Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: new fukuoka forum and ungrateful control freakery at permies.com

Expand Messages
  • venaurafarm
    ... Not to leave the discussion in its present state in the hopes of making peace, I would suggest that Iyo is Japanese, English is his second language and the
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      On 9/30/2012 10:49 AM, iyo_farm wrote:
      > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

      Not to leave the discussion in its present state in the hopes of making
      peace, I would suggest that Iyo is Japanese, English is his second
      language and the problems he has had are ones of miscommunication
      because of the language barrier. I can tell by reading his posts here
      that he is not familiar with certain aspects of English usage and. I
      would offer him support in continued forum participation and hope that
      others, Paul included, would take this into consideration. I would in my
      forum. How many of us can speak, much less write, Japanese?

      shameless plug for my list, group, blog should anyone be interested in
      making use of these resources:

      permaculture mailing list
      http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
      fukuokanaturalfarming group
      https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/fukuokanaturalfarming
      fukuokanaturalfarming blog
      http://fukuokanaturalfarming.blogspot.com/

      LL
      lfljvenaura@...
      venaurafarm@...
      gardening and farming hand tool info and pictures
      www.avantgeared.com Avant Geared
      Hazelip & Bonfils
      http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/
    • Sumant Joshi
      LOL, ooooh don t we all love THAT!! Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards, Sumant Joshi Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161 ... [Non-text portions of this
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        LOL, ooooh don't we all love THAT!!



        Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


        Warm regards,

        Sumant Joshi
        Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



        >________________________________
        > From: Jason Wicker <jaywicker@...>
        >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Sunday, 30 September 2012 9:14 PM
        >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: new fukuoka forum and ungrateful control freakery at permies.com
        >
        >

        >IYO is being argumentative, wholly chicken shit........:)
        >
        >On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:18 AM, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Not only has the discussion of the naming stuff been discussed on permies
        >> for years, with hundreds of people, it has been discussed by thousands on
        >> my larger forums for over a decade. And on the pre-internet on-line sites
        >> I managed before that.
        >>
        >> It is my preference. Some enjoy it. Others use a different web site.
        >>
        >> Thousands of people have told me that I am wrong and need to do something
        >> different. The comedy is that while a thousand will tell me that I have to
        >> be black, another thousand will tell me I have to be white. I cannot
        >> please everybody. So I please myself and those that seem to like the
        >> flavor I have chosen.
        >>
        >> Here are a couple of threads that might help:
        >> http://www.permies.com/t/12726
        >> http://www.permies.com/t/13745
        >>
        >> Permies.com is not for everybody. It is for that one person out of 20,000
        >> that is keen on the things I am keen on. Including real sounding names and
        >> my idea of respectful communication.
        >>
        >> It has been surprising to me that so many thousands of people seem to enjoy
        >> the environment I have created.
        >>
        >>
        >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 8:49 AM, iyo_farm <iyo.farm@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> > **
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
        >> >
        >> > > tolerate my tyranny
        >> >
        >> > Why is the naming policy such a big issue for you Paul? What's the
        >> history?
        >> >
        >> > It seems a pretty petty one to fall out with people ... and start playing
        >> > "Bash the Gopher".
        >> >
        >> > http://www.1archive.com/game/gopherbash/index.html
        >> >
        >> > As to the lack of ability to tolerate a perfectly reasonable democratic
        >> > discussion of a policy by numerous members of said community ... what
        >> can I
        >> > say!?!
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> --
        >>
        >> Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world domination:
        >> http://www.richsoil.com/email.jsp
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >--
        >Thanks and all the best,
        >Jason
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jason Stewart
        A house of BS! Anonymous (false...) you have provided no bona fides. Eg.: ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          A house of BS!
          Anonymous (false...) you have provided no bona fides.

