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Re: [fukuoka_farming] RE: Children's education

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  • Robert Monie
    Hi Larry and Everybody, Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this one; please check again. Children are not mechanistic and therefore may
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 5, 2002
      Hi Larry and Everybody,
      Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this one; please check again.
      Children are not mechanistic and therefore may be ideally suited to follow the natural farming way. Most children have no trouble just marching after Fukuoka and throwing out the seedballs. Children are featured throughout his latest book in Japanese, "Traveling with Seedballs." Children take readily to any kind of approximately natural agriculture, including biointensive, biodynamic, and forest-farming.
      I don't know of any "magic button" to link all the educational spots that teach children about natural farming, and I doubt I can find another "sister" school like the one in Thailand, but I do know two more web sites about sustainable agriculture and kids. One is concerned with Hidden Villa in the Los Altos Hills of California (which might be a good place for a novice farmer to intern):
      http://www.backdoorjobs.com/farming.html
      and a web notice about a grant in Minnesota designed to give kids some hands on experience in sustainable farming:
      http://www.msmarket.org/news_mfc_children.htm
      Many web sites are temperamental; I hope these come up.
      If I were founding a school (perish the thought), I think I would name it Bergson Nature School, after the French philosopher Henri Bergson, who placed so much value on "intuition," a quality children have in plenty. For grownups, though, we would need to teach a course "engineering yourself, step by step into nature," which Bergson would have found hilariously funny.
      Bob Monie
      Larry Haftl <larry@...> wrote:Robin, Maya, and Napi wrote:

      > If anyone else has a focus on
      > children's education, please tell us a story of how, until they are
      > trained to ignore, they observe.

      Hello,

      I've tried to start this message six times so far and it always comes
      out ugly. So let me ease into it by suggesting you read an article
      by David Holmgren about media technology and children's learning
      abilities. The link is http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.
      html#Header
      and the article is I think the 24th on the list. Its about Media
      Technology.

      I got that link from Bob Monie, though he didn't mention that article
      specifically. I'm trained in journalism with a special focus on video
      media, and Holmgren's observations and suupositions are right on
      the money.

      After you read the article, if you have any questions please ask.

      Larry Haftl
      larry@...
      http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
      http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org








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    • Larry Haftl
      ... one; please ... Hi Robert, I know what you mean about his URLs. Try this one. It seems to consistantly get through to his home page:
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 5, 2002
        At Tuesday, 5 November 2002, you wrote:

        >Hi Larry and Everybody,
        >Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this
        one; please
        >check again.

        Hi Robert,

        I know what you mean about his URLs. Try this one. It seems to consistantly
        get through to his home page:

        http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren

        From there you can get to his articles by clicking on the "Articles
        CD" link.

        Larry Haftl
        larry@...
        http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
        http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
      • Justin .
        Regarding the trouble with getting this url to work: when I received this mail, the url is actually cut in two, with only the first part appearing in blue. Whn
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 6, 2002
          Regarding the trouble with getting this url to work: when I received this
          mail, the url is actually cut in two, with only the first part appearing in
          blue. Whn I stuck it back together it worked. So try this, all on one line:
          http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.html#Header
          Justin.

          ----------------------------------------------------
          I've tried to start this message six times so far and it always comes
          out ugly. So let me ease into it by suggesting you read an article
          by David Holmgren about media technology and children's learning
          abilities. The link is http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.
          html#Header
          and the article is I think the 24th on the list. Its about Media
          Technology.


          _________________________________________________________________
          STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
          http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
        • Robin, Maya, or Napi
          Good morning, Although I have not yet followed the instructions that you sent earlier for tracking down the Holmgren sites, I have saved the directions; it is
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 6, 2002
            Good morning,

            Although I have not yet followed the instructions that you sent
            earlier for tracking down the Holmgren sites, I have saved the
            directions; it is clearly a worthwhile project. Larry has piqued
            curiosity even further.

            The two children's projects below are enriching in their detail &
            inspiring in their example. These links are more to us about brother
            schools (what we also call sister schools) where observing nature &
            garden projects is in the curriculum of both science & spirit, far
            different from planting seeds in styrofoam (!) cups for sale as a PTA
            fundraiser.

            The two sites below are a crisp example of how knowledge from this
            group spreads in ripples through the Circle School. Thank you,
            Robert, for another treat. As we have many times, our staff took
            turns with reading the article & being on duty. One might think that
            we have been lazy to have let so much important research fall into our
            laps, when we could have just typed into the search engine & gone
            looking ourselves. It may be pertinent, not to boast, but proudly, to
            say that, thin as we are spread, we do conduct early childhood
            research, produce conferences & conduct creditable course work,
            including on computer for continuing education requirements of our
            licensure.

            Circle School has an infant nursery, goes through pre-school &
            early elementary, supports homeschoolers of many grades, including
            middle & high school, trains community service interns, including high
            school job training, court ordered community service, corporate &
            student program community service, & for 7 years we have been a
            work-study placement site, for students from the local university who
            are majoring in early childhood education, developmental psychology,
            nursing, physical therapy, social work, art education, physical
            education, etc. So, we are the place where children from the families
            of our blue-collar, drug-blighted, two-hundred year old neighborhood,
            literally from birth through college & still when they become parents,
            has a connection to ongoing natural gardening, a vegetarian cafeteria,
            earth-conscious community projects, & membership in an organic foods
            cooperative. Eight children who have come here have parents who also
            were students here. The parents began as teen interns, volunteered,
            went on staff, now have their own families. Their children here are
            like the grandchildren who share their Ol' Na Na, & inherited the
            schoolhouse & grounds that their parents literally helped build. They
            look through the mirror to see the complex feelings of Fukuoka's
            family. Can we just make this place spiffier, like our normal
            friends' schools?

