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Rock Dust And Natural Farming

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  • Alex van Deelen
    What is the concensus on the use of rock dust and natural farming? As rock is the mother of the soil, using crushed local rocks seems to be as natural and
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
      What is the concensus on the use of rock dust and natural farming?

      As rock is the mother of the soil, using crushed local rocks seems to be as
      natural and sustainable as natural farming itself.

      It would save on a lot of fertilization, and combined with keeping
      crop residue on the field, it may be the secret to perpetual fertility.

      Also, if you use rocks dust of varying sizes (dust, sand, grit),
      they would break down over varying periods of time and
      provide fertility for years down the road.

      Add to that the fact that vegetables and herbs grown
      with rockdust are much higher in quality. And that rocks
      are a nearly inexhaustible source, and (as described above)
      would only need to be applied once, this may be the key
      to highly sustainable agriculture.

      Just some food for thought:

      Rock dust in Perthshire (Scotland)
      SEER Rock Dust Organic Remineralisation
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJ9vBdHZGM
    • Raju Titus
      Dear friend, Natural farming is not required any man made fertilizer. Fertilization in soil is a natural process if we do not distirb it. Thanks Raju ... --
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
        Dear friend,
        Natural farming is not required any man made fertilizer. Fertilization in
        soil is a natural process if we do not distirb it.
        Thanks
        Raju

        On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Alex van Deelen <avdeelen@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > What is the concensus on the use of rock dust and natural farming?
        >
        > As rock is the mother of the soil, using crushed local rocks seems to be as
        > natural and sustainable as natural farming itself.
        >
        > It would save on a lot of fertilization, and combined with keeping
        > crop residue on the field, it may be the secret to perpetual fertility.
        >
        > Also, if you use rocks dust of varying sizes (dust, sand, grit),
        > they would break down over varying periods of time and
        > provide fertility for years down the road.
        >
        > Add to that the fact that vegetables and herbs grown
        > with rockdust are much higher in quality. And that rocks
        > are a nearly inexhaustible source, and (as described above)
        > would only need to be applied once, this may be the key
        > to highly sustainable agriculture.
        >
        > Just some food for thought:
        >
        > Rock dust in Perthshire (Scotland)
        > SEER Rock Dust Organic Remineralisation
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJ9vBdHZGM
        >
        >
        >



        --
        *Raju Titus. Rishi kheti farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
        +919179738049.
        http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
        fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
        http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sumant Joshi
        Using rock dust is a good idea but I think strictly speaking isn t natural farming . However, on my farm I have lots of stones. These stone are basalt/
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
          Using rock dust is a good idea but I think strictly speaking isn't 'natural farming'. However, on my farm I have lots of stones. These stone are basalt/ granite but they all look yellow when dug out of the ground. I presume this is due to bacteria dissolving them to make soil. The practice amongst local farmers is that they farm the land for three years and then allow it be fallow for three for it to regain fertility and it seems to work.
           



          Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


          Warm regards,

          Sumant Joshi
          Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



          >________________________________
          > From: Alex van Deelen <avdeelen@...>
          >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          >Sent: Sunday, 9 September 2012 1:11 AM
          >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Rock Dust And Natural Farming
          >
          >

          >What is the concensus on the use of rock dust and natural farming?
          >
          >As rock is the mother of the soil, using crushed local rocks seems to be as
          >natural and sustainable as natural farming itself.
          >
          >It would save on a lot of fertilization, and combined with keeping
          >crop residue on the field, it may be the secret to perpetual fertility.
          >
          >Also, if you use rocks dust of varying sizes (dust, sand, grit),
          >they would break down over varying periods of time and
          >provide fertility for years down the road.
          >
          >Add to that the fact that vegetables and herbs grown
          >with rockdust are much higher in quality. And that rocks
          >are a nearly inexhaustible source, and (as described above)
          >would only need to be applied once, this may be the key
          >to highly sustainable agriculture.
          >
          >Just some food for thought:
          >
          >Rock dust in Perthshire (Scotland)
          >SEER Rock Dust Organic Remineralisation
          >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJ9vBdHZGM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Boovarahan Srinivasan
          This nothing but stone meal of Dr Julius Hensel .
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
            This nothing but "stone meal ' of Dr Julius Hensel .
            http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soilandhealth.org%2F01aglibrary%2F010173.hensel.pdf&ei=LR9MUKuoF8OOrgeW5YDoDQ&usg=AFQjCNEHpTACHBDvQZIdd1-sqhhZc7YX9w&sig2=nOt3HIpTaYhpqs0TQuebQw