          Eg.:
          On 30/09/2012, at 11:13 PM, (false) iyo_farm wrote:

          > Why cannot a farmer promote their farm by using its name on it



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jason Stewart
          Many unpleasant experiences with them since Feb. 2011 (in WP), indicates to me they are very much Anglophone from their set of peculiar values, cannot possible
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Many unpleasant experiences with them since Feb. 2011 (in WP),
            indicates to me they are very much Anglophone from their set of peculiar values, cannot possible be Japanese nor have any Japanese thinking/philosophy/upbringing and with regards to their English language comprehension *suffer* from some dyslexia... . I feel sorry for them for that, but never identify with any person who attacks me, let alone with a pattern of attacks since 2011 Feb.. Their problems are their problems and their responsibilities alone, and i will never take responsibility nor blame for them. My 'mountains' of written evidence, not LL's speculation at all, buttress my experiences.

            For a while i thought they may be one of those very poorly paid (treated like underclass job slaves) overseas workers within Japan, from Bangladesh, India, China, or Phillipines. I met numerous very hard working people when i was in Japan in year 2000 with my Japanese ex-fianc� and family. They were poor paid cleaners and service staff � in the USA tv media the stereotype of the poorly paid US tv janitor is evoked here to evoke the same meaning in you.
            That idea i scotched completely many months ago, for certain evidences.
            ...

            On 01/10/2012, at 7:54 AM, venaurafarm wrote:

            > On 9/30/2012 10:49 AM, iyo_farm wrote:
            > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
            >
            > Not to leave the discussion in its present state in the hopes of making
            > peace, I would suggest that Iyo is Japanese, English is his second
            > language and the problems he has had are ones of miscommunication
            > because of the language barrier. I can tell by reading his posts here
            > that he is not familiar with certain aspects of English usage and. I
            > would offer him support in continued forum participation and hope that
            > others, Paul included, would take this into consideration. I would in my
            > forum. How many of us can speak, much less write, Japanese?
            >
            > shameless plug for my list, group, blog should anyone be interested in
            > making use of these resources:
            >
            > permaculture mailing list
            > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
            > fukuokanaturalfarming group
            > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/fukuokanaturalfarming
            > fukuokanaturalfarming blog
            > http://fukuokanaturalfarming.blogspot.com/
            >
            > LL
            > lfljvenaura@...
            > venaurafarm@...
            > gardening and farming hand tool info and pictures
            > www.avantgeared.com Avant Geared
            > Hazelip & Bonfils
            > http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/souscayrous/
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • iyo_farm
            ... Please excuse Jason, Paul. He is only a wannabe volleyball farmer and we are all trying to help him grow them organically. We hope he is going to grow some
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jason Wicker <jaywicker@...> wrote:

              > IYO is being argumentative, wholly chicken shit........:)

              Please excuse Jason, Paul. He is only a wannabe volleyball farmer and we are all trying to help him grow them organically. We hope he is going to grow some beach volleyballs so we can all come and watch, I believe you Americans call it 'butt crack ball' or something.

              Paul, if ever you come to Japan, you must join me for some chinko nabi. I think it will be very much to your taste.

              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

              > Not only has the discussion of the naming stuff been discussed on permies
              > for years, with hundreds of people, it has been discussed by thousands on
              > my larger forums for over a decade ... It is my preference. Some enjoy it.
              > Others use a different web site.

              Paul, you avoided answering any of my questions or the issues I raised. I cannot read your links because you childishly blocked my IP address.

              You may well be the 'King of Internet Forums' but why I chose not to take your forum too seriously was because of the inept and heavy handed manner of your moderation ... and I was a bad sign when whoever chopped up my discussion could not spell FUKUOKA.

              I raised the matter with Larry in private, it completely spoilt the discussion. I'm glad you are happy with the idea of a Fukuoka forum, I just don't know who you are going to get to keep it informed and on track.

              It seems you're just another one of those typically loud mouth Americans we meet too often on the "anti-social media"; all broadcast and no communication ... and, yes, "tyranny" in the name of democracy. I am glad you at least honest about. In Japan, we've had a little too much of American style policy.

              (Apologies to all the good Americans out there, you know who you are and these people are and apologies to our Indian colleagues who dislike such disharmonious discussions. Please trust me, there is no other way to speak to these people. I tried polite reasoning and good humor. They don't get it).

