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Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fwd: Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka

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  • Boovarahan Srinivasan
    While I don t accept Palekar s comments , I still admire his methods which resulted in turning many farmers from chemical farming to organic farming. The so
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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      While I don't accept Palekar's comments , I still admire his methods which
      resulted in turning many farmers from chemical farming to organic farming.

      The so called additives - Jeevamrutha of Palekar / Panchagavya of
      Nammazhwar / Amudha Karaisal of Karikalan all depend on Indian breed
      cow's urine and dung and some sweetener like jaggery / molasses . The most
      important factor is that they don't go against tilling which is
      fundamentally opposed in natural farming.

      I have attended the seminar's of Palekar / Nammazhwar but found everybody
      has his own ego . While Palekar considers inferior all other inputs other
      than his Jeevamrutha , Nammazhwar never talks about any additive other than
      Panchagavya. It all ends in one man projecting himself as spear header /
      leader .

      While Fukuoka never projected his natural farming methods as the ONLY
      viable method , he was magnanimous enough to appreciate good work done by
      others like Bill Mollison , Bhaskar Save , Palekar etc.. But others don't
      have such magnanimity and want to project themselves ALONE as heroes.

      What a pity !

      Boovarahan S
      Chennai.
      09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nandan Palaparambil
      Like Subash Palekar lot of people misunderstands Natural farming and concludes it is about leaving everything to nature. In addition to if there is a mention
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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        Like Subash Palekar lot of people misunderstands Natural farming and concludes it is about leaving everything to nature. In addition to if there is a mention about 'do-nothing', then people think they completely understand the scenario of natural farming and they don't even read/discuss to understand.

        People gets attracted to preparations like 'Jeewamritha', but in my opinion if cow dung, cow urine mixed together and sprayed over the mulch will have the same effect as applying 'Jeewamritha'. Fukuoka san could achieve the same thing by applying the chicken manure which is much more efficient. It is a good thing that Subash Palekar could convert lot of chemical farmers to natural farming (+ the preparation), and his books help in planning the orchard and gives which all crops can be selected for mixed planting.

        But it is a pity that Subash Palekar was criticising Masanobu Fukuoka's natural farming without understanding the subject.


        Regards,
        Nandan


        ________________________________
        From: Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...>
        To: Fukuoka Farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 2:01 PM
        Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka


         
        Dear Friends,
        Most of the Indian members on this forum may know Sri Subhash Palekar.,
        the proponent of Zero Budget Natural Farming( ZBNF) which primarily farms
        based on Local cow's dung and urine. Just for info, the local cow in India
        is considered as mother, as even waste matter from it is beneficial in many
        ways(medicine and manure), and the cow continues to be worshiped and used
        in farming activities.

        Yesterday, I visited one of his session in Hyderabad to enquire about his
        books along with a friend. We went almost towards the closing hours of the
        inaugural day session. During the 15 minutes I stayed there, Sri Palekar
        made some comments on Fukuoka's do-nothing method which actually pained me.
        I want to share them here to express my concern. I also wrote an email to
        him expressing my concern.

        His words( my words in brackets ): " Attendees, I want to tell you that
        Natural farming and my ZBNF are different. NF was first introduced to the
        world by Japanese plant scientist Masanobu Fukuoka. He practiced and
        proposed a method called do-nothing farming. That means, just sow the
        seeds,sleep at home, and after the growth period is over, just go to the
        field and collect the harvest( Ignorance? We discussed that many times on
        this forum and concluded that do-nothing means to do-nothing AGAINST
        nature). Many people who listened to him and started following his method,
        sowed the seeds and left the fields. After some days when they went to
        collect harvest, there was nothing as weeds have taken control and the
        crops died. Many people lost heavily by following his method ( Really??).
        After his death, even his farm in Japan was converted to chemical farming
        again. We must do some necessary things( Like applying Jeevamrutha? Human
        ego?), otherwise we will not get crops. People also say that ZBNF is
        ancient. That is also false. In ancient method people used to dump cart
        loads of FYM in the fields.....(and he went on to say that his method is
        very new and developed by him alone....reminded me of Bill Mollison who
        felt that nature was not perfect).

