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Re: [fukuoka_farming] hugelkultur saves the world

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  • d pfalzer
    Yes, the wood acts as a sponge. It gets wet in the rain and then stays wet for a long time especially when it is buried.
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 9, 2012
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      Yes, the wood acts as a sponge. It gets wet in the rain and then stays wet for a long time especially when it is buried.

      --- On Fri, 11/9/12, Marcos G. <marcos@...> wrote:

      > From: Marcos G. <marcos@...>
      > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] hugelkultur saves the world
      > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, November 9, 2012, 2:04 PM
      > Hi
      >
      > very importante technique, very clear post, but I cant
      > understand why I would never need to water it
      > again... does the wood keeps the water? it's just because of
      > that?
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      > On Wednesday 07 November 2012 18:21:28 paul wheaton wrote:
      > > It's here.  It's done.  After all this
      > time.  Finally!
      > >
      > > My grand hugelkultur video.  This shows the why,
      > the how, and, most
      > > importantly, it shows a hugelkultur bed that has not
      > been irrigated
      > > all summer, packed with food.  And in the
      > background, you see dry,
      > > brown desert-ish sadness in stark contrast to the green
      > lushness.
      > >
      > > http://richsoil.com/hugelkultur#vid
      > >
      > > Imagine:  less urban wood going to the dump; more
      > carbon sequestration
      > > - fight climate change in your own back yard; better
      > garden flavor;
      > > gardening becomes 20 times easier, so people grow more
      > of their own
      > > food; less consumerism (hoses, irrigation systems,
      > sprinklers, etc.);
      > > give a gift to your future self; can this solve world
      > hunger?
      > >
      > > I hope that every person that sees this will think of a
      > way to get it
      > > in front of a thousand other people.  Hope, hope,
      > hope!
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >                
      >    Marcos Guglielmetti
      >                
      >             ▲
      > ::::::::::::::::::      M U S I
      > X   :::::::::::::::::::::     
      >            
      >                
      >             ▼
      >                
      >          ((*J*))
      >                
      >     www.musix.org.ar
      >                
      >      www.ovejafm.com
      >            
      >    www.softwarelibre.org.ar
      > _______________________________________________
      > Para encontrarte con activistas del movimiento social del
      > software libre:
      > http://listas.softwarelibre.org.ar/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/movimiento
      >
      > "The beginning of the mistake is from growing meat for the
      > king and wine for the church."
      > http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC14/Fukuoka.htm
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >     fukuoka_farming-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
    • Ruthie Aquino
      Hi, all the posts above are enlightening. Nothing to throw away just take your pick. As always I choose what is easiest for me. I can t call myself a
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 10, 2012
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        Hi,
        all the posts above are enlightening. Nothing to throw away just take your
        pick.
        As always I choose what is easiest for me.
        I can't call myself a permaculturist, or a natural farmer for that matter,
        not yet, but I think Paul Wheaton's posts are interesting no matter what I
        think of both farming ways.
        Happy farming.
        RUTHIE

