > and building educational institutions .You have to remember that at the
                            > time India was a colony and it was being looted of its wealth and whatever
                            > was built was built with a fraction of the money.One of the main ideas
                            > behind the educational system at the time was to create a class of english
                            > speaking "civil servants". Of course it turned out to our advantage in the
                            > long run but to say that indians dont build educational institutions is a
                            > joke.India was known for its centres of learning all over the world prior
                            > to the Islamic invasions.The Nalanda university in India (modern Bihar)was
                            > considered the premier Univsersity in the the world at its time(look it up)
                            > with students from all over the world coming to study there before it was
                            > put to the torch by the invaders.They say that it burned for 3 months ,you
                            > can imagine all the valuable books and documents that must have been
                            > destroyed.Even now there are plenty of universities and educational
                            > institutions build by religious trusts(hindu,muslim,christian, etc) and
                            > other private individuals who are Indians. Post colonial rule we had to get
                            > back to learning to govern ourselves and get our economy back into place.
                            > We have taken some time but we are definitely on the way. believe me the
                            > day is not far when our educational institutions will match the best in the
                            > world.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            >
                            > Yaj.
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • yajnesh shetty
                            ________________________________ From: Alan Sloan To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday,
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
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                              ________________________________
                              From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>
                              To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:31 PM
                              Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?


                               
                              You're over sensitive - 

                              ********

                              I guess I am  Alan and Ruthie  ;-)  .Mea culpa mea maxima culpa
                                                                                        Regards,
                                                                                            Yaj.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jason Stewart
                              In in–depth detail it historically started here: --
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 11, 2013
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                                In in–depth detail it historically started here: --> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/files/Hillman%20et%20al-Late%20Glacial%20Cereal%20Cult%20-Abu%20Hureyra-2001.pdf%c2%a0
                                Hence this was the reason why in 2006 we friends posted this critical scientific paper  in the files section of this group. 

                                Footnotes
                                A prestigious in English language, internationally published, peer reviewed, widely accepted scientific paper, authored by some top UK scientists like Gordon Hillman. 
                                --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Hillman
                                and intensely associated with some of the most renowned work of David Harris at Abu Hureyra on the Euphrates -- one most famous archaeological site; in what is nowadays the nation of Syria.
                                --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_R._Harris

                                David Montgomery, USA geology professor, wrote his significant book *Dirt*, about sustainability and soils in the long term view. 
                                He used, as some of his major sources, this paper and related research from Abu Hureyra on the Euphrates River together with the rest of the major body of work done there by Harris and Hillman and co.. 
                                In generalisation, some of the English language’s most respected work on the history of agriculture ever done. 
                                This respected work has been the basis of many popular works. 
                                Many members of this group have referred to Jared Diamond’s popularisations of science, eg. _Guns, Germs, and Steel_, _Collapse_, _The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee_. 
                                This science from Harris and Hillman and co. is the *real* science which Diamond extensively relies on. Real science means the actual experiments and measurements out in nature in the field, rather than the writing by means of desktop book learning, politically correct word--fashions--of--the--day and good book marketing words. 
                                These scientific papers more clearly--honestly, qualified and more critically shed light on the history of western agriculture … *and culture* -- ...(many times furthermore)… on the depth of corruption history, the depths of inequalities since then ... , all over all the Indo--European languages family’s peoples of our world. 
                                This most respected English language science from the Tigres and Euphrates 'western' origins behind western agricultural history is the basis for most English language discussion of the subject in the world, It is also obviously not perfect while being much better science than corrupted popularisations of it, by people living within social inequalities! It is obviously not perfect science because of the fundamental limitations of human knowledge, evidence data found in the field and biases of scientist’s inequalities and English language.  
                                It is obviously the information behind late Fukuoka Masanobu’s great, epigrammatic, discussions of agricultural history in *The Road Back to Nature* and his many more pieces of literature. In turn late Fukuoka Masanobu sensei has provided some scholarly, profound criticisms of parts of this science from his practical and philosophical work. This top shelf English language science and late Fukuoka Masanobu bolster each other with their implicit mutual criticisms of each other.