            Sorry that my reference to the magic button was abstruse. I meant
            to find out if there are is any possibility or intent of visitors to
            the Fukuoka site having a page to early childhood educators, with
            references culled from Traveling with Seedballs, & with links to
            children's projects based on his work, or more generally toward
            children's projects in sustainable gardening. Even if the visitor
            could take the direction from that page only to the Moo Baan Dek
            School in Thailand, & the links below, then the seeking educator would
            have been well served, prepared thus with materials to impress the
            principal or the PTA, that this basis for botany is far beyond the
            flower bed projects where children spoon-dig ready-grown trays of
            seedlings into rows. I would humbly submit a description, with photos
            if necessary or appropriate, of Circle School's Fukuoka-based project
            in the city park.

            The use of the word ugly in an earlier message had alerted me to
            the misunderstanding. In Wednesday morning's e-mail was a happier
            flurry of discussion. Now the readable blurb on the Holmgren article
            (which clicks to say open in Quicktime, & have tried a couple ways to
            no avail) confirms that Mr. Larry & Circle School do have the same
            usage of ugly.

            Holmgrens's Collected Articles says, "The following articles were all
            written concurrently with the manuscript of the new book (in press)
            Permaculture: Principles & Pathways To Sustainability and illustrate
            both classic and novel applications of permaculture thinking.

            Article Twenty Four. DO MEDIA TECHNOLOGIES SCRAMBLE YOUNG MINDS?

            In this previously unpublished article I speculate on how media
            technologies may also involve conceptual
            regressions and losses which undermine our ability to think
            holistically and adapt to an emerging low energy
            future. The ideas were stimulated by the experience of learning
            and teaching skills in reading landscape and
            have been refined through informal discussions on Permaculture
            Design Courses over a number of years. The
            bleak analysis it contains provides a counterbalance to my
            prevailing optimism about information and design
            creativity providing the lubricant for rapid evolution of low
            energy systems."

            Circle School teaching is based on interactive, perceptive,
            television-free, 3D, breathing, live & in person relationships. The
            education includes the children's observation of trial & error. The
            web study of the links to projects that I requested is for the
            educators, with juicy information, like what school districts have
            gotten grants. The link I requested is not to occupy our children,
            that is what the park & the seafloor garden are for.

            One of the highlights of a teacher or parent's eager study of how
            to do right by children, must be the discovery of the works of Joseph
            Chilton Pierce, a strong advocate of Waldorf, as Permaculture's
            founder Holmgren is. Hearing Pierce succinctly lecture on brain
            development - lizard stem as a finger, overlapped by mammal brain as a
            fist, overlapped by human brain as an open hand layered on top -
            parents & teachers are firmly warned about the dangers of development
            out of sequence. By introducing the 'reading' of symbols & 2
            dimensional screens, EVEN interactive screens, little brains work up
            the intellectual human brain at the expense of the ability to relate
            in the warmth of mammalian eye-contact empathy. Society suffers
            already from the lack of exercise of the ability to care for our
            fellow mammals. The good news is: it is never too late to exercise
            the ability, by looking at our children, holding them, practicing
            caring about them & asking them to care. Hope that does nutshell
            justice to why Circle School is, in its TV-free way, practically
            Luddite compared with most programs out there in public schools.

            If Mr. Larry was about to get ugly at the notion of bringing the
            children out of the dirt to study gardening on the computer, bless
            him. Hope someone here can get that Holmgren article #24 open. We
            appreciate your comments, Mr. Bob. We readers are your students here
            in the Bergson Nature School Post. Where is Mr. Leland? All this
            ranting wanders right back to his stuff.
            Good night,
            Napi



            Robert Monie wrote:

            >
            > Hi Larry and Everybody,
            > Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this one;
            > please check again.
            > Children are not mechanistic and therefore may be ideally suited to
            > follow the natural farming way. Most children have no trouble just
            > marching after Fukuoka and throwing out the seedballs. Children are
            > featured throughout his latest book in Japanese, "Traveling with
            > Seedballs." Children take readily to any kind of approximately
            > natural agriculture, including biointensive, biodynamic, and
            > forest-farming.
            > I don't know of any "magic button" to link all the educational spots
            > that teach children about natural farming, and I doubt I can find
            > another "sister" school like the one in Thailand, but I do know two
            > more web sites about sustainable agriculture and kids. One is
            > concerned with Hidden Villa in the Los Altos Hills of California
            > (which might be a good place for a novice farmer to intern):
            > http://www.backdoorjobs.com/farming.html
            > and a web notice about a grant in Minnesota designed to give kids
            > some hands on experience in sustainable farming:
            > http://www.msmarket.org/news_mfc_children.htm
            > Many web sites are temperamental; I hope these come up.
            > If I were founding a school (perish the thought), I think I would
            > name it Bergson Nature School, after the French philosopher Henri
            > Bergson, who placed so much value on "intuition," a quality children
            > have in plenty. For grownups, though, we would need to teach a
            > course "engineering yourself, step by step into nature," which
            > Bergson would have found hilariously funny.
            > Bob Monie


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