        2012/11/9 d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@...>

        > **
        >
        >
        > Yes, the wood acts as a sponge. It gets wet in the rain and then stays wet
        > for a long time especially when it is buried.
        >
        > --- On Fri, 11/9/12, Marcos G. <marcos@...> wrote:
        >
        > > From: Marcos G. <marcos@...>
        > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] hugelkultur saves the world
        > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Friday, November 9, 2012, 2:04 PM
        >
        > > Hi
        > >
        > > very importante technique, very clear post, but I cant
        > > understand why I would never need to water it
        > > again... does the wood keeps the water? it's just because of
        > > that?
        > >
        > > Thanks.
        > >
        > > On Wednesday 07 November 2012 18:21:28 paul wheaton wrote:
        > > > It's here. It's done. After all this
        > > time. Finally!
        > > >
        > > > My grand hugelkultur video. This shows the why,
        > > the how, and, most
        > > > importantly, it shows a hugelkultur bed that has not
        > > been irrigated
        > > > all summer, packed with food. And in the
        > > background, you see dry,
        > > > brown desert-ish sadness in stark contrast to the green
        > > lushness.
        > > >
        > > > http://richsoil.com/hugelkultur#vid
        > > >
        > > > Imagine: less urban wood going to the dump; more
        > > carbon sequestration
        > > > - fight climate change in your own back yard; better
        > > garden flavor;
        > > > gardening becomes 20 times easier, so people grow more
        > > of their own
        > > > food; less consumerism (hoses, irrigation systems,
        > > sprinklers, etc.);
        > > > give a gift to your future self; can this solve world
        > > hunger?
        > > >
        > > > I hope that every person that sees this will think of a
        > > way to get it
        > > > in front of a thousand other people. Hope, hope,
        > > hope!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > >
        > > Marcos Guglielmetti
        > >
        > > ▲
        > > :::::::::::::::::: M U S I
        > > X :::::::::::::::::::::
        > >
        > >
        > > ▼
        > >
        > > ((*J*))
        > >
        > > www.musix.org.ar
        > >
        > > www.ovejafm.com
        > >
        > > www.softwarelibre.org.ar
        > > _______________________________________________
        > > Para encontrarte con activistas del movimiento social del
        > > software libre:
        > > http://listas.softwarelibre.org.ar/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/movimiento
        > >
        > > "The beginning of the mistake is from growing meat for the
        > > king and wine for the church."
        > > http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC14/Fukuoka.htm
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > > fukuoka_farming-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • d pfalzer
        Yes, it is fair to say it isn t what you want to do. Personally, my approach (which is still very new to me -- I certainly don t have all the kinks worked out)
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 10, 2012
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          Yes, it is fair to say it isn't what you want to do.

          Personally, my approach (which is still very new to me -- I certainly don't have all the kinks worked out) isn't to build the "perfect" hugel mound, but to be conscious that dead wood has desirable properties in my garden.

          Nature adds its wood from the top... and lets it be buried over time. This is an easier approach. It also means that, here in a place where decomposition happens quickly, I don't build a fancy mound only to rebuild it in a very few years. Instead I gradually add the sticks and branches that come my way. And perhaps I will bury a few of them whenever I get to digging out my sweet potatoes from that area.
          I'm not thinking that I will intentionally bury them, but as the soil gets shifted around by me in that process some of it will land on top and I will let it be there. That's how nature does it (sometimes). Some creature goes digging by the log and in that process some of the soil lands on top. In my system I am that creature (or one of them).

          --- On Sat, 11/10/12, Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...> wrote:

