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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Pigeon peas

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  • Alan Sloan
    Hi David, Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion do you leave for reseeding? Would rye be any use? ALan ... [Non-text portions of
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 6, 2013
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      Hi David,
      Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion do you
      leave for reseeding?
      Would rye be any use?
      ALan

      On 6 January 2013 18:43, David <dragon@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > I have an area that has winter wheat reseeding itself year after year. I
      > run sheep over it once in the spring, and I have been looking for things
      > to add that will reseed themselves every year. This might be something
      > to try. Being in northern high desert, we have tried several things
      > with limited success.
      >
      > David
      > Idaho
      >
      >
      > On 1/6/2013 9:36 AM, d pfalzer wrote:
      > >
      > > Funny how I have heard rave reviews about pigeon peas from
      > > permaculturalists for several years without ever paying attention to
      > > how useful they are to me.
      > >
      > > Now suddenly I have been told the key bits of information (to me) that
      > > the beans they made are good to eat and that it makes nice flowers AND
      > > now I have thoroughly drunk the kool-aid and want to rave about them
      > > too. Someone also has given me a plant -- guess I needed a kick in the
      > > butt to get me going with this one.
      > >
      > > (My research says that pigeon peas are known as red gram in India.)
      > >
      > > It seems like they will be another effortless food making plant for me
      > > here in Florida. (I love plants like that.)
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David
      We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter over the last
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 6, 2013
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        We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic
        matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter
        over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter
        winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at
        a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left
        the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the
        area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows
        last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if
        it takes hold.

        David
        Idaho

        On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:
        >
        > Hi David,
        > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion
        > do you
        > leave for reseeding?
        > Would rye be any use?
        > ALan
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Alan Sloan
        Ok, And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening over a
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
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          Ok,

          And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the
          same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening over
          a period?

          And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area
          for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?

          Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if
          you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.

          1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side of the
          world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and
          retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not
          all about yield.

          But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany
          (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by
          hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye took off
          in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean
          fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.

          Alan
          England

          On 7 January 2013 03:52, David <dragon@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic
          > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter
          > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter
          > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at
          > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left
          > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the
          > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows
          > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if
          > it takes hold.
          >
          > David
          > Idaho
          >
          >
          > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi David,
          > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion
          > > do you
          > > leave for reseeding?
          > > Would rye be any use?
          > > ALan
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nandan Palaparambil
          I have seen cowpea cultivated with rice and if it overtakes rice, water is released to weaken it, like frost in your climate. Is this wheat a traditional
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
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            I have seen cowpea cultivated with rice and if it overtakes rice, water is released to weaken it, like frost in your climate.

            Is this wheat a traditional variety or a low height high yielding variety? How tall does this grow?

            Regards,
            Nandan

            --- On Mon, 1/7/13, Alan Sloan <alan851603@...> wrote:

            From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>
            Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Pigeon peas
            To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 6:18 PM








             









            Ok,



            And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the

            same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening over

            a period?



            And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area

            for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?



            Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if

            you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.



            1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side of the

            world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and

            retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not

            all about yield.



            But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany

            (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by

            hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye took off

            in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean

            fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.



            Alan

            England



            On 7 January 2013 03:52, David dragon@...> wrote:



            > **

            >

            >

            > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic

            > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter

            > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter

            > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at

            > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left

            > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the

            > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows

            > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if

            > it takes hold.

            >

            > David

            > Idaho

            >

            >

            > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:

            > >

            > > Hi David,

            > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion

            > > do you

            > > leave for reseeding?

            > > Would rye be any use?

            > > ALan

            > >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            >

            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David
            Alan, and Nandan, The area in wheat has young trees around the perimeter. We planted them for wind break and shade. Also, although we in a desert, there is
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
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              Alan, and Nandan,
              The area in wheat has young trees around the perimeter. We planted them
              for wind break and shade. Also, although we in a desert, there is water
              as little as 14 ft. (5m) down. Most wells above in our area above 100
              ft. have nitrate contamination due to the intensive chemical based
              agriculture in the area. Our hope is that the trees will pull some of
              the nitrates from the ground, with the water. The wheat that is shaded
              matures later than the wheat in full sun, but other than that it all
              ripens at the same time.

              The density of the wheat does not come close to the density of the
              commercial farms in the area. I posted a photo that uses the wheat as a
              background for one of our ewes to give an idea as to the height and
              density. She is about 27in. (69cm) at the shoulder (withers).

