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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Proposed changes to website

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  • emilia
    the special particularity of natural ag. is the maintaining the dynamic of a wild soil in spite of practicing an agriculture system...agriculture is a
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 7, 2002
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      the special particularity of natural ag. is the maintaining the dynamic of a wild soil in spite of practicing an agriculture system...agriculture is a manipulation, meaning an action is done by human hands: which implies we are imposing something to whatever could have been there "naturally"...but out of all the "manipulations" that humans can do, if the one done is stablishing an agriculture with a dynamic that corresponds to what the soil would have going there if let to itself (instead of agriculturally occupied): is a less harmful thing that whatever other agriculture disturbing the soil would be happening there...
      so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever other "systems" that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances started by touching the soil...it seems to me that we are missing the point, the purpose of the site: the vegetable ( including of annuals) production with soil's self-fertility should be emphasized as what it is: a unique proposition!
      if we drown this info on all the others: ecological, biodynamic,biointensif, etc (but with tilling ways) we wont communicate the important fukuoka-san message...

      david holmgren's vegetable garden is done biodynamically ...& years ago when we met, he didn't show much interest in changing ways...permaculture proposes perennial plants for permanent places but neither him nor bill mollison have endorsed no-till for (annual) vegetable growing...we have this endeavour to carry on: so lets do it without drowing this unique info on all the other stuff...
      i think that in the titles of the sections/sub-sections: the no-tilling, self-fertile dynamic of this agriculture should be emphasized or at least mentionned...

      my comments on larry's posting:

      What if I change the name "Images" to "Projects" and the description
      (and purpose) to be: "A collection of reports and photographs of
      gardens, farms and projects that use the Fukuoka Farming method".
      i would add the word "principles" to Fukuoka farming method" so as to allowd synergistic ag. to be part of the evolution in this research
      Regarding a place for posting information for teachers as Napi has
      requested, we currently have a subsection called "Opportunities"
      with the description: "This section contains a calendar of events,
      apprenticeship and employment opportunities, classes and seminars,
      as well as other special offers and opportunities."

      just as long as the projects relate to activities of gardening without tilling...if they are "only" ecological it seems to me we are again missing the point of our specificity...

      As to a place for book reviews, I still think they should go in the
      "Articles" subsection, but I can change the description to include
      "book reviews". Would this be OK or do they need to be somehow set
      off differently?

      yes: please make it clear that they are books

      That leaves the question of how comprehensive or focused the links
      section should be. On the one hand there is the risk of distracting
      from the focus on Fukuoka's teachings and methods. On the other hand
      it would give people easier access to other somewhat kindred websites.

      Let me clairfy something here. In my mind (and on my lists of links)
      there are three different categories of links.

      The first is sites that have specific Fukuoka-related content --
      the Greenbelt project in Europe, news articles and interviews about
      and with Fukuoka, where to get his books, other documents that talk
      about him and his methods, etc.

      The second category is sites that have information that might be
      directly useful in implementing a project using Fukuoka's methods
      -- plant encyclopedias, research documents on cover crops, trees
      or whatever, sources for organic seeds, etc.

      I don't think anyone would argue against including those two categories
      of links, but if I'm wrong please let me know.

      this 2 categories are up to the point

      The third category is sites related to other methods of sustainable
      agriculture -- Permaculture, biointensive, biodynamic... pick your
      favorite flavor -- and philosophically friendly sites -- holistic
      lifestyles, tree-hugging, etc. This, for me, is where things become
      sticky.

      what about just mentioning one permaculture site (like the british one) that would give the many other links?

      My concern with including the category three links, given the conditions
      I just outlined, is that they will be providing nothing more than
      a distraction and escape from having to think about and confront
      what Fukuoka is all about -- natural farming. i agree

      emilia

      Larry Haftl
      larry@...
      http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
      http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org








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    • Justin .
      ... How does Agroforestry fit in with this. Does Forest Gardening involve any tilling? If not, it sounds like there would be no problem giving links for that.
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 7, 2002
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        >From: "emilia" <emhaz@...>
        >the special particularity of natural ag. is the maintaining the dynamic of
        >a wild soil in spite of practicing an agriculture system...agriculture is a
        >manipulation, meaning an action is done by human hands: which implies we
        >are imposing something to whatever could have been there "naturally"...but
        >out of all the "manipulations" that humans can do, if the one done is
        >stablishing an agriculture with a dynamic that corresponds to what the soil
        >would have going there if let to itself (instead of agriculturally
        >occupied): is a less harmful thing that whatever other agriculture
        >disturbing the soil would be happening there...
        >so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be
        >consistent with this particularity of no-till...


        How does Agroforestry fit in with this. Does Forest Gardening involve any
        tilling? If not, it sounds like there would be no problem giving links for
        that.
        Regarding Permaculture, I think the suggestion of a link to the British site
        is a good idea. There are lots of people involved with that association who
        are interested in and perhaps use Fukuoka's techniques. I am sure also that
        if you asked them, they would add our site to their links page. That would
        be very good.