        My feeling: I have good respect for Sri Palekar, as I feel that to the lay
        farmer who will definitely not accept do-nothing farming( due to his
        livelihood concerns and fears), ZBNF is a good method to shift from
        chemical to natural methods as it appeals with it's do-this and do-that
        tone. I also believe that the 'principles' of ZBNF are very similar to NF.
        The only thing is the do-nothing is a superior and more closer to nature
        method ( or non-method). There are many visionaries in India itself who
        developed their own sustainable methods ( as discussed many times on this
        forum). The goal of each one was to move closer to nature and natural
        methods. If all such great workers of this earth come together and work
        keeping aside their ego and differences, the world could be a much better
        place. If someone says that his method is the only one that works or trying
        to prove it's superiority over other methods (without proper facts), it is
        detrimental to people. Personally, I felt bad about Palekar's remarks on
        Fukuoka's do-nothing farming. Ironically, Palekar himself refers to the
        forest eco-system as a basis for his methods. That means he is actually
        basing his methods on do-nothing-by-man and do-nothing-against-nature
        principles.

        If ego takes over, there is only one way to go. Downward.

        Thanks and Regards
        Yugandhar

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Shashi Kumar
        All, There are host people who do not agree with what we do daily but we still do it. Just how we have a view on what is farming, palekar has his own view,
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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          All,

          There are host people who do not agree with what we do daily' but we still
          do it. Just how we have a view on what is farming, palekar has his own
          view, method he employs seems to be personal attack rather than by proof.
          Best solution to handle such people is ignore them.

          Regards
          Shashi




          On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Nandan Palaparambil
          <p_k_nandanan@...>wrote:

          > Like Subash Palekar lot of people misunderstands Natural farming and
          > concludes it is about leaving everything to nature. In addition to if there
          > is a mention about 'do-nothing', then people think they completely
          > understand the scenario of natural farming and they don't even read/discuss
          > to understand.
          >
          > People gets attracted to preparations like 'Jeewamritha', but in my
          > opinion if cow dung, cow urine mixed together and sprayed over the mulch
          > will have the same effect as applying 'Jeewamritha'. Fukuoka san could
          > achieve the same thing by applying the chicken manure which is much more
          > efficient. It is a good thing that Subash Palekar could convert lot of
          > chemical farmers to natural farming (+ the preparation), and his books help
          > in planning the orchard and gives which all crops can be selected for mixed
          > planting.
          >
          > But it is a pity that Subash Palekar was criticising Masanobu Fukuoka's
          > natural farming without understanding the subject.
          >
          >
          > Regards,
          > Nandan
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...>
          > To: Fukuoka Farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 2:01 PM
          > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
          >
          >
          >
          > Dear Friends,
          > Most of the Indian members on this forum may know Sri Subhash Palekar.,
          > the proponent of Zero Budget Natural Farming( ZBNF) which primarily farms
          > based on Local cow's dung and urine. Just for info, the local cow in India
          > is considered as mother, as even waste matter from it is beneficial in many
          > ways(medicine and manure), and the cow continues to be worshiped and used
          > in farming activities.
          >
          > Yesterday, I visited one of his session in Hyderabad to enquire about his
          > books along with a friend. We went almost towards the closing hours of the
          > inaugural day session. During the 15 minutes I stayed there, Sri Palekar
          > made some comments on Fukuoka's do-nothing method which actually pained me.
          > I want to share them here to express my concern. I also wrote an email to
          > him expressing my concern.
          >
          > His words( my words in brackets ): " Attendees, I want to tell you that
          > Natural farming and my ZBNF are different. NF was first introduced to the
          > world by Japanese plant scientist Masanobu Fukuoka. He practiced and
          > proposed a method called do-nothing farming. That means, just sow the
          > seeds,sleep at home, and after the growth period is over, just go to the
          > field and collect the harvest( Ignorance? We discussed that many times on
          > this forum and concluded that do-nothing means to do-nothing AGAINST
          > nature). Many people who listened to him and started following his method,
          > sowed the seeds and left the fields. After some days when they went to
          > collect harvest, there was nothing as weeds have taken control and the
          > crops died. Many people lost heavily by following his method ( Really??).
          > After his death, even his farm in Japan was converted to chemical farming
          > again. We must do some necessary things( Like applying Jeevamrutha? Human
          > ego?), otherwise we will not get crops. People also say that ZBNF is
          > ancient. That is also false. In ancient method people used to dump cart
          > loads of FYM in the fields.....(and he went on to say that his method is
          > very new and developed by him alone....reminded me of Bill Mollison who
          > felt that nature was not perfect).
          >
          > My feeling: I have good respect for Sri Palekar, as I feel that to the lay
          > farmer who will definitely not accept do-nothing farming( due to his
          > livelihood concerns and fears), ZBNF is a good method to shift from
          > chemical to natural methods as it appeals with it's do-this and do-that
          > tone. I also believe that the 'principles' of ZBNF are very similar to NF.
          > The only thing is the do-nothing is a superior and more closer to nature
          > method ( or non-method). There are many visionaries in India itself who
          > developed their own sustainable methods ( as discussed many times on this
          > forum). The goal of each one was to move closer to nature and natural
          > methods. If all such great workers of this earth come together and work
          > keeping aside their ego and differences, the world could be a much better
          > place. If someone says that his method is the only one that works or trying
          > to prove it's superiority over other methods (without proper facts), it is
          > detrimental to people. Personally, I felt bad about Palekar's remarks on
          > Fukuoka's do-nothing farming. Ironically, Palekar himself refers to the
          > forest eco-system as a basis for his methods. That means he is actually
          > basing his methods on do-nothing-by-man and do-nothing-against-nature
          > principles.
          >
          > If ego takes over, there is only one way to go. Downward.
          >
          > Thanks and Regards
          > Yugandhar
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Anant Joglekar
          If you spit on SUN it boomerang on your own face.Criticizing Fukuoka is --------   anant joglekar 9423089706 The ultimate goal of natural farming is not
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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            If you spit on SUN it boomerang on your own face.Criticizing Fukuoka is --------

