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Re: [fukuoka_farming] 樋浦 誠 HIURA Makoto , IROHA Revolutionary Verses,... -Re: Continu ous learning process with more questions+clar ifications.

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  • Nandan Palaparambil
    Hi Steve, We used to get lot of valuable inputs from people who does constant research in natural farming. It is true that there used to be different view
    Message 1 of 46 , Nov 23, 2011
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      Hi Steve,

      We used to get lot of valuable inputs from people who does constant research in natural farming. It is true that there used to be different view points, especially when there are many people with strong opinions,

      Thanks Steve for valuable inputs that you are getting more and more from the land. To the extend possible I don't want to use any external inputs rather use methods suggested by Fukuoka San and reach better fertility.



      From: Steve Grannis <grannis04@...>
      To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:45 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 樋浦 誠 HIURA Makoto, IROHA Revolutionary Verses,... -Re: Continuous learning process with more questions+clarifications.


                 Yes, I remember the  Dieter Brand exchanges and I remember they were very charged. Dieter Brand was up against it because of the high desert or low rainfall area that he was working with. We can never know all of the variables that go into farming any particular piece of land. we have to honor those that try.
                  I believe that it is our inter action with the land that promotes it's vitality. Our foot steps ripple through the earth and create change. Each crop or plant we work with will have an effect on the land. I have found that restoring previously farmed land to natural methods is slower and more difficult than transforming existing ecosystems to food production.
                  My work is in a temperate region with fifty or more inches of rain per year. My immediate area is coastal and is considered a temperate rainforest. There are many species of moss, lichen and fungi that live among the forest. I grow a wide variety of crops and fruits. Every year I experiment and constantly refer back to Fukuoka. Each year there is more and more production. The yields on some crops are equal to organic when everything works. The failures are becoming less. 
                  I don't know if I qualify as an old timer but I will respond to topics I feel I have experience with. I can't comment on most of the topics from India or the Philipines, etc. because I don,t have any experience with the crops although I thoroughly enjoy learning. As you have read from others you may need to gather organic materials from areas near you in order to boost the biology in your soil.
                  Steve G.

      From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
      To: "fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com" <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:34 AM
      Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] 樋浦 誠 HIURA Makoto, IROHA Revolutionary Verses,... -Re: Continuous learning process with more questions+clarifications.


      Personally I haven't followed everything Fukuoka san mentioned in his book and still reading continues !!!. Even I was doing just cutting and mulching of grass and other plant remains from the farm. But fertility is not improving that quickly, but I haven't followed many things Fukuoka san has talked about, so can not complain. But other people will think that I am following Fukuoka's natural farming and not getting good results, while truth is that I am not following it religiously for various reasons - didn't take it that seriously, not making a living from farming so not so focussed etc..

      This year I have tried sun-hemp and velvet beans, but couldn't establish it throughout the orchard yet, that is a big task for me. So I am looking for some reseeding cover crops like Moth beans, alfalfa etc..

      I remember one discussion much earlier where Dieter Brand was mentioning that his land didn't improve much after leaving it (without grazing) to completely nature's way, for years (don't remember exact number of years). The point here is that for nature to improve the fertility it may take long time, that is where man has to introduce different species of plants, without upsetting nature's way.

      There are lot of old timers in this list who used to share their experiences..but not seen now a days



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    • Jason Stewart
      Not a religion at all Beyond religion, and all religions are included (of course). And there are so many different languages ways of evoking. Ineffable ways
      Message 46 of 46 , Dec 14, 2011
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        "Not a religion at all"
        Beyond religion, and all religions are included (of course). And there are so many different languages' ways of evoking. Ineffable ways of evoking, too. ...

        Recently this came out on the same (i must read it and 'try out' its contents, have read some before of this kind, but not from such high calibre as HH The Dalai Lama).

        Beyond Religion: Ethics for a Whole World

        By H.H. the Dalai Lama

        -> http://dalailama.com/book-beyond-ethics

        Late Fukuoka Masanobu sensei writing originally he got published in 1984,
        refer to previous quotation of it:

        -> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fukuoka_farming/message/10882

        --Below i've corrected it, for its Yahoo--limitations caused formatting errors, dash character Yahoo rejection errors and updated the citations. Hoping it comes out well, it is important words, words making key part of the solutions, important compassion, important humility, important practise, ... !

        best 無為自然 [true nature] with all of you, all life,

        Mr. Jason Stewart
        Oz (deliberate vernacular for Australia---the word's etymology is a bit problematical!)

        G'day friend Yugandhar and all,

        I don't have a scanner but i do have fingers! no scanner at all nor ready access to one with others at the moment. So here goes:

        福岡正信 Fukuoka Masanobu
        1984 (Japanese)
        自然に還る (shizen ni kaeru)
        Published by 春秋社 (Shunjūsha):

        1984 Aug.
        vii 362p 17p of plates ill. 20cm
        out of print ISBN 978-4-393-74104-7;

        Enlarged and revised edition
        1993 April
        out of print ISBN 978-4-393-74114-6;

        New enlarged edition
        2004 Sept.
        xvi 488p 8p of plates ill. 18.8x13cm
        in print ISBN 978-4-393-74146-7.