                                I say this to encourage learning by reading this paper. Let’s everyone of friends here get up on the same background reading, for better communication.
                                 
                                Full citation with abstract
                                Hillman, Gordon; Hedges, Robert; Moore, Andrew; Colledge, Susan; Pettitt, Paul 
                                (2001-05-01). 
                                "New evidence of Lateglacial cereal cultivation at Abu Hureyra on the Euphrates". 
                                _The Holocene_
                                11 (4): 383 -393. 
                                doi:10.1191/095968301678302823.
                                --> http://hol.sagepub.com/content/11/4/383.abstract
                                Abstract

                                Hitherto, the earliest archaeological finds of domestic cereals in southwestern Asia have involved wheats and barleys dating from the beginning of the Holocene, 11–12000 calendar years ago. New evidence from the site of Abu Hureyra suggests that systematic cultivation of cereals in fact started well before the end of the Pleistocene by at least 13000 years ago, and that rye was among the first crops. The evidence also indicates that hunter-gatherers at Abu Hureyra first started cultivating crops in response to a steep decline in wild plants that had served as staple foods for at least the preceding four centuries. The decline in these wild staples is attributable to a sudden, dry, cold, climatic reversal equivalent to the ‘Younger Dryas’ period. At Abu Hureyra, therefore, it appears that the primary trigger for the occupants to start cultivating caloric staples was climate change. It is these beginnings of cultivation in the late Pleistocene that
                                gave rise to the integrated grain-livestock Neolithic farming systems of the early Holocene."

                                Required reading by all, in my humble opinion.

                                For anyone who appreciates irony with their sense of humour, that was hilarious irony Anant.
                                Let’s laugh and remember, that the most prestigious science in the world, of the last 10,000--11,000 years of agricultural history, properly demonstrates corruption of social structures ever since. Deadly serious and funny -- both. Let’s please laugh a lot at the predicament, that way we get to do some reflection on it, *and* (simultaneously) get on with seriously healing and very seriously overcoming that (history, corruption, biblical evil (metaphor of the Garden of Eden banishment) ... ).

                                I wrote this message extemporaneously (without copyediting or preparation), so there are of course writing imperfections in it. 
                                Critically, i read thousands of scientific papers so i may use big scientific words that are not common words. Please don’t complain about them. Please just use a dictionary, as they are easy to look up, mainstream English words available in English dictionaries like the Oxford -- it’s just that they are long big words and more particular for what i am meaning. This paragraph’s statement of concern has a background elsewhere.


                                Biggest best true nature with all,
                                (PS. 2nd time sent to ?c…ed? Fukuoka_farming group.)

                                Jason Stewart



                                >________________________________
                                > From: Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...>
                                >To: Save India From Corruption <contact@...>; "craftshweta@..." <craftshweta@...>; Solar Pump <crescent.rafiq@...>; "crm@..." <crm@...>; "customer.service@..." <customer.service@...>; "cybercell@..." <cybercell@...>; Cyber Crime Monitoring Cell <cybercrimecell@...>; Gautam Mhaisalkar <dada_mhaisalkar@...>; Raut Saheb Social Forestry <dcr1155@...>; Uzramma Vimala Jagan <dcydastkar@...>; Deepak Suchde <deepaksuchde@...>; ivrcl dehani project <dehanilisy@...>; Devyani Joshi <deoyani@...>; Devashree Phadke <devashreep@...>; Devdatta.Pendse <devdatta.pendse@...>; "dhanadapotnis@..." <dhanadapotnis@...>; "dinesh_oke@... Oke" <dinesh_oke@...>; "dinesh_risbud@..." <dinesh_risbud@...>; Dr S.P.S. Khanuja <director@...>; Director KFRI
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                                Neil Joglekar <joneil73@...>; hyderabad dosco j r d rao <jrdrao@...>; Viraj Kapate <kapateviru18@...>
                                >Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 6:33 PM
                                >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                >
                                >

