Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [fukuoka_farming] Pigeon peas

Expand Messages
  • David
    I have an area that has winter wheat reseeding itself year after year. I run sheep over it once in the spring, and I have been looking for things to add that
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 6, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      I have an area that has winter wheat reseeding itself year after year. I
      run sheep over it once in the spring, and I have been looking for things
      to add that will reseed themselves every year. This might be something
      to try. Being in northern high desert, we have tried several things
      with limited success.

      David
      Idaho

      On 1/6/2013 9:36 AM, d pfalzer wrote:
      >
      > Funny how I have heard rave reviews about pigeon peas from
      > permaculturalists for several years without ever paying attention to
      > how useful they are to me.
      >
      > Now suddenly I have been told the key bits of information (to me) that
      > the beans they made are good to eat and that it makes nice flowers AND
      > now I have thoroughly drunk the kool-aid and want to rave about them
      > too. Someone also has given me a plant -- guess I needed a kick in the
      > butt to get me going with this one.
      >
      > (My research says that pigeon peas are known as red gram in India.)
      >
      > It seems like they will be another effortless food making plant for me
      > here in Florida. (I love plants like that.)
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alan Sloan
      Hi David, Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion do you leave for reseeding? Would rye be any use? ALan ... [Non-text portions of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 6, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi David,
        Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion do you
        leave for reseeding?
        Would rye be any use?
        ALan

        On 6 January 2013 18:43, David <dragon@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I have an area that has winter wheat reseeding itself year after year. I
        > run sheep over it once in the spring, and I have been looking for things
        > to add that will reseed themselves every year. This might be something
        > to try. Being in northern high desert, we have tried several things
        > with limited success.
        >
        > David
        > Idaho
        >
        >
        > On 1/6/2013 9:36 AM, d pfalzer wrote:
        > >
        > > Funny how I have heard rave reviews about pigeon peas from
        > > permaculturalists for several years without ever paying attention to
        > > how useful they are to me.
        > >
        > > Now suddenly I have been told the key bits of information (to me) that
        > > the beans they made are good to eat and that it makes nice flowers AND
        > > now I have thoroughly drunk the kool-aid and want to rave about them
        > > too. Someone also has given me a plant -- guess I needed a kick in the
        > > butt to get me going with this one.
        > >
        > > (My research says that pigeon peas are known as red gram in India.)
        > >
        > > It seems like they will be another effortless food making plant for me
        > > here in Florida. (I love plants like that.)
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David
        We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter over the last
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 6, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic
          matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter
          over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter
          winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at
          a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left
          the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the
          area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows
          last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if
          it takes hold.

          David
          Idaho

          On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:
          >
          > Hi David,
          > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion
          > do you
          > leave for reseeding?
          > Would rye be any use?
          > ALan
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alan Sloan
          Ok, And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening over a
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Ok,

            And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the
            same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening over
            a period?

            And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area
            for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?

            Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if
            you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.

            1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side of the
            world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and
            retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not
            all about yield.

            But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany
            (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by
            hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye took off
            in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean
            fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.

            Alan
            England

            On 7 January 2013 03:52, David <dragon@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic
            > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter
            > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter
            > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at
            > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left
            > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the
            > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows
            > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if
            > it takes hold.
            >
            > David
            > Idaho
            >
            >
            > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi David,
            > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion
            > > do you
            > > leave for reseeding?
            > > Would rye be any use?
            > > ALan
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nandan Palaparambil
            I have seen cowpea cultivated with rice and if it overtakes rice, water is released to weaken it, like frost in your climate. Is this wheat a traditional
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I have seen cowpea cultivated with rice and if it overtakes rice, water is released to weaken it, like frost in your climate.

              Is this wheat a traditional variety or a low height high yielding variety? How tall does this grow?

              Regards,
              Nandan

              --- On Mon, 1/7/13, Alan Sloan <alan851603@...> wrote:

              From: Alan Sloan <alan851603@...>
              Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Pigeon peas
              To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, January 7, 2013, 6:18 PM








               









              Ok,



              And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the

              same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening over

              a period?



              And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area

              for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?



              Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if

              you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.



              1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side of the

              world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and

              retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not

              all about yield.



              But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany

              (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by

              hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye took off

              in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean

              fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.



              Alan

              England



              On 7 January 2013 03:52, David dragon@...> wrote:



              > **

              >

              >

              > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic

              > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter

              > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter

              > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at

              > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left

              > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the

              > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows

              > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if

              > it takes hold.

              >

              > David

              > Idaho

              >

              >

              > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:

              > >

              > > Hi David,

              > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion

              > > do you

              > > leave for reseeding?

              > > Would rye be any use?

              > > ALan

              > >

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

              >

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David
              Alan, and Nandan, The area in wheat has young trees around the perimeter. We planted them for wind break and shade. Also, although we in a desert, there is
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Alan, and Nandan,
                The area in wheat has young trees around the perimeter. We planted them
                for wind break and shade. Also, although we in a desert, there is water
                as little as 14 ft. (5m) down. Most wells above in our area above 100
                ft. have nitrate contamination due to the intensive chemical based
                agriculture in the area. Our hope is that the trees will pull some of
                the nitrates from the ground, with the water. The wheat that is shaded
                matures later than the wheat in full sun, but other than that it all
                ripens at the same time.

                The density of the wheat does not come close to the density of the
                commercial farms in the area. I posted a photo that uses the wheat as a
                background for one of our ewes to give an idea as to the height and
                density. She is about 27in. (69cm) at the shoulder (withers).