              Actually, I would have been quite happy to play the game as regards the naming policy. I simply never read it. What made me quickly lose respect was the artless manner in which reasonably interesting discussion between two individuals was chopped about, interrupted, moved and fiddled about with ... presumably by unpaid workers you employ in your business?

              It all struck me as a little bit obsessively attentive which may well be permiesculture but goes against the spirit of Fukuoka's Natural Farming.

              If all you want is unchallenging and obedient sheep on your farm, and to fiddle with them, that that is up to you. I prefer things a little more wild and interesting.
            • paul wheaton
              In reading your most recent post, I think I made a wise choice in banning you. It is my opinion that permies.com is a kinder, better site for the lack of ...
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                In reading your most recent post, I think I made a wise choice in banning
                you. It is my opinion that permies.com is a kinder, better site for the
                lack of ... you. You call me childish and loud mouthed, and you expect me
                to answer your questions.

                Based on this, I'm surprised that everybody on this list doesn't set up
                shop just so they can have conversations without this sort of thing.
                Because on permies, it is deleted. And people that post this sort of thing
                repeatedly, are banned.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • iyo_farm
                Oh, sorry. I was offering Joisey Shore Jason to taste my chinko nabi, not Paul. I am amazed how even now Paul is unwilling to discuss women s need of some
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Oh, sorry. I was offering Joisey Shore Jason to taste my chinko nabi, not Paul.

                  I am amazed how even now Paul is unwilling to discuss women's need of some protection and anonymity on the internet.

                  --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...> wrote:

                  > Many unpleasant experiences with them since Feb. 2011 (in WP),

                  Jason Stewart, please ... we've been over this before. Everything has already been said.

                  You were making an unreadable mess of the Wikipedia topic. I am sorry if your feeling were hurt but a number of editors tried many times to engage you in discussion about it. You have an idiosyncratic style which can be unreadable as many of your posts here are. Others here have agree with that.

                  I accept you have an encyclopaediac knowledge of plants and Fukuoka-related issues, or Fukuka as the Permies call him, and I would still encourage you and would support you to develop somewhere online.


                  (Now all we need are the Opus Dei members to get back onto their Pro-Life campaign and start having more babies ... even though we don't have enough food to feed all the ones that exist at present ... and we will have had another complete cycle of complaints here at Fukuoka Farming).
                • iyo_farm
                  ... Churlish would have been a better choice but I did not have a dictionary at hand. Come on, I gave your moderator the idea of Fukuoka forum and then you
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

                    > You call me childish and loud mouthed, and you expect me to answer your questions.

                    "Churlish" would have been a better choice but I did not have a dictionary at hand.


                    Come on, I gave your moderator the idea of Fukuoka forum and then you blocked me only from the topics I was discussing about Fukuoka with Larry mid-discussion. Was I offending him? Was he not grateful for the updates and information I was giving?


                    What I am really calling you is a control freak who obviously prefers to be surrounded by (and no doubt worshipped by) obedient sheep who accept your interference in their discussions.

                    Actually I am presuming it was your unpaid workers who messed around and interfered with the discussion at their whim but, as the boss, you have to take responsibility for the policies you autocratically set and how they are enacted.

                    If you are going to invite more VIPs onto your forums you are going to have to run their Q&A more smoothly.
                  • paul wheaton
                    And I m still feeling it was really smart of me to ban you. I was certain I had good reason before. Now the good reason pile is about three times bigger.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      And I'm still feeling it was really smart of me to ban you. I was certain
                      I had good reason before. Now the good reason pile is about three times
                      bigger.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jason Stewart
                      It s a complete waste of time writing technically word perfect English to you anonymous (false ... is it in fact i-Dal instead of i-Yo!?!). You don t get it at
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It's a complete waste of time writing technically word perfect English to you anonymous (false ... is it in fact i-Dal instead of i-Yo!?!). You don't get it at all (anyway).
                        So ... !
                      • Sumant Joshi
                        Paul and Jason, please  please, could you both please continue this discussion using your private emails?? please!!   Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Paul and Jason, please  please, could you both please continue this discussion using your private emails??

