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RE: pest management

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  • tomcat614
    New member here and new to natural farming. This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening. Overall, things went pretty well. I do not
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 19, 2012
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      New member here and new to natural farming.
      This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
      Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
      small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
      approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
      read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
      I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
      interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
      totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
      chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
      season and in greater numbers.
      I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
      year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
      crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
      many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.

      1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
      2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
      season in anticipation of the beetles return?
      3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
      management?
      Thank you,
      RusselZone 6a



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nandan Palaparambil
      Hi Russel, Welcome... Birds does not catch cucumber beetles? In  my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name) which drinks the milk from
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 19, 2012
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        Hi Russel,

        Welcome...

        Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?

        In  my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name) which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests. With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it works out, but this is there in the plan..


        Regards,
        Nandan




        ________________________________
        From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
        To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management


         
        New member here and new to natural farming.
        This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
        Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
        small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
        approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
        read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
        I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
        interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
        totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
        chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
        season and in greater numbers.
        I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
        year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
        crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
        many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.

        1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
        2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
        season in anticipation of the beetles return?
        3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
        management?
        Thank you,
        RusselZone 6a

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ruthie Aquino
        Welcome Russel, It is not exactly advice I am sharing because I am not an expert. It is just that...the basis of natural farming is balance in nature. There
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 19, 2012
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          Welcome Russel,

          It is not exactly advice I am sharing because I am not an expert.
          It is just that...the basis of natural farming is balance in nature.
          There are no pests in natural farming, only plain simple animals trying to
          survive.
          I have to remind myself of that all the time.
          If there is something in too great numbers--making it appear to me as a
          pest--I should be patient because Nature tends towards equilibrium and
          should sort out things better than I ever would.
          For me the hardest thing was to accept and practise the principles without
          being tempted by some quick remedy.
          This modern society of instant and speed everything had formatted my mind,
          making me an impatient person, for results.

          I humby think that even in the smallest of spaces nature can be invited
          back.
          I have seen trees growing in cracks in the stone walls of castle moats here
          in France.

          Happy farming.
          RUTHIE


          2012/9/20 Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>

          > **
          >
          >
          > Hi Russel,
          >
          > Welcome...
          >
          > Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
          >
          > In my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name)
          > which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky
          > stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the
          > rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests.
          > With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field
          > so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it
          > works out, but this is there in the plan..
          >
          > Regards,
          > Nandan
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
          > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
          > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > New member here and new to natural farming.
          > This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
          > Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
          > small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
          > approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
          > read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
          > I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
          > interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
          > totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
          > chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
          > season and in greater numbers.
          > I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
          > year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
          > crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
          > many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
          >
          > 1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
          > 2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
          > season in anticipation of the beetles return?
          > 3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
          > management?
          > Thank you,
          > RusselZone 6a
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sumant Joshi
          Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in check Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards, Sumant Joshi Tel - 09370010424,
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 20, 2012
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            Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in check



            Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


            Warm regards,

            Sumant Joshi
            Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



            >________________________________
            > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
            >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012 9:59 AM
            >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
            >
            >

            >Hi Russel,
            >
            >Welcome...
            >
            >Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
            >
            >In  my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name) which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests. With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it works out, but this is there in the plan..
            >
            >Regards,
            >Nandan
            >
            >________________________________
            >From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
            >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
            >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
            >
            >

            >New member here and new to natural farming.
            >This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
            >Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
            >small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
            >approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
            >read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
            >I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
            >interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
            >totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
            >chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
            >season and in greater numbers.
            >I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
            >year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
            >crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
            >many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
            >
            >1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
            >2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
            >season in anticipation of the beetles return?
            >3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
            >management?
            >Thank you,
            >RusselZone 6a
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Marcos G.
            Welcome! I too am new to natural farming and agriculture in general, even though I am a follower of the permaculture movement for years, only this year started
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 20, 2012
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              Welcome!

              I too am new to natural farming and agriculture in general, even though I am a follower of the
              permaculture movement for years, only this year started making garden in the backyard in just 180m2,
              less land than has Russel Lopez.