          > From: Ruthie Aquino <ruthieaquino1@...>
          > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] hugelkultur saves the world
          > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 5:54 AM
          > Hi,
          > all the posts above are enlightening.  Nothing to throw
          > away just take your
          > pick.
          > As always I choose what is easiest for me.
          > I can't call myself a permaculturist, or a natural farmer
          > for that matter,
          > not yet, but I think Paul Wheaton's posts are interesting no
          > matter what I
          > think of both farming ways.
          > Happy farming.
          > RUTHIE
          >
          > 2012/11/9 d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@...>
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Yes, the wood acts as a sponge. It gets wet in the rain
          > and then stays wet
          > > for a long time especially when it is buried.
          > >
          > > --- On Fri, 11/9/12, Marcos G. <marcos@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > > From: Marcos G. <marcos@...>
          > > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] hugelkultur saves
          > the world
          > > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Date: Friday, November 9, 2012, 2:04 PM
          > >
          > > > Hi
          > > >
          > > > very importante technique, very clear post, but I
          > cant
          > > > understand why I would never need to water it
          > > > again... does the wood keeps the water? it's just
          > because of
          > > > that?
          > > >
          > > > Thanks.
          > > >
          > > > On Wednesday 07 November 2012 18:21:28 paul
          > wheaton wrote:
          > > > > It's here.  It's done.  After all
          > this
          > > > time.  Finally!
          > > > >
          > > > > My grand hugelkultur video.  This shows
          > the why,
          > > > the how, and, most
          > > > > importantly, it shows a hugelkultur bed that
          > has not
          > > > been irrigated
          > > > > all summer, packed with food.  And in
          > the
          > > > background, you see dry,
          > > > > brown desert-ish sadness in stark contrast to
          > the green
          > > > lushness.
          > > > >
          > > > > http://richsoil.com/hugelkultur#vid
          > > > >
          > > > > Imagine:  less urban wood going to the
          > dump; more
          > > > carbon sequestration
          > > > > - fight climate change in your own back yard;
          > better
          > > > garden flavor;
          > > > > gardening becomes 20 times easier, so people
          > grow more
          > > > of their own
          > > > > food; less consumerism (hoses, irrigation
          > systems,
          > > > sprinklers, etc.);
          > > > > give a gift to your future self; can this
          > solve world
          > > > hunger?
          > > > >
          > > > > I hope that every person that sees this will
          > think of a
          > > > way to get it
          > > > > in front of a thousand other people. 
          > Hope, hope,
          > > > hope!
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > >
          > > >    Marcos Guglielmetti
          > > >
          > > >         
          >    ▲
          > > > ::::::::::::::::::      M U S I
          > > > X   :::::::::::::::::::::
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >         
          >    ▼
          > > >
          > > >          ((*J*))
          > > >
          > > >     www.musix.org.ar
          > > >
          > > >      www.ovejafm.com
          > > >
          > > >    www.softwarelibre.org.ar
          > > > _______________________________________________
          > > > Para encontrarte con activistas del movimiento
          > social del
          > > > software libre:
          > > > http://listas.softwarelibre.org.ar/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/movimiento
          > > >
          > > > "The beginning of the mistake is from growing meat
          > for the
          > > > king and wine for the church."
          > > > http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC14/Fukuoka.htm
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >     fukuoka_farming-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > 
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >     fukuoka_farming-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
        • trenthillsmike
          In Fukuoka s own words, Let us talk about how I went about restoring those barren mountain slopes. After the war, the technique of deeply cultivating a citrus
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 11, 2012
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            In Fukuoka's own words,


            "Let us talk about how I went about restoring those barren mountain slopes. After the war, the technique of deeply cultivating a citrus orchard and digging holes for adding organic matter was being encouraged. When I returned from the testing centre, I tried doing this in my own orchard. After a few years I came to the conclusion that this method is not only physically exhausting, but, as far as improving the soil is concerned, is just plain useless.

            At first, I buried straw and ferns, which I had brought down, from the mountain. Carrying loads of 90 pounds and more was a big job, but after two or three years, there was not even enough humus to scoop up in my hand. The trenches I had dug to bury the organic matter caved in and turned into open pits.

            Next, I tried burying wood. It seems that straw would be the best aid for improving the soil, but judging from the amount of soil formed, wood is better. This is fine as long as there are trees to cut. However, for someone without trees nearby, it is better to grow the wood right in the orchard than to haul it from a distance.

            In my orchard, there are pines and cedar trees, a few pear trees, persimmons, loquats, Japanese cherries, and many other native varieties growing among the citrus trees. One of the most interesting trees, though not a native, is the Morishima acacia. This is the same tree I mentioned earlier in connection with ladybirds and natural
            predator protection. The wood is hard, the flowers attract bees, and the leaves are good for fodder. It helps to prevent insect damage in the orchard, acts as a windbreak, and the rhizobium bacteria living within the roots fertilize the soil.

            This tree was introduced to Japan from Australia some years ago and grows faster than any tree I have ever seen. It sends out a deep root in just a few months and in six or seven years it stands as tall as a telephone pole. In addition, this tree is a nitrogen fixer, so if 6 to 10 trees are planted to the quarter acre, soil improvement can be carried out in the deep soil strata and there is no need to break your back hauling logs down the mountain."