                          please!!
                           



                          Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


                          Warm regards,

                          Sumant Joshi
                          Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



                          >________________________________
                          > From: iyo_farm <iyo.farm@...>
                          >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          >Sent: Monday, 1 October 2012 10:50 AM
                          >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: new fukuoka forum and ungrateful control freakery at permies.com
                          >
                          >

                          >--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> You call me childish and loud mouthed, and you expect me to answer your questions.
                          >
                          >"Churlish" would have been a better choice but I did not have a dictionary at hand.
                          >
                          >Come on, I gave your moderator the idea of Fukuoka forum and then you blocked me only from the topics I was discussing about Fukuoka with Larry mid-discussion. Was I offending him? Was he not grateful for the updates and information I was giving?
                          >
                          >What I am really calling you is a control freak who obviously prefers to be surrounded by (and no doubt worshipped by) obedient sheep who accept your interference in their discussions.
                          >
                          >Actually I am presuming it was your unpaid workers who messed around and interfered with the discussion at their whim but, as the boss, you have to take responsibility for the policies you autocratically set and how they are enacted.
                          >
                          >If you are going to invite more VIPs onto your forums you are going to have to run their Q&A more smoothly.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • iyo_farm
                          ... Typical American freedom of speech again. It s free for them, and everyone else has to agree. Democracy is what they say and you bow to, and what is in the
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

                            > And I'm still feeling it was really smart of me to ban you. I was certain
                            > I had good reason before. Now the good reason pile is about three times
                            > bigger.

                            Typical American freedom of speech again. It's free for them, and everyone else has to agree. Democracy is what they say and you bow to, and what is in the interest of their business (... beside which me and my bamboo spears are still members of your forum).

                            Let's be clear about what happened and what goes on at Permies.com ...

                            • I got banned because stood up to support two other women who would upset by the control freakery over names in a perfectly polite and reasonable manner. One who wanted anonymity and was upset at her whole name being published against her will, and one who wanted to continue to use the nickname other people recognized her by.

                            • I argued the internet is not a safe place and that it was entirely reasonable to do so. You're not going to be there to protect them when some stalker latches onto them.

                            Is that anti-American behavior?

                            Prior to that:

                            • The titles of my posts were edit embarrassing me in front of Larry Korn by misspelling Fukuka.
                            • Numerous posts were split off or moved to other forums mid-conversation without notice, so questions were lost.
                            • My signature was removed, again without notice
                            • I was specifically blocked from only those topics with Larry Korn (how childish can you get?) ... I was being "punished" by not letting me even read Larry's answers which he and others were enjoying.
                            • I was banned without any notice or discussion for using a nickname because I had not read the all terms and conditions of an discussion forum (who does!?!)
                            • I lost all private messages and contact information others, who enjoyed my posts had sent me.

                            Oh, a moderator did warned me that I "better not piss off Paul any more" by being honest I was using a fake name (which is according to policy as long as it looks real).

                            OK, let's ignore the issue of women's online privacy or their business rights, as I asked you before, why is this such a big issue for you Paul? Don't you think it is a being little too obsessive and control freaky? I mean, how can you tell if all those other are *really* using their real names?


                            You see, one of the other problems with online forums is that it is difficult to trust the people that run them and what they might do with your private information. Such faceless rigidity ... not once did you contact me to discuss the issue ... is not conducive to trust.

                            It is also pretty damned arrogant to be honest.
                          • iyo_farm
                            Any other Japanese, or registered aliens in Japan, on the list interested in land prices and availability in Japan? I am sorry, you are probably silenced by
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 30, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Any other Japanese, or registered aliens in Japan, on the list interested in land prices and availability in Japan?

                              I am sorry, you are probably silenced by such conflict but it is the only way to speak to these people, and aliens who do not live in Japan cannot apply. Actually I think only those with Japanese citizenships can own farm land so their wives but have to buy it.

                              This is interesting but also the problem we have starting off in Japan.

