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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Proposed changes to website

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  • Justin .
    ... How does Agroforestry fit in with this. Does Forest Gardening involve any tilling? If not, it sounds like there would be no problem giving links for that.
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 7, 2002
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      >From: "emilia" <emhaz@...>
      >the special particularity of natural ag. is the maintaining the dynamic of
      >a wild soil in spite of practicing an agriculture system...agriculture is a
      >manipulation, meaning an action is done by human hands: which implies we
      >are imposing something to whatever could have been there "naturally"...but
      >out of all the "manipulations" that humans can do, if the one done is
      >stablishing an agriculture with a dynamic that corresponds to what the soil
      >would have going there if let to itself (instead of agriculturally
      >occupied): is a less harmful thing that whatever other agriculture
      >disturbing the soil would be happening there...
      >so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be
      >consistent with this particularity of no-till...


      How does Agroforestry fit in with this. Does Forest Gardening involve any
      tilling? If not, it sounds like there would be no problem giving links for
      that.
      Regarding Permaculture, I think the suggestion of a link to the British site
      is a good idea. There are lots of people involved with that association who
      are interested in and perhaps use Fukuoka's techniques. I am sure also that
      if you asked them, they would add our site to their links page. That would
      be very good.

      An example of no-till permaculture could be Ben Law. He has a book, "The
      Woodland Way: A Permaculture Approach to Sustainable Woodland Management"
      which I will be happy to review once I've read it. He is the coppicer. I
      don't think he ever tills. As I have said, his woods have been continually
      coppiced for 400 years. This then, also seems consistent.

      Emilia, do you have a web-site?
      Best wishes,
      Justin.


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    • Beatrice Gilboa
      ... consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever other systems that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances started
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 8, 2002
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        emilia wrote:

        >> so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be
        consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever
        other "systems" that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances
        started by touching the soil...it seems to me that we are missing the point,
        the purpose of the site: the vegetable ( including of annuals) production
        with soil's self-fertility should be emphasized as what it is: a unique
        proposition!
        if we drown this info on all the others: ecological,
        biodynamic,biointensif, etc (but with tilling ways) we wont communicate the
        important fukuoka-san message...

        So is my opinion too, more clearly said than I did before.

        Beatrice
        Israƫl



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "emilia" <emhaz@...>
        To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:12 PM
        Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Proposed changes to website


        > the special particularity of natural ag. is the maintaining the dynamic of
        a wild soil in spite of practicing an agriculture system...agriculture is a
        manipulation, meaning an action is done by human hands: which implies we are
        imposing something to whatever could have been there "naturally"...but out
        of all the "manipulations" that humans can do, if the one done is
        stablishing an agriculture with a dynamic that corresponds to what the soil
        would have going there if let to itself (instead of agriculturally
        occupied): is a less harmful thing that whatever other agriculture
        disturbing the soil would be happening there...
        > so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be
        consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever
        other "systems" that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances
        started by touching the soil...it seems to me that we are missing the point,
        the purpose of the site: the vegetable ( including of annuals) production
        with soil's self-fertility should be emphasized as what it is: a unique
        proposition!
        > if we drown this info on all the others: ecological,
        biodynamic,biointensif, etc (but with tilling ways) we wont communicate the
        important fukuoka-san message...
        >
        > david holmgren's vegetable garden is done biodynamically ...& years ago
        when we met, he didn't show much interest in changing ways...permaculture
        proposes perennial plants for permanent places but neither him nor bill
        mollison have endorsed no-till for (annual) vegetable growing...we have this
        endeavour to carry on: so lets do it without drowing this unique info on all
        the other stuff...
        > i think that in the titles of the sections/sub-sections: the no-tilling,
        self-fertile dynamic of this agriculture should be emphasized or at least
        mentionned...
        >
        > my comments on larry's posting:
        >
        > What if I change the name "Images" to "Projects" and the description
        > (and purpose) to be: "A collection of reports and photographs of
        > gardens, farms and projects that use the Fukuoka Farming method".
        > i would add the word "principles" to Fukuoka farming method" so as to
        allowd synergistic ag. to be part of the evolution in this research
        > Regarding a place for posting information for teachers as Napi has
        > requested, we currently have a subsection called "Opportunities"
        > with the description: "This section contains a calendar of events,
        > apprenticeship and employment opportunities, classes and seminars,
        > as well as other special offers and opportunities."
        >
        > just as long as the projects relate to activities of gardening without
        tilling...if they are "only" ecological it seems to me we are again missing
        the point of our specificity...
        >
        > As to a place for book reviews, I still think they should go in the
        > "Articles" subsection, but I can change the description to include
        > "book reviews". Would this be OK or do they need to be somehow set
        > off differently?
        >
        > yes: please make it clear that they are books
        >
        > That leaves the question of how comprehensive or focused the links
        > section should be. On the one hand there is the risk of distracting
        > from the focus on Fukuoka's teachings and methods. On the other hand
        > it would give people easier access to other somewhat kindred websites.
        >
        > Let me clairfy something here. In my mind (and on my lists of links)
        > there are three different categories of links.
        >
        > The first is sites that have specific Fukuoka-related content --
        > the Greenbelt project in Europe, news articles and interviews about
        > and with Fukuoka, where to get his books, other documents that talk
        > about him and his methods, etc.
        >
        > The second category is sites that have information that might be
        > directly useful in implementing a project using Fukuoka's methods
        > -- plant encyclopedias, research documents on cover crops, trees
        > or whatever, sources for organic seeds, etc.
        >
        > I don't think anyone would argue against including those two categories
        > of links, but if I'm wrong please let me know.
        >
        > this 2 categories are up to the point
        >
        > The third category is sites related to other methods of sustainable
        > agriculture -- Permaculture, biointensive, biodynamic... pick your
        > favorite flavor -- and philosophically friendly sites -- holistic
        > lifestyles, tree-hugging, etc. This, for me, is where things become
        > sticky.
        >
        > what about just mentioning one permaculture site (like the british one)
        that would give the many other links?
        >
        > My concern with including the category three links, given the conditions
        > I just outlined, is that they will be providing nothing more than
        > a distraction and escape from having to think about and confront
        > what Fukuoka is all about -- natural farming. i agree
        >
        > emilia
        >
        > Larry Haftl
        > larry@...
        > http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
        > http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
        >
        >
        >
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