             
            anant joglekar
            9423089706

            The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka



            >________________________________
            > From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
            >To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Monday, 2 April 2012 7:49 PM
            >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
            >
            >

            >Like Subash Palekar lot of people misunderstands Natural farming and concludes it is about leaving everything to nature. In addition to if there is a mention about 'do-nothing', then people think they completely understand the scenario of natural farming and they don't even read/discuss to understand.
            >
            >People gets attracted to preparations like 'Jeewamritha', but in my opinion if cow dung, cow urine mixed together and sprayed over the mulch will have the same effect as applying 'Jeewamritha'. Fukuoka san could achieve the same thing by applying the chicken manure which is much more efficient. It is a good thing that Subash Palekar could convert lot of chemical farmers to natural farming (+ the preparation), and his books help in planning the orchard and gives which all crops can be selected for mixed planting.
            >
            >But it is a pity that Subash Palekar was criticising Masanobu Fukuoka's natural farming without understanding the subject.
            >
            >Regards,
            >Nandan
            >
            >________________________________
            >From: Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...>
            >To: Fukuoka Farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
            >Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 2:01 PM
            >Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
            >
            >

            >Dear Friends,
            >Most of the Indian members on this forum may know Sri Subhash Palekar.,
            >the proponent of Zero Budget Natural Farming( ZBNF) which primarily farms
            >based on Local cow's dung and urine. Just for info, the local cow in India
            >is considered as mother, as even waste matter from it is beneficial in many
            >ways(medicine and manure), and the cow continues to be worshiped and used
            >in farming activities.
            >
            >Yesterday, I visited one of his session in Hyderabad to enquire about his
            >books along with a friend. We went almost towards the closing hours of the
            >inaugural day session. During the 15 minutes I stayed there, Sri Palekar
            >made some comments on Fukuoka's do-nothing method which actually pained me.
            >I want to share them here to express my concern. I also wrote an email to
            >him expressing my concern.
            >
            >His words( my words in brackets ): " Attendees, I want to tell you that
            >Natural farming and my ZBNF are different. NF was first introduced to the
            >world by Japanese plant scientist Masanobu Fukuoka. He practiced and
            >proposed a method called do-nothing farming. That means, just sow the
            >seeds,sleep at home, and after the growth period is over, just go to the
            >field and collect the harvest( Ignorance? We discussed that many times on
            >this forum and concluded that do-nothing means to do-nothing AGAINST
            >nature). Many people who listened to him and started following his method,
            >sowed the seeds and left the fields. After some days when they went to
            >collect harvest, there was nothing as weeds have taken control and the
            >crops died. Many people lost heavily by following his method ( Really??).
            >After his death, even his farm in Japan was converted to chemical farming
            >again. We must do some necessary things( Like applying Jeevamrutha? Human
            >ego?), otherwise we will not get crops. People also say that ZBNF is
            >ancient. That is also false. In ancient method people used to dump cart
            >loads of FYM in the fields.....(and he went on to say that his method is
            >very new and developed by him alone....reminded me of Bill Mollison who
            >felt that nature was not perfect).
            >
            >My feeling: I have good respect for Sri Palekar, as I feel that to the lay
            >farmer who will definitely not accept do-nothing farming( due to his
            >livelihood concerns and fears), ZBNF is a good method to shift from