            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

            It was Fukuoka that tried hugelkultur and decided it was a lot of work. So he planted a nitrogen fixing tree seed and said that he would let the tree create the hugelkultur for him.
          • Brian Kennedy
            Thank you, Mike, for finding the quote and taking the trouble to repeat it here. I find it frustrating that people try to promote things that are obvious steps
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 2, 2012
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              Thank you, Mike, for finding the quote and taking the trouble to repeat it here. I find it frustrating that people try to promote things that are obvious steps backward here (if one has studied the basic foundation literature.) They are just creating confusion and wasting people's time, not to mention wasting fossil fuels and making an ugly mess of the landscape.
              On Nov 11, 2012, at 3:50 AM, trenthillsmike wrote:

              > In Fukuoka's own words,
              >
              > "Let us talk about how I went about restoring those barren mountain slopes. After the war, the technique of deeply cultivating a citrus orchard and digging holes for adding organic matter was being encouraged. When I returned from the testing centre, I tried doing this in my own orchard. After a few years I came to the conclusion that this method is not only physically exhausting, but, as far as improving the soil is concerned, is just plain useless.
              >
              > At first, I buried straw and ferns, which I had brought down, from the mountain. Carrying loads of 90 pounds and more was a big job, but after two or three years, there was not even enough humus to scoop up in my hand. The trenches I had dug to bury the organic matter caved in and turned into open pits.
              >
              > Next, I tried burying wood. It seems that straw would be the best aid for improving the soil, but judging from the amount of soil formed, wood is better. This is fine as long as there are trees to cut. However, for someone without trees nearby, it is better to grow the wood right in the orchard than to haul it from a distance.
              >
              > In my orchard, there are pines and cedar trees, a few pear trees, persimmons, loquats, Japanese cherries, and many other native varieties growing among the citrus trees. One of the most interesting trees, though not a native, is the Morishima acacia. This is the same tree I mentioned earlier in connection with ladybirds and natural
              > predator protection. The wood is hard, the flowers attract bees, and the leaves are good for fodder. It helps to prevent insect damage in the orchard, acts as a windbreak, and the rhizobium bacteria living within the roots fertilize the soil.
              >
              > This tree was introduced to Japan from Australia some years ago and grows faster than any tree I have ever seen. It sends out a deep root in just a few months and in six or seven years it stands as tall as a telephone pole. In addition, this tree is a nitrogen fixer, so if 6 to 10 trees are planted to the quarter acre, soil improvement can be carried out in the deep soil strata and there is no need to break your back hauling logs down the mountain."
              >
              > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
              >
              > It was Fukuoka that tried hugelkultur and decided it was a lot of work. So he planted a nitrogen fixing tree seed and said that he would let the tree create the hugelkultur for him.
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • trenthillsmike
              Hello Brian, I much prefer to leave my logs and brush in piles where I ve collected them when I need to collect them. Normally, I try to leave them where they
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 3, 2012
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                Hello Brian,

                I much prefer to leave my logs and brush in piles where I've collected them when I need to collect them. Normally, I try to leave them where they fall. I've observed that they become magnets for insects and other wildlife as Nature does whatever she will with them. I'm only just realizing that the less that I try to do, the more that I seem to accomplish. I'm still trying to understand how that can be. I wonder if Fukuoka would see that as encapsulating do nothing.

                Hugelkultur may have it's place in permaculture but I don't think that has anything to do with the essence of natural farming. I think also that using anything other than handtools gets one on a very complicated path that can't be understood. Despite our complex brains, we seem to function better by keeping life and the processes of life simple.

                Mike

                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Brian Kennedy <thefreedomofcraft1@...> wrote:

                Thank you, Mike, for finding the quote and taking the trouble to repeat it here. I find it frustrating that people try to promote things that are obvious steps backward here (if one has studied the basic foundation literature.) They are just creating confusion and wasting people's time, not to mention wasting fossil fuels and making an ugly mess of the landscape.
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