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1265216517/pic/1062051695/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

              The wheat was seeded originally with an unknown variety. I got about 12
              lbs.(5.5kg) from a pile that was spilled on the side of the road by a
              truck hauling it. So, I expect that the original was a hybrid variety
              that has devolved to one of its predecessors. It is very stable and
              consistent year after year with good kernels.

              The thing that limits most summer growing plants here is the high
              temperatures and lack of rain from June through October. That is why I
              thought the pigeon pea might work. If it can grow in the cool wet spring
              and make it to seed by the end of May, it would have a chance.

              David
              Idaho


              On 1/7/2013 5:48 AM, Alan Sloan wrote:
              >
              > Ok,
              >
              > And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the
              > same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening
              > over
              > a period?
              >
              > And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area
              > for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?
              >
              > Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if
              > you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.
              >
              > 1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side
              > of the
              > world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and
              > retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not
              > all about yield.
              >
              > But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany
              > (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by
              > hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye
              > took off
              > in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean
              > fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.
              >
              > Alan
              > England
              >
              > On 7 January 2013 03:52, David dragon@...
              > <mailto:dragon%40owlandragon.com>> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic
              > > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter
              > > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter
              > > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at
              > > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left
              > > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the
              > > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows
              > > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if
              > > it takes hold.
              > >
              > > David
              > > Idaho
              > >
              > >
              > > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi David,
              > > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion
              > > > do you
              > > > leave for reseeding?
              > > > Would rye be any use?
              > > > ALan
              > > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nandan Palaparambil
              This wheat looks really good, it has established neatly.. Never thought reseeding can bringup crops like this..Thanks for sharing this photo.. Regards, Nandan
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
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                This wheat looks really good, it has established neatly.. Never thought reseeding can bringup crops like this..Thanks for sharing this photo..


                Regards,
                Nandan

                --- On Tue, 1/8/13, David <dragon@...> wrote:

                From: David <dragon@...>
                Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Pigeon peas
                To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 11:17 AM








                 











                Alan, and Nandan,

                The area in wheat has young trees around the perimeter. We planted them

                for wind break and shade. Also, although we in a desert, there is water

                as little as 14 ft. (5m) down. Most wells above in our area above 100

                ft. have nitrate contamination due to the intensive chemical based

                agriculture in the area. Our hope is that the trees will pull some of

                the nitrates from the ground, with the water. The wheat that is shaded

                matures later than the wheat in full sun, but other than that it all

                ripens at the same time.



                The density of the wheat does not come close to the density of the

                commercial farms in the area. I posted a photo that uses the wheat as a

                background for one of our ewes to give an idea as to the height and

                density. She is about 27in. (69cm) at the shoulder (withers).



                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1265216517/pic/1062051695/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc



                The wheat was seeded originally with an unknown variety. I got about 12

                lbs.(5.5kg) from a pile that was spilled on the side of the road by a

                truck hauling it. So, I expect that the original was a hybrid variety

                that has devolved to one of its predecessors. It is very stable and

                consistent year after year with good kernels.



                The thing that limits most summer growing plants here is the high

                temperatures and lack of rain from June through October. That is why I

                thought the pigeon pea might work. If it can grow in the cool wet spring

                and make it to seed by the end of May, it would have a chance.



                David

                Idaho



                On 1/7/2013 5:48 AM, Alan Sloan wrote:

                >

                > Ok,

                >

                > And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the

                > same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening

                > over

                > a period?

                >

                > And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area

                > for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?

                >

                > Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if

                > you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.

                >

                > 1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side

                > of the

                > world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and

                > retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not

                > all about yield.

                >

                > But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany

                > (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by

                > hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye

                > took off

                > in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean

                > fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.

                >

                > Alan

                > England

                >

                > On 7 January 2013 03:52, David dragon@...

                > > wrote:

                >

                > > **

                > >

                > >

                > > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic

                > > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter

                > > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter

                > > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at

                > > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left

                > > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the

                > > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows

                > > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if

                > > it takes hold.

                > >

                > > David

                > > Idaho

                > >

                > >

                > > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:

                > > >

                > > > Hi David,

                > > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion

                > > > do you

                > > > leave for reseeding?

                > > > Would rye be any use?

                > > > ALan

                > > >

                > >

                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                > >

                > >

                > >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















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