        An example of no-till permaculture could be Ben Law. He has a book, "The
        Woodland Way: A Permaculture Approach to Sustainable Woodland Management"
        which I will be happy to review once I've read it. He is the coppicer. I
        don't think he ever tills. As I have said, his woods have been continually
        coppiced for 400 years. This then, also seems consistent.

        Emilia, do you have a web-site?
        Best wishes,
        Justin.


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      • Beatrice Gilboa
        ... consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever other systems that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances started
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 8, 2002
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          emilia wrote:

          >> so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be
          consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever
          other "systems" that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances
          started by touching the soil...it seems to me that we are missing the point,
          the purpose of the site: the vegetable ( including of annuals) production
          with soil's self-fertility should be emphasized as what it is: a unique
          proposition!
          if we drown this info on all the others: ecological,
          biodynamic,biointensif, etc (but with tilling ways) we wont communicate the
          important fukuoka-san message...

          So is my opinion too, more clearly said than I did before.

          Beatrice
          Israƫl



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "emilia" <emhaz@...>
          To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:12 PM
          Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Proposed changes to website


          > the special particularity of natural ag. is the maintaining the dynamic of
          a wild soil in spite of practicing an agriculture system...agriculture is a
          manipulation, meaning an action is done by human hands: which implies we are
          imposing something to whatever could have been there "naturally"...but out
          of all the "manipulations" that humans can do, if the one done is
          stablishing an agriculture with a dynamic that corresponds to what the soil
          would have going there if let to itself (instead of agriculturally
          occupied): is a less harmful thing that whatever other agriculture
          disturbing the soil would be happening there...
          > so my opinion on what links, etc. to put on the fukuoka site should be
          consistent with this particularity of no-till...if we integrate whatever
          other "systems" that are already recommending remedies to the disbalances
          started by touching the soil...it seems to me that we are missing the point,
          the purpose of the site: the vegetable ( including of annuals) production
          with soil's self-fertility should be emphasized as what it is: a unique
          proposition!
          > if we drown this info on all the others: ecological,
          biodynamic,biointensif, etc (but with tilling ways) we wont communicate the
          important fukuoka-san message...
          >
          > david holmgren's vegetable garden is done biodynamically ...& years ago
          when we met, he didn't show much interest in changing ways...permaculture
          proposes perennial plants for permanent places but neither him nor bill
          mollison have endorsed no-till for (annual) vegetable growing...we have this
          endeavour to carry on: so lets do it without drowing this unique info on all
          the other stuff...
          > i think that in the titles of the sections/sub-sections: the no-tilling,
          self-fertile dynamic of this agriculture should be emphasized or at least
          mentionned...
          >
          > my comments on larry's posting:
          >
          > What if I change the name "Images" to "Projects" and the description
          > (and purpose) to be: "A collection of reports and photographs of
          > gardens, farms and projects that use the Fukuoka Farming method".
          > i would add the word "principles" to Fukuoka farming method" so as to
          allowd synergistic ag. to be part of the evolution in this research
          > Regarding a place for posting information for teachers as Napi has
          > requested, we currently have a subsection called "Opportunities"
          > with the description: "This section contains a calendar of events,
          > apprenticeship and employment opportunities, classes and seminars,
          > as well as other special offers and opportunities."
          >
          > just as long as the projects relate to activities of gardening without
          tilling...if they are "only" ecological it seems to me we are again missing
          the point of our specificity...
          >
          > As to a place for book reviews, I still think they should go in the
          > "Articles" subsection, but I can change the description to include
          > "book reviews". Would this be OK or do they need to be somehow set
          > off differently?
          >
          > yes: please make it clear that they are books
          >
          > That leaves the question of how comprehensive or focused the links
          > section should be. On the one hand there is the risk of distracting
          > from the focus on Fukuoka's teachings and methods. On the other hand
          > it would give people easier access to other somewhat kindred websites.
          >
          > Let me clairfy something here. In my mind (and on my lists of links)
          > there are three different categories of links.
          >
          > The first is sites that have specific Fukuoka-related content --
          > the Greenbelt project in Europe, news articles and interviews about
          > and with Fukuoka, where to get his books, other documents that talk
          > about him and his methods, etc.
          >
          > The second category is sites that have information that might be
          > directly useful in implementing a project using Fukuoka's methods
          > -- plant encyclopedias, research documents on cover crops, trees
          > or whatever, sources for organic seeds, etc.
          >
          > I don't think anyone would argue against including those two categories
          > of links, but if I'm wrong please let me know.
          >
          > this 2 categories are up to the point
          >
          > The third category is sites related to other methods of sustainable
          > agriculture -- Permaculture, biointensive, biodynamic... pick your
          > favorite flavor -- and philosophically friendly sites -- holistic
          > lifestyles, tree-hugging, etc. This, for me, is where things become
          > sticky.
          >
          > what about just mentioning one permaculture site (like the british one)
          that would give the many other links?
          >
          > My concern with including the category three links, given the conditions
          > I just outlined, is that they will be providing nothing more than
          > a distraction and escape from having to think about and confront
          > what Fukuoka is all about -- natural farming. i agree
          >
          > emilia
          >
          > Larry Haftl
          > larry@...
          > http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
          > http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
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