                              http://agri.nca.or.jp/modules/bukken/index.php

                              Some of this land is "requiring restoration" which means has not been worked for long time but look at the price of it!

                              I found a really nice plot producing 300kg per year chestnuts from mature tree which could be turned into mixed use Fukuoka style but calculated it would cost 28 years to pay it back and that is with super low interest we have in Japan!

                              Some of the land is also "open to offers". Most of it is very rural.

                              But, please enjoy. They are many nice pictures of the inaka gives an accurate view of life here. Note also typical small plot size some as low as 10m2!

                              This is Japanese National Chamber of Agriculture site.

                              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...> wrote:

                              > It's a complete waste of time writing technically word perfect English to you anonymous (false ... is it in fact i-Dal instead of i-Yo!?!). You don't get it at all (anyway).

                              The other editors on Wikipedia don't agree with you. I support them, but I also support you to start your own online resource. What happens if you hit your head and damage your brain more? Everything will be lost. Please write it all down somewhere first.
                            • paul wheaton
                              2/3 of that is complete fiction. The remaining third is crazy frosting on the icky things you did. It seems that despite folks explaining it to you, you still
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                2/3 of that is complete fiction. The remaining third is crazy frosting on
                                the icky things you did.

                                It seems that despite folks explaining it to you, you still have no idea
                                why you are banned: you are mean and rude.

                                This is not freedom of speech. This is freedom of the press. Freedom of
                                the press belongs to those that own one. You should buy one: web sites are
                                pretty cheap.

                                I choose to not publish your hate speech.

                                I announced here that permies is strongly moderated and not for everybody.
                                You came, tested the boundaries, your nasty was deleted, you posted more
                                nasty, it was deleted and you were banned. Simple. My site, my choice.
                                You get your own site and you can manage it as you see fit. Be the change
                                you wish to see in the world.

                                On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 12:22 AM, iyo_farm <iyo.farm@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > And I'm still feeling it was really smart of me to ban you. I was certain
                                > > I had good reason before. Now the good reason pile is about three times
                                > > bigger.
                                >
                                > Typical American freedom of speech again. It's free for them, and everyone
                                > else has to agree. Democracy is what they say and you bow to, and what is
                                > in the interest of their business (... beside which me and my bamboo spears
                                > are still members of your forum).
                                >
                                > Let's be clear about what happened and what goes on at Permies.com ...
                                >
                                > ��� I got banned because stood up to support two other women who would
                                > upset by the control freakery over names in a perfectly polite and
                                > reasonable manner. One who wanted anonymity and was upset at her whole name
                                > being published against her will, and one who wanted to continue to use the
                                > nickname other people recognized her by.
                                >
                                > ��� I argued the internet is not a safe place and that it was entirely
                                > reasonable to do so. You're not going to be there to protect them when some
                                > stalker latches onto them.
                                >
                                > Is that anti-American behavior?
                                >
                                > Prior to that:
                                >
                                > ��� The titles of my posts were edit embarrassing me in front of Larry
                                > Korn by misspelling Fukuka.
                                > ��� Numerous posts were split off or moved to other forums
                                > mid-conversation without notice, so questions were lost.
                                > ��� My signature was removed, again without notice
                                > ��� I was specifically blocked from only those topics with Larry Korn (how
                                > childish can you get?) ... I was being "punished" by not letting me even
                                > read Larry's answers which he and others were enjoying.
                                > ��� I was banned without any notice or discussion for using a nickname
                                > because I had not read the all terms and conditions of an discussion forum
                                > (who does!?!)
                                > ��� I lost all private messages and contact information others, who
                                > enjoyed my posts had sent me.
                                >
                                > Oh, a moderator did warned me that I "better not piss off Paul any more"
                                > by being honest I was using a fake name (which is according to policy as
                                > long as it looks real).
                                >
                                > OK, let's ignore the issue of women's online privacy or their business
                                > rights, as I asked you before, why is this such a big issue for you Paul?
                                > Don't you think it is a being little too obsessive and control freaky? I
                                > mean, how can you tell if all those other are *really* using their real
                                > names?
                                >
                                > You see, one of the other problems with online forums is that it is
                                > difficult to trust the people that run them and what they might do with
                                > your private information. Such faceless rigidity ... not once did you
                                > contact me to discuss the issue ... is not conducive to trust.
                                >
                                > It is also pretty damned arrogant to be honest.
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --

                                Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world domination:
                                http://www.richsoil.com/email.jsp


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • paul wheaton
                                ... Sumant, I understand your desire. This is why I prefer forums: if somebody says icky, off-topic things, it can be removed. Or if people ask questions
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > Paul and Jason, please please, could you both please continue this discussion using your private emails??
                                  >
                                  > please!!

                                  Sumant,

                                  I understand your desire. This is why I prefer forums: if somebody
                                  says icky, off-topic things, it can be removed. Or if people ask
                                  questions about the way things are managed, that can be moved to
                                  another forum, which you can skip over.

                                  The end result is a collection of discussions that are very topical
                                  and free of ick.

                                  Here, on a mailing list, you have to work with the limitations of the
                                  medium and the psychology of the mass that consumes this information.
                                  Awkward.

                                  --

                                  Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world
                                  domination: http://www.richsoil.com/email.jsp
                                • Jason Wicker
                                  I vote to ban IYO on this forum..all in favor please chim in. Jason from NJ ... -- Thanks and all the best, Jason [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I vote to ban IYO on this forum..all in favor please chim in.
                                    Jason from NJ




                                    On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:58 AM, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > Paul and Jason, please please, could you both please continue this
                                    > discussion using your private emails??
                                    > >
                                    > > please!!
                                    >
                                    > Sumant,
                                    >
                                    > I understand your desire. This is why I prefer forums: if somebody
                                    > says icky, off-topic things, it can be removed. Or if people ask
                                    > questions about the way things are managed, that can be moved to
                                    > another forum, which you can skip over.
                                    >
                                    > The end result is a collection of discussions that are very topical
                                    > and free of ick.
                                    >
                                    > Here, on a mailing list, you have to work with the limitations of the
                                    > medium and the psychology of the mass that consumes this information.
                                    > Awkward.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    >
                                    > Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world
                                    > domination: http://www.richsoil.com/email.jsp
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    Thanks and all the best,
                                    Jason


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jason Stewart
                                    Could be you in your shadow form, though, a walking dead than needs a proper burial. Just sayin .
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Could be you in your shadow form, though, a walking dead than needs a proper burial.
                                      Just sayin'.

                                      On 02/10/2012, at 12:38 AM, Jason Wicker wrote:

                                      > I vote to ban IYO on this forum..all in favor please chim in.
                                      > Jason from NJ
                                    • Jason Wicker
                                      No, I am me and he is him..do you want to vote him out or not? ... -- Thanks and all the best, Jason [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        No, I am me and he is him..do you want to vote him out or not?

                                        On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Could be you in your shadow form, though, a walking dead than needs a
                                        > proper burial.
                                        > Just sayin'.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 02/10/2012, at 12:38 AM, Jason Wicker wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > I vote to ban IYO on this forum..all in favor please chim in.
                                        > > Jason from NJ
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        --
                                        Thanks and all the best,
                                        Jason


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • iyo_farm
                                        You re bullshitting Paul and creating a straw man to justify what really went on. Do you know how petty it gets on Permies.com for users and how much they
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          You're bullshitting Paul and creating a straw man to justify what really went on. Do you know how petty it gets on Permies.com for users and how much they interfere with people's posts?


                                          Perhaps you're not in full control of your faceless moderators, or do not know what they get up to. Or even how many attack new users. Or even what they think of your policies based on the apologies and warning one gave one. However, as a business owner, you should be mature enough to accept feedback and criticism and discuss fair issues like the need for a woman's privacy online.


                                          We were invited to ask Larry Korn questions and after becoming tired of having my posts moved, embarrassingly edited, or hidden in other forum mid-discussion ... and answered by other people who did therefore could not see I was asking Larry ... I simply prefix one [For Larry Korn] and then asked the question.