                                >
                                >

                                >anant joglekar
                                >9423089706
                                >
                                >The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka
                                >
                                >----- Forwarded Message -----
                                >>From: Gautam Mhaisalkar dada_mhaisalkar@...>
                                >>To: Anil Pendse arpendse@...>; Angeline nesya2003@...>; nitin bawle nitinbawle@...>; Bhagwat D.Manohar bhagwat@...>; bharathi char bharathi.char@...>; milind bhagwat milindbhagwat123@...>; BhagyashreeKhasnis Bhagyashree.Khasnis@...>; Bhal Patankar gr8warrier@...>; Anant Joglekar apjoglekar@...>; Arvind Marwadi asm1955@...>; aditya adi4u1981@...>; DevdattaPendse devdatta.pendse@...>; Dilip Dattatraya paranjpedilip38@...>; Jayant Kulkarni kulkarni.jayant@...>; jayeshbhavna jayeshbhavna@...>; jaideep jaideep@...>; Vilas Karhade vilas_karhade@...>; shailesh kirloskar shaileshkir1978@...>; neetin khedkar neetinkhedkar@...>; MEGHA SANJEEV megha_sanjeev@...>; makarand sardesai capt.makarand@...>; Mukund Kasar mukundkasar@...>; Priya Subodh
                                >mhaisalkar@...>; PRAMOD TILLU pramodtillu@...>; suresh pitkar smpitkar@...>; Pradeep Ghatnekar pghatnekar1511@...>; pandurang nawkar pandurangnawkar@...>; Rujuta Kelkar kruju3@...>; sanjeevani vichare knowelladv@...>; Shreeram Sabnis shreeram28@...>; satish shende satishvshende@...>; wshirish11 wshirish@...>
                                >>Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013 8:08 AM
                                >>Subject: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>From: Shashi Mhatre shashi_mhatre@...
                                >>Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:52:06 +0530
                                >>To: sardesai_arvind@..., dada_mhaisalkar@..., docvirajp@...
                                >>Subject: FW: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>________________________________
                                >> Subject: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                >>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:39:39 +0530
                                >>From: goyal.sudhir@...
                                >>To:
                                >>CC: goyal.sudhir@...
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>How true …………..
                                >>Scathing
                                >>Thought Provoking !!!
                                >>A view point.... Lot of us may differ, nevertheless, it is worth reading.
                                >>Indians are Hobbesian.(culture of self interest)
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>Corruption in India is a cultural aspect.
                                >>Indians seem to think nothing peculiar about corruption .It is everywhere...
                                >>Indians tolerate corrupt individuals rather than correct them.
                                >>No race can be congenitally corrupt.
                                >>But can a race be corrupted by its culture?
                                >>To know why Indians are corrupt ,
                                >>look at their patterns and practices .
                                >>First:
                                >>Religion is transactional in India.
                                >>Indians give God cash and anticipate an out-of-turn reward.
                                >>Such a plea acknowledges that favours are needed for the undeserving.
                                >>In the world outside the temple walls,
                                >>such a transaction is named- “bribe”.
                                >>A wealthy Indian gives not cash to temples,
                                >>but gold crowns and such baubles.
                                >>His gifts can not feed the poor. His pay-off is for God.
                                >>He thinks it will be wasted if it goes to a needy man.
                                >>In June 2009, The Hindu published a report of Karnataka ministerG.Janardhan Reddy gifting a crown of gold and diamonds worthRs 45 crore to Tirupati.
                                >>India’s temples collect so much that
                                >>they don't know what to do with it.
                                >>Billions are gathering dust in temple vaults.
