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RE: Children's education

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  • Larry Haftl
    ... Hello, I ve tried to start this message six times so far and it always comes out ugly. So let me ease into it by suggesting you read an article by David
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 5, 2002
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      Robin, Maya, and Napi wrote:

      > If anyone else has a focus on
      > children's education, please tell us a story of how, until they are
      > trained to ignore, they observe.

      Hello,

      I've tried to start this message six times so far and it always comes
      out ugly. So let me ease into it by suggesting you read an article
      by David Holmgren about media technology and children's learning
      abilities. The link is http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.
      html#Header
      and the article is I think the 24th on the list. Its about Media
      Technology.

      I got that link from Bob Monie, though he didn't mention that article
      specifically. I'm trained in journalism with a special focus on video
      media, and Holmgren's observations and suupositions are right on
      the money.

      After you read the article, if you have any questions please ask.

      Larry Haftl
      larry@...
      http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
      http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
    • Robert Monie
      Hi Larry and Everybody, Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this one; please check again. Children are not mechanistic and therefore may
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 5, 2002
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        Hi Larry and Everybody,
        Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this one; please check again.
        Children are not mechanistic and therefore may be ideally suited to follow the natural farming way. Most children have no trouble just marching after Fukuoka and throwing out the seedballs. Children are featured throughout his latest book in Japanese, "Traveling with Seedballs." Children take readily to any kind of approximately natural agriculture, including biointensive, biodynamic, and forest-farming.
        I don't know of any "magic button" to link all the educational spots that teach children about natural farming, and I doubt I can find another "sister" school like the one in Thailand, but I do know two more web sites about sustainable agriculture and kids. One is concerned with Hidden Villa in the Los Altos Hills of California (which might be a good place for a novice farmer to intern):
        http://www.backdoorjobs.com/farming.html
        and a web notice about a grant in Minnesota designed to give kids some hands on experience in sustainable farming:
        http://www.msmarket.org/news_mfc_children.htm
        Many web sites are temperamental; I hope these come up.
        If I were founding a school (perish the thought), I think I would name it Bergson Nature School, after the French philosopher Henri Bergson, who placed so much value on "intuition," a quality children have in plenty. For grownups, though, we would need to teach a course "engineering yourself, step by step into nature," which Bergson would have found hilariously funny.
        Bob Monie
        Larry Haftl <larry@...> wrote:Robin, Maya, and Napi wrote:

        > If anyone else has a focus on
        > children's education, please tell us a story of how, until they are
        > trained to ignore, they observe.

        Hello,

        I've tried to start this message six times so far and it always comes
        out ugly. So let me ease into it by suggesting you read an article
        by David Holmgren about media technology and children's learning
        abilities. The link is http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.
        html#Header
        and the article is I think the 24th on the list. Its about Media
        Technology.

        I got that link from Bob Monie, though he didn't mention that article
        specifically. I'm trained in journalism with a special focus on video
        media, and Holmgren's observations and suupositions are right on
        the money.

        After you read the article, if you have any questions please ask.

        Larry Haftl
        larry@...
        http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
        http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org








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      • Larry Haftl
        ... one; please ... Hi Robert, I know what you mean about his URLs. Try this one. It seems to consistantly get through to his home page:
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 5, 2002
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          At Tuesday, 5 November 2002, you wrote:

          >Hi Larry and Everybody,
          >Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this
          one; please
          >check again.

          Hi Robert,

          I know what you mean about his URLs. Try this one. It seems to consistantly
          get through to his home page:

          http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren

          From there you can get to his articles by clicking on the "Articles
          CD" link.

          Larry Haftl
          larry@...
          http://larryhaftl.com/fukuoka
          http://FukuokaNaturalFarming.org
        • Justin .
          Regarding the trouble with getting this url to work: when I received this mail, the url is actually cut in two, with only the first part appearing in blue. Whn
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 6, 2002
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            Regarding the trouble with getting this url to work: when I received this
            mail, the url is actually cut in two, with only the first part appearing in
            blue. Whn I stuck it back together it worked. So try this, all on one line:
            http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.html#Header
            Justin.