                                          They even had to edit that off!!! I mean ... why? It is another sekret rule?

                                          It's logical. It's not "nasty", nor offensive. How many moderators do you have?


                                          If you're going to invite VIP authors on a regular basis, you're going to work out a system which is clear, simple and works.


                                          Tell the people exactly what big sin I did ... I chose a nickname on an internet forum.


                                          Let people judge what I wrote ... try 'Dun Farmin' or 'Pat Mahone'. Polite, respectful, useful and interesting. Ask Larry what he thinks because if you don't I will.


                                          --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

                                          > It seems that despite folks explaining it to you, you still have no idea
                                          > why you are banned: you are mean and rude.
                                          >
                                          > This is not freedom of speech. This is freedom of the press. Freedom of
                                          > the press belongs to those that own one. You should buy one: web sites are
                                          > pretty cheap.
                                          >
                                          > I choose to not publish your hate speech.
                                          >
                                          > I announced here that permies is strongly moderated and not for everybody.
                                          > You came, tested the boundaries, your nasty was deleted, you posted more
                                          > nasty, it was deleted and you were banned. Simple. My site, my choice.
                                          > You get your own site and you can manage it as you see fit. Be the change
                                          > you wish to see in the world.
                                        • paul wheaton
                                          And yet, I feel so good about permies.com. And I feel like the posts there are respectful and informative. 99% because good precedent has been set, and 1%
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            And yet, I feel so good about permies.com. And I feel like the posts there
                                            are respectful and informative. 99% because good precedent has been set,
                                            and 1% because of a bit of pruning of that which .... did not meet our
                                            publication standards.

                                            Please, iyo, keep telling us your theories. You are currently my best
                                            advertisement for forums with heavy moderation. My forums.

                                            On forums, all this sort of stuff gets deleted and people don't see it. On
                                            mailing lists, precision moderation is almost impossible.

                                            On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:34 AM, iyo_farm <iyo.farm@...> wrote:

                                            > **
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > You're bullshitting Paul and creating a straw man to justify what really
                                            > went on. Do you know how petty it gets on Permies.com for users and how
                                            > much they interfere with people's posts?
                                            >
                                            > Perhaps you're not in full control of your faceless moderators, or do not
                                            > know what they get up to. Or even how many attack new users. Or even what
                                            > they think of your policies based on the apologies and warning one gave
                                            > one. However, as a business owner, you should be mature enough to accept
                                            > feedback and criticism and discuss fair issues like the need for a woman's
                                            > privacy online.
                                            >
                                            > We were invited to ask Larry Korn questions and after becoming tired of
                                            > having my posts moved, embarrassingly edited, or hidden in other forum
                                            > mid-discussion ... and answered by other people who did therefore could not
                                            > see I was asking Larry ... I simply prefix one [For Larry Korn] and then
                                            > asked the question.
                                            >
                                            > They even had to edit that off!!! I mean ... why? It is another sekret
                                            > rule?
                                            >
                                            > It's logical. It's not "nasty", nor offensive. How many moderators do you
                                            > have?
                                            >
                                            > If you're going to invite VIP authors on a regular basis, you're going to
                                            > work out a system which is clear, simple and works.
                                            >
                                            > Tell the people exactly what big sin I did ... I chose a nickname on an
                                            > internet forum.
                                            >
                                            > Let people judge what I wrote ... try 'Dun Farmin' or 'Pat Mahone'.
                                            > Polite, respectful, useful and interesting. Ask Larry what he thinks
                                            > because if you don't I will.
                                            >
                                            > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > It seems that despite folks explaining it to you, you still have no idea
                                            > > why you are banned: you are mean and rude.
                                            > >
                                            > > This is not freedom of speech. This is freedom of the press. Freedom of
                                            > > the press belongs to those that own one. You should buy one: web sites
                                            > are
                                            > > pretty cheap.
                                            > >
                                            > > I choose to not publish your hate speech.
                                            > >
                                            > > I announced here that permies is strongly moderated and not for
                                            > everybody.
                                            > > You came, tested the boundaries, your nasty was deleted, you posted more
                                            > > nasty, it was deleted and you were banned. Simple. My site, my choice.
                                            > > You get your own site and you can manage it as you see fit. Be the change
                                            > > you wish to see in the world.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >



                                            --

                                            Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world domination:
                                            http://www.richsoil.com/email.jsp


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • iyo_farm
                                            ... I presume ick involved your authority being questioned? You mean, they can be removed ... their democratic communication with others can be restricted
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

                                              > Sumant,
                                              >
                                              > I understand your desire. This is why I prefer forums: if somebody
                                              > says icky, off-topic things, it can be removed. Or if people ask
                                              > questions about the way things are managed, that can be moved to
                                              > another forum, which you can skip over.

                                              I presume "ick" involved your authority being questioned?

                                              You mean, "they can be removed ... their democratic communication with others can be restricted and control" ... total control of the medium.

                                              You don't even discuss and explain Paul, you cannot even apologize when one of your unpaid workers screws up or makes a bad mistake.

                                              Actually, this is a observation of Westerners we have in Japan a lot. You cannot tolerate other people's opinions.

                                              Actually I have to wonder if what upset you was really someone using a nickname, or whether it was I pointed out a technical mistake you made in the manner in which you represented Natural Farming.

                                              Your ego seems to be strongly involved in what you do which is what the micromanagement of other people's work shows. That's not a Natural Farming approach.
                                            • Linda Shewan
                                              Iyo - we get your point - it s time to stop now. From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of iyo_farm Sent:
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 1, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Iyo - we get your point - it's time to stop now.





                                                From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                                [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of iyo_farm
                                                Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012 2:03 AM
                                                To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: new fukuoka forum and ungrateful control
                                                freakery at permies.com

                                                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                                                <mailto:fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com> , paul wheaton <paul@...> wrote:

                                                > Sumant,
                                                >
                                                > I understand your desire. This is why I prefer forums: if somebody
                                                > says icky, off-topic things, it can be removed. Or if people ask
                                                > questions about the way things are managed, that can be moved to
                                                > another forum, which you can skip over.

                                                I presume "ick" involved your authority being questioned?

                                                You mean, "they can be removed ... their democratic communication with
                                                others can be restricted and control" ... total control of the medium.

                                                You don't even discuss and explain Paul, you cannot even apologize when one
                                                of your unpaid workers screws up or makes a bad mistake.

                                                Actually, this is a observation of Westerners we have in Japan a lot. You
                                                cannot tolerate other people's opinions.

                                                Actually I have to wonder if what upset you was really someone using a
                                                nickname, or whether it was I pointed out a technical mistake you made in
                                                the manner in which you represented Natural Farming.

                                                Your ego seems to be strongly involved in what you do which is what the
                                                micromanagement of other people's work shows. That's not a Natural Farming
                                                approach.





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Jason Stewart
                                                You ve asked the wrong Q! (in other words, non-metaphorical, Globish language (without any idioms), not real English, words, as also used by native English
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 9, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  You've asked the wrong Q! (in other words, non-metaphorical, Globish language (without any idioms), not real English, words, as also used by native English speakers who have 'dis-stressed' themselves out of or let a sick society they're within 'dis-stress' them out of, the ability to comprehend non-literal language, metaphors, similes, and any other kinds of idioms).

                                                  On 02/10/2012, at 12:56 AM, Jason Wicker wrote:

                                                  > No, I am me and he is him..do you want to vote him out or not?
                                                  >
                                                  > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Jason Stewart <macropneuma@...>wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >> **
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Could be you in your shadow form, though, a walking dead than needs a
                                                  >> proper burial.
                                                  >> Just sayin'.
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >> On 02/10/2012, at 12:38 AM, Jason Wicker wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >>> I vote to ban IYO on this forum..all in favor please chim in.
                                                  >>> Jason from NJ
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  > Thanks and all the best,
                                                  > Jason
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.