                                >>When Europeans came to India they built schools.
                                >>When Indians go to Europe & USA, they build temples.
                                >>Indians believe that if God accepts money for his favours,then nothing is wrong in doing the same thing.
                                >>This is why Indians are so easily corruptible.
                                >>Indian culture accommodates such transactions morally.
                                >>There is no real stigma. An utterly corrupt politician canmake a comeback, just unthinkable in the West.
                                >>Second -
                                >>Indian moral ambiguity towards corruption is visible in its history.
                                >>Indian history tells of the capture of cities and kingdoms after guardswere paid off to open the gates, and commanders paid off to surrender.
                                >>This is unique to India.
                                >>Indians' corrupt nature has meant limited warfare on the subcontinent.
                                >>It is striking how little Indians have actually fought compared toancient Greece and modern Europe.
                                >>The Turks’ battles with Nadir Shah were vicious and fought to the finish.
                                >>In India fighting wasn't needed, bribing was enough to see off armies.
                                >>Any invader willing to spend cash could brush aside India’s kings,no matter how many tens of thousands soldiers were in their infantry.
                                >>Little resistance was given by the Indians at the “Battle” of Plassey.
                                >>Clive paid off Mir Jaffar and all of Bengal folded to an army of 3,000.
                                >>There was always a financial exchange to taking Indian forts.
                                >>Golconda was captured in 1687 after the secret back door was left open.
                                >>Mughals vanquished Marathas and Rajputs with nothing but bribes.
                                >>The Raja of Srinagar gave up Dara Shikoh’s son Sulaiman toAurangzeb after receiving a bribe.
                                >>There are many cases where Indians participatedon a large scale in treason due to bribery.
                                >>Question is: Why Indians have a transactional culture whileother 'civilized' nations don't?
                                >>Third -
                                >>Indians do not believe in the theory that they all can riseif each of them behaves morally, because that is not the message of their faith.
                                >>Their caste system separates them.
                                >>They don't believe that all men are equal.
                                >>This resulted in their division and migration to other religions .
                                >>Many Hindus started their own faith like Sikh, Jain, Buddha and many converted to Christianity and Islam.
                                >>The result is that Indians don't trust one another .
                                >>There are no Indians in India ,there are
                                >>Hindus ,Christians, Muslims and what not.
                                >>Indians forget that 400 years ago they all belonged to one faith.
                                >>This division evolved an unhealthy culture.
                                >>The inequality has resulted in a corrupt society.
                                >>In India every one is thus against everyone else,except God ­and even he must be bribed.
                                >>
                                >>
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                              • David
                                Corruption is a human trait, It has shown itself in all cultures, nations, and religions. As Frank Herbert observed many years ago, Power does not corrupt,
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jan 12, 2013
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                                  Corruption is a human trait, It has shown itself in all cultures,
                                  nations, and religions. As Frank Herbert observed many years ago, Power
                                  does not corrupt, power attracts the corruptible. Whenever a power
                                  strata exists, there will be some level of corruption.

