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RE: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side

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  • Vidhya
    Make no mistakes. No-till is a major part of the international efforts for conservation agriculture promoted by Monsanto and their ilk. In Natural Farming,
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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      Make no mistakes. No-till is a major part of the international efforts for
      'conservation agriculture' promoted by Monsanto and their ilk.



      In Natural Farming, it is only one way of respecting soil and nature and
      increasing our understanding of her immense gifts of life and wellbeing.

      "Chemical-based no-till farming rose to prominence in the '70s thanks to the
      efficacy and low cost of glyphosate-based herbicides, which offered
      broad-spectrum weed control. Initially a burndown treatment, they became
      over-the-top weed controls as varieties were modified genetically to
      tolerate the lethal chemistry. This started first in soybeans, then cotton
      and corn.

      This seemed to be the perfect system by the late '90s, allowing farmers to
      plant many more acres than they could ever do if they depended on mechanical
      cultivation alone.

      The mirage of continuous weedless perfection is fading, however. As
      predicted from the start by weed ecologists, repeated use of glyphosate on
      the same weed species in the same crops year after year had an unwanted
      result. More weed varieties are surviving the chemical that used to kill
      every plant that had not been genetically designed to withstand its
      biological monkey-wrenching." You can read the whole report in:
      http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/20090625/nf1

      Vidhya





      _____

      From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
      Sent: 18 August 2012 15:54
      To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side





      "No Till organic farming" is done by machine but is close to natural way of
      farming due to no chemicals.
      Thanks
      Raju

      On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 1:26 PM, vidhyajdas <awsdc@...
      <mailto:awsdc%40sify.com> > wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > No till is very different from natural farming. it allows for all chemical
      > additions, and GM seeds, as long as you do not till, and maintain a soil
      > cover. It is one of the components of "conservation agriculture", promoted
      > by many Agricultural departments in US universities. There have been many
      > report of no-till farming giving rise to monster weeds due to the over use
      > of glyphosate, and other weedicides. Glyphosate is the most commonly used
      > one, and is considered `harmless'! i would say no-till has many very dark
      > sides
      >
      > Vidhya
      >
      >
      >

      --
      *Raju Titus. Rishi kheti farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
      +919179738049.
      http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
      fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
      http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason Stewart
      Yes, no mistakes, just missed the good no till diversity, of the whole story. Thank you. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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        Yes, no mistakes, just missed the good no till diversity, of the whole story.
        Thank you.

        On 18/08/2012, at 9:26 PM, Vidhya wrote:

        > Make no mistakes. No-till is a major part of the international efforts for
        > 'conservation agriculture' promoted by Monsanto and their ilk.
        >
        > In Natural Farming, it is only one way of respecting soil and nature and
        > increasing our understanding of her immense gifts of life and wellbeing.
        >
        > "Chemical-based no-till farming rose to prominence in the '70s thanks to the
        > efficacy and low cost of glyphosate-based herbicides, which offered
        > broad-spectrum weed control. Initially a burndown treatment, they became
        > over-the-top weed controls as varieties were modified genetically to
        > tolerate the lethal chemistry. This started first in soybeans, then cotton
        > and corn.
        >
        > This seemed to be the perfect system by the late '90s, allowing farmers to
        > plant many more acres than they could ever do if they depended on mechanical
        > cultivation alone.
        >
        > The mirage of continuous weedless perfection is fading, however. As
        > predicted from the start by weed ecologists, repeated use of glyphosate on
        > the same weed species in the same crops year after year had an unwanted
        > result. More weed varieties are surviving the chemical that used to kill
        > every plant that had not been genetically designed to withstand its
        > biological monkey-wrenching." You can read the whole report in:
        > http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/20090625/nf1
        >
        > Vidhya
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
        > Sent: 18 August 2012 15:54
        > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side
        >
        > "No Till organic farming" is done by machine but is close to natural way of
        > farming due to no chemicals.
        > Thanks
        > Raju
        >
        > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 1:26 PM, vidhyajdas <awsdc@...
        > <mailto:awsdc%40sify.com> > wrote:
        >
        > > **
        > >
        > >
        > > No till is very different from natural farming. it allows for all chemical
        > > additions, and GM seeds, as long as you do not till, and maintain a soil
        > > cover. It is one of the components of "conservation agriculture", promoted
        > > by many Agricultural departments in US universities. There have been many
        > > report of no-till farming giving rise to monster weeds due to the over use
        > > of glyphosate, and other weedicides. Glyphosate is the most commonly used
        > > one, and is considered `harmless'! i would say no-till has many very dark
        > > sides
        > >
        > > Vidhya
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > *Raju Titus. Rishi kheti farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
        > +919179738049.
        > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
        > fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
        > http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sumant Joshi
        I hope we are all commenting on the site. People here in the know should do that to counter this propaganda. Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone Warm regards,
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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          I hope we are all commenting on the site. People here in the know should do that to counter this propaganda.