              For now, what may be considered pests in my yard are large black ants that eat the geranium,
              broccoli, strawberries and gardenia, maybe something else, but they especially like that. I let them
              eat the geranium, patiently waited, they ate half of the geranium and it sprout again, then there
              was not a problem. They then attacked the broccoli, some that had been planted together in a groove,
              were almost completely extinguished, however those in other parts of the garden remained intact.
              They then attacked the gardenia jasminoides, have eaten half and seem to want to eat it all, so I
              had no choice but to throw rice and distracted them, as they say rice rots in the ant nest and bust
              them. The strawberries: were eaten all the leaves, but sprouted; anyway to make sure minimum
              strawberry production I had to put in plastic pots (they do not climb plastic), until I can discover
              how to balance the "plague" of black ants.

              What could level them? Some animal? As all neighbors have yard, and I can not act in their yards,
              even when killed, the ants return again and again.

              Another "plague" in my garden are snails, as we do not agree with my wife to introduce geese, ducks
              or other animal which devours snails and slugs, what little I can do is put crushed eggshells around
              basils for them to go, or at least cheat with glasses of beer sunk into the ground.

              If I did not do any of this, the snails eat all basils.

              Regarding the bugs that eat your beans, I read that Fukuoka recommends not planting in straight rows,
              as says the beetles usually eat in a straight line, but do not know how true is this for your
              situation.

              As Ruth said, for natural farmers there should not be any "pests" at all, but I think we need to work
              and think a lot to achieve a reasonably successful cultivation without the bugs eating too many
              plants.

              Marcos

              Argentina (pampa húmeda, min -3º C, max 39º C)
            • Nandan Palaparambil
              I will need service from Owl also, since the field does not have standing water, rat attack also is there. And once the rice is ready for harvest, peacock does
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 20, 2012
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                I will need service from Owl also, since the field does not have standing water, rat attack also is there. And once the rice is ready for harvest, peacock does the harvesting and whatever remains I will get.

                It is not easy to chaseaway peacocks..Peacocks also does not enter wet fields and if the field is very thick with rice plants, they will pick up only from sides. In my case, they have all the freedom to move inside since it is not so thick and their feets does not get dirty, since I have nice green cover underneath !!!

                Hopefully in the next season, things will be better, I will have enough to share between all the shareholders...

                Regards,
                Nandan




                ________________________________
                From: Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
                To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:16 PM
                Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management


                 
                Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in check

                Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone

                Warm regards,

                Sumant Joshi
                Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161

                >________________________________
                > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                >Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012 9:59 AM
                >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                >
                >

                >Hi Russel,
                >
                >Welcome...
                >
                >Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
                >
                >In  my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name) which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests. With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it works out, but this is there in the plan..
                >
                >Regards,
                >Nandan
                >
                >________________________________
                >From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
                >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
                >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                >
                >

                >New member here and new to natural farming.
                >This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
                >Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
                >small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
                >approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
                >read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
                >I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
                >interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
                >totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
                >chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
                >season and in greater numbers.
                >I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
                >year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
                >crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
                >many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
                >
                >1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
                >2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
                >season in anticipation of the beetles return?
                >3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
                >management?
                >Thank you,
                >RusselZone 6a
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Alan Sloan
                We ve a fox around here, and a few cats, but we re overdeveloped for Owls, which like a quiet life. My pathetic attempt at getting wheat started last year was
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 20, 2012
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                  We've a fox around here, and a few cats, but we're overdeveloped for Owls,
                  which like a quiet life.
                  My pathetic attempt at getting wheat started last year was wiped out by
                  birds. I will try scattering branches next year to limit them physically.
                  Alan