        English translation
        The Road Back to Nature – Regaining the Paradise Lost
        translated by Frederic P. Metreaud
        Japan Publications
        first edition 1987 Aug.
        377p 8p of plates
        out of print ISBN 978-0-87040-673-7.

        "Copyright 1987 by Masanobu Fukuoka."

        "Understanding that goes only three quarters of the way" end of 275 - 276
        Take the Christian cross (♱), the Buddhist sign (卍), and the shinto symbol (土), which represents a cross planted in the earth. These and many other religious marks conceived by man have something in common. I believe that they all try to express the effacement of the world of relativity (relative thought) by doing away with right and left, up and down.
        What sense do the words of Christ take on for people climbing the mountain from below? When they see a cross before the summit, the mark on the cross and the doctrine for which it stands appear to be their final destination. Shinto believers who climb part way up the mountain will see a Shinto gateway and think this to be the highest deity. Those climbing from the south will happen upon a Buddhist temple and think that the Buddha is present within the temple---as if the Buddha dwelled in Buddhist scriptures.
        This is as far as we can go in anything we do---sensing, arguing, speaking. The summit is beyond our reach; we can never go more than three-quarters, or perhaps nine-tenths, of the way to the top. That is the limit to what we can understand. If we could stand on the summit, we would be able to see God, but although God cannot be seen on the way up the mountain, we come under the impression that we do indeed understand God, and even dare to speak of Him. But God lies in the sky (absolute world) beyond the summit (relative world). He cannot be described or depicted through writing, speech, or graphic images.
        In America, I met some people of the Jewish faith. I spoke all night with them about the religion and thought of the Jews. I found that they have truly wonderful ideas, but in the end they are extremely rigid and unyielding. In our discussions of Christianity and Shinto, we agreed nine-tenths of the way up the mountain, but our views differed when it came to the summit itself. If the sky above as seen from the summit may be assumed to be the same, then no matter where one climbs from the view should be identical at that point. The sky above the summit belongs to no one.
        This is the same as saying that the sky over the West and [end p 276][next start p 277]
        the East, over the Japanese and the Americans, is the same everywhere. Although everything should come together at that point of emptiness of void, because we only go eighty or ninety percent of the way, we are unable to do anything but imagine what the view is like from the summit. And that is why everything falls apart. We are unable to merge the concepts of God and bring the religions of the world into a single common unity.

        [larger font - bold - minor heading - ]
        There Is Only One God-----------------------------------------------

        To arrive at the conviction that all these gods are one, we should begin by realizing that while we may be able to look up at a portion of Christ's face from where we stand at the base of the mountain, we are not in a position to know the God experienced personally by Christ. One has to start by knowing one's own position; where one is right now. No matter how much you study the teachings of Gautama, you may come to know something of Gautama, but you cannot perceive the Buddha that he saw. Even assuming that Jesus and Gautama indeed preached God, because the words they used only deepened the confusion of the human mind, these were of no help in aiding others to understand. Their teachings served only to point out just how erroneous and misguided are the knowledge and actions of man and, in so doing, to crack the veneer of man's confidence and force him to reflect. Even a saint is unable to lucidly describe God directly with words and bring people face to face with Him. We are only able to guess at the vision of God grasped by Jesus and Gautama through the words these prophets spoke. If people were profoundly aware of the fact that what they know is but a shadow, a false image of God, then they would be unable to speak and act as if only their God were absolute---the highest God. Only Jesus is able to say, "There is only one, absolute God." Only he who himself has seen God can with full confidence say, as did Gautama, "I am my own Lord
        "throughout heaven and earth."

        Please some else with an original copy proof read this to check my typing, please.

        Auspicious words for me typing here;

        Furthermore, i commend to you as really good:

        His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama's (of Tibet)
        "Towards the True Kinship of Faiths: How the world's religions can come together."
        Published in Great Britain by Abacus.
        Published in the United States of America by Doubleday Religion.
        See here: -> http://www.dalailama.com/biography/books


        On 23/11/2011, at 4:33 PM, Jason Stewart wrote [emphasis added later, today. A correction added later, today. Additions in parentheses added later, today]:

        > Late sensei Fukuoka Masanobu's nature farming dharma---living true in nature, and philosophy---is the solution (with more than his family farm's one worked example, Raju Titus's, Bhaskar Save's, Akinori Kimura's, ...) ;
        > the solution to an planet--wide--spread problem;
        > planet--wide--spread across our earth but not absolutely every part and place, (still nature's jungles, forests, woodlands, grasslands,... with people living in them 100% sustainably) thank God.
        > A planet--sized monster problem's solution. It is not a religion at all. Diamond, Jared defines this problem which late sensei Fukuoka Masanobu has comprehensively solved, thus:
        > "
        > .
        > People are also guided by seemingly arbitrary cultural preferences, such as considering fish either delicacies or taboo. Finally, their priorities are heavily influenced by the relative values they attach to different lifestyles˜just as we can see today. For instance, in the 19th-century U.S. West, the cattlemen, sheepmen, and farmers all despised each other. Similarly, throughout human history farmers have tended to despise hunter-gatherers as primitive, hunter-gatherers have despised farmers as ignorant, and herders have despised both.
        > .
        > "

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