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1265216517/pic/1062051695/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

                The wheat was seeded originally with an unknown variety. I got about 12
                lbs.(5.5kg) from a pile that was spilled on the side of the road by a
                truck hauling it. So, I expect that the original was a hybrid variety
                that has devolved to one of its predecessors. It is very stable and
                consistent year after year with good kernels.

                The thing that limits most summer growing plants here is the high
                temperatures and lack of rain from June through October. That is why I
                thought the pigeon pea might work. If it can grow in the cool wet spring
                and make it to seed by the end of May, it would have a chance.

                David
                Idaho


                On 1/7/2013 5:48 AM, Alan Sloan wrote:
                >
                > Ok,
                >
                > And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the
                > same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening
                > over
                > a period?
                >
                > And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area
                > for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?
                >
                > Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if
                > you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.
                >
                > 1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side
                > of the
                > world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and
                > retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not
                > all about yield.
                >
                > But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany
                > (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by
                > hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye
                > took off
                > in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean
                > fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.
                >
                > Alan
                > England
                >
                > On 7 January 2013 03:52, David dragon@...
                > <mailto:dragon%40owlandragon.com>> wrote:
                >
                > > **
                > >
                > >
                > > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic
                > > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter
                > > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter
                > > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at
                > > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left
                > > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the
                > > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows
                > > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if
                > > it takes hold.
                > >
                > > David
                > > Idaho
                > >
                > >
                > > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi David,
                > > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion
                > > > do you
                > > > leave for reseeding?
                > > > Would rye be any use?
                > > > ALan
                > > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nandan Palaparambil
                This wheat looks really good, it has established neatly.. Never thought reseeding can bringup crops like this..Thanks for sharing this photo.. Regards, Nandan
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 7, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  This wheat looks really good, it has established neatly.. Never thought reseeding can bringup crops like this..Thanks for sharing this photo..


                  Regards,
                  Nandan

                  --- On Tue, 1/8/13, David <dragon@...> wrote:

                  From: David <dragon@...>
                  Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Pigeon peas
                  To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, January 8, 2013, 11:17 AM








                   











                  Alan, and Nandan,

                  The area in wheat has young trees around the perimeter. We planted them

                  for wind break and shade. Also, although we in a desert, there is water

                  as little as 14 ft. (5m) down. Most wells above in our area above 100

                  ft. have nitrate contamination due to the intensive chemical based

                  agriculture in the area. Our hope is that the trees will pull some of

                  the nitrates from the ground, with the water. The wheat that is shaded

                  matures later than the wheat in full sun, but other than that it all

                  ripens at the same time.



                  The density of the wheat does not come close to the density of the

                  commercial farms in the area. I posted a photo that uses the wheat as a

                  background for one of our ewes to give an idea as to the height and

                  density. She is about 27in. (69cm) at the shoulder (withers).



                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/photos/album/1265216517/pic/1062051695/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc



                  The wheat was seeded originally with an unknown variety. I got about 12

                  lbs.(5.5kg) from a pile that was spilled on the side of the road by a

                  truck hauling it. So, I expect that the original was a hybrid variety

                  that has devolved to one of its predecessors. It is very stable and

                  consistent year after year with good kernels.



                  The thing that limits most summer growing plants here is the high

                  temperatures and lack of rain from June through October. That is why I

                  thought the pigeon pea might work. If it can grow in the cool wet spring

                  and make it to seed by the end of May, it would have a chance.



                  David

                  Idaho



                  On 1/7/2013 5:48 AM, Alan Sloan wrote:

                  >

                  > Ok,

                  >

                  > And how time-consistent is the grain yield, ie does it all ripen at the

                  > same time or do you get a divergence over time so the seed is ripening

                  > over

                  > a period?

                  >

                  > And is there any way to guess a "natural" potential grain yield per area

                  > for vegetarian humans as opposed to turkeys?

                  >

                  > Oh Wow, sorry, so many questions... its just curiosity, so don't worry if

                  > you've no time to reply - Thanks for getting back to me this time.

                  >

                  > 1" of humus in 10 years is great and benefiting me on the other side

                  > of the

                  > world, thank you!. It's pulling carbon down out of the atmosphere and

                  > retaining water and nutrients so there's a 4 dimensional aspect, its not

                  > all about yield.

                  >

                  > But to intensify the grain yield, I heard of a Rye-beans system in Germany

                  > (cold winters) where rye was planted with beans, the beans got cut down by

                  > hard spring frosts and were decaying as soil warmed up and the rye

                  > took off

                  > in the spring. That was a ploughing method, but I wonder if a bean

                  > fertiliser principle could be added into your mix.

                  >

                  > Alan

                  > England

                  >

                  > On 7 January 2013 03:52, David dragon@...

                  > > wrote:

                  >

                  > > **

                  > >

                  > >

                  > > We have left it fallow, our soil is fine sand (dust) with little organic

                  > > matter. The wheat has built up a 1 inch (2.5 cm) layer of organic matter

                  > > over the last 10 years, and acted as a cover crop during our winter

                  > > winds. The winds are commonly 40 mph (64 kph) We have converted a bit at

                  > > a time to pasture, and other than the one grazing in the spring, left

                  > > the wheat for the wild turkeys, pheasant, and quail that frequent the

                  > > area. I believe there is a winter rye that could work, our winter lows

                  > > last week were -4*F (-20C). I scattered some chicory last fall to see if

                  > > it takes hold.

                  > >

                  > > David

                  > > Idaho

                  > >

                  > >

                  > > On 1/6/2013 2:28 PM, Alan Sloan wrote:

                  > > >

                  > > > Hi David,

                  > > > Do harvest the wheat if so is it by hand, and if so, what proportion

                  > > > do you

                  > > > leave for reseeding?

                  > > > Would rye be any use?

                  > > > ALan

                  > > >

                  > >

                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  > >

                  > >

                  > >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.