                  On 20 September 2012 16:01, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > I will need service from Owl also, since the field does not have standing
                  > water, rat attack also is there. And once the rice is ready for harvest,
                  > peacock does the harvesting and whatever remains I will get.
                  >
                  > It is not easy to chaseaway peacocks..Peacocks also does not enter wet
                  > fields and if the field is very thick with rice plants, they will pick up
                  > only from sides. In my case, they have all the freedom to move inside since
                  > it is not so thick and their feets does not get dirty, since I have nice
                  > green cover underneath !!!
                  >
                  > Hopefully in the next season, things will be better, I will have enough to
                  > share between all the shareholders...
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Nandan
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
                  > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:16 PM
                  >
                  > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in check
                  >
                  > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
                  >
                  > Warm regards,
                  >
                  > Sumant Joshi
                  > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
                  >
                  > >________________________________
                  > > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                  > >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012 9:59 AM
                  > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Hi Russel,
                  > >
                  > >Welcome...
                  > >
                  > >Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
                  > >
                  > >In my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name)
                  > which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky
                  > stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the
                  > rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests.
                  > With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field
                  > so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it
                  > works out, but this is there in the plan..
                  > >
                  > >Regards,
                  > >Nandan
                  > >
                  > >________________________________
                  > >From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
                  > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                  > >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
                  > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >New member here and new to natural farming.
                  > >This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
                  > >Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
                  > >small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
                  > >approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
                  > >read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
                  > >I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
                  > >interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
                  > >totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
                  > >chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
                  > >season and in greater numbers.
                  > >I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
                  > >year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
                  > >crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
                  > >many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
                  > >
                  > >1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
                  > >2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
                  > >season in anticipation of the beetles return?
                  > >3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
                  > >management?
                  > >Thank you,
                  > >RusselZone 6a
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Harish Amur
                  Why grow beans when you know it would not yield? OR the pests have feasted on your beans, while you seem to be getting other produce well. Thus beans are your
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 20, 2012
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                    Why grow beans when you know it would not yield? OR the pests have feasted
                    on your beans, while you seem to be getting other produce well. Thus beans
                    are your pest management strategy.

                    I draw this from the practice in farms. The last line is usually a crop
                    that has bright yellow coloured flowers, such as mustard, marigold etc.
                    These plants attract a lot of pests and are a stronger variety. They are
                    planted with no expectation of yield (in most cases you do get some because
                    of the scale of a farm). I was growing radish at home (terrace garden) and
                    by chance I had planted a variety of lentil next to it. To my surprise (and
                    to everyone else who saw the radish), the leaves were intact. The radish at
                    my farm has leaves that are so torn that I am surprised as to how the
                    radish beneath is getting its food.

                    A few years ago, a kind of caterpillar was feasting on our chickpea. I got
                    a call from the farm and I did not really know what to do. I asked them to
                    erect a few 'T' shaped sticks on the farm. By the time I visited the farm,
                    I was surprised to see several birds perched on the electric wire. The
                    caterpillar problem was solved in no time. Our chickpea was 95% pest free
                    when we harvested it.

                    A similar situation with the soy bean. Pests were eating the leaves. When
                    asked, I told them to wait. It rained the next day. Pests were gone, like
                    magic. We lost leaves, but the yield was not compromised.

                    Of course, these crops were not grown in a NF way. They were grown
                    traditionally using bullocks. However we since we do not use any chemicals
                    on the farm, we could rely on natural ways of pest management.

                    There is another instance. A pest actually helps sugarcane grow better.
                    This is the most weird thing that I have heard and seen. This pest eats the
                    main shoot of the sugarcane plant when it is very young. The sugarcane
                    plant fights back and grows n-number of shoots to counter the pest. The
                    pest either undergoes metamorphosis or looses interest or is eaten by some
                    other pest that the other shoots are not affected. A friendly pest in
                    disguise!!

                    There are some non-chemical ways that people practice here. However, if you
                    do that you would depart from NF philosophy. If you wish to know, I can
                    share some of them.

                    Regards,
                    Harish

                    On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...
                    > wrote:

                    > **
                    >
                    >
                    > I will need service from Owl also, since the field does not have standing
                    > water, rat attack also is there. And once the rice is ready for harvest,
                    > peacock does the harvesting and whatever remains I will get.
                    >
                    > It is not easy to chaseaway peacocks..Peacocks also does not enter wet
                    > fields and if the field is very thick with rice plants, they will pick up
                    > only from sides. In my case, they have all the freedom to move inside since
                    > it is not so thick and their feets does not get dirty, since I have nice
                    > green cover underneath !!!
                    >
                    > Hopefully in the next season, things will be better, I will have enough to
                    > share between all the shareholders...
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Nandan
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
                    > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:16 PM
                    >
                    > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in check
                    >
                    > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
                    >
                    > Warm regards,
                    >
                    > Sumant Joshi
                    > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
                    >
                    > >________________________________
                    > > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                    > >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                    > >Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012 9:59 AM
                    > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >Hi Russel,
                    > >
                    > >Welcome...
                    > >
                    > >Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
                    > >
                    > >In my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name)
                    > which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky
                    > stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the
                    > rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests.
                    > With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field
                    > so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it
                    > works out, but this is there in the plan..
                    > >
                    > >Regards,
                    > >Nandan
                    > >
                    > >________________________________
                    > >From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
                    > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                    > >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
                    > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >New member here and new to natural farming.
                    > >This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
                    > >Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
                    > >small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
                    > >approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
                    > >read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
                    > >I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
                    > >interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
                    > >totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
                    > >chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
                    > >season and in greater numbers.
                    > >I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
                    > >year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
                    > >crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
                    > >many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
                    > >
                    > >1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
                    > >2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
                    > >season in anticipation of the beetles return?
                    > >3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
                    > >management?
                    > >Thank you,
                    > >RusselZone 6a
                    > >
                    > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Linda Shewan
                    Hi Marcos, Snails and slugs - homoeopathic Helix Tosta. I get mine from Homoeopathy Plus in Australia but I don t know where they can send to. Hopefully you
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 21, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Marcos,