            On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 1:11 AM, Alex van Deelen <avdeelen@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > What is the concensus on the use of rock dust and natural farming?
            >
            > As rock is the mother of the soil, using crushed local rocks seems to be as
            > natural and sustainable as natural farming itself.
            >
            > It would save on a lot of fertilization, and combined with keeping
            > crop residue on the field, it may be the secret to perpetual fertility.
            >
            > Also, if you use rocks dust of varying sizes (dust, sand, grit),
            > they would break down over varying periods of time and
            > provide fertility for years down the road.
            >
            > Add to that the fact that vegetables and herbs grown
            > with rockdust are much higher in quality. And that rocks
            > are a nearly inexhaustible source, and (as described above)
            > would only need to be applied once, this may be the key
            > to highly sustainable agriculture.
            >
            > Just some food for thought:
            >
            > Rock dust in Perthshire (Scotland)
            > SEER Rock Dust Organic Remineralisation
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJ9vBdHZGM
            >
            >
            >



            --
            Boovarahan S
            Chennai.
            09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • iyo.farm@ymail.com
            ... In Japan, it also used to be tradition that villagers would collective distribute and re-distribute the land so that everyone had their share of good and
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 9, 2012
              --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Sumant Joshi <sumant_jo@...> wrote:

              > Using rock dust is a good idea but I think strictly speaking isn't 'natural farming'.

              In Japan, it also used to be tradition that villagers would collective distribute and re-distribute the land so that everyone had their share of good and bad land on an equal basis and that this would change over the years.

              Unfortunately, since the forced re-distribution of the land by the American occupiers post WWII, which was designed in their interests by disempowering the existing power structures land owners such the Fukuoka family, and not the interests of the Japanese people, all the tenant farmers and workers become stuck with whatever land they got ... good or bad.

              One could say such re-distributions were "natural" and part of the greater pattern of sustainability and nourishment and fixed land is unnatural. What to do with such an unnatural situation? Again, in Japan, we have unreasonable or unnatural market forces that demand, for example, very high quality "perfect" vegetables. For example, root crops grown in a stoney field where they were likely to come out bent and twist just would not be accepted by the resellers. The farmer with land like that would go out of business.

              It is crazy but true ... I've spent days and days looking for "ugly" vegetable, i.e. natural ones which taste perfectly good and are perfectly nutritious, but cannot find them! The market demands unnaturally perfect ones, cleaned and gift wrapped.


              As to rock dust, a solution to hastening the process of nature, I've seen a fantastic demonstration of a vortex grinder which can powder the hardest of rocks in seconds using only vortexes of air (no contact, no grinding) and read other studies of how plants essential survive on available minerals more than even water which supports what is written by the other poster above.

              I am not sure that we should fundamentalistic in our approach to natural farming. Both Fukuoka and Kawaguchi and others have pointed out the necessity of adopting the theory to local conditions. Iyo, for example, enjoys a much more gentle microclimate than other very nearby areas, Fukuoka's land was on an alluvial plain, and the mountains and hills of Shikoku are, as I always say, "half baked" ... made from very soft composite almost like shale rather than rock.

              I am not sure it is natural or fair to inflict the limitations Fukuoka was able to work within on other less blessed lands. Neither does everyone have the time to build up a rich and deep soil. It strikes me rock dust is an excellent way to do so quickly. The aesthetic of natural farming is wonderful ... if you have the time, fortunate of land, and can afford to do so.

              But what to do when you don't?
            • iyo.farm@ymail.com
              ... But to farm, you need *some* soil to start with ... and what is soil but a mix of organic, microbes, and rock dust? How many years of throwing clay ball is
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 9, 2012
                --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

                > Natural farming is not required any man made fertilizer. Fertilization in
                > soil is a natural process if we do not distirb it.

                But to farm, you need *some* soil to start with ... and what is soil but a mix of organic, microbes, and rock dust?

                How many years of throwing clay ball is required to build a soil 5 to 8 feet deep?

                And what do we do with soil that is so badly damaged or deficient that it will take many, many years to rebuild if *at present* we have many people starving.

                I can't think of rock dust as "man made fertilizer". It is just speeding up a natural process for application in critical situations, like medicine for a chronic patient.

                I am not sure if Fukuoka's had any awareness of rock dust technology and I think we should avoid too fundamentalist interpretation of the spirit of natural farming. Fundamentalist natural farming is a great thing can only happen within a relatively narrow band of existence. What happens when one exists outside of that band?

                For example, in some places in the world, there is so little soil that individuals have had to travel to collect it and recreate in where they live, many of the grain terraces in the world have also been artificially created in the same way etc.