            >chemical to natural methods as it appeals with it's do-this and do-that
            >tone. I also believe that the 'principles' of ZBNF are very similar to NF.
            >The only thing is the do-nothing is a superior and more closer to nature
            >method ( or non-method). There are many visionaries in India itself who
            >developed their own sustainable methods ( as discussed many times on this
            >forum). The goal of each one was to move closer to nature and natural
            >methods. If all such great workers of this earth come together and work
            >keeping aside their ego and differences, the world could be a much better
            >place. If someone says that his method is the only one that works or trying
            >to prove it's superiority over other methods (without proper facts), it is
            >detrimental to people. Personally, I felt bad about Palekar's remarks on
            >Fukuoka's do-nothing farming. Ironically, Palekar himself refers to the
            >forest eco-system as a basis for his methods. That means he is actually
            >basing his methods on do-nothing-by-man and do-nothing-against-nature
            >principles.
            >
            >If ego takes over, there is only one way to go. Downward.
            >
            >Thanks and Regards
            >Yugandhar
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Anant Joglekar
            EGO is like a ECLIPSE overshadowing all the BRIGHTNESS of PERSONALITY. Let US pray for Mr Palekar................. May god bless him..........   anant
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
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              EGO is like a ECLIPSE overshadowing all the BRIGHTNESS of PERSONALITY.


              Let US pray for Mr Palekar.................

              May god bless him..........

               
              anant joglekar
              9423089706

              The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the cultivation and perfection of human beings.  Masanobu Fukuoka



              >________________________________
              > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
              >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Monday, 2 April 2012 7:06 PM
              >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fwd: Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
              >
              >

              >While I don't accept Palekar's comments , I still admire his methods which
              >resulted in turning many farmers from chemical farming to organic farming.
              >
              >The so called additives - Jeevamrutha of Palekar / Panchagavya of
              >Nammazhwar / Amudha Karaisal of Karikalan all depend on Indian breed
              >cow's urine and dung and some sweetener like jaggery / molasses . The most
              >important factor is that they don't go against tilling which is
              >fundamentally opposed in natural farming.
              >
              >I have attended the seminar's of Palekar / Nammazhwar but found everybody
              >has his own ego . While Palekar considers inferior all other inputs other
              >than his Jeevamrutha , Nammazhwar never talks about any additive other than
              >Panchagavya. It all ends in one man projecting himself as spear header /
              >leader .
              >
              >While Fukuoka never projected his natural farming methods as the ONLY
              >viable method , he was magnanimous enough to appreciate good work done by
              >others like Bill Mollison , Bhaskar Save , Palekar etc.. But others don't
              >have such magnanimity and want to project themselves ALONE as heroes.
              >
              >What a pity !
              >
              >Boovarahan S
              >Chennai.
              >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ruthie Aquino
              Dear Indian friends, dear friends, Once again your reactions above have shown your humility. To me intellectual humility is a sure sign of intelligence. Far be
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 2, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Indian friends, dear friends,
                Once again your reactions above have shown your humility.
                To me intellectual humility is a sure sign of intelligence.
                Far be it from me to be flattering anybody here, I am just so do-nothingly
                happy to have you men who do not answer (verbal) violence with violence.
                Have a nice day.
                RUTHIE