                      Snails and slugs - homoeopathic Helix Tosta. I get mine from Homoeopathy
                      Plus in Australia but I don't know where they can send to. Hopefully you can
                      get them from Argentina.

                      It is not totally NF but I consider it completely harmless and it was
                      amazing in my garden last year. The slugs and snails don't die and aren't
                      hurt in any way, they just move on. I usually can't plant seedlings of
                      almost any vegetable without it being completely eaten by slugs and snails
                      but last year I sprayed homoeopathic Helix Tosta and almost all of my
                      seedlings survived...


                      Linda
                    • Sumant Joshi
                      Have you tried spraying red pepper powder? I have tried it on the mealy bug and it seemed to work. You can also try cow urine. Sent from my BSNL landline
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 21, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Have you tried spraying red pepper powder? I have tried it on the mealy bug and it seemed to work. You can also try cow urine.



                        Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


                        Warm regards,

                        Sumant Joshi
                        Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



                        >________________________________
                        > From: Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@...>
                        >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                        >Sent: Friday, 21 September 2012 2:35 PM
                        >Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                        >
                        >

                        >Hi Marcos,
                        >
                        >Snails and slugs - homoeopathic Helix Tosta. I get mine from Homoeopathy
                        >Plus in Australia but I don't know where they can send to. Hopefully you can
                        >get them from Argentina.
                        >
                        >It is not totally NF but I consider it completely harmless and it was
                        >amazing in my garden last year. The slugs and snails don't die and aren't
                        >hurt in any way, they just move on. I usually can't plant seedlings of
                        >almost any vegetable without it being completely eaten by slugs and snails
                        >but last year I sprayed homoeopathic Helix Tosta and almost all of my
                        >seedlings survived...
                        >
                        >Linda
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Nandan Palaparambil
                        Hi Harish, Interesting to read these experiences.. After reading this post, I am planning to grow marigold, growing glyercedia as permanent posts in the field
                        Message 11 of 13 , Sep 21, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Harish,

                          Interesting to read these experiences..

                          After reading this post, I am planning to grow marigold, growing glyercedia as permanent posts in the field (this gives mulching material also), crop rotation etc...Each one will add some percentage of pest control.

                          The same is true for weed control also...In NF no-tilling, mulching, cover crop, selecting crop variety which can compete with crops and suitable for the location,crop crop-rotation, timing of crops (before weeds emerge)...all adds some percentage..All these factors added should give sufficient control.

                          Please share non-chemical methods of pest management. In the initial stages of NF, this also may be required, so if we use with right mindset, it should not be a problem. Probably the non-chemical methods which will just repel the pests will be more suitable for the non-violent strategy of NF.


                          Regards,
                          Nandan




                          ________________________________
                          From: Harish Amur <harishamur@...>
                          To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:30 PM
                          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management


                           
                          Why grow beans when you know it would not yield? OR the pests have feasted
                          on your beans, while you seem to be getting other produce well. Thus beans
                          are your pest management strategy.

                          I draw this from the practice in farms. The last line is usually a crop
                          that has bright yellow coloured flowers, such as mustard, marigold etc.
                          These plants attract a lot of pests and are a stronger variety. They are
                          planted with no expectation of yield (in most cases you do get some because
                          of the scale of a farm). I was growing radish at home (terrace garden) and
                          by chance I had planted a variety of lentil next to it. To my surprise (and
                          to everyone else who saw the radish), the leaves were intact. The radish at
                          my farm has leaves that are so torn that I am surprised as to how the
                          radish beneath is getting its food.