            ----------------------------------------------------
            I've tried to start this message six times so far and it always comes
            out ugly. So let me ease into it by suggesting you read an article
            by David Holmgren about media technology and children's learning
            abilities. The link is http://www.spacountry.net.au/holmgren/CollWrit.
            html#Header
            and the article is I think the 24th on the list. Its about Media
            Technology.


            _________________________________________________________________
            STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
            http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
          • Robin, Maya, or Napi
            Good morning, Although I have not yet followed the instructions that you sent earlier for tracking down the Holmgren sites, I have saved the directions; it is
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 6, 2002
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              Good morning,

              Although I have not yet followed the instructions that you sent
              earlier for tracking down the Holmgren sites, I have saved the
              directions; it is clearly a worthwhile project. Larry has piqued
              curiosity even further.

              The two children's projects below are enriching in their detail &
              inspiring in their example. These links are more to us about brother
              schools (what we also call sister schools) where observing nature &
              garden projects is in the curriculum of both science & spirit, far
              different from planting seeds in styrofoam (!) cups for sale as a PTA
              fundraiser.

              The two sites below are a crisp example of how knowledge from this
              group spreads in ripples through the Circle School. Thank you,
              Robert, for another treat. As we have many times, our staff took
              turns with reading the article & being on duty. One might think that
              we have been lazy to have let so much important research fall into our
              laps, when we could have just typed into the search engine & gone
              looking ourselves. It may be pertinent, not to boast, but proudly, to
              say that, thin as we are spread, we do conduct early childhood
              research, produce conferences & conduct creditable course work,
              including on computer for continuing education requirements of our
              licensure.

              Circle School has an infant nursery, goes through pre-school &
              early elementary, supports homeschoolers of many grades, including
              middle & high school, trains community service interns, including high
              school job training, court ordered community service, corporate &
              student program community service, & for 7 years we have been a
              work-study placement site, for students from the local university who
              are majoring in early childhood education, developmental psychology,
              nursing, physical therapy, social work, art education, physical
              education, etc. So, we are the place where children from the families
              of our blue-collar, drug-blighted, two-hundred year old neighborhood,
              literally from birth through college & still when they become parents,
              has a connection to ongoing natural gardening, a vegetarian cafeteria,
              earth-conscious community projects, & membership in an organic foods
              cooperative. Eight children who have come here have parents who also
              were students here. The parents began as teen interns, volunteered,
              went on staff, now have their own families. Their children here are
              like the grandchildren who share their Ol' Na Na, & inherited the
              schoolhouse & grounds that their parents literally helped build. They
              look through the mirror to see the complex feelings of Fukuoka's
              family. Can we just make this place spiffier, like our normal
              friends' schools?

              Sorry that my reference to the magic button was abstruse. I meant
              to find out if there are is any possibility or intent of visitors to
              the Fukuoka site having a page to early childhood educators, with
              references culled from Traveling with Seedballs, & with links to
              children's projects based on his work, or more generally toward
              children's projects in sustainable gardening. Even if the visitor
              could take the direction from that page only to the Moo Baan Dek
              School in Thailand, & the links below, then the seeking educator would
              have been well served, prepared thus with materials to impress the
              principal or the PTA, that this basis for botany is far beyond the
              flower bed projects where children spoon-dig ready-grown trays of
              seedlings into rows. I would humbly submit a description, with photos
              if necessary or appropriate, of Circle School's Fukuoka-based project
              in the city park.

              The use of the word ugly in an earlier message had alerted me to
              the misunderstanding. In Wednesday morning's e-mail was a happier
              flurry of discussion. Now the readable blurb on the Holmgren article
              (which clicks to say open in Quicktime, & have tried a couple ways to
              no avail) confirms that Mr. Larry & Circle School do have the same
              usage of ugly.