          Sent from my BSNL landline B-fone


          Warm regards,

          Sumant Joshi
          Tel - 09370010424, 0253-2361161



          >________________________________
          > From: vidhyajdas <awsdc@...>
          >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
          >Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2012 1:26 PM
          >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side
          >
          >

          >No till is very different from natural farming. it allows for all chemical additions, and GM seeds, as long as you do not till, and maintain a soil cover. It is one of the components of "conservation agriculture", promoted by many Agricultural departments in US universities. There have been many report of no-till farming giving rise to monster weeds due to the over use of glyphosate, and other weedicides. Glyphosate is the most commonly used one, and is considered `harmless'! i would say no-till has many very dark sides
          >
          >Vidhya
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Vidhya
          Here too, as we seek to become better natural farmers, we tend to casually refer to the process as zero till or no till agriculture, but one should really
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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            Here too, as we seek to become better natural farmers, we tend to casually
            refer to the process as zero till or no till agriculture, but one should
            really stick to the term 'natural farming' for better understanding!

            Please don't thank me, we need to be aware of the dark forces trying to
            control nature that s all! :)

            Vidhya

            -----Original Message-----
            From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Stewart
            Sent: 18 August 2012 17:47
            To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side

            Yes, no mistakes, just missed the good no till diversity, of the whole
            story.
            Thank you.

            On 18/08/2012, at 9:26 PM, Vidhya wrote:

            > Make no mistakes. No-till is a major part of the international efforts for
            > 'conservation agriculture' promoted by Monsanto and their ilk.
            >
            > In Natural Farming, it is only one way of respecting soil and nature and
            > increasing our understanding of her immense gifts of life and wellbeing.
            >
            > "Chemical-based no-till farming rose to prominence in the '70s thanks to
            the
            > efficacy and low cost of glyphosate-based herbicides, which offered
            > broad-spectrum weed control. Initially a burndown treatment, they became
            > over-the-top weed controls as varieties were modified genetically to
            > tolerate the lethal chemistry. This started first in soybeans, then cotton
            > and corn.
            >
            > This seemed to be the perfect system by the late '90s, allowing farmers to
            > plant many more acres than they could ever do if they depended on
            mechanical
            > cultivation alone.
            >
            > The mirage of continuous weedless perfection is fading, however. As
            > predicted from the start by weed ecologists, repeated use of glyphosate on
            > the same weed species in the same crops year after year had an unwanted
            > result. More weed varieties are surviving the chemical that used to kill
            > every plant that had not been genetically designed to withstand its
            > biological monkey-wrenching." You can read the whole report in:
            > http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/20090625/nf1
            >
            > Vidhya
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
            > Sent: 18 August 2012 15:54
            > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side
            >
            > "No Till organic farming" is done by machine but is close to natural way
            of
            > farming due to no chemicals.
            > Thanks
            > Raju
            >
            > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 1:26 PM, vidhyajdas <awsdc@...
            > <mailto:awsdc%40sify.com> > wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > No till is very different from natural farming. it allows for all
            chemical
            > > additions, and GM seeds, as long as you do not till, and maintain a soil
            > > cover. It is one of the components of "conservation agriculture",
            promoted
            > > by many Agricultural departments in US universities. There have been
            many
            > > report of no-till farming giving rise to monster weeds due to the over
            use
            > > of glyphosate, and other weedicides. Glyphosate is the most commonly
            used
            > > one, and is considered `harmless'! i would say no-till has many very
            dark
            > > sides
            > >
            > > Vidhya
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > *Raju Titus. Rishi kheti farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
            > +919179738049.
            > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
            > fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
            > http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Jason Stewart
            ... and information, and us humans as playing our part of the rest of nature, etc. Yes we all must stay awake and mindful, of the priority most serious
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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              On 19/08/2012, at 12:09 AM, Vidhya wrote:

              > trying to
              > control nature

              and information,
              and us humans as playing our part of the rest of nature, etc.
              Yes we all must stay awake and mindful, of the priority most serious problems, and of all the rest. This is what our circle here in Oz of nature people have been active in since the 1980s
              And i will continue to exercise my own independent, sovereign person's choice of saying thanks and respecting myself, respecting difference, respecting uncertainty, respecting unknowns, respecting your choice to say to me not to thank yous, and respectfully loving diversity of natures...