                          A few years ago, a kind of caterpillar was feasting on our chickpea. I got
                          a call from the farm and I did not really know what to do. I asked them to
                          erect a few 'T' shaped sticks on the farm. By the time I visited the farm,
                          I was surprised to see several birds perched on the electric wire. The
                          caterpillar problem was solved in no time. Our chickpea was 95% pest free
                          when we harvested it.

                          A similar situation with the soy bean. Pests were eating the leaves. When
                          asked, I told them to wait. It rained the next day. Pests were gone, like
                          magic. We lost leaves, but the yield was not compromised.

                          Of course, these crops were not grown in a NF way. They were grown
                          traditionally using bullocks. However we since we do not use any chemicals
                          on the farm, we could rely on natural ways of pest management.

                          There is another instance. A pest actually helps sugarcane grow better.
                          This is the most weird thing that I have heard and seen. This pest eats the
                          main shoot of the sugarcane plant when it is very young. The sugarcane
                          plant fights back and grows n-number of shoots to counter the pest. The
                          pest either undergoes metamorphosis or looses interest or is eaten by some
                          other pest that the other shoots are not affected. A friendly pest in
                          disguise!!

                          There are some non-chemical ways that people practice here. However, if you
                          do that you would depart from NF philosophy. If you wish to know, I can
                          share some of them.

                          Regards,
                          Harish

                          On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...
                          > wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > I will need service from Owl also, since the field does not have standing
                          > water, rat attack also is there. And once the rice is ready for harvest,
                          > peacock does the harvesting and whatever remains I will get.
                          >
                          > It is not easy to chaseaway peacocks..Peacocks also does not enter wet
                          > fields and if the field is very thick with rice plants, they will pick up
                          > only from sides. In my case, they have all the freedom to move inside since
                          > it is not so thick and their feets does not get dirty, since I have nice
                          > green cover underneath !!!
                          >
                          > Hopefully in the next season, things will be better, I will have enough to
                          > share between all the shareholders...
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Nandan
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
                          > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:16 PM
                          >
                          > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in check
                          >
                          > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
                          >
                          > Warm regards,
                          >
                          > Sumant Joshi
                          > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
                          >
                          > >________________________________
                          > > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                          > >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012 9:59 AM
                          > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >Hi Russel,
                          > >
                          > >Welcome...
                          > >
                          > >Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
                          > >
                          > >In my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name)
                          > which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky
                          > stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in the
                          > rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these pests.
                          > With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field
                          > so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it
                          > works out, but this is there in the plan..
                          > >
                          > >Regards,
                          > >Nandan
                          > >
                          > >________________________________
                          > >From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
                          > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                          > >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
                          > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >New member here and new to natural farming.
                          > >This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
                          > >Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
                          > >small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
                          > >approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
                          > >read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
                          > >I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
                          > >interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
                          > >totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
                          > >chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
                          > >season and in greater numbers.
                          > >I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
                          > >year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
                          > >crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
                          > >many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
                          > >
                          > >1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
                          > >2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
                          > >season in anticipation of the beetles return?
                          > >3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
                          > >management?
                          > >Thank you,
                          > >RusselZone 6a
                          > >
                          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Harish Amur
                          Hi Nandan, This year, I observed black aphids in the gliricidia plants, in summer. However they vanished in the rainy season. Other than the black patches on
                          Message 12 of 13 , Sep 22, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Nandan,

                            This year, I observed black aphids in the gliricidia plants, in summer.
                            However they vanished in the rainy season. Other than the black patches on
                            these plants, I did not find any problem because of the aphids. Further,
                            gliricidia grows very fast and vigorously. It also spreads very easily. So
                            you may want to consider these before you plant them as permanent posts. I
                            am not trying to discourage, just sharing some thoughts. Personally, I like
                            gliricidia quite a bit. Gliricidia leaves are one of the best for mulching.
                            This plant is so strong that it can grow in any circumstance. Pruning does
                            not seem to have adverse affect on the plant, it grows back even more
                            vigorously.