              Holmgrens's Collected Articles says, "The following articles were all
              written concurrently with the manuscript of the new book (in press)
              Permaculture: Principles & Pathways To Sustainability and illustrate
              both classic and novel applications of permaculture thinking.

              Article Twenty Four. DO MEDIA TECHNOLOGIES SCRAMBLE YOUNG MINDS?

              In this previously unpublished article I speculate on how media
              technologies may also involve conceptual
              regressions and losses which undermine our ability to think
              holistically and adapt to an emerging low energy
              future. The ideas were stimulated by the experience of learning
              and teaching skills in reading landscape and
              have been refined through informal discussions on Permaculture
              Design Courses over a number of years. The
              bleak analysis it contains provides a counterbalance to my
              prevailing optimism about information and design
              creativity providing the lubricant for rapid evolution of low
              energy systems."

              Circle School teaching is based on interactive, perceptive,
              television-free, 3D, breathing, live & in person relationships. The
              education includes the children's observation of trial & error. The
              web study of the links to projects that I requested is for the
              educators, with juicy information, like what school districts have
              gotten grants. The link I requested is not to occupy our children,
              that is what the park & the seafloor garden are for.

              One of the highlights of a teacher or parent's eager study of how
              to do right by children, must be the discovery of the works of Joseph
              Chilton Pierce, a strong advocate of Waldorf, as Permaculture's
              founder Holmgren is. Hearing Pierce succinctly lecture on brain
              development - lizard stem as a finger, overlapped by mammal brain as a
              fist, overlapped by human brain as an open hand layered on top -
              parents & teachers are firmly warned about the dangers of development
              out of sequence. By introducing the 'reading' of symbols & 2
              dimensional screens, EVEN interactive screens, little brains work up
              the intellectual human brain at the expense of the ability to relate
              in the warmth of mammalian eye-contact empathy. Society suffers
              already from the lack of exercise of the ability to care for our
              fellow mammals. The good news is: it is never too late to exercise
              the ability, by looking at our children, holding them, practicing
              caring about them & asking them to care. Hope that does nutshell
              justice to why Circle School is, in its TV-free way, practically
              Luddite compared with most programs out there in public schools.

              If Mr. Larry was about to get ugly at the notion of bringing the
              children out of the dirt to study gardening on the computer, bless
              him. Hope someone here can get that Holmgren article #24 open. We
              appreciate your comments, Mr. Bob. We readers are your students here
              in the Bergson Nature School Post. Where is Mr. Leland? All this
              ranting wanders right back to his stuff.
              Good night,
              Napi



              Robert Monie wrote:

              >
              > Hi Larry and Everybody,
              > Those Holmgren sites are hard to pull up--no response from this one;
              > please check again.
              > Children are not mechanistic and therefore may be ideally suited to
              > follow the natural farming way. Most children have no trouble just
              > marching after Fukuoka and throwing out the seedballs. Children are
              > featured throughout his latest book in Japanese, "Traveling with
              > Seedballs." Children take readily to any kind of approximately
              > natural agriculture, including biointensive, biodynamic, and
              > forest-farming.
              > I don't know of any "magic button" to link all the educational spots
              > that teach children about natural farming, and I doubt I can find
              > another "sister" school like the one in Thailand, but I do know two
              > more web sites about sustainable agriculture and kids. One is
              > concerned with Hidden Villa in the Los Altos Hills of California
              > (which might be a good place for a novice farmer to intern):
              > http://www.backdoorjobs.com/farming.html
              > and a web notice about a grant in Minnesota designed to give kids
              > some hands on experience in sustainable farming:
              > http://www.msmarket.org/news_mfc_children.htm
              > Many web sites are temperamental; I hope these come up.
              > If I were founding a school (perish the thought), I think I would
              > name it Bergson Nature School, after the French philosopher Henri
              > Bergson, who placed so much value on "intuition," a quality children
              > have in plenty. For grownups, though, we would need to teach a
              > course "engineering yourself, step by step into nature," which
              > Bergson would have found hilariously funny.
              > Bob Monie


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