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Raju Titus
              Natural farming is o.k. but in many places i am using term no till natural farming because in India Subhash palekarji propagating tilling in his Natural
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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                Natural farming is o.k. but in many places i am using term no till natural
                farming because in India Subhash palekarji propagating tilling in his
                Natural farming method.
                Thanks
                Raju

                On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Vidhya <awsdc@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > Here too, as we seek to become better natural farmers, we tend to casually
                > refer to the process as zero till or no till agriculture, but one should
                > really stick to the term 'natural farming' for better understanding!
                >
                > Please don't thank me, we need to be aware of the dark forces trying to
                > control nature that s all! :)
                >
                > Vidhya
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Stewart
                > Sent: 18 August 2012 17:47
                > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side
                >
                > Yes, no mistakes, just missed the good no till diversity, of the whole
                > story.
                > Thank you.
                >
                > On 18/08/2012, at 9:26 PM, Vidhya wrote:
                >
                > > Make no mistakes. No-till is a major part of the international efforts
                > for
                > > 'conservation agriculture' promoted by Monsanto and their ilk.
                > >
                > > In Natural Farming, it is only one way of respecting soil and nature and
                > > increasing our understanding of her immense gifts of life and wellbeing.
                > >
                > > "Chemical-based no-till farming rose to prominence in the '70s thanks to
                > the
                > > efficacy and low cost of glyphosate-based herbicides, which offered
                > > broad-spectrum weed control. Initially a burndown treatment, they became
                > > over-the-top weed controls as varieties were modified genetically to
                > > tolerate the lethal chemistry. This started first in soybeans, then
                > cotton
                > > and corn.
                > >
                > > This seemed to be the perfect system by the late '90s, allowing farmers
                > to
                > > plant many more acres than they could ever do if they depended on
                > mechanical
                > > cultivation alone.
                > >
                > > The mirage of continuous weedless perfection is fading, however. As
                > > predicted from the start by weed ecologists, repeated use of glyphosate
                > on
                > > the same weed species in the same crops year after year had an unwanted
                > > result. More weed varieties are surviving the chemical that used to kill
                > > every plant that had not been genetically designed to withstand its
                > > biological monkey-wrenching." You can read the whole report in:
                > > http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/20090625/nf1
                > >
                > > Vidhya
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > > [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raju Titus
                > > Sent: 18 August 2012 15:54
                > > To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] no-till has a dark side
                > >
                > > "No Till organic farming" is done by machine but is close to natural way
                > of
                > > farming due to no chemicals.
                > > Thanks
                > > Raju
                > >
                > > On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 1:26 PM, vidhyajdas <awsdc@...
                > > <mailto:awsdc%40sify.com> > wrote:
                > >
                > > > **
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > No till is very different from natural farming. it allows for all
                > chemical
                > > > additions, and GM seeds, as long as you do not till, and maintain a
                > soil
                > > > cover. It is one of the components of "conservation agriculture",
                > promoted
                > > > by many Agricultural departments in US universities. There have been
                > many
                > > > report of no-till farming giving rise to monster weeds due to the over
                > use
                > > > of glyphosate, and other weedicides. Glyphosate is the most commonly
                > used
                > > > one, and is considered `harmless'! i would say no-till has many very
                > dark
                > > > sides
                > > >
                > > > Vidhya
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > *Raju Titus. Rishi kheti farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
                > > +919179738049.
                > > http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
                > > fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
                > > http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >



                --
                *Raju Titus. Rishi kheti farm.Hoshangabad. M.P. 461001.*
                +919179738049.
                http://picasaweb.google.com/rajuktitus
                fukuoka_farming yahoogroup
                http://rishikheti.blogspot.com/


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jason Stewart
                Links eg.: * → http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/the-future-of-conservation-agriculture/3588436 * →
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 18, 2012
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                  Links eg.:
                  * → http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/the-future-of-conservation-agriculture/3588436
                  * → http://www.abc.net.au/rural/telegraph/content/2011/s3325847.htm
                  * → http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/the-great-green-wall-and-the-sahara-project/3871944

                  And thanks also to Mr. Raju, again.