                            As for natural pesticides, there is a lot of information on the internet.
                            However the ones that I have used (sparingly) are fuming and using neem
                            extract. Fumes: Light some charcoal, when it is red, throw some semi dry
                            leaves etc on it so that fumes are produced. If you could catch the pest
                            that you want to control and throw it into the fire (I know this is
                            violent, however it seems to work), then it is even more effective. I have
                            not tried it too much, as it is against NF and also that it kills or repels
                            good insects too.

                            The second option, that of spraying neem extract, is simpler, however it
                            requires access to a neem tree. Pluck a handful of neem leaves and put them
                            in a bucket of water. Soak them for a few days, say 2 or 3. Dilute the neem
                            extract and then spray it on the affected areas(please do not add detergent
                            to this, as it is popularly known, this is not oil, so there is no issue
                            with it sticking to leaves or stalks). However this too affects good
                            insects. It kills or repels spiders, ants etc. I also do not know as to
                            what it does to earthworms. I have not used it too much.

                            One of the other option, which I am contemplating on, is to grow diverse
                            set of plants, which can co-exist, in a dense manner. In my terrace garden,
                            two types of creepers, a tomato plant, a groundnut plant, a few leafy
                            vegetables were all growing together in a large pot (3' X 2'). Apart from
                            the ground nut plant, the rest of them had grown on their own. I observed
                            that this pot had the least amount of pest problem. Isn't this very natural
                            to a forest environment? It's only because of 'scientific' way of farming
                            that we are now growing plants (esp crops) in rows and we leave a lot of
                            space between two of them. I do not really know if my thinking is in the
                            right direction, but I do have a deep suspicion on this 'space' between
                            plants concept. I would love to hear what Fukuoka San had to say about
                            this. I know that he did not like 'row's, but what about 'dense' plantation?