                                  David
                                  Idaho
                                • de Rosas/Peterhans Family
                                  nicely stated. thank you.... paul (seattle) ________________________________ From: David To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jan 12, 2013
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                                    nicely stated. thank you.... paul (seattle)




                                    ________________________________
                                    From: David <dragon@...>
                                    To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:26 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?


                                     
                                    Corruption is a human trait, It has shown itself in all cultures,
                                    nations, and religions. As Frank Herbert observed many years ago, Power
                                    does not corrupt, power attracts the corruptible. Whenever a power
                                    strata exists, there will be some level of corruption.

                                    David
                                    Idaho



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Alan Sloan
                                    Yes, Apart from Natural Laws like those of Thermodynamics, any merely human idea or principle can become corrupted, but in some cases that is a very good
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jan 13, 2013
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                                      Yes,

                                      Apart from Natural Laws like those of Thermodynamics, any merely human idea
                                      or principle can become corrupted, but in some cases that is a very good
                                      thing.

                                      The salient points of the article for me were;
                                      a) The use of corruption as an alternative to force,
                                      b) The businesslike nature of "practical religion" and
                                      c) It was well written with a lot of detail about the history an
                                      unfamiliar part of the world.

                                      It was also possibly quite biassed, but from my level of knowledge about
                                      India, I'm certainly not going to try to form a judgement on that.

                                      I remember meeting a British Pakistani guy who'd visited Afghanistan just
                                      before the the invasion - he (urban born and bred - no Natural Farmer )
                                      said the place was ...." a graveyard! - they have nothing, they are so
                                      poor - they are not a threat to anyone - we need to bomb the place, with
                                      Aid!" Such a policy, although "corrupt" according to the noble, high and
                                      virtuous ambitions of the US and UK governments, would have saved me, the
                                      taxpayer, a fortune, and we'd likely have a decent, working and local
                                      government up and running by now. It may well have been "corrupt", but so
                                      what? You have to start somewhere. The UK Government has nothing to shout
                                      about, although it is perceived as being "clean", there are many extremely
                                      dubious Old Boy networks, procurement and sales methods going on in the
                                      Arms Industry, for example, as I am sure there are all over the world. I
                                      doubt India is that bad.

                                      India scores marginally less well than China, but a whole lot better than
                                      Russia on the "Transparency International Scale of Perceived
                                      Corruption".<http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results>
                                      Americans note, UK is two points above you Ha Ha! ;>)

                                      Natural Farming should be bombing some of the middle eastern countries with
                                      seed-balls. Tree cover is strongly suspected to attract rain, and even on
                                      an experimental basis such a policy would be far cheaper and more socially
                                      and ecologically constructive than using explosives. A healthy ecology is
                                      the foundation of a decent human society.......

                                      Alan (UK)



                                      On 13 January 2013 03:03, de Rosas/Peterhans Family <mpcd4730@...>wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > nicely stated. thank you.... paul (seattle)
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: David dragon@...>
                                      > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:26 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Corruption is a human trait, It has shown itself in all cultures,
                                      > nations, and religions. As Frank Herbert observed many years ago, Power
                                      > does not corrupt, power attracts the corruptible. Whenever a power
                                      > strata exists, there will be some level of corruption.
                                      >
                                      > David
                                      > Idaho
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Daniel Jager
                                      What I noticed is that corruption is rife everywhere. In the West corruption only seems less, because it is better hidden, more institutionalized. Think
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jan 13, 2013
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                                        What I noticed is that corruption is rife everywhere.
                                        In the West corruption only "seems" less, because it is better hidden, more institutionalized. Think tax-havens, off-shore accounts, company lease-cars, company jets, yearly million-dollars performance bonuses, etc. In other countries the corruption is just more open and often much more petty and small-scale. But is that really an objective difference?


                                        We have "Modern society", "Industrialization", "Traditions", "Religion", "Culture" But, truly, no country in the world is "Civilized", because us, the people, are not civil. We gossip, we envy, we hate, we covet, we are selfish and vain. And all this despite thousands of years or religions doctrines, 500 years of scientific thinking and 200 years of modern economic theory.

                                        We changed everything on the surface of our planets, but ourselves.


                                        Daniel

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Jason
                                        Thanks. I m not a social constructs believer, for my point of view; I m a evidence base studier, evidence repeatedly verified, for my point of view. It always
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jan 13, 2013
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                                          Thanks.
                                          I'm not a social constructs believer, for my point of view; I'm a evidence base studier, evidence repeatedly verified, for my point of view. It always seems to me the so called 'West' has for many hundreds of years substantively been more corrupt, in terms of inequalities.