                What are you going to say to those people ... sorry, you cannot farm, find another job or die? We should encourage people to do and take as much as they can and once land is established or restored, then apply the luxury of "natural farming".
              • Alex van Deelen
                Dear Sumant Joshi, ... Basalt and granite are highly recommended and have been used for centuries. The way I see it, in the context of Natural Farming, is that
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 9, 2012
                  Dear Sumant Joshi,

                  > Using rock dust is a good idea but I think strictly
                  > speaking isn't 'natural farming'. However, on my
                  > farm I have lots of stones. These stone are basalt/
                  > granite but they all look yellow when dug out of the
                  > ground. I presume this is due to bacteria dissolving
                  > them to make soil. The practice amongst local
                  > farmers is that they farm the land for three years
                  > and then allow it be fallow for three for it to regain
                  > fertility and it seems to work.

                  Basalt and granite are highly recommended and have
                  been used for centuries.

                  The way I see it, in the context of Natural Farming,
                  is that by grinding up such local rock into dust, one
                  would only be speeding up an already existing
                  geological process.

                  Even Fukuoka built dams and manipulated his fields.

                  Just a thought.

                  Cheers,

                  Alex
                • Alex van Deelen
                  Hi, I Completely agree. There have to be methods to transition from infertile soils to a place where natural farming can take place. That s all I m talking
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 9, 2012
                    Hi,

                    I Completely agree.

                    There have to be methods to transition from infertile soils to a place where
                    natural farming can take place.

                    That's all I'm talking about, not replacing Natural Farming methods
                    themself.

                    Alex


                    Sun Sep 9, 2012 11:43 am (PDT) . Posted by: "iyo.farm@..."
                    iyo.farm@...

                    --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

                    > Natural farming is not required any man made fertilizer. Fertilization in
                    > soil is a natural process if we do not distirb it.

                    But to farm, you need *some* soil to start with ... and what is soil but a
                    mix of organic, microbes, and rock dust?

                    How many years of throwing clay ball is required to build a soil 5 to 8 feet
                    deep?

                    And what do we do with soil that is so badly damaged or deficient that it
                    will take many, many years to rebuild if *at present* we have many people
                    starving.

                    I can't think of rock dust as "man made fertilizer". It is just speeding up
                    a natural process for application in critical situations, like medicine for
                    a chronic patient.

                    I am not sure if Fukuoka's had any awareness of rock dust technology and I
                    think we should avoid too fundamentalist interpretation of the spirit of
                    natural farming. Fundamentalist natural farming is a great thing can only
                    happen within a relatively narrow band of existence. What happens when one
                    exists outside of that band?

                    For example, in some places in the world, there is so little soil that
                    individuals have had to travel to collect it and recreate in where they
                    live, many of the grain terraces in the world have also been artificially
                    created in the same way etc.

                    What are you going to say to those people ... sorry, you cannot farm, find
                    another job or die? We should encourage people to do and take as much as
                    they can and once land is established or restored, then apply the luxury of
                    "natural farming".
                  • Linda Shewan
                    Fukuoka buried trees to incorporate the organic matter and nutrients into his soil. If you are using local materials, preferably from your own land, then I do
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 9, 2012
                      Fukuoka buried trees to incorporate the organic matter and nutrients into his soil. If you are using local materials, preferably from your own land, then I do not think grinding rocks into dust could be considered outside the realm of natural farming. But if you are blowing up mountains or digging up hills to get the rock then I would have to say in my terms it is NOT natural farming.

                      Cheers, Linda



                      ________________________________
                      From: Alex van Deelen <avdeelen@...>
                      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, 10 September 2012 4:51 AM
                      Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Rock Dust And Natural Farming


                       
                      Dear Sumant Joshi,

                      > Using rock dust is a good idea but I think strictly
                      > speaking isn't 'natural farming'. However, on my
                      > farm I have lots of stones. These stone are basalt/
                      > granite but they all look yellow when dug out of the
                      > ground. I presume this is due to bacteria dissolving
                      > them to make soil. The practice amongst local
                      > farmers is that they farm the land for three years
                      > and then allow it be fallow for three for it to regain
                      > fertility and it seems to work.

                      Basalt and granite are highly recommended and have
                      been used for centuries.

                      The way I see it, in the context of Natural Farming,
                      is that by grinding up such local rock into dust, one
                      would only be speeding up an already existing
                      geological process.

                      Even Fukuoka built dams and manipulated his fields.

                      Just a thought.

                      Cheers,

                      Alex




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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