                2012/4/3 Anant Joglekar <apjoglekar@...>

                > **
                >
                >
                > EGO is like a ECLIPSE overshadowing all the BRIGHTNESS of PERSONALITY.
                >
                > Let US pray for Mr Palekar.................
                >
                > May god bless him..........
                >
                >
                > anant joglekar
                > 9423089706
                >
                > The ultimate goal of natural farming is not simply growing crops but the
                > cultivation and perfection of human beings. Masanobu Fukuoka
                >
                > >________________________________
                > > From: Boovarahan Srinivasan <offtown@...>
                > >To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
                > >Sent: Monday, 2 April 2012 7:06 PM
                > >Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Fwd: Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
                >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >While I don't accept Palekar's comments , I still admire his methods which
                > >resulted in turning many farmers from chemical farming to organic farming.
                > >
                > >The so called additives - Jeevamrutha of Palekar / Panchagavya of
                > >Nammazhwar / Amudha Karaisal of Karikalan all depend on Indian breed
                > >cow's urine and dung and some sweetener like jaggery / molasses . The most
                > >important factor is that they don't go against tilling which is
                > >fundamentally opposed in natural farming.
                > >
                > >I have attended the seminar's of Palekar / Nammazhwar but found everybody
                > >has his own ego . While Palekar considers inferior all other inputs other
                > >than his Jeevamrutha , Nammazhwar never talks about any additive other
                > than
                > >Panchagavya. It all ends in one man projecting himself as spear header /
                > >leader .
                > >
                > >While Fukuoka never projected his natural farming methods as the ONLY
                > >viable method , he was magnanimous enough to appreciate good work done by
                > >others like Bill Mollison , Bhaskar Save , Palekar etc.. But others don't
                > >have such magnanimity and want to project themselves ALONE as heroes.
                > >
                > >What a pity !
                > >
                > >Boovarahan S
                > >Chennai.
                > >09962662717 (Vodafone) , 08825889492 (Videocon)
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Travellingatthespeedofthought
                EGO This is what happens when we forget that everything comes from Mother Nature.   Zac ________________________________ From: Yugandhar S
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 3, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  EGO

                  This is what happens when we forget that everything comes from Mother Nature.  

                  Zac


                  ________________________________
                  From: Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...>
                  To: Fukuoka Farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 2:16 PM
                  Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka

                  Dear Friends,
                    Most of the Indian members on this forum may know Sri Subhash Palekar.,
                  the proponent of Zero Budget Natural Farming( ZBNF) which primarily farms
                  based on Local cow's dung and urine. Just for info, the local cow in India
                  is considered as mother, as even waste matter from it is beneficial in many
                  ways(medicine and manure), and the cow continues to be worshiped and used
                  in farming activities.

                  Yesterday, I visited one of his session in Hyderabad to enquire about his
                  books along with a friend. We went almost towards the closing hours of the
                  inaugural day session. During the 15 minutes I stayed there, Sri Palekar
                  made some comments on Fukuoka's do-nothing method which actually pained me.
                  I want to share them here to express my concern. I also wrote an email to
                  him expressing my concern.

                  His words( my words in brackets ): " Attendees, I want to tell you that
                  Natural farming and my ZBNF are different. NF was first introduced to the
                  world by Japanese plant scientist Masanobu Fukuoka. He practiced and
                  proposed a method called do-nothing farming. That means, just sow the
                  seeds,sleep at home, and after the growth period is over, just go to the
                  field and collect the harvest( Ignorance? We discussed that many times on
                  this forum and concluded that do-nothing means to do-nothing AGAINST
                  nature). Many people who listened to him and started following his method,
                  sowed the seeds and left the fields. After some days when they went to
                  collect harvest, there was nothing as weeds have taken control and the
                  crops died. Many people lost heavily by following his method ( Really??).
                  After his death, even his farm in Japan was converted to chemical farming
                  again. We must do some necessary things( Like applying Jeevamrutha? Human
                  ego?), otherwise we will not get crops. People also say that ZBNF is
                  ancient. That is also false. In ancient method people used to dump cart
                  loads of FYM in the fields.....(and he went on to say that his method is
                  very new and developed by him alone....reminded me of Bill Mollison who
                  felt that nature was not perfect).