                                          Mr Stewart

                                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Jager wrote:
                                          >
                                          > What I noticed is that corruption is rife everywhere.
                                          > In the West corruption only "seems" less, because it is better hidden, more institutionalized. Think tax-havens, off-shore accounts, company lease-cars, company jets, yearly million-dollars performance bonuses, etc. In other countries the corruption is just more open and often much more petty and small-scale. But is that really an objective difference?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > We have "Modern society", "Industrialization", "Traditions", "Religion", "Culture"�But, truly, no country in the world is "Civilized", because us, the people, are not civil. We gossip, we envy, we hate, we covet, we are selfish and vain. And all this despite thousands of years or religions doctrines, 500 years of scientific thinking and�200 years of modern economic theory.
                                          >
                                          > We changed everything on the surface of our planets, but ourselves.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Daniel
                                        • Raju Titus
                                          Dear friends, Corruption is directly related with Natural food,water and air . Growing our food without exploitation of nature and farmer community can stop
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jan 13, 2013
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                                            Dear friends,
                                            Corruption is directly related with "Natural food,water and air".
                                            Growing our food without exploitation of nature and farmer community
                                            can stop corruption. People likes to live in cities are away from
                                            nature. Even in villages people are going away from nature due to
                                            adopting unnatural farming. Deep tilling converting lands weak ,weak
                                            soil producing weak crops. Weak crops become sick, farmers using
                                            insecticides and pesticides. Weak crops become sick and poisonous.
                                            Water and air is also become poisonous. This is not only in India
                                            every were people those are depended on money are facing same problem.
                                            Unnatural food,water and air spoiling our body and mind. Our religious
                                            societies and schools are failing to provide natural education.
                                            Education of Fukuoka farming is required.
                                            Thanks
                                            Raju

                                            On 1/14/13, Daniel Jager <dfjager@...> wrote:
                                            > What I noticed is that corruption is rife everywhere.
                                            > In the West corruption only "seems" less, because it is better hidden, more
                                            > institutionalized. Think tax-havens, off-shore accounts, company lease-cars,
                                            > company jets, yearly million-dollars performance bonuses, etc. In other
                                            > countries the corruption is just more open and often much more petty and
                                            > small-scale. But is that really an objective difference?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > We have "Modern society", "Industrialization", "Traditions", "Religion",
                                            > "Culture" But, truly, no country in the world is "Civilized", because us,
                                            > the people, are not civil. We gossip, we envy, we hate, we covet, we are
                                            > selfish and vain. And all this despite thousands of years or religions
                                            > doctrines, 500 years of scientific thinking and 200 years of modern economic
                                            > theory.
                                            >
                                            > We changed everything on the surface of our planets, but ourselves.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Daniel
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >


                                            --
                                            *Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
                                            rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.
                                            http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
                                            http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
                                          • Anant Joglekar
                                            This is why fukuoka was telling natural farming ( as lifestyle) is multidimensional and we can not separate it from our social / cultural traits.   anant
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jan 13, 2013
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                                              This is why fukuoka was telling natural farming ( as lifestyle) is multidimensional and we can not separate it from our social / cultural traits.


                                               
                                              anant joglekar
                                              9423089706

                                              The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka



                                              >________________________________
                                              > From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
                                              >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 10:59 AM
                                              >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                              >
                                              >