                            Regards,
                            Harish



                            On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Nandan Palaparambil <
                            p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Harish,
                            >
                            > Interesting to read these experiences..
                            >
                            > After reading this post, I am planning to grow marigold, growing
                            > glyercedia as permanent posts in the field (this gives mulching material
                            > also), crop rotation etc...Each one will add some percentage of pest
                            > control.
                            >
                            > The same is true for weed control also...In NF no-tilling, mulching, cover
                            > crop, selecting crop variety which can compete with crops and suitable for
                            > the location,crop crop-rotation, timing of crops (before weeds
                            > emerge)...all adds some percentage..All these factors added should give
                            > sufficient control.
                            >
                            > Please share non-chemical methods of pest management. In the initial
                            > stages of NF, this also may be required, so if we use with right mindset,
                            > it should not be a problem. Probably the non-chemical methods which will
                            > just repel the pests will be more suitable for the non-violent strategy of
                            > NF.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            > Nandan
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Harish Amur <harishamur@...>
                            > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:30 PM
                            >
                            > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Why grow beans when you know it would not yield? OR the pests have feasted
                            > on your beans, while you seem to be getting other produce well. Thus beans
                            > are your pest management strategy.
                            >
                            > I draw this from the practice in farms. The last line is usually a crop
                            > that has bright yellow coloured flowers, such as mustard, marigold etc.
                            > These plants attract a lot of pests and are a stronger variety. They are
                            > planted with no expectation of yield (in most cases you do get some because
                            > of the scale of a farm). I was growing radish at home (terrace garden) and
                            > by chance I had planted a variety of lentil next to it. To my surprise (and
                            > to everyone else who saw the radish), the leaves were intact. The radish at
                            > my farm has leaves that are so torn that I am surprised as to how the
                            > radish beneath is getting its food.
                            >
                            > A few years ago, a kind of caterpillar was feasting on our chickpea. I got
                            > a call from the farm and I did not really know what to do. I asked them to
                            > erect a few 'T' shaped sticks on the farm. By the time I visited the farm,
                            > I was surprised to see several birds perched on the electric wire. The
                            > caterpillar problem was solved in no time. Our chickpea was 95% pest free
                            > when we harvested it.
                            >
                            > A similar situation with the soy bean. Pests were eating the leaves. When
                            > asked, I told them to wait. It rained the next day. Pests were gone, like
                            > magic. We lost leaves, but the yield was not compromised.
                            >
                            > Of course, these crops were not grown in a NF way. They were grown
                            > traditionally using bullocks. However we since we do not use any chemicals
                            > on the farm, we could rely on natural ways of pest management.
                            >
                            > There is another instance. A pest actually helps sugarcane grow better.
                            > This is the most weird thing that I have heard and seen. This pest eats the
                            > main shoot of the sugarcane plant when it is very young. The sugarcane
                            > plant fights back and grows n-number of shoots to counter the pest. The
                            > pest either undergoes metamorphosis or looses interest or is eaten by some
                            > other pest that the other shoots are not affected. A friendly pest in
                            > disguise!!
                            >
                            > There are some non-chemical ways that people practice here. However, if you
                            > do that you would depart from NF philosophy. If you wish to know, I can
                            > share some of them.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            > Harish
                            >
                            > On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Nandan Palaparambil <
                            > p_k_nandanan@...
                            > > wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I will need service from Owl also, since the field does not have standing
                            > > water, rat attack also is there. And once the rice is ready for harvest,
                            > > peacock does the harvesting and whatever remains I will get.
                            > >
                            > > It is not easy to chaseaway peacocks..Peacocks also does not enter wet
                            > > fields and if the field is very thick with rice plants, they will pick up
                            > > only from sides. In my case, they have all the freedom to move inside
                            > since
                            > > it is not so thick and their feets does not get dirty, since I have nice
                            > > green cover underneath !!!
                            > >
                            > > Hopefully in the next season, things will be better, I will have enough
                            > to
                            > > share between all the shareholders...
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > > Nandan
                            > >
                            > > ________________________________
                            > > From: Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...>
                            > > To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 4:16 PM
                            > >
                            > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yeah and some people erect high poles for Owl perches to keep rats in
                            > check
                            > >
                            > > Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone
                            > >
                            > > Warm regards,
                            > >
                            > > Sumant Joshi
                            > > Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161
                            > >
                            > > >________________________________
                            > > > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
                            > > >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                            > > >Sent: Thursday, 20 September 2012 9:59 AM
                            > > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >Hi Russel,
                            > > >
                            > > >Welcome...
                            > > >
                            > > >Birds does not catch cucumber beetles?
                            > > >
                            > > >In my paddy field, there is a pest (not sure about its english name)
                            > > which drinks the milk from rice. This pest has a foul smell. During milky
                            > > stages of rice, people arrange some sticks with a horizontal support in
                            > the
                            > > rice field so that these birds will come and sit there and eat these
                            > pests.
                            > > With this in mind, I am planning to put some glyrecedia in the rice field
                            > > so that there is a permanent staying place for the birds..not sure if it
                            > > works out, but this is there in the plan..
                            > > >
                            > > >Regards,
                            > > >Nandan
                            > > >
                            > > >________________________________
                            > > >From: tomcat614 <russel.lopez@...>
                            > > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 11:29 PM
                            > > >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] RE: pest management
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >New member here and new to natural farming.
                            > > >This year was my first serious attempt at home vegetable gardening.
                            > > >Overall, things went pretty well. I do not have a farm, but rather a
                            > > >small garden of about 500 sq. ft. I started out with an organic
                            > > >approach in Feb. and then discovered natural farming as I continued to
                            > > >read and search the internet. It seems like it is now the way for me.
                            > > >I am interested in applying natural farming techniques to my garden. Of
                            > > >interest are managing garden pests, particularly cucumber beetles. They
                            > > >totally destroyed anything that looked like a bean this year. I used no
                            > > >chemicals despite temptation. I expect them to return even earlier next
                            > > >season and in greater numbers.
                            > > >I have noticed a very large increase in animal life in my yard this
                            > > >year. More birds and bird species, more spiders in the garden,
                            > > >crickets, grasshoppers and my personal favorite, the dragonfly. I had so
                            > > >many frequent flyers that I started to name some of them.
                            > > >
                            > > >1. Do natural farming techniques scale down to such a small level?
                            > > >2. Should I plant the same number, greater or fewer bean plants next
                            > > >season in anticipation of the beetles return?
                            > > >3. What has been your experience with natural farming and pest
                            > > >management?
                            > > >Thank you,
                            > > >RusselZone 6a
                            > > >
                            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Russel Lopez
                            I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my initial question about NF pest management. I received several good responses which will be quite helpful next
                            Message 13 of 13 , Sep 26, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my initial question about NF pest management. I received several good responses which will be quite helpful next season.



                              Thank you to all.



                              Russel

                              USA





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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