                  My feeling: I have good respect for Sri Palekar, as I feel that to the lay
                  farmer who will definitely not accept do-nothing farming( due to his
                  livelihood concerns and fears), ZBNF is a good method to shift from
                  chemical to natural methods as it appeals with it's do-this and do-that
                  tone. I also believe that the 'principles' of ZBNF are very similar to NF.
                  The only thing is the do-nothing is a superior and more closer to nature
                  method ( or non-method). There are many visionaries in India itself who
                  developed their own sustainable methods ( as discussed many times on this
                  forum). The goal of each one was to move closer to nature and natural
                  methods. If all such great workers of this earth come together and work
                  keeping aside their ego and differences, the world could be a much better
                  place. If someone says that his method is the only one that works or trying
                  to prove it's superiority over other methods (without proper facts), it is
                  detrimental to people. Personally, I felt bad about Palekar's remarks on
                  Fukuoka's do-nothing farming. Ironically, Palekar himself refers to the
                  forest eco-system as a basis for his methods. That means he is actually
                  basing his methods on do-nothing-by-man and do-nothing-against-nature
                  principles.

                  If ego takes over, there is only one way to go. Downward.

                  Thanks and Regards
                  Yugandhar


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jason Stewart
                  Thank you Yugandhar, for your clarification. And: In my logic--based aspect of awareness: It is exactly the nature (illusion and exclusivity) of ego to divert
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 3, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you Yugandhar,
                    for your clarification.

                    And:
                    In my logic--based aspect of awareness:
                    It is exactly the nature (illusion and exclusivity) of ego to divert from wholeheartedly becoming part of and participating within that which is much bigger than (more inclusive than) ourself--(ego) -- nature is much bigger than, inclusive of and more inclusive than, ourself--(ego). Emphasising, nature includes humans and our'selves'--('ego'), only those suffering from these self--exclusion--illusions of ego don't or can't see nature as including of them'selves'.

                    Does anyone have any responses of additional Fukuoka Masanobu books translation languages?


                    sincerely biggest best true nature with all,

                    Jason Stewart
                    --in Cairns at the moment.
                    --Openly accepting of (my) membership of, part within, nature.

                    On 02/04/2012, at 6:34 PM, Yugandhar S wrote:

                    > Palekar also said: "I met Fukuoka when he visited India. I discussed with
                    > him day and night for two days, and at last He agreed that Japanese
                    > do-nothing farming will not work in India, and ZBNF is much better
                    > solution."
                    >
                    > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
                    > From: Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...>
                    > Date: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:01 PM
                    > Subject: Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
                    > To: Fukuoka Farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                    >
                    > Dear Friends,
                    > Most of the Indian members on this forum may know Sri Subhash Palekar.,
                    > the proponent of Zero Budget Natural Farming( ZBNF) which primarily farms
                    > based on Local cow's dung and urine. Just for info, the local cow in India
                    > is considered as mother, as even waste matter from it is beneficial in many
                    > ways(medicine and manure), and the cow continues to be worshiped and used
                    > in farming activities.
                    >
                    > Yesterday, I visited one of his session in Hyderabad to enquire about his
                    > books along with a friend. We went almost towards the closing hours of the
                    > inaugural day session. During the 15 minutes I stayed there, Sri Palekar
                    > made some comments on Fukuoka's do-nothing method which actually pained me.
                    > I want to share them here to express my concern. I also wrote an email to
                    > him expressing my concern.
                    >
                    > His words( my words in brackets ): " Attendees, I want to tell you that
                    > Natural farming and my ZBNF are different. NF was first introduced to the
                    > world by Japanese plant scientist Masanobu Fukuoka. He practiced and
                    > proposed a method called do-nothing farming. That means, just sow the
                    > seeds,sleep at home, and after the growth period is over, just go to the
                    > field and collect the harvest( Ignorance? We discussed that many times on
                    > this forum and concluded that do-nothing means to do-nothing AGAINST
                    > nature). Many people who listened to him and started following his method,
                    > sowed the seeds and left the fields. After some days when they went to
                    > collect harvest, there was nothing as weeds have taken control and the
                    > crops died. Many people lost heavily by following his method ( Really??).
                    > After his death, even his farm in Japan was converted to chemical farming
                    > again. We must do some necessary things( Like applying Jeevamrutha? Human
                    > ego?), otherwise we will not get crops. People also say that ZBNF is
                    > ancient. That is also false. In ancient method people used to dump cart
                    > loads of FYM in the fields.....(and he went on to say that his method is
                    > very new and developed by him alone....reminded me of Bill Mollison who
                    > felt that nature was not perfect).
                    >
                    > My feeling: I have good respect for Sri Palekar, as I feel that to the lay
                    > farmer who will definitely not accept do-nothing farming( due to his
                    > livelihood concerns and fears), ZBNF is a good method to shift from
                    > chemical to natural methods as it appeals with it's do-this and do-that
                    > tone. I also believe that the 'principles' of ZBNF are very similar to NF.
                    > The only thing is the do-nothing is a superior and more closer to nature
                    > method ( or non-method). There are many visionaries in India itself who
                    > developed their own sustainable methods ( as discussed many times on this
                    > forum). The goal of each one was to move closer to nature and natural
                    > methods. If all such great workers of this earth come together and work
                    > keeping aside their ego and differences, the world could be a much better
                    > place. If someone says that his method is the only one that works or trying
                    > to prove it's superiority over other methods (without proper facts), it is
                    > detrimental to people. Personally, I felt bad about Palekar's remarks on
                    > Fukuoka's do-nothing farming. Ironically, Palekar himself refers to the
                    > forest eco-system as a basis for his methods. That means he is actually
                    > basing his methods on do-nothing-by-man and do-nothing-against-nature
                    > principles.
                    >
                    > If ego takes over, there is only one way to go. Downward.
                    >
                    > Thanks and Regards
                    > Yugandhar
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > TODAY(Beta) � Powered by Yahoo!
                    > Big hiring returns to U.S. colleges
                    > After a four-year slump, campuses are now teeming with companies eager to find employees.
                    > Privacy Policy