                                              >Dear friends,
                                              >Corruption is directly related with "Natural food,water and air".
                                              >Growing our food without exploitation of nature and farmer community
                                              >can stop corruption. People likes to live in cities are away from
                                              >nature. Even in villages people are going away from nature due to
                                              >adopting unnatural farming. Deep tilling converting lands weak ,weak
                                              >soil producing weak crops. Weak crops become sick, farmers using
                                              >insecticides and pesticides. Weak crops become sick and poisonous.
                                              >Water and air is also become poisonous. This is not only in India
                                              >every were people those are depended on money are facing same problem.
                                              >Unnatural food,water and air spoiling our body and mind. Our religious
                                              >societies and schools are failing to provide natural education.
                                              >Education of Fukuoka farming is required.
                                              >Thanks
                                              >Raju
                                              >
                                              >On 1/14/13, Daniel Jager dfjager@...> wrote:
                                              >> What I noticed is that corruption is rife everywhere.
                                              >> In the West corruption only "seems" less, because it is better hidden, more
                                              >> institutionalized. Think tax-havens, off-shore accounts, company lease-cars,
                                              >> company jets, yearly million-dollars performance bonuses, etc. In other
                                              >> countries the corruption is just more open and often much more petty and
                                              >> small-scale. But is that really an objective difference?
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> We have "Modern society", "Industrialization", "Traditions", "Religion",
                                              >> "Culture" But, truly, no country in the world is "Civilized", because us,
                                              >> the people, are not civil. We gossip, we envy, we hate, we covet, we are
                                              >> selfish and vain. And all this despite thousands of years or religions
                                              >> doctrines, 500 years of scientific thinking and 200 years of modern economic
                                              >> theory.
                                              >>
                                              >> We changed everything on the surface of our planets, but ourselves.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Daniel
                                              >>
                                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >--
                                              >*Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
                                              >rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.
                                              >http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
                                              >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
                                              >http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Jason Stewart
                                              Corruption is directly related with Natural food,water and air .Growing our food without exploitation of nature and farmer community can stop corruption.
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jan 13, 2013
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                                                "Corruption is directly related with "Natural food,water and air".Growing our food without exploitation of nature and farmer community

                                                can stop corruption." --Mr. Raju Titus said.

                                                Indeed! -- true, according to my evidence, repeatedly verified, from the best English language scholars in the world -- English language scholars in the many disciplines involved in this subject.
                                                 
                                                Biggest best true nature with all,


                                                Jason Stewart



                                                >________________________________
                                                > From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
                                                >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                                >Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 3:29 PM
                                                >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Fw: FW : Why Indians are Corrupt?
                                                >
                                                >

                                                >Dear friends,
                                                >Corruption is directly related with "Natural food,water and air".
                                                >Growing our food without exploitation of nature and farmer community
                                                >can stop corruption. People likes to live in cities are away from
                                                >nature. Even in villages people are going away from nature due to
                                                >adopting unnatural farming. Deep tilling converting lands weak ,weak
                                                >soil producing weak crops. Weak crops become sick, farmers using
                                                >insecticides and pesticides. Weak crops become sick and poisonous.
                                                >Water and air is also become poisonous. This is not only in India
                                                >every were people those are depended on money are facing same problem.
                                                >Unnatural food,water and air spoiling our body and mind. Our religious
                                                >societies and schools are failing to provide natural education.
                                                >Education of Fukuoka farming is required.
                                                >Thanks
                                                >Raju
                                                >
                                                >On 1/14/13, Daniel Jager dfjager@...> wrote:
                                                >> What I noticed is that corruption is rife everywhere.
                                                >> In the West corruption only "seems" less, because it is better hidden, more
                                                >> institutionalized. Think tax-havens, off-shore accounts, company lease-cars,
                                                >> company jets, yearly million-dollars performance bonuses, etc. In other
                                                >> countries the corruption is just more open and often much more petty and
                                                >> small-scale. But is that really an objective difference?
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> We have "Modern society", "Industrialization", "Traditions", "Religion",
                                                >> "Culture" But, truly, no country in the world is "Civilized", because us,
                                                >> the people, are not civil. We gossip, we envy, we hate, we covet, we are
                                                >> selfish and vain. And all this despite thousands of years or religions
                                                >> doctrines, 500 years of scientific thinking and 200 years of modern economic
                                                >> theory.
                                                >>
                                                >> We changed everything on the surface of our planets, but ourselves.
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> Daniel
                                                >>
                                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >--
                                                >*Raju Titus.Natural farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
                                                >rajuktitus@.... +919179738049.
                                                >http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
                                                >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/
                                                >http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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