                  On 18/08/2012, at 7:34 PM, Jason Stewart wrote:

                  > Again degenerating into semantics --the meanings of words.
                  >
                  > Any mono-thinking cannot handle what clarification i'm giving next,
                  > Actually, conservation agriculture is a category in a hierarchical thinking about agriculture, in the hierarchy agriculture is above, superordianate, in the hierarchy, and conservation agriculture is of course a hierarchical category included as part of that and including in it many ways of farming, eg.:
                  > * conventional (industrial) no-till agriculture -- using every other thinking way, means, method and technology of conventional, industrial agriculture, except minus tilling (or also much less), eg. monoculture, mechanisation, industrial laboratory chemical fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides.
                  > * organic no-till agriculture -- also commercial, science-thinking, and still industrial agriculture, as above, where all inputs are organic in substitution for any non-organic inputs -- incomparable to Fukuoka nature farming, natural farming or any other likewise.
                  > * farmer managed natural regeneration (FMNR) -- included in conservation agriculture in recent conservation agriculture international conferences.
                  > * 米麦連続不耕起直播 rice-barley continuous succession no till direct seeding method, for one example of late Fukuoka Masanobu's methods amongst his many ways -- he wrote this word 不耕起 no till in Japanese at least as early as 1950 if not earlier, and his 4 or more agriculture scientific papers published in journals in 1962 onwards.
                  > * absolutely no plowing tillage, nothing against nature of: fertilising, weeding (mechanically etc.), ag. chemicals (pesticides, herbicides, fungicides etc.), pruning, etc. -- Masanobu Fukuoka's leadership since 1937, and moreso 1947, in more general terms than the above rice--barley succession… .
                  > * no till, direct seeding (seedballs or naked) re-greening of deserts, in earnest from the mid 1980s, in not mentioning his own family farm's bare, desertified (desert like), red dirt hillsides from the 1930s.
                  > * nature in forests and natural lands is no plowing till, naturally.
                  > etc.
                  >
                  > No-till is just a phrase meaning devoid of tilling, in whatever context of agriculture or land.
                  > In agriculture this phrase is just a classification phrase for any methods which don't have tilling. Industrial commercial agriculture does not own this phrase anymore than anyone else does, including Fukuoka. It is simple English phrase which cannot be owned, trademarked, patented nor copyrighted by any special interests group.
                  >
                  > Anyone can use the English phrase no till. No one can claim it as their own, nor dictate the phrase's use.
                  >
                  > Sincere best wishes to you.
                  >
                  > On 18/08/2012, at 5:56 PM, vidhyajdas wrote:
                  >
                  > > No till is very different from natural farming. it allows for all chemical additions, and GM seeds, as long as you do not till, and maintain a soil cover. It is one of the components of "conservation agriculture", promoted by many Agricultural departments in US universities. There have been many report of no-till farming giving rise to monster weeds due to the over use of glyphosate, and other weedicides. Glyphosate is the most commonly used one, and is considered `harmless'! i would say no-till has many very dark sides
                  > >
                  > > Vidhya
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jason Stewart
                  Fukuoka Masanobu [1975 Dec orig. Japanese] (1985 Oct, 1987 Feb rev. ed.: English translation) The Natural Way Of Farming – The Theory and Practice of Green
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 19, 2012
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                    Fukuoka Masanobu [1975 Dec orig. Japanese]
                    (1985 Oct, 1987 Feb rev. ed.: English translation)
                    The Natural Way Of Farming – The Theory and Practice of Green Philosophy
                    translator Frederic P. Metreaud.
                    Japan Publications.
                    ISBN 0-87040-613-2

                    Quotation:

                    "
                    Early Attempts at Direct-Seeding, No-Tillage Rice/Barley Succession [page 171]

                    Direct Seeding of Rice between Barley [page 171]

                    ...

                    Direct-Seeding Rice / Barley Succession [page 172]

                    ...

                    Direct-Seeding, No-Tillage Rice/Barley Succession: [page 173]
                    ...

                    In 1962, I reported these experiences of mine in an article entitled "The Truth about Direct-Seeding Rice and Barley Cultivation," published in a leading farming and gardening journal in Japan. This was regarded as a highly singular contribution, but apparently acted as a strong stimulus on those interested in the direct seeding of rice. One high-ranking official in the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry at the time was delighted, calling it "research in a class by itself ... a guiding light for Japanese rice cultivation ten years hence."

                    Natural Rice and Barley/Wheat Cropping [page 174]
                    ...
                    "

                    i have the actual reference citations, which are also found, with quotations of the papers' body texts, in his Japanese 自然農法 [Nature Farming] book (2004 3rd. edition and earlier editions). Again email me if you want this.


                    On 18/08/2012, at 7:34 PM, Jason Stewart wrote:

                    > * 米麦連続不耕起直播 rice-barley continuous succession no till direct seeding method, for one example of late Fukuoka Masanobu's methods amongst his many ways -- he wrote this word 不耕起 no till in Japanese at least as early as 1950 if not earlier, and his 4 or more agriculture scientific papers published in journals in 1962 onwards.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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