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jason Stewart
                    On this subject, i think you all will find this high quality, highly informative, recent radio program really eye opening: See: →
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 3, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On this subject, i think you all will find this high quality, highly informative, recent radio program really eye opening:

                      See: → http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/numinous-cosmos/3864728


                      NUMINOUS COSMOS

                      Listen nowDownload audio
                      Broadcast:Thursday 15 March 2012 8:05PM (view full episode)
                      What is a better tool for gaining knowledge and discovering truth—science or spirituality? Or are the scientific and spiritual approaches not so different after all? A physicist, a Buddhist monk and a biologist talk about the numinous cosmos and enlightenment.

                      Guests
                      David Blair
                      Astrophysicist and Director of Australian International Gravitational Research Centre.
                      Abbot Ajahn Brahm
                      Spiritual Director of the *Buddhist* Society of Western Australia
                      Dr Stephen Wylie
                      Molecular Biologist at Murdoch University

                      Please let me know if you can't access it by downloading or streaming, i can immediately assist as i've downloaded it (and it is free).


                      sincerely biggest best true nature with all,

                      Jason Stewart
                      --in Cairns at the moment.
                      --Openly accepting of (my) membership of, part within, nature.

                      On 03/04/2012, at 6:03 PM, Travellingatthespeedofthought wrote:

                      > EGO
                      >
                      > This is what happens when we forget that everything comes from Mother Nature.
                      >
                      > Zac
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Yugandhar S <s.yugandhar@...>
                      > To: Fukuoka Farming <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 2:16 PM
                      > Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Subhash Palekar's comments on Fukuoka
                      >
                      > Dear Friends,
                      > Most of the Indian members on this forum may know Sri Subhash Palekar.,
                      > the proponent of Zero Budget Natural Farming( ZBNF) which primarily farms
                      > based on Local cow's dung and urine. Just for info, the local cow in India
                      > is considered as mother, as even waste matter from it is beneficial in many
                      > ways(medicine and manure), and the cow continues to be worshiped and used
                      > in farming activities.
                      >
                      > Yesterday, I visited one of his session in Hyderabad to enquire about his
                      > books along with a friend. We went almost towards the closing hours of the
                      > inaugural day session. During the 15 minutes I stayed there, Sri Palekar
                      > made some comments on Fukuoka's do-nothing method which actually pained me.
                      > I want to share them here to express my concern. I also wrote an email to
                      > him expressing my concern.
                      >
                      > His words( my words in brackets ): " Attendees, I want to tell you that
                      > Natural farming and my ZBNF are different. NF was first introduced to the
                      > world by Japanese plant scientist Masanobu Fukuoka. He practiced and
                      > proposed a method called do-nothing farming. That means, just sow the
                      > seeds,sleep at home, and after the growth period is over, just go to the
                      > field and collect the harvest( Ignorance? We discussed that many times on
                      > this forum and concluded that do-nothing means to do-nothing AGAINST
                      > nature). Many people who listened to him and started following his method,
                      > sowed the seeds and left the fields. After some days when they went to
                      > collect harvest, there was nothing as weeds have taken control and the
                      > crops died. Many people lost heavily by following his method ( Really??).
                      > After his death, even his farm in Japan was converted to chemical farming
                      > again. We must do some necessary things( Like applying Jeevamrutha? Human
                      > ego?), otherwise we will not get crops. People also say that ZBNF is
                      > ancient. That is also false. In ancient method people used to dump cart
                      > loads of FYM in the fields.....(and he went on to say that his method is
                      > very new and developed by him alone....reminded me of Bill Mollison who
                      > felt that nature was not perfect).
                      >
                      > My feeling: I have good respect for Sri Palekar, as I feel that to the lay
                      > farmer who will definitely not accept do-nothing farming( due to his
                      > livelihood concerns and fears), ZBNF is a good method to shift from
                      > chemical to natural methods as it appeals with it's do-this and do-that
                      > tone. I also believe that the 'principles' of ZBNF are very similar to NF.
                      > The only thing is the do-nothing is a superior and more closer to nature
                      > method ( or non-method). There are many visionaries in India itself who
                      > developed their own sustainable methods ( as discussed many times on this
                      > forum). The goal of each one was to move closer to nature and natural
                      > methods. If all such great workers of this earth come together and work
                      > keeping aside their ego and differences, the world could be a much better
                      > place. If someone says that his method is the only one that works or trying
                      > to prove it's superiority over other methods (without proper facts), it is
                      > detrimental to people. Personally, I felt bad about Palekar's remarks on
                      > Fukuoka's do-nothing farming. Ironically, Palekar himself refers to the
                      > forest eco-system as a basis for his methods. That means he is actually
                      > basing his methods on do-nothing-by-man and do-nothing-against-nature
                      > principles.
                      >
                      > If ego takes over, there is only one way to go. Downward.
                      >
                      > Thanks and Regards
                      > Yugandhar
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jason Stewart
                      Please clarify—realise: → http://www.thedalailamamovie.com/ —Please buy this movie —copyright for the best reasons in the world. Copyright piracy, but
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 4, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Please clarify—realise:

                        http://www.thedalailamamovie.com/
                        —Please buy this movie
                        —copyright for the best reasons in the world.

                        Copyright piracy, but still viewable in full for free (–for preview i say towards buying–)
                        in YouTube here:
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R5l5IWN7qs

                        Please clarify—realise from the dialogue and the Dalai Lama's explanation near the end of the film.


                        sincerely biggest best true nature with all,

                        Jason Stewart
                        --in Cairns at the moment.
                        --Openly accepting of (my) membership of, part within, nature.

                        PS. Also, another clarification and expansion from my clear awareness:
                        ...
                        ...Institutional societal structures established many thousands of years ago involving violence do not lack violence today long after they were established,
                        institutions founded with violence but today not obviously showing violence are still really and very violent (structurally and institutionally)—you would or should know and if not please all be advised. Violence is not just individual physical, but worse of psychological eg. torture, hatred and spiritual warfare and bigger scale of societal and national violence. Being a doormat is defeat—encouraging violent perpetrators to keep stomping their dirt off on one. Self protection and self-defence when clearly necessary for the combined total of less violence than combined total of letting violence perpetrators continue violence over and over again. Please clarify and realise! Flattery misperceptions of superiority are in fact misperceptions of power games, one-up-MAN-ship, exclusion and masked–hidden foundations in prior violence. ...
                        ... (written without much copyediting nor completion—you come to your own awareness realisation and clarification of it. Too many words from me have no use if you don't come to realise it in clearing your own awareness. ... ... ...)

                        On 03/04/2012, at 4:17 PM, Ruthie Aquino wrote:

                        > you men who do not answer (